I've recently rewired my house, so when the time-delayed RCD, which
acts as my main switch started tripping, I assumed I had made a stupid
mistake somewhere. My installation is TT, all circuits (apart from
distribution circuits) are on RCBOs.

I noticed that the tripping occurred at about 8am or about 8pm on
weekdays. At weekends it occurred at other times. This lead me to
suspect an outside cause.

To cut a long story short, my next door neighbour is in the habit of
switching her electric shower on/off via the isolation pull switch.
When she does this, my RCD trips. When she turns the shower on/off
normally, it doesn't trip.

Her shower circuit is 2.5mm cable and the insulation looks a bit
perished and frayed in the pull-switch. It's also on a 40A breaker!
The pull switch is in "zone 1" - I kid you not! The cord is reachable
from outside the shower enclosure and quite convenient to use.

Her house appears to be protected by RCDs - a fairly ancient type, but
they don't trip.

She also promises to control her shower in the normal way until we get
to the bottom of this...

Any ideas?

T

"Recyclist" wrote in message
...
I've recently rewired my house, so when the time-delayed RCD, which
acts as my main switch started tripping, I assumed I had made a stupid
mistake somewhere. My installation is TT, all circuits (apart from
distribution circuits) are on RCBOs.

I noticed that the tripping occurred at about 8am or about 8pm on
weekdays. At weekends it occurred at other times. This lead me to
suspect an outside cause.

To cut a long story short, my next door neighbour is in the habit of
switching her electric shower on/off via the isolation pull switch.
When she does this, my RCD trips. When she turns the shower on/off
normally, it doesn't trip.

Her shower circuit is 2.5mm cable and the insulation looks a bit
perished and frayed in the pull-switch. It's also on a 40A breaker!
The pull switch is in "zone 1" - I kid you not! The cord is reachable
from outside the shower enclosure and quite convenient to use.

Her house appears to be protected by RCDs - a fairly ancient type, but
they don't trip.

She also promises to control her shower in the normal way until we get
to the bottom of this...

Any ideas?

T

A bit weird that but IINAE
Does the normal control have more than one heat setting, and do you
have to step through them to reach the off position?

I presume when your RCD tripped she swiched off at the pull-cord
with the shower still going at full power.


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 3 Sep, 00:21, "Graham." wrote:
"Recyclist" wrote in message

...



I've recently rewired my house, so when the time-delayed RCD, which
acts as my main switch started tripping, I assumed I had made a stupid
mistake somewhere. My installation is TT, all circuits (apart from
distribution circuits) are on RCBOs.

I noticed that the tripping occurred at about 8am or about 8pm on
weekdays. At weekends it occurred at other times. This lead me to
suspect an outside cause.

To cut a long story short, my next door neighbour is in the habit of
switching her electric shower on/off via the isolation pull switch.
When she does this, my RCD trips. When she turns the shower on/off
normally, it doesn't trip.

Her shower circuit is 2.5mm cable and the insulation looks a bit
perished and frayed in the pull-switch. It's also on a 40A breaker!
The pull switch is in "zone 1" - I kid you not! The cord is reachable
from outside the shower enclosure and quite convenient to use.

Her house appears to be protected by RCDs - a fairly ancient type, but
they don't trip.

She also promises to control her shower in the normal way until we get
to the bottom of this...

Any ideas?

T

A bit weird that but IINAE
Does the normal control have more than one heat setting, and do you
have to step through them to reach the off position?

I presume when your RCD tripped she swiched off at the pull-cord
with the shower still going at full power.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

My RCD trips when she uses the pull cord to switch her shower off or
on.

Her shower probably has those steps to get to full power, but I didn't
look.

T

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:31:23 -0700 (PDT), Recyclist wrote:

Her shower probably has those steps to get to full power, but I didn't
look.

Distracted by something else in the shower at the time I take it?

