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Default Aldi generator

Hello,

I see there is an 850w (peak), 650w continuous generator in Aldi.
There was a web site listed on the side of the box and I scribbled it
down but I've lost the piece of paper. Does anyone know who makes the
Powercraft tools for Aldi?

Has anyone used this generator? What are your opinions? Is it worth
having or is it better to buy a bigger, more expensive, four stroke
model? How clean is the output: is it pure sine wave? Will all
electronics be happy running from it? Is it noisy?

Thanks,
Stephen.
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This is the company that sources a lot of Aldi's power tools. Don't
know whether that includes the genny.

http://www.walter-werkzeuge.com/en/

Here are the contact details for the service agent for the genny.
According to the homepage, they'll send you a manual, if that's any
use:

http://www.aldiwarranty.co.uk/search...ail.asp?id=906
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In message
,
mike writes
This is the company that sources a lot of Aldi's power tools. Don't
know whether that includes the genny.

http://www.walter-werkzeuge.com/en/

Here are the contact details for the service agent for the genny.
According to the homepage, they'll send you a manual, if that's any
use:

http://www.aldiwarranty.co.uk/search...ail.asp?id=906

If it's not an inverter type then it has to be pure sine wave doesn't it
or am I missing something?
--
Clint Sharp
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On 26 June, 16:22, Stephen wrote:

Has anyone used this generator?


Didn't choose it, didn't buy it, avoid using the thing, but yes, I've
got one.

What are your opinions?


It's better than not having one. OTOH, I can pick up far better Honda
4 strokes S/H from farm auctions for a pittance, and they're bigger,
quieter, dead easy to service (buy a whole new GX120 at the next farm
auction!) and I suspect use less fuel too.

How clean is the output:


Same as nearly all motor gensets, it's pretty clean. Depends a bit on
the exciter (I believe there's some modern funniness), but they're all
"clean" in comparison to battery inverter output. For one thing, all
that ironmongery is a decent enough HF noise filter.
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"Stephen" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I see there is an 850w (peak), 650w continuous generator in Aldi.
There was a web site listed on the side of the box and I scribbled it
down but I've lost the piece of paper. Does anyone know who makes the
Powercraft tools for Aldi?

Has anyone used this generator? What are your opinions? Is it worth
having or is it better to buy a bigger, more expensive, four stroke
model? How clean is the output: is it pure sine wave? Will all
electronics be happy running from it? Is it noisy?


The aldi stuff is often rebadged Wolf gear.



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Stephen wrote:

Has anyone used this generator? What are your opinions?


It's a bog-standard cheap Chinese two-stroke. They are available in
multiple colours with various stickers on them, but always the same
hardware. I've got one, it's useful, I can run a computer and printer on
it.

Is it worth having or is it better to buy a bigger, more expensive, four
stroke model? How clean is the output: is it pure sine wave? Will all
electronics be happy running from it? Is it noisy?


It's best used at between 10 and 50% of the power quoted (ie 65W to
325W, the 850W is a joke). Even so the 230V sockets are of poor quality
and I ended up replacing the 13A socket fitted to the generator with a
decent quality socket.
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"Stephen" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I see there is an 850w (peak), 650w continuous generator in Aldi.
There was a web site listed on the side of the box and I scribbled it
down but I've lost the piece of paper. Does anyone know who makes the
Powercraft tools for Aldi?

Has anyone used this generator? What are your opinions? Is it worth
having or is it better to buy a bigger, more expensive, four stroke
model? How clean is the output: is it pure sine wave? Will all
electronics be happy running from it? Is it noisy?


