I know this sort of thing crops up here periodically, so hope I can tap
into the group's expertise...

My neighbour apparently has a blocked pipe (sewage? surface water? not
sure yet); however this affects me in that said pipe runs under my drive
where it mates up with an inspection cover (from where DynoRod are doing
their stuff). I don't have any drainage problem myself, but if the
damage/blockage is on the leg of pipe just serving the neighbour's
property, but is located on my property, do I need to share (bear?) any
repair costs?

Or is this one of those 'check the deeds' questions?

Relations are good and I don't want to shirk any responsibilities I may
have, but don't want to offer something I don't need to!

Thanks
David

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Lobster wrote:

I know this sort of thing crops up here periodically, so hope I can
tap into the group's expertise...

My neighbour apparently has a blocked pipe (sewage? surface water? not
sure yet); however this affects me in that said pipe runs under my
drive where it mates up with an inspection cover (from where DynoRod
are doing their stuff). I don't have any drainage problem myself,
but if the damage/blockage is on the leg of pipe just serving the
neighbour's property, but is located on my property, do I need to
share (bear?) any repair costs?

Or is this one of those 'check the deeds' questions?

Relations are good and I don't want to shirk any responsibilities I
may have, but don't want to offer something I don't need to!

Thanks
David

First question is whether it is a public or private sewer? If it just serves
2 or 3 properties, chances are that it is a private sewer, in which case the
unblocking costs are the responsibility of the householders whose properties
are served by it - *unless* the properties were built before 193x (I forget
the exact date, but it's thirty-something), in which case it's the water
board's responsibility, and you shouldn't be wasting money on private
contractors such as DynoRod.

Assuming it's down to the householders, your deeds will say something about
it - but the most likely scenario is that the owners of all properties
served by the sewer are jointly responsible, even if not equally affected by
the problem.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
I know this sort of thing crops up here periodically, so hope I can tap
into the group's expertise...

My neighbour apparently has a blocked pipe (sewage? surface water? not
sure yet); however this affects me in that said pipe runs under my drive
where it mates up with an inspection cover (from where DynoRod are doing
their stuff). I don't have any drainage problem myself, but if the
damage/blockage is on the leg of pipe just serving the neighbour's
property, but is located on my property, do I need to share (bear?) any
repair costs?

Or is this one of those 'check the deeds' questions?

Relations are good and I don't want to shirk any responsibilities I may
have, but don't want to offer something I don't need to!

Thanks
David

Won't help you now, but for future reference.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2008/081215a.htm



-

"Mark" wrote:
Won't help you now, but for future reference.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2008/081215a.htm

I wonder if this will still go ahead as it will be a year after Labour will
have been in opposition.

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Lobster wrote:

I know this sort of thing crops up here periodically, so hope I can
tap into the group's expertise...

My neighbour apparently has a blocked pipe (sewage? surface water? not
sure yet); however this affects me in that said pipe runs under my
drive where it mates up with an inspection cover (from where DynoRod
are doing their stuff). I don't have any drainage problem myself,
but if the damage/blockage is on the leg of pipe just serving the
neighbour's property, but is located on my property, do I need to
share (bear?) any repair costs?

Or is this one of those 'check the deeds' questions?

Relations are good and I don't want to shirk any responsibilities I
may have, but don't want to offer something I don't need to!

First question is whether it is a public or private sewer? If it just serves
2 or 3 properties, chances are that it is a private sewer, in which case the
unblocking costs are the responsibility of the householders whose properties
are served by it - *unless* the properties were built before 193x (I forget
the exact date, but it's thirty-something), in which case it's the water
board's responsibility, and you shouldn't be wasting money on private
contractors such as DynoRod.

Well the sewer concerned serves my house and the neighbours (adjoining
semis) and definitely pre-1930 - the properties were built in 1912. Is
that really right that in a house of that age, the water co is
responsible if the blockage is on private property? In my case we think
the blockage is in the diagonal leg of the sewer in the ASCII-art below
(ie, potentially under either mine or my neighbour's drive).
If so where would I find chapter and verse on that?

