If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is plugged
into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the fuse in
its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c) both?

Is there a general rule of thumb?

The MCB isn't tripping.

(trying to fault find daughters washing machine over the phone, can't get
round till tomorrow pm).


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 01/09/2009 21:02, The Medway Handyman wrote:
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is plugged
into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the fuse in
its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c) both?

Is there a general rule of thumb?

The MCB isn't tripping.

(trying to fault find daughters washing machine over the phone, can't get
round till tomorrow pm).


The most inaccessible will blow - Everytime!

Silly question - I assume the fuses fitted in the plug and the extension
lead the same rating?

The current drawn through them is the same so the 'weakest' of the two
will blow.

"Peter Watson" wrote in message
...
On 01/09/2009 21:02, The Medway Handyman wrote:
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is
plugged
into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the fuse in
its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c) both?

Is there a general rule of thumb?

The MCB isn't tripping.

(trying to fault find daughters washing machine over the phone, can't get
round till tomorrow pm).


The most inaccessible will blow - Everytime!

Silly question - I assume the fuses fitted in the plug and the extension
lead the same rating?

The current drawn through them is the same so the 'weakest' of the two
will blow.

Are you sure the extension lead can handle the current? Is it unwound fully?
If partly coiled it will get dangerously hot. Do you know the current rating
of the washer?

The Medway Handyman presented the following explanation :
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is plugged
into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the fuse in its
own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c) both?

If both are the same value of fuse, either or both could blow -
assuming the washing machine is the only load on the extension.
Normally an MCB would be the first to trip.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is plugged
into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the fuse in
its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c) both?

Is there a general rule of thumb?

The MCB isn't tripping.

(trying to fault find daughters washing machine over the phone, can't get
round till tomorrow pm).

Weeeeeeeellllll....

You would think that the appliance fuse (given that they were the same
type of fuse with the same rating) would go first, but there is no hard
and fast rule that can be applied


I've had cases where e.g. a 2A fuse in a circuit has survived when a
4A one (of the same type) has wimped out first

Fuses can be complicated little beasties - they blow according to I^2xt
(current squared x time it is applied for) in an ideal world

--
geoff

Peter Watson wrote:
On 01/09/2009 21:02, The Medway Handyman wrote:
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is
plugged into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow
(a) the fuse in its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or
(c) both? Is there a general rule of thumb?

The MCB isn't tripping.

(trying to fault find daughters washing machine over the phone,
can't get round till tomorrow pm).


The most inaccessible will blow - Everytime!

Silly question - I assume the fuses fitted in the plug and the
extension lead the same rating?

The current drawn through them is the same so the 'weakest' of the two
will blow.

Alas all 13 amp :-(


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

John wrote:
"Peter Watson" wrote in message
...
On 01/09/2009 21:02, The Medway Handyman wrote:
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is
plugged
into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the
fuse in its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c)
both? Is there a general rule of thumb?

The MCB isn't tripping.

(trying to fault find daughters washing machine over the phone,
can't get round till tomorrow pm).


The most inaccessible will blow - Everytime!

Silly question - I assume the fuses fitted in the plug and the
extension lead the same rating?

The current drawn through them is the same so the 'weakest' of the
two will blow.

Are you sure the extension lead can handle the current? Is it unwound
fully? If partly coiled it will get dangerously hot. Do you know the
current rating of the washer?

Lead is only a 1 metre 3 gang, fully 'unwound' - not that you could wind it
really.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Medway Handyman presented the following explanation :
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is
plugged into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow
(a) the fuse in its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or
(c) both?

If both are the same value of fuse, either or both could blow -
assuming the washing machine is the only load on the extension.
Normally an MCB would be the first to trip.

Tumble drier & small dishwasher are on the same lead, their fuses seem to
survive.

Latest reports (via phone) are that there is a 'flash & bang' from
'somewhere near bottom of washing machine'.

Bear in mind this is a daughter who calls me to ask me to make a shelf
'three Argos catalogues long'.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is plugged
into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the fuse in
its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c) both?