It is a bit weird and I suspect you need to look hard at how the
supplies and earths etc are derived in both of your places. You may
need to involve your electricity supplier. Note: The company that
maintains the pysical infrastructure, not the company who you pay for
electricity.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Recyclist wrote:
I've recently rewired my house, so when the time-delayed RCD, which
acts as my main switch started tripping, I assumed I had made a stupid
mistake somewhere. My installation is TT, all circuits (apart from
distribution circuits) are on RCBOs.

I noticed that the tripping occurred at about 8am or about 8pm on
weekdays. At weekends it occurred at other times. This lead me to
suspect an outside cause.

To cut a long story short, my next door neighbour is in the habit of
switching her electric shower on/off via the isolation pull switch.
When she does this, my RCD trips. When she turns the shower on/off
normally, it doesn't trip.

Her shower circuit is 2.5mm cable and the insulation looks a bit
perished and frayed in the pull-switch. It's also on a 40A breaker!
The pull switch is in "zone 1" - I kid you not! The cord is reachable
from outside the shower enclosure and quite convenient to use.

Her house appears to be protected by RCDs - a fairly ancient type, but
they don't trip.

She also promises to control her shower in the normal way until we get
to the bottom of this...

Any ideas?

T

Neutral earth short or too many capacitors in the RF filters. Both will,
under a smart step in voltage, divert enough to ground to trip.

On 3 Sep, 00:06, Recyclist wrote:
I've recently rewired my house, so when the time-delayed RCD, which
acts as my main switch started tripping, I assumed I had made a stupid
mistake somewhere. My installation is TT, all circuits (apart from
distribution circuits) are on RCBOs.

I noticed that the tripping occurred at about 8am or about 8pm on
weekdays. At weekends it occurred at other times. This lead me to
suspect an outside cause.

To cut a long story short, my next door neighbour is in the habit of
switching her electric shower on/off via the isolation pull switch.
When she does this, my RCD trips. When she turns the shower on/off
normally, it doesn't trip.

Her shower circuit is 2.5mm cable and the insulation looks a bit
perished and frayed in the pull-switch. It's also on a 40A breaker!
The pull switch is in "zone 1" - I kid you not! The cord is reachable
from outside the shower enclosure and quite convenient to use.

Her house appears to be protected by RCDs - a fairly ancient type, but
they don't trip.

She also promises to control her shower in the normal way until we get
to the bottom of this...

Any ideas?

T

A few questions-

Is your neighbours shower earthed correctly? This may require
inspection, earth continuity testing and an earth loop impedance test
at the shower unit.

Where is your Earth electrode rod in relation to your neighbours and
is it in a suitable enclosure to avoid ground surface potential
gradients? A time delayed RCD should not trip before a general purpose
one but have you carried out tripping time tests of all your RCBOs and
the RCD? (I hope you fully inspected and tested your rewired
installation prior to energising it?)

You say the shower next door is fed by 2.5mm cable with a 40A breaker,
what is the power rating of the shower and is your fire insurance
premium paid up to date? (Hint 6mm is the smallest cable normally
expected to be used for electric showers with 10mm or 16mm being used
for higher power ratings)

Sudden high load switching can create surges which may be exacerbated
by poor connections in the supply system. This is outside your control
and will involve the network suppliers equipment should it come to
that.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:38:06 -0700 (PDT), Recyclist wrote:

Today, the RCD won't trip. However when my neighbour switches on her
shower, the connection at the overhead wire crackles and there are
some sparks. It also crackles a bit in the wind.

Oh boy, nothing like with holding information... The supply wiring
should not do that. There is a supply fault. Report it to your REC to
come and fix it and check that the supllies to you and your neighbour
are in order.

Once they have see if this whole house RCD tripping persists.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:38:06 -0700 (PDT), Recyclist wrote:

Today, the RCD won't trip. However when my neighbour switches on her
shower, the connection at the overhead wire crackles and there are
some sparks. It also crackles a bit in the wind.

Oh boy, nothing like with holding information... The supply wiring

Or even without holding information!

It's "withholding" for heavens sake, all one word. As two separate
words "with holding" it can (and does) change the meaning completely.

should not do that. There is a supply fault. Report it to your REC to
come and fix it and check that the supllies to you and your neighbour
are in order.