__________________________________
| | |
| Lobster | John Q. |
| Towers | Neighbour's |
| | House |
| | |
| | |
| | |
|________________|_________________|
| X /
Drive | X/ Drive
| X
_|_ /X
IC | |/ X
|___| X
| X X=hedge
| X IC=inspection chamber
=========================================
|
Sewer| MAIN ROAD


=========================================

Thanks again
David

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:16:38 +0100, Imbecile wrote:

"Mark" wrote:
Won't help you now, but for future reference.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2008/081215a.htm

I wonder if this will still go ahead as it will be a year after Labour will
have been in opposition.

=================================================

Very likely. Severn Trent have already started surveying older properties
in my area (West Midlands)to map out the existing drains - dating from
1936 I think. A few weeks after their survey they came back to clean the
drains they'd discovered / mapped.

Cic.

--
=================================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
=================================================

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Lobster wrote:


Well the sewer concerned serves my house and the neighbours (adjoining
semis) and definitely pre-1930 - the properties were built in 1912. Is
that really right that in a house of that age, the water co is
responsible if the blockage is on private property? In my case we
think the blockage is in the diagonal leg of the sewer in the
ASCII-art below (ie, potentially under either mine or my neighbour's
drive). If so where would I find chapter and verse on that?


Try this one:
http://www.southernwater.co.uk/Domes...OwnsTheSewers/

Look carefully at the bits about pre- and post- 1937

[Although this is on one particular water company's site, I'm sure that the
same thing applies elsewhere].
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
First question is whether it is a public or private sewer? If it just
serves 2 or 3 properties, chances are that it is a private sewer, in
which case the unblocking costs are the responsibility of the
householders whose properties are served by it - *unless* the
properties were built before 193x (I forget the exact date, but it's
thirty-something), in which case it's the water board's responsibility,
and you shouldn't be wasting money on private contractors such as
DynoRod.

That's interesting. My house is Victorian and shares the drain with next
door. All their drains go to a manhole in my back yard where mine join -
then exit *under* my house, to a manhole in the front then on to the
street sewer. Are you saying they are the responsibility of the water
company?

--
*Warning: Dates in Calendar are closer than they appear.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote:
On 25 Aug,
"Roger Mills" wrote:

First question is whether it is a public or private sewer? If it just
serves 2 or 3 properties, chances are that it is a private sewer, in which
case the unblocking costs are the responsibility of the householders whose
properties are served by it - *unless* the properties were built before
193x (I forget the exact date, but it's thirty-something), in which case
it's the water board's responsibility, and you shouldn't be wasting money
on private contractors such as DynoRod.

Assuming it's down to the householders, your deeds will say something about
it - but the most likely scenario is that the owners of all properties
served by the sewer are jointly responsible, even if not equally affected
by the problem.

If you don't discharge into the blocked section it is not your
responsiblility. If you do you share the costs, but not if it was built
before 193mumble, when it is the Water Co's rsponsibility.

However, if you ask a private contractor and not the water Co. to do the job,
it remains your responsibility to pay them.


I suspect for practical reasons the whole of the shared sewer is
normally down to the water company. It's quicker for them to just clear
it than to try and pinpoint the problem. There is also the scenario
where the people on whose property the blockage occurs are on holiday etc

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
First question is whether it is a public or private sewer? If it just
serves 2 or 3 properties, chances are that it is a private sewer, in
which case the unblocking costs are the responsibility of the
householders whose properties are served by it - *unless* the
properties were built before 193x (I forget the exact date, but it's
thirty-something), in which case it's the water board's
responsibility, and you shouldn't be wasting money on private
contractors such as DynoRod.

That's interesting. My house is Victorian and shares the drain with
next door. All their drains go to a manhole in my back yard where
mine join - then exit *under* my house, to a manhole in the front
then on to the street sewer. Are you saying they are the
responsibility of the water company?

I *think* so. Did you see the link which I posted later, which explains it
further? Here it is again:
http://www.southernwater.co.uk/Domes...OwnsTheSewers/
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
That's interesting. My house is Victorian and shares the drain with
next door. All their drains go to a manhole in my back yard where
mine join - then exit *under* my house, to a manhole in the front
then on to the street sewer. Are you saying they are the
responsibility of the water company?

I *think* so. Did you see the link which I posted later, which explains it
further? Here it is again:
http://www.southernwater.co.uk/Domes...OwnsTheSewers/

Yes - but I'm not with that water company. Although it does look like it
is a national thing.