Is there a general rule of thumb?

The MCB isn't tripping.

(trying to fault find daughters washing machine over the phone, can't get
round till tomorrow pm).

Weeeeeeeellllll....

You would think that the appliance fuse (given that they were the same
type of fuse with the same rating) would go first, but there is no hard
and fast rule that can be applied

No you would not.
There is no reason to expect the appliance fuse to fail before the
extension's fuse.

On Sep 1, 9:02*pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is plugged
into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the fuse in
its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c) both?

Is there a general rule of thumb?

The MCB isn't tripping.

(trying to fault find daughters washing machine over the phone, can't get
round till tomorrow pm).

If you look at fuse rating curves, you quickly notice 2 things
a) what large currents are needed to pop them
b) how widely their characteristics tend to vary

in short, there's no way to know which 13A fuse will pop. However if
more than one appliance were on at once, the fuse seeing highest
current would be more likely to pop first, ie the extension lead fuse.

9kw on a 13A lead - fun! Hope shes got a camera, smoke alarms and a
designated fire escape route.

As it sounds like a dead short I cant see how she'd solve it, surely a
WM can wait till tomorrow?


NT

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
k...
The Medway Handyman presented the following explanation :
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is
plugged into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the
fuse in its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c) both?

If both are the same value of fuse, either or both could blow - assuming
the washing machine is the only load on the extension. Normally an MCB
would be the first to trip.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk



Depends on fuse rating and fault current. It's not unknown for both fuses
to go and the circuit MCB.

If the fault current is relatively low it will just take out the weakest
fuse.

Current can still flow through a molten wire or plasma of metal vapour. I
have known glass fuses to shatter, but not the standard mains ceramic, sand
filled types.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is plugged
into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the fuse in
its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c) both?

Is there a general rule of thumb?

The MCB isn't tripping.

(trying to fault find daughters washing machine over the phone, can't get
round till tomorrow pm).

Weeeeeeeellllll....

You would think that the appliance fuse (given that they were the
same type of fuse with the same rating) would go first, but there is
no hard and fast rule that can be applied

No you would not.
There is no reason to expect the appliance fuse to fail before the
extension's fuse.

He obviously thought that one of them would have gone first - that's
why he asked, most people think that the one nearest the fault would go
first. TMH is not someone with the depth of knowledge in such things -
again, which is why he asked

dickhead

--
geoff

John Rumm wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Medway Handyman presented the following explanation :
If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is
plugged into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow
(a) the fuse in its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or
(c) both?
If both are the same value of fuse, either or both could blow -
assuming the washing machine is the only load on the extension.
Normally an MCB would be the first to trip.

Tumble drier & small dishwasher are on the same lead, their fuses
seem to survive.

Eeek! You really mean that there is what could easily be more than 6kW
of load on one poor little 3kW extension lead of questionable quality?

Hadn't thought about the overload, good point. Have warned daughter not to
use more than one appliance at a time.

Latest reports (via phone) are that there is a 'flash & bang' from
'somewhere near bottom of washing machine'.

Short on the mains input filter would be a good possibility - if it
goes the moment power is applied.

Bear in mind this is a daughter who calls me to ask me to make a
shelf 'three Argos catalogues long'.

Ah, so tell her she probably has an Ikea and a Matalan catalogue too
many plugged into her lead then!

The plot thickens! Didn't get round tonight, but gleaned over the phone;

There is one two gang socket outlet in the utility area. One outlet
supplies a fridge/freezer, the other oulet supplies the three gang extension
lead.

The dishwasher (table top model) sits on top of the washing machine, the two
gang socket is mounted on the wall level with the top of the WM. The
dishwasher has apparently been leaking.

Got daughters 'bloke' to turn power off, remove socket cover & spray with
WD40 to make sure the socket wasn't damp/wet. There is only one 2.5mm
cable, so I assume this is a spur.

Next on the list is to get the washing machine checked, but long term she
can't keep having that kind of load on a three gang extension plugged into a
spur.