not got an aldi one, but bought one in germany a few years back when my
motorhome batteries died, cost me 80 euro's, but you can get em from B&Q for
£50, or makro for 30 quid when they have em on sale (plus vat of course)

they are all the same internaly, 50cc 2 stroke engine, small genny head,
it's all one casting, so when the engine dies, you chuck it away, the output
is 'regulated' by a simple capacitor and of course the governer that keeps
it at the right speed, but that's all thats really needed,

as it's a alternator being spun at 3600 rpm or thereabouts, it's a pure sine
wave output, the only danger is when you first start it up and it's on
choke, and it runs out of fuel, then the engine speed will be varying, so
the output frequency will be varying too,

the 650 watt output is for a resistive load (tugsten/halogen light bulb,
simple heater etc) for motors the output is pretty low, think 350 watts has
been mentioned,

they are surprisingly quiet, think mine says 96DBA, but no way is it that
loud, it's not quite honda eu quiet, but it's not open frame contractors
generator loud either,

it sips fuel, mine runs for 6 to 8 hours on a tank of petroil... 4.5 litres,
and 80ml of 2 stroke oil, when i use mine it's running a 20 amp battery
charger mainly, and the laptop charger and my vinyl cutter,
i have inadvertantly had it powering the 1kw imersion heater element in the
calorifier, it bogged the engine down a little, but kept on running it along
with the battery charger which is what i put it on to run, voltage would
have been sagging quite a lot, but the charger will run on 90 to 280 volts,
and a frequancy from 30 to 400hz, and the imersion heater element couldent
care less what it gets fed,

Apparantly the 4 stroke versions of this genny are noisier, and use the same
ammount of fuel as they have an engine twice the size, but about the same
output,

the only thing the little 2 stroke gennies dont like is being lightly
loaded, they 4 stroke... i.e. missing every other firing stroke... that does
make them sound louder, when they have a load on them they purr along...
well sort of, but that's due to the cheapo carb that has to be set so it
dosent lean out at full load, and hence is a bit rich at low load,

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gazz wrote:
they are all the same internaly, 50cc 2 stroke engine, small genny
head, it's all one casting, so when the engine dies, you chuck it away,
the output is 'regulated' by a simple capacitor and of course the
governer that keeps it at the right speed, but that's all thats really
needed,

as it's a alternator being spun at 3600 rpm or thereabouts, it's a pure
sine wave output, the only danger is when you first start it up and
it's on choke, and it runs out of fuel, then the engine speed will be
varying, so the output frequency will be varying too,

the 650 watt output is for a resistive load (tugsten/halogen light
bulb, simple heater etc) for motors the output is pretty low, think 350
watts has been mentioned,


If those small 2-stroke gennies really are "all the same", it will
probably run a 2kg-class SDS drill, a 500W conventional electric drill
or a 4.5in angle grinder quite comfortably. At least, ours does and I've
no reason to suppose it's anything special.

It also runs the OFCH (fan, pump and controller), a small fridge or a
separate freezer - only one at a time because of the startup loads, but
none of them needs to run continuously. More recently we replaced the
separates with a larger fridge-freezer which really makes the genny
grunt on startup; in our case the generator still wins out, but YMMV.

All in all, the "800W" genny has proved a very cost-effective way to get
through the occasional power cut, and the good performance with power
tools was an unexpected bonus.

It has now joined that annoying class of cheap and cheerful tools that
stubbornly refuse to stop working, so I can't justify buying something
better.


--
Ian White
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On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:19:49 +0100, Clint Sharp
wrote:

If it's not an inverter type then it has to be pure sine wave doesn't it
or am I missing something?


I don't know, that's why I asked

I'm sure only inverters have square wave outputs but I don't know
whether some generators have more noise than others or less stable
frequencies than others?
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On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:18:59 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
wrote:

Didn't choose it, didn't buy it, avoid using the thing, but yes, I've
got one.


You don't sound too keen! Why do you avoid it?

It's better than not having one. OTOH, I can pick up far better Honda
4 strokes S/H from farm auctions for a pittance, and they're bigger,
quieter, dead easy to service (buy a whole new GX120 at the next farm
auction!) and I suspect use less fuel too.


I have heard Honda is the name to buy for generators, is that so?

What is a farm auction and can anyone (i.e. non-farmers) go?

Thanks.


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On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:09:51 +0100, "gazz" wrote:

they are all the same internaly, 50cc 2 stroke engine, small genny head,
it's all one casting, so when the engine dies, you chuck it away, the output
is 'regulated' by a simple capacitor and of course the governer that keeps
it at the right speed, but that's all thats really needed,


So all makes are more or less equal?

the 650 watt output is for a resistive load (tugsten/halogen light bulb,
simple heater etc) for motors the output is pretty low, think 350 watts has
been mentioned,


So when the other poster mentioned 350W it's all to do with power
factor? So it might not be as useful as the figures first suggest?

