In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
That only applies to (some) retro-fits and, even then, routing in a
neutral is not impossible. Why isn't such an indicator light-switch
available for new builds where the electrician would know in advance
that a neutral is required? Is it so unusual to have the switch on the
outside of the understairs loo?

Easy enough to make one using grid switch components. Plus the fact it
would have to be a posh new build to think of something so obvious and use
a mm more of wire than they can get away with. ;-)

In my own house I ran the switch feed in triple and earth in most rooms.
Handy if you decide you want floor outlet lamps switched from the same
place.

--
*Why do the two "sanction"s (noun and verb) mean opposites?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

Again, its a LED power on indicator, do we care? If so, add another
couple of diodes to the reverse path and a second LED mounted close the
the first; or use a dual chip LED that looks like one indicator but has
two devices internally...


Did anyone say "bridge rectifier"? 4 diodes (or one small package, 4
leads), 1 led and 100Hz flicker, which I'm fairly sure would not be
perceivable to most people.

Dunno - presumably ordinary fluorescent would have 100 Hz flicker, and
plenty complain about those.

--
*The statement above is false

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:09:08 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Phil Addison wrote:
On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 19:49:18 +0100, Phil Addison
wrote:

In the end I opted for simplicity and used the Maplin panel mount red
neon (BK52) which cost 99p, and took the return to earth; it works fine.


Thanks for all the input and neat LED ideas, but its hard to beat the
neon for simplicity, cost, very low current draw, no visible flicker
(100Hz), all round visibility, and ready availability in panel mount.

... and today we realised it also provides a clear 'engaged' indication.
OK, the LED schemes would do that as well, but the PIR's would not.

If you had the PIR *and* your switch it would... the light would only
come on when both switches are "on".

That's true, and being sat there waving your arms around to keep the
light on you could dispense with the fan :O)

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:10:35 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Phil Addison wrote:
On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 04:36:03 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Phil Addison wrote:

Must say I was surprised to find the big names
don't make an SP lighting circuit varient of the 20A DP SW+neon.
The problem being the typical lack of neutral - hence nowhere to put it!

That only applies to (some) retro-fits and, even then, routing in a
neutral is not impossible. Why isn't such an indicator light-switch
available for new builds where the electrician would know in advance
that a neutral is required? Is it so unusual to have the switch on the
outside of the understairs loo?

Probably not, but is not the switch being "down" enough indication
anyway?

Nope, already tried that solition and it doesn't work! see OP "We have a
loo under the stairs with the light switch on the outside and it
sometimes gets left switched on so the fan remains running (as well as
the light being on)." :=/

Phil

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 16:45:57 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
That only applies to (some) retro-fits and, even then, routing in a
neutral is not impossible. Why isn't such an indicator light-switch
available for new builds where the electrician would know in advance
that a neutral is required? Is it so unusual to have the switch on the
outside of the understairs loo?

Easy enough to make one using grid switch components.

We've done the 'making' bit, I'm on to the 'why don't they' bit now )

Plus the fact it
would have to be a posh new build to think of something so obvious and use
a mm more of wire than they can get away with. ;-)

LOL


Phil

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 09:58:11 -0700 (PDT), Owain
wrote:

On 7 Sep, 16:15, Phil Addison wrote:
... and today we realised it also provides a clear 'engaged' indication.

If you've got a fan with a run-on timer you could extend a second neon
from that. Then you'd have separate indicators for 'engaged' and
'proceed with caution'

But 'engaged' and 'proceed with caution' showing together would be
inconvenient.

Phil

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:03:14 +0100, The Wanderer
wrote:

All I did was drill and fit a small neon indicator in one corner of
the switch plate, wired switch terminal to earth on the box. Alright, I
know it was back in the days when rcds weren't commonly used, but taking a
quick look at the Farnell web site, many of their 230v leds have a forward
current of about 3mA so shouldn't present too much of a problem.

Keep up at the back!
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/3...861success.jpg

Phil

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:02:59 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Phil Addison wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:10:35 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Phil Addison wrote:
On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 04:36:03 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Phil Addison wrote:

Must say I was surprised to find the big names
don't make an SP lighting circuit varient of the 20A DP SW+neon.
The problem being the typical lack of neutral - hence nowhere to put it!
That only applies to (some) retro-fits and, even then, routing in a
neutral is not impossible. Why isn't such an indicator light-switch
available for new builds where the electrician would know in advance
that a neutral is required? Is it so unusual to have the switch on the
outside of the understairs loo?
Probably not, but is not the switch being "down" enough indication
anyway?

Nope, already tried that solition and it doesn't work! see OP "We have a
loo under the stairs with the light switch on the outside and it
sometimes gets left switched on so the fan remains running (as well as
the light being on)." :=/

No, I meant was the switch being down not enough of an occupancy
indication rather than a warning the light was left on. Obviously it
would leave scope for sitting there with your legs crossed waiting for
the emergence of the phantom occupant, which could take a while.

OIC. In that case no, because we all knew it sometimes got left on so
standard practice was to shout "anyone in there?" in that case. With the
red neon grabbing attention, it is now unlikely to mean anything other
than 'occupied'. Of course there may still be the odd cry of "OI!!!"
from within when a thoughtful passer-by turns it off. However, if in
doubt its simple enough to just try the handle; we do have one of those
feeble lockable handles.

An "Occupied" indicator was never my criteria, "Occupancy" (not the same
thing) was raised by the PIR fans, I just pointed out that the
indication is a bonus with the red neon.

Phil