What sort of load will a spur cope with if I replaced the two gang with a
four gang?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The Medway Handyman wrote:


What sort of load will a spur cope with if I replaced the two gang
with a four gang?

Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

A single 2.5 mm^2 cable is good for about 20 amps - and will thus support a
*total* load not exceeding about 4.6kW
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

John Rumm wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

The plot thickens! Didn't get round tonight, but gleaned over the
phone; There is one two gang socket outlet in the utility area. One
outlet
supplies a fridge/freezer, the other oulet supplies the three gang
extension lead.

Not much utility in that utility area then!

The dishwasher (table top model) sits on top of the washing machine,
the two gang socket is mounted on the wall level with the top of the
WM. The dishwasher has apparently been leaking.

That will help - not.

Got daughters 'bloke' to turn power off, remove socket cover & spray
with WD40 to make sure the socket wasn't damp/wet. There is only
one 2.5mm cable, so I assume this is a spur.

could be - not worth assuming at these sorts of loads though.

Next on the list is to get the washing machine checked, but long
term she can't keep having that kind of load on a three gang
extension plugged into a spur.

What sort of load will a spur cope with if I replaced the two gang
with a four gang?

A spur with one double socket on it has a design load of approx 20A -
allowing for a bit of diversity. Its worth using decent quality
accessories under these circumstances as well.

If you swap to a 4 gang socket, you will *reduce* the total capacity
(nominally at least) to 13A since the socket will be fused (since you
can't have 4 sockets on an unfused spur). Note however she is already
limited to 13A via the extension lead - so not actually that different
apart from the fridge not sharing the 13A fuse. The fridge itself is
not going to be a big consumer, however its inrush current as the
motor starts may be quite high.

Really in this case you need to find where the spur cable comes from
and see if you can take a second cable there. Then stick in a extra
pair of double sockets and join them into the ring.

Thanks John


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article
,
Owain wrote:
"Give piano keys a clean up with a squirt of WD-40 and a clean cloth."

That's pushing your luck here.

--
*The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

A Type-B 32A CPD needs 5*In or 170A for instant trip, whereas a BS1362
13A needs around 7*In or 91A for "pretty quick trip". Quality & most
likely age is a factor - a fuse dissipates about 8W at 13A. You'll be
delighted to know dodgy BS1361 fuses exist: no sand, they don't 'arf
go bang.

An MK double socket is rated to 19.5A continuously. It is indeed worth
running a new spur from wherever to at least another double socket.

There is a small chance the "32A ring" might actually be 32A radial in
4mm. For some houses it can be much simpler than forming a ring in
2.5mm, so do not be surprised. There is a length limit because 4mm CPC
in just 1.5mm (lawd knows why, could easily have made it 2.5mm but
there we go). Almost makes you want to use 6mm, but getting twin of
that into a double socket in 35mm backbox just isn't going to be
funny.

If you want to use one-multiple 3-3.3kW appliances on an extension
lead, use H07RNF in 1.5mm. That has 16A continuous rating, is pretty
tough and the 1.5mm vs 1.25mm offers a bit of leeway re local heating.
Some dryers have heater covers that get scalding hot on the back if
the cable is nearby.

Moulded plugs on some appliances are just junk these days. I have a
suspicion some makers are using different insulation (90oC rated) or
assuming short duty cycle (kettle) to get away with ever thinner
appliance leads. The result is whilst cable heating is obvious the
plugs can run almost hot which doesn't help backbox wiring. My AEG
runs about 3.2kW and after 2hrs the 1.25mm flex is like spaghetti, the
plug roasting. No doubt the fuse tabs aren't great - put a proper plug
on it and the temperature drop is very considerable. Putting two such
plugs in an extension would probably get quite nasty - some cheap
extensions have very thin busbar inside.

We should have done a miniature-body hybrid of BS4343 (round-pin) 16A
radials by now for high current appliances, and likewise cookers which
I can't help but think would benefit from a 32A plug-n-go. No doubt
the AD BR P Stakeholder Crowd will buy a shedload of clipsal series 56
and create some statistics in order to mandate their usage.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 03:19:53 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:

# Squirrels pinching your nuts? A squirt of WD-40 on your bird table
stand will help prevent them from pinching food left for feathered
friends.