Apparantly the 4 stroke versions of this genny are noisier, and use the same
ammount of fuel as they have an engine twice the size, but about the same
output,


Why do the bigger engines have the same output? Are they less
efficient?

the only thing the little 2 stroke gennies dont like is being lightly
loaded, they 4 stroke... i.e. missing every other firing stroke... that does
make them sound louder, when they have a load on them they purr along...
well sort of, but that's due to the cheapo carb that has to be set so it
dosent lean out at full load, and hence is a bit rich at low load,


That's interesting, the other post suggested they liked being run
lightly, but perhaps that was to do with the power factor as you have
already mentioned?

Why should running with little load cause them to misfire?

Thanks again.
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On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:36:40 +0100, Ian White
wrote:

All in all, the "800W" genny has proved a very cost-effective way to get
through the occasional power cut, and the good performance with power
tools was an unexpected bonus.

It has now joined that annoying class of cheap and cheerful tools that
stubbornly refuse to stop working, so I can't justify buying something
better.


That sounds like a glowing recommendation!

Some other internet post suggested these were unreliable. They also
seem to be disposable because few spares are available. I expect that
is because labour charges to service the generator would cost more
than a new generator.

Another post suggested that if they blew, they had to be thrown away.

How long have you had yours?

I only expect to use it, like you, for central heating in a power cut.
Though I don't know whether it would be too noisy and upset the
neighbours at night?

Hopefully we won't have many power cuts to find out though.
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Ian White wrote:

It has now joined that annoying class of cheap and cheerful tools that
stubbornly refuse to stop working, so I can't justify buying something
better.


Heh. That's my experience too.

I bought one for odd jobs on the farm and it has become indispensable.
It supplies all the lights in the barn during harvest for example and
runs all night on one tank of fuel. I have a four stroke open frame
generator but use it only when I really, really need to power 2KW plus.

The four strokes are a bit of pain because they actually require
servicing. Two strokes just run and run.
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Stephen wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:18:59 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
wrote:

Didn't choose it, didn't buy it, avoid using the thing, but yes, I've
got one.


You don't sound too keen! Why do you avoid it?

It's better than not having one. OTOH, I can pick up far better Honda
4 strokes S/H from farm auctions for a pittance, and they're bigger,
quieter, dead easy to service (buy a whole new GX120 at the next farm
auction!) and I suspect use less fuel too.


I have heard Honda is the name to buy for generators, is that so?


Visit your local hire shop, where plant is used & abused on a daily basis by
hirers who neither know nor care about looking after it. Its rare to find a
petrol genny or indeed anything else that doesn't have a Honda engine.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


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Stephen wrote:

That's interesting, the other post suggested they liked being run
lightly,


Err no, you misunderstood it. My post suggested that you need to run
them at at least 10% load and that you can't count on them to deliver
more than half the rated output at maximum load. IIRC the manual that
came with the generator suggested a minimum 100W load, but I find that
they are happy at 60W, powering a single lightbulb.



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"Stephen" wrote in message
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On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:09:51 +0100, "gazz" wrote:

they are all the same internaly,


So all makes are more or less equal?


yup, only differance seems to be if you get one with a 12 volt charging
outlet or not, that's rated at about 8 amps, and is only for charging, as
without a battery on it the voltage will be anything upto 18 volts, some
people hoped to run a 12 volt light directly off the charging output, and
found it blew the bulb.

at the end of the day it's a cheaply made disposable generator, you will be
hard pushed to get spares for them, and if you can it's just not worth it,
when you can get a whole new un for 50 quid,

the 650 watt output is for a resistive load


So when the other poster mentioned 350W it's all to do with power
factor? So it might not be as useful as the figures first suggest?


yup that's it, the box and adverts rave about the outputs, but like most
things it's marketing stretching the truth, only when you read the chinglish
destructions inside the box does it mention the different acceptable outputs
for different kinds of loads,

Depends what you hoped to run off it really, i have used my sds drill on
mine, not sure of the wattage, prolly around 500 or so, i just plugged it in
and ran with it, worst thatll happen is i'd stall the engine or trip the
overload breaker.