Once they have see if this whole house RCD tripping persists.


--
Chris Green

Recyclist coughed up some electrons that declared:


It looked very close to catching fire, but now we are all sitting in
the dark it appears to have calmed down. Central Networks are on
their way.

The way you worded that could induce an AOL style "LoL" moment!

But you are in the dark. With no coffee. And presumably no TV. So I feel
your pain.

BTW how are you posting this - UPS + laptop?

Hope they fix it soon

Tim

On 3 Sep, 21:46, Tim S wrote:
Recyclist coughed up some electrons that declared:

It looked very close to catching fire, but now we are all sitting in
the dark it appears to have calmed down. *Central Networks are on
their way.

The way you worded that could induce an AOL style "LoL" moment!

But you are in the dark. With no coffee. And presumably no TV. So I feel
your pain.

BTW how are you posting this - UPS + laptop?
,
Hope they fix it soon

Tim

I don't have a TV, and can boil a kettle on my (wood burning) Rayburn
if I want a coffee. I have instructed the neighbours to turn off their
mains, so they are sitting in the dark. This allows me to keep my
laptop running even through the dodgy connection ;-)

T

wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:38:06 -0700 (PDT), Recyclist wrote:

Today, the RCD won't trip. However when my neighbour switches on her
shower, the connection at the overhead wire crackles and there are
some sparks. It also crackles a bit in the wind.

Oh boy, nothing like with holding information... The supply wiring

Or even without holding information!

It's "withholding" for heavens sake, all one word. As two separate
words "with holding" it can (and does) change the meaning completely.


Pedant. I understood what was intended and appreciated the typo. Have you
not made similar unintended gaffs?

Recyclist wrote:

She also promises to control her shower in the normal way until we get
to the bottom of this...

That's possibly not a bad idea anyway. The electric shower's I've used
have a sort of "cotnroleld shutdown" - they keep the water running for a
moment after killing the power, and I think this is to cushion the
temperature change in the element. You might get a heat spike if the
inside is still heating and the water stops running. Which could easily
shorten the life of the shower - and they aren't the most reliable devices.

Thinks. It's now nearly 20:00 on the 4th - Recyclist was online by this
time yesterday - any news?

Andy

On 4 Sep, 19:54, Andy Champ wrote:
Recyclist wrote:

She also promises to control her shower in the normal way until we get
to the bottom of this...

That's possibly not a bad idea anyway. *The electric shower's I've used
have a sort of "cotnroleld shutdown" - they keep the water running for a
moment after killing the power, and I think this is to cushion the
temperature change in the element. *You might get a heat spike if the
inside is still heating and the water stops running. *Which could easily
shorten the life of the shower - and they aren't the most reliable devices.

Thinks. *It's now nearly 20:00 on the 4th - Recyclist was online by this
time yesterday - any news?

Andy

Thanks for everyone's help and advice. My RCD hasn't tripped since the
overhead line stopped sparking, and my neighbour has gone on holiday.

Nevertheless, I took the point made by John Rumm that there is
probably a small current leak somewhere, priming my RCD to trip at the
slightest disturbance. I tracked it down to a secondary consumer unit.
Cramming RCBOs into average CUs makes testing extremely difficult, so
I had to strip it out to test the circuits etc. I didn't find the
fault, but after replacing the RCBOs and trimming the wires, the fault
has gone!

T

Andy

Thanks for everyone's help and advice. My RCD hasn't tripped since the
overhead line stopped sparking

Eh?, has the leccy board been called in to look at that?..

--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer coughed up some electrons that declared:


Andy

Thanks for everyone's help and advice. My RCD hasn't tripped since the
overhead line stopped sparking

Eh?, has the leccy board been called in to look at that?..

IIRC he did say the REC were on the way a couple of days back

On 8 Sep, 12:17, Tim S wrote:
tony sayer coughed up some electrons that declared:



Andy

Thanks for everyone's help and advice. My RCD hasn't tripped since the
overhead line stopped sparking

Eh?, has the leccy board been called in to look at that?..