That one was on a BBC Radio programme I caught last week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/worldbiz

A programme on WD40 but very empty of facts or real information, The
MD is most definately full of marketing bull**** and management
speak. Marketing is the real reason behind the success of WD40,
nothing to do with it's real abilty to actually do what it says on
the tin.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sep 2, 10:57*pm, Owain wrote:
On 2 Sep, 22:00, "The Medway Handyman" *wrote:

Got daughters 'bloke' to turn power off, remove socket cover & spray with
WD40 to make sure the socket wasn't damp/wet.

Okaaaaay.

I assumed that was a joke!


What sort of load will a spur cope with if I replaced the two gang with a
four gang?

13A. You can have one single or double socket on a spur; anything else
must be through a 13A fuse (or to be pedantic a 16A MCB but they
aren't readily available in faceplate style so need an enclosure etc).

One spur really isn't adequate for 3 heavy load appliances.

Owain

There are some possible horrible bodges to make it work, but in
sensible land a new 2nd power feed is needed.

Re 2.5mm2 spurs, the cable's rated at 28A clipped direct, and note
this is a continuous rating, exceeding this short term is normal
practice seen on numerous 2.5mm2 rings.


NT

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:53:46 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 03:19:53 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:

# Squirrels pinching your nuts? A squirt of WD-40 on your bird table
stand will help prevent them from pinching food left for feathered
friends.

That one was on a BBC Radio programme I caught last week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/worldbiz

A programme on WD40 but very empty of facts or real information, The
MD is most definately full of marketing bull**** and management
speak. Marketing is the real reason behind the success of WD40,
nothing to do with it's real abilty to actually do what it says on
the tin.

WMD45 hasn't had the same success ;-)
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 03:19:53 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:

# Squirrels pinching your nuts? A squirt of WD-40 on your bird table
stand will help prevent them from pinching food left for feathered
friends.

That one was on a BBC Radio programme I caught last week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/worldbiz

A programme on WD40 but very empty of facts or real information, The
MD is most definately full of marketing bull**** and management
speak. Marketing is the real reason behind the success of WD40,
nothing to do with it's real abilty to actually do what it says on
the tin.

So, a product thats been around since 1953 and is now a household name,
selling $300 million worth a year to 148 countries - is simply down to
marketing?

**** me I'd love to know the name of that ad agency. Nothing to do with
that fact that it actually works then?


--
Dave - WD40 Liberation Front.

On Sep 3, 11:22*am, Owain wrote:
On 3 Sep, 00:33, "js.b1" wrote:
There is a small chance the "32A ring" might actually be 32A radial in
4mm.

It shouldn't be, if the spur is 2.5mm. The radial should be wired in
the same size conductor throughout.

Actually many sparks do run 1G & 2G in 2.5mm off a 4mm 32A radial, the
reason being the 13A fuse in each BS1363(A) plug protects the cable.

The problem is the kitchen fitter comes along and adds another 1G or
2G socket, thereby ruining things. One reason why 4mm 32A, length
aside, is not a bad idea in a utility or kitchen as it is kitchen
fitter proof.

We should have done a miniature-body hybrid of BS4343 (round-pin) 16A
radials by now for high current appliances, and likewise cookers which
I can't help but think would benefit from a 32A plug-n-go.

No. *:-)

Yes... makes it way easier to plug in a *welder*... :-) ... then again
where's the fun without cut-down nails for fuses. Ok, I admit you
can't miniaturise BS4343 32A very much so the idea is a total non-
starter.

On Sep 3, 11:52*pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 03:19:53 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:

# Squirrels pinching your nuts? A squirt of WD-40 on your bird table
stand will help prevent them from pinching food left for feathered
friends.

That one was on a BBC Radio programme I caught last week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/worldbiz

A programme on WD40 but very empty of facts or real information, The
MD is most definately full of marketing bull**** and management
speak. Marketing is the real reason behind the success of WD40,
nothing to do with it's real abilty to actually do what it says on
the tin.