Apparantly the 4 stroke versions of this genny are noisier, and use the
same
ammount of fuel as they have an engine twice the size, but about the same
output,


Why do the bigger engines have the same output? Are they less
efficient?


2 stroke and 4 stroke differances, a 2 stroke firing every revolution can
output more power than a 4 stroke that fires every 2nd rev of the same size,
very common with model airplanes, they'll say 'this model can be used with a
..40 2 stroke or a .60 4 stroke engine.

the only thing the little 2 stroke gennies dont like is being lightly
loaded, they 4 stroke.


Why should running with little load cause them to misfire?


it's due to the simple carb that dosent have enough different speed circuits
in it, so it's set up to be the right mixture at high load, as running lean
then will destroy the engine pretty fast,
hence at low loads it's running rich, and a 2 stroke running rich will miss
every 2nd rev.. hence the term 4 stroking, as theres too much fuel to
ignite,

if you are sure you'll not run a high load, you can turn the mixture screw
on the carb right in, and it'll run sweetly at low loads, but you must
remember to wind the mixture screw back out 2 turns when you use a high
load,

my genny lives in a locker in my motorhome now, it only runs the charger, a
load of about 200 watts, so i have adjusted the mixture to make the engine
run sweet at that load, it will just handle the laptoprs psu and the vinyl
cutter, but anything else and it'll complain, but as everything else runs
off 12 volts, or needs more than 1000 watts mains, the genny never powers
them.

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Stephen wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:36:40 +0100, Ian White
wrote:

All in all, the "800W" genny has proved a very cost-effective way to get
through the occasional power cut, and the good performance with power
tools was an unexpected bonus.

It has now joined that annoying class of cheap and cheerful tools that
stubbornly refuse to stop working, so I can't justify buying something
better.


That sounds like a glowing recommendation!


Well worth a punt, at least.

Some other internet post suggested these were unreliable. They also
seem to be disposable because few spares are available. I expect that
is because labour charges to service the generator would cost more
than a new generator.

Another post suggested that if they blew, they had to be thrown away.

How long have you had yours?


About four years, though it has only been used very intermittently. If
I'd been looking for a long life while actually running, I'd buy a real
one.

I only expect to use it, like you, for central heating in a power cut.
Though I don't know whether it would be too noisy and upset the
neighbours at night?

It only needs to be run intermittently to 'top up' the CH, fridge and
freezer, so at most you might only be running it for short intervals
through the day and in the evening. If you're wanting it to do
significantly more than that, this probably isn't the generator you
need.

Mostly the neighbours would be jealous. There's no generator quiet
enough to prevent that :-)


Hopefully we won't have many power cuts to find out though.


It isn't in the specification, but ours seems to have been quite good at
keeping power cuts away... so far.


--
Ian White
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gazz wrote:

Depends what you hoped to run off it really, i have used my sds drill on
mine, not sure of the wattage, prolly around 500 or so, i just plugged it in
and ran with it, worst thatll happen is i'd stall the engine or trip the
overload breaker.


The worst that will happen is that you will melt the 13A socket. Been
there, done that.
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On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:19:49 +0100, Clint Sharp wrote:

If it's not an inverter type then it has to be pure sine wave doesn't it
or am I missing something?


The waveform can become distorted by the nature and size of the load.
Think resistance of the windings, the current flowing through them
and any reactance in the load.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Aldi generator

I had one for charging batteries (it has a 12volt output)
and running a hoover,

It conked out cos I left it running in the rain without a cover,
Aldi gave me my money back without a quibble,
I bought another which was nicked,
dont think it had a serial number on it.

It was a bit noisy,
I guess the quiet hondas they use on market stalls are more expensive.

As with most Aldi tools it's cheap,
chinese engineering and german quality control,
(as someone on this group once put it)

They're good for occasional use
but not as good as more expensive ones.

[g]


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If those small 2-stroke gennies really are "all the same", it will
probably run a 2kg-class SDS drill, a 500W conventional electric drill or
a 4.5in angle grinder quite comfortably. At least, ours does and I've no
reason to suppose it's anything special.