My neighbour had a drain clearer in just last week. Charged 300 quid - but
didn't ask me for a contribution. Wonder how fast a water company would
turn up - this wasn't an actual blockage - just an occasional smell. And
I'm not sure that what they did would have sorted it permanently. I think
it's down to a patio drain they had installed at the same time as removing
their outside loo. The builders were proper bodgers. My guess is the
outside loo wasn't properly capped off or whatever.

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25 Aug, 17:05, Lobster wrote:
I know this sort of thing crops up here periodically, so hope I can tap
into the group's expertise...

My neighbour apparently has a blocked pipe (sewage? surface water? not
sure yet); however this affects me in that said pipe runs under my drive
where it mates up with an inspection cover (from where DynoRod are doing
their stuff). *I don't have any drainage problem myself, but if the
damage/blockage is on the leg of pipe just serving the neighbour's
property, but is located on my property, do I need to share (bear?) any
repair costs?

Or is this one of those 'check the deeds' questions?

Relations are good and I don't want to shirk any responsibilities I may
have, but don't want to offer something I don't need to!

Thanks
David

Dyno Rod? - Your neighbour must like bills. Surely one of you could
have bought a set of rods for less than the call-out charge

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
That's interesting. My house is Victorian and shares the drain with
next door. All their drains go to a manhole in my back yard where
mine join - then exit *under* my house, to a manhole in the front
then on to the street sewer. Are you saying they are the
responsibility of the water company?

I *think* so. Did you see the link which I posted later, which explains it
further? Here it is again:
http://www.southernwater.co.uk/Domes...OwnsTheSewers/

Yes - but I'm not with that water company. Although it does look like it
is a national thing.

My neighbour had a drain clearer in just last week. Charged 300 quid - but
didn't ask me for a contribution. Wonder how fast a water company would
turn up

I think Thames Water are obliged to come within 4 hours. In our case
they park a sizeable lorry in the middle of the road, roll out some sort
of huge flexible drive thing, and are gone in about 10 minutes.


- this wasn't an actual blockage - just an occasional smell. And
I'm not sure that what they did would have sorted it permanently. I think
it's down to a patio drain they had installed at the same time as removing
their outside loo. The builders were proper bodgers. My guess is the
outside loo wasn't properly capped off or whatever.

On Aug 26, 11:22*am, cynic wrote:
On 25 Aug, 17:05, Lobster wrote:

My neighbour apparently has a blocked pipe (sewage? surface water? not
sure yet); however this affects me in that said pipe runs under my drive
where it mates up with an inspection cover (from where DynoRod are doing
their stuff).

Dyno Rod? - Your neighbour must like bills. Surely one of you could
have bought a set of rods for less than the call-out charge

Those boys really earn their inflated costs.

I cleared a full inspection cover for one of my friends a while back.
What a bloody awful job, even with goggles, gauntlets and a face mask.

I'll be thinking twice before I volunteer again :-)

Paul.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
First question is whether it is a public or private sewer? If it just
serves 2 or 3 properties, chances are that it is a private sewer, in
which case the unblocking costs are the responsibility of the
householders whose properties are served by it - *unless* the
properties were built before 193x (I forget the exact date, but it's
thirty-something), in which case it's the water board's responsibility,
and you shouldn't be wasting money on private contractors such as
DynoRod.

That's interesting. My house is Victorian and shares the drain with next
door. All their drains go to a manhole in my back yard where mine join -
then exit *under* my house, to a manhole in the front then on to the
street sewer. Are you saying they are the responsibility of the water
company?


You have to be careful between the definition of a drain and a sewer

See Diagram at the bottom of this page

http://www.dudley.gov.uk/transport-a...sponsibilities

http://tinyurl.com/mm9sxq

even under Section 24 or the new regs you are still responsible for your own
Drains.





-

In article ,
Mark wrote:
That's interesting. My house is Victorian and shares the drain with
next door. All their drains go to a manhole in my back yard where mine
join - then exit *under* my house, to a manhole in the front then on
to the street sewer. Are you saying they are the responsibility of the
water company?


You have to be careful between the definition of a drain and a sewer

See Diagram at the bottom of this page

http://www.dudley.gov.uk/transport-a...sponsibilities

http://tinyurl.com/mm9sxq

even under Section 24 or the new regs you are still responsible for your
own Drains.

Looking at that diagram, it suggests the common part of the shared drain
is public. Although they seem to set out to confuse.
..