So, a product thats been around since 1953 and is now a household name,
selling $300 million worth *a year to 148 countries - is simply down to
marketing?

there are better products with little market penetration


**** me I'd love to know the name of that ad agency. *Nothing to do with
that fact that it actually works then?

good marketing is a lot more than using an ad agency


NT

On Sep 4, 1:35*am, NT wrote:
On Sep 3, 11:52*pm, "The Medway Handyman"



wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 03:19:53 -0700 (PDT), Owain wrote:
# Squirrels pinching your nuts? A squirt of WD-40 on your bird table
stand will help prevent them from pinching food left for feathered
friends.

That one was on a BBC Radio programme I caught last week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/worldbiz

A programme on WD40 but very empty of facts or real information, The
MD is most definately full of marketing bull**** and management
speak. Marketing is the real reason behind the success of WD40,
nothing to do with it's real abilty to actually do what it says on
the tin.

So, a product thats been around since 1953 and is now a household name,
selling $300 million worth *a year to 148 countries - is simply down to
marketing?

there are better products with little market penetration

**** me I'd love to know the name of that ad agency. *Nothing to do with
that fact that it actually works then?

good marketing is a lot more than using an ad agency

NT

there are way bigger products and market sectors than wd40 that are
little more than marketing


NT

On Sep 4, 2:31*am, John Rumm wrote:
NT wrote:
So, a product thats been around since 1953 and is now a household name,
selling $300 million worth *a year to 148 countries - is simply down to
marketing?

there are better products with little market penetration

There are better specialist products certainly - better lubricants,
cleaners, penetrating oils etc - however part of the attraction of WD40
is that it does lots of jobs well enough. People pay for convenience,
and a "one can does loads of things" product is very convenient.

think I'd sooner use oil plus paraffin, does a better job


NT

On Sep 2, 12:06*am, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Bear in mind this is a daughter who calls me to ask me to make a shelf
'three Argos catalogues long'.

Hmm, length-wise or width-wise ?

As a unit of measurement, it'lll not catch on that quickly

Paul.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
There are better specialist products certainly - better lubricants,
cleaners, penetrating oils etc - however part of the attraction of
WD40 is that it does lots of jobs well enough. People pay for
convenience, and a "one can does loads of things" product is very
convenient.

think I'd sooner use oil plus paraffin, does a better job

and can I buy that in a little squirty tin almost anywhere?

Even Halfords sell penetrating oil that works better than WD40.

--
*Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
There are better specialist products certainly - better lubricants,
cleaners, penetrating oils etc - however part of the attraction of
WD40 is that it does lots of jobs well enough. People pay for
convenience, and a "one can does loads of things" product is very
convenient.
think I'd sooner use oil plus paraffin, does a better job

and can I buy that in a little squirty tin almost anywhere?

Even Halfords sell penetrating oil that works better than WD40.

Of course, but you are missing my point. WD40 is not a single purpose
penetrating oil, but it will have some effect if used as such. Its not a
specialist product at all - its a jack of all trades. One tin does lots
of jobs well enough for people to buy it.

Maybe. But the problem is 'people' think it is as good as the real thing
for those tasks - and it's not.

--
*If PROGRESS is for advancement, what does that make CONGRESS mean?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
There are better specialist products certainly - better
lubricants, cleaners, penetrating oils etc - however part of the
attraction of WD40 is that it does lots of jobs well enough.
People pay for convenience, and a "one can does loads of things"
product is very convenient.
think I'd sooner use oil plus paraffin, does a better job

and can I buy that in a little squirty tin almost anywhere?

Even Halfords sell penetrating oil that works better than WD40.

Of course, but you are missing my point. WD40 is not a single purpose
penetrating oil, but it will have some effect if used as such. Its
not a specialist product at all - its a jack of all trades. One tin
does lots of jobs well enough for people to buy it.

Maybe. But the problem is 'people' think it is as good as the real
thing for those tasks - and it's not.