It also runs the OFCH (fan, pump and controller), a small fridge or a
separate freezer - only one at a time because of the startup loads, but
none of them needs to run continuously. More recently we replaced the
separates with a larger fridge-freezer which really makes the genny grunt
on startup; in our case the generator still wins out, but YMMV.

All in all, the "800W" genny has proved a very cost-effective way to get
through the occasional power cut, and the good performance with power
tools was an unexpected bonus.

It has now joined that annoying class of cheap and cheerful tools that
stubbornly refuse to stop working, so I can't justify buying something
better.


--
Ian White


That's broadly my experience too. That said, I'd probably pick up a bigger
honda if I came across one at a farm sale, as an earlier poster suggested.

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On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:31:09 +0100, (Steve Firth)
wrote:

Err no, you misunderstood it. My post suggested that you need to run
them at at least 10% load and that you can't count on them to deliver
more than half the rated output at maximum load. IIRC the manual that
came with the generator suggested a minimum 100W load, but I find that
they are happy at 60W, powering a single lightbulb.


Sorry, I misunderstood or misread you.

So below 10% load they do the 4 stoke firing because of the rich
mixture as discussed in the other post?

I suppose you could keep a 60w bulb connected in addition to anything
else, to make sure that the generator is always loaded?

Like everyone else here, I was thinking of using one to power a couple
of lights and the boiler during a power cut. It sounds as though it
would play up if connected to the boiler alone, especially if the
thermostat was satisfied but OTOH when the pump is running, I guess
that would take about 40W so perhaps it would be ok but only until the
house warmed up. I guess I'll have to hope the power cut is at night
so I have a light on too

When you say you can't count on anything above half the rated output
is that because of power factor considerations? Could I run 600w of a
resistive load, say lights? Is the 300W limit only for inductive
loads? Or is it there another reason that I could only use 300W? It's
a bit naughty printing 850w on the box if it can only manage a third
of that.

Thanks again.
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On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:23:01 +0100, Ian White
wrote:

It only needs to be run intermittently to 'top up' the CH, fridge and
freezer


How would you know when they required a top-up? Just plug the freezer
in for ten minutes each hour? Is the genny happy with any start-up
surge?

Mostly the neighbours would be jealous. There's no generator quiet
enough to prevent that :-)


Do all the neighbours come round when they find you are the only house
with lights on?
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On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:52:15 +0100, "george (dicegeorge)"
wrote:

It conked out cos I left it running in the rain without a cover,


So it needs to be sheltered but ventilated?

I bought another which was nicked,


I guess it's best to run it in the back garden under some form of
cover, to prevent theft? I wonder whether the noise would attract
thieves? OTOH you know it's gone when the lights go out ;(

As with most Aldi tools it's cheap,


£55 at the moment. Is that good?

chinese engineering and german quality control,
(as someone on this group once put it)


I didn't quite understand that. Is German QC very high? If so, that
sounds good.
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On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:40:13 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

The waveform can become distorted by the nature and size of the load.
Think resistance of the windings, the current flowing through them
and any reactance in the load.


That was too technical for me! Are there likely to be any undesirable
consequences in real life use?

I forgot to ask, does the Aldi generator come with any MCB or RCD or
other protection built in? If not, is it a good idea to use a plug in
RCD and connect the chassis to an earth rod, or is all that covered in
the instructions? Does the neutral need to be tied to earth too?

Thanks.


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Stephen wrote:


So below 10% load they do the 4 stoke firing because of the rich
mixture as discussed in the other post?


Not in my experience but they do occasionally misfire which might be the
same thing.

I suppose you could keep a 60w bulb connected in addition to anything
else, to make sure that the generator is always loaded?


That's what I do, even if it is daylight.
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On 27 June, 13:52, Stephen wrote:

Didn't choose it, didn't buy it, avoid using the thing, but yes, I've
got one.


You don't sound too keen! Why do you avoid it?


Because I have better ones.

If I didn't have better ones, I would use it.


I have heard Honda is the name to buy for generators, is that so?


Small, new ones, yes. Onan are worth looking at for big stuff, as is
almost anything in matt green.


What is a farm auction and can anyone (i.e. non-farmers) go?


Try a copy of "Farmer's Guardian" etc., or just adverts from your
local auctioneers. These days they're even on the web.