--
*Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mark wrote:


You have to be careful between the definition of a drain and a sewer

See Diagram at the bottom of this page

http://www.dudley.gov.uk/transport-a...sponsibilities

http://tinyurl.com/mm9sxq

even under Section 24 or the new regs you are still responsible for
your own Drains.


True - but the new (2011) regs will leave you better off than the Section 24
situation. AIUI, after 2011, you will *only* be responsible for that part of
a private drain (serving only your property) which is within your property
boundaries. As soon as it becomes shared, or goes outside your boundary, it
will become the water company's responsibility.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In article , Roger Mills
wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Mark
wrote:


You have to be careful between the definition of a drain and a sewer

See Diagram at the bottom of this page

http://www.dudley.gov.uk/transport-a...sponsibilities

http://tinyurl.com/mm9sxq

even under Section 24 or the new regs you are still responsible for
your own Drains.


True - but the new (2011) regs will leave you better off than the
Section 24 situation. AIUI, after 2011, you will *only* be responsible
for that part of a private drain (serving only your property) which is
within your property boundaries. As soon as it becomes shared, or goes
outside your boundary, it will become the water company's responsibility.

So in my case that would be the part joining the manhole at the back of
the house (where all my drains and next doors meet up) which then runs
under my house to the front garden and another manhole (with no extra
drains going into it) and then on to the street one? Ie the expensive part
to fix if it went badly wrong?

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


True - but the new (2011) regs will leave you better off than the
Section 24 situation. AIUI, after 2011, you will *only* be
responsible for that part of a private drain (serving only your
property) which is within your property boundaries. As soon as it
becomes shared, or goes outside your boundary, it will become the
water company's responsibility.

So in my case that would be the part joining the manhole at the back
of the house (where all my drains and next doors meet up) which then
runs under my house to the front garden and another manhole (with no
extra drains going into it) and then on to the street one? Ie the
expensive part to fix if it went badly wrong?

I'm not totally clear what you're asking or stating but, AIUI, after 2011:

You will be responsible for the connection from your house to the first
(shared) manhole.

The water company will be responsible for everything else on your property
which goes in or out of that manhole - including those parts of your
neighbours' connections which are under your land *and* for the pipe which
goes under your house on its way towards the main sewer.

Is that your interpretation?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mark wrote:


You have to be careful between the definition of a drain and a sewer

See Diagram at the bottom of this page

http://www.dudley.gov.uk/transport-a...reet-care-and-
maintenance/drainage-and-sewerage-/drains-and-sewer-responsibilities

http://tinyurl.com/mm9sxq

even under Section 24 or the new regs you are still responsible for
your own Drains.


True - but the new (2011) regs will leave you better off than the Section
24 situation. AIUI, after 2011, you will *only* be responsible for that
part of a private drain (serving only your property) which is within your
property boundaries. As soon as it becomes shared, or goes outside your
boundary, it will become the water company's responsibility.

not quite as i see it
under a Section 24 property, where two of more drains connect to a sewer you
are only liable for your own drains, up-to were it leaves your property or
connects to a sewer,
Section 24 sewers are classed as Public sewers.*
(which is why i said you need to be clear about the definition between drain
and sewer)
the same arrangement in a row of houses built after 1939 the sewers would be
classed as Private, until they hit the Public sewer which could be anywhere,
not necessarily in the road outside the houses, the cost of cleaning or
repair would have to be met by everyone connected to that Private sewer.***
under the porpoised new regs the water authority will now adopt all private
sewers and lateral's.*
\0

"Mark" wrote in message
m...
Roger Mills wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mark wrote:


You have to be careful between the definition of a drain and a sewer
snipped

Excuse me for perhaps butting in here but I have a related question.
In 1957 I bought 2 cottages which were built in 1822. I lived in one and
rented out the other.The drains led to a shared manhole beyond the property
line The combined drain then dropped down inside a 10 ft retainining wall
for the main road to the public sewer. When the tenant moved (approx 1961) I
converted the properties to 1 house. Late 60's we had a broken drain in the
wall, which had subsided owing to the increased traffic. The drain was
repaired free of charge by the council who at that time provided sewerage
services. Although we have not had any further problems I have often
wondered just what the position would be now, as it could be a very
substantial cost to do a similar repair.

TiA
Pepper