But its good enough. It works pretty well as a penetrating oil, a lubricant
& a water displacer. Sure you can get individual products that might be
slightly better, but WD40 does the job 9 times out of 10.


--
Dave - WD40 Liberation Front.

On Sep 4, 3:57*pm, Owain wrote:
Nononono, you wire in two x 13A input leads to the welder and run it
off two different sockets :-)

Hope they are on the same phase :-)

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 4 Sep, 00:11, "js.b1" wrote:
It shouldn't be, if the spur is 2.5mm. The radial should be wired in
the same size conductor throughout.
Actually many sparks do run 1G & 2G in 2.5mm off a 4mm 32A radial, the
reason being the 13A fuse in each BS1363(A) plug protects the cable.

Until ...

The problem is the kitchen fitter comes along and adds another 1G or
2G socket, thereby ruining things.

Except that's why radials are required to have the same conductor size
throughout, so the entire circuit is capable of carrying the rated
current.

Is that true?
I thought it specified a minimum size.

"js.b1" wrote in message
...
A Type-B 32A CPD needs 5*In or 170A for instant trip, whereas a BS1362
13A needs around 7*In or 91A for "pretty quick trip". Quality & most
likely age is a factor - a fuse dissipates about 8W at 13A. You'll be
delighted to know dodgy BS1361 fuses exist: no sand, they don't 'arf
go bang.

An MK double socket is rated to 19.5A continuously. It is indeed worth
running a new spur from wherever to at least another double socket.

There is a small chance the "32A ring" might actually be 32A radial in
4mm. For some houses it can be much simpler than forming a ring in
2.5mm, so do not be surprised. There is a length limit because 4mm CPC
in just 1.5mm (lawd knows why, could easily have made it 2.5mm but
there we go). Almost makes you want to use 6mm, but getting twin of
that into a double socket in 35mm backbox just isn't going to be
funny.

I believe on RCD protected circuits the length of a 4mm 32A radial is
limited by voltage drop and not the earth loop.

Adam

On Sep 5, 7:49*am, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
I believe on RCD protected circuits the length of a 4mm 32A radial is
limited by voltage drop and not the earth loop.

Ah, yes, it will be since RCD protected.
That is quite an advantage since 17th allows 5% voltage drop on power.

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 23:40:48 +0100, geoff wrote:

If an appliance is plugged into an extension lead, and the lead is plugged
into a socket outlet - will a fault in the appliance blow (a) the fuse in
its own lead, (b) the fuse in the extension lead or (c) both?

Is there a general rule of thumb?

The MCB isn't tripping.

(trying to fault find daughters washing machine over the phone, can't get
round till tomorrow pm).

Weeeeeeeellllll....

You would think that the appliance fuse (given that they were the same
type of fuse with the same rating) would go first,

Why?

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 5 Sep, 07:49, "ARWadsworth" wrote:
I believe on RCD protected circuits the length of a 4mm 32A radial is
limited by voltage drop and not the earth loop.

But that would be the length from the origin of the installation to
each socket, not the circuit length in total?

Owain


Well that could be the same thing if the sockets are daisy chained with no
spurs.

It is the distance to the "farthest" socket that counts when star wiring a
radial.

Adam

"js.b1" wrote in message
...
On Sep 5, 7:49 am, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
I believe on RCD protected circuits the length of a 4mm 32A radial is
limited by voltage drop and not the earth loop.

Ah, yes, it will be since RCD protected.
That is quite an advantage since 17th allows 5% voltage drop on power.


The 5% helps on ring circuits as well:-)

When doing rewires there is often a ******* of a socket to fit that will use
lots of cable to prevent damage to the decorations or because of the
structure of the house. I frequently make these type of sockets a spur from
the ring circuit to keep the voltage drop down on the ring circuit.

Adam

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:03:33 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Its not a specialist product at all - its a jack of all trades. One tin
does lots of jobs well enough for people to buy it.

When suckered in by the marketing and ease of availabilty.

--
Cheers
Dave.