They're usual a semi-regular event, maybe monthly or quarterly, in
some convenient location such as an empty factory unit (indoor) or
just a field with parking, near the local market town where the
auctioneer is based. The other sort is when a particular farm or
business is being sold off, then they're usually on-site. Mixed sales
are usually Saturdays, businesses are mid-week.

For most of them, just turn up early and register to get a bidder's
number. They usually claim to want to see 14 bank references and your
inside leg measurement, but in practice then provided it's a small
value item and you're paying cash, then you're OK just turning up. You
can still buy a new combine harvester on nothing more than a
handshake, but only if your family have tilled the same land since
1640 and your grandfathers both shared a trench near Ypres. Don't
expect to get cash from a cash machine near the auction site, because
farm auctions will infamously empty the whole town's!

Then wander the numbered lots and make a note of what you're
interested in, and how much you'd pay for it. Do this now, because you
won't have time later. Most auctions will have several of the same
item and you won't get the one you wanted, so look at them all and
price each according to condition and desirability.

Depending on local traditions, you _might_ get to fire up the worn-
looking chainsaw and see if it starts, but that's unusual. Generally
you're buying untested, at your risk. It's likely to be cheap, but
risky. I have bought my share of turkeys before, so caveat emptor.

When the auction starts a loose cluster of blokes in scruffy Barbours
will gather around a couple of blokes in slightly cleaner Barbours.
These are the bidders and auctioneers, who usually walk around from
lot to lot in order (but not always, so keep your ears open). Almost
everything there will be bought by the scruffiest half-dozen of these
blokes. One of them owns a third of the pigs in Berkshire, sold
another third last week for cash (now in his pocket) and smells like
he still has the remainder of them somewhere in another pocket. Later
he will haggle for a quid over a roll of chicken wire, then drop 20
grand on a tractor without blinking. The auctioneer knows this and is
watching those guys closely, so if you want a hope in hell of bidding,
you need to be standing in his line of sight near to them. Auctioneers
are there to sell things and quickly, they're not there to sell things
to you in particular, so it's your job to get where you're noticeable.

You bid by waving a hand, shouting or flapping your bidder number. You
won't buy a tractor by accident, this is their day job, they're good
at it.

When you've won it, you shout out your bidder number. Which you
already have handy, or else you look like a right numpty.

When they've sold the first few lots, a second auctioneer usually
starts selling the next row along. Now it gets awkward, which is why
you need your list of lot numbers. Keep an eye on both and make sure
you're in the right crowd at the right time.

Every few dozen lots, an auctioneer's runner takes the completed sale
list to the cash office. Once they've typed it up, you're quite at
liberty to pay for what's yours and (usually) collect it and take it
home. Obviously this depends on whether you need a fork-lift, and
whether the auction crowd has left space for you to get to it. Some
tact is called for, but there will be a queue at the office later.
Hang onto the paperwork and the paper lot numbers on every load in
your vehicle, because they'll check them on the way out.

Once you've won the bid, the item is your problem. So if it's the
Norris plane in the toolbox of mixed tat, keep your eye on it. Things
do sometimes jump from box to box...

It's considered rude to leave a lot behind. Even more so to leave half
a lot behind. Particularly if it's the drum of old sheep dip that you
bought included in the mixed lot of tractor seats. This happens
surprisingly often, but it is yours now, so you get to get rid of it.

Taking a lot home is your problem. This requires you to have vehicle
to transport it, a barn to put it in when you get home, and enough of
a lift to get it onto your transport. However you are at a place full
of burly farmer types in a cheery mood, and if it's that big a sale
they'll usually have a fork lift for your truck.

My last sale was in a field, so wasn't the driest ever. I bought a
steel roller shutter garage door, a 2" petrol water pump (Honda
engine), a 5' long two-handed felling saw and a four-caster skateboard
and still had change from £20...
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:47:32 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley wrote:

They're usual a semi-regular event, maybe monthly or quarterly, in
some convenient location such as an empty factory unit (indoor) or
just a field with parking, near the local market town where the
auctioneer is based.


Normally regular as you say and frequently part of the local
livestock auction mart, not just a stand alone machinery auction.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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