IIRC he did say the REC were on the way a couple of days back

The speed of response by Central Networks could not have been better!

T

Recyclist wrote:
On 8 Sep, 12:17, Tim S wrote:
tony sayer coughed up some electrons that declared:



Andy
Thanks for everyone's help and advice. My RCD hasn't tripped since the
overhead line stopped sparking
Eh?, has the leccy board been called in to look at that?..
IIRC he did say the REC were on the way a couple of days back

The speed of response by Central Networks could not have been better!

T
Once when I spotted a fizzing insulator and reported it, they were over
the next day to fix.

I reported a water leak on IIRC Friday, they were over to inspect in 24
hours, and I noted yesterday an earth upheaval and no sign of a leak..


Thse things cost THEM money, and if left, even more money.

They are incented to fix..

In article , Tim S
scribeth thus
tony sayer coughed up some electrons that declared:


Andy

Thanks for everyone's help and advice. My RCD hasn't tripped since the
overhead line stopped sparking

Eh?, has the leccy board been called in to look at that?..

IIRC he did say the REC were on the way a couple of days back

Mea cupla old age creeping up on moi;!..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , John
Rumm scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
In article
s.com, Recyclist scribeth thus

They fixed the overhead line the evening it started throwing sparks!
I've got a key for next door, so I could check it myself, but I'm
confident that my installation is OK. I dispensed with the time delay
RCDs, and everything is now off RCBOs, including distribution
circuits.

T

I should hope you have some RCD protection somewhere!..

He does, in every RCBO!

Humm. Suppose he could have meant everything is disconnected from i.e.
"off" the RCBO's ....


--
Tony Sayer

On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:36:57 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

They fixed the overhead line the evening it started throwing
sparks!

I've found our REC to be pretty responsive. Reported over voltage
after I go the UPS and it instantly went into "voltage trim mode",
they were at the door in 2 hrs confirmed the overvoltage and changed
the tapping on our transformer within a couple of days. Nice side
effect was that tungsten bulbs started to last more than 3 months...

I dispensed with the time delay RCDs, and everything is now off
RCBOs,
including distribution circuits.

I should hope you have some RCD protection somewhere!..

er RCBO's do that. B-)

Though I thought the OP said he was on a TT supply but doesn't that
type of supply require a time delayed 100mA "whole house" RCD? To
ensure fast enough disconnection or indeed any disconnection in the
event of a fault. TT supplies possibly having to high an earth loop
impedance to trip pure overload devices reliably.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:50:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Once when I spotted a fizzing insulator and reported it, they were over
the next day to fix.

The auto recloser locked out a while back, a couple of hours later
the power would come back for a second or so then drop out again,
this happened a few times. SWMBO'd was out side when one of these
short power bursts occured and reported arcing from one of the
insulators. Rang the REC told 'em, the engineers where at the door in
10mins. They had more or less tracked it down by then but I was
impressed that the CS people could get a message to the engineers on
the ground quite so effectively.

I reported a water leak on IIRC Friday, they were over to inspect in 24
hours, and I noted yesterday an earth upheaval and no sign of a leak..

Had and air vent valve fail on the 6" main at the top of the hill
near here. Reasonable volume of water flowing across the road,
creating quite a driving hazard. Local farmer reported it about 1000,
nothing had happened by 1500 so I reported it again, was told they be
along "in a day or two" to have a look. Said there was a road hazard,
didn't seem to make much difference. Local police stopped to have a
look, I went out and had a chat they had reported it and the traffic
hazard about 1200...

Man in waterboard van finally appeared about 1700 and was very coy
about what he did to fix it. I suspect it had just jammed open and
was "hit with a hammer" as there where no bits lying about in the
back of his van.

OK there was a reasonable response in the end but they fact that no
one reporting the leak was told "oh yes we know already but thank you
all the same" or a sensible "we should be there [ later today |
tomorow ]" rather than "someone will be along some time to have look"
was disappointing.

--
Cheers
Dave.