Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little music
outside.

I've seen wireless ones which transmit from the hi-fi, but they need
plugging in to the mains, which rather defeats the object - no power on the
deck.

They don't have to look like rocks or anything.

SWMBO has some wireless headphone which plug into the 'phones' socket on the
hi-fi (Sony).

So, question is; Can I just use a speaker extension lead of say 10 metres
which will plug into the 'phones' socket and connect the other end to some
outdoor speakers? Like these?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221776 I could build a box for
them out of deck boards

Would I lose anything over the cable length, what ohms do I need & how would
I connect the cable to the speakers - bearing in mind I am to electronics
what Colonel Custer is to Indian fighting.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Jun 21, 10:52*am, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little music
outside.

I've seen wireless ones which transmit from the hi-fi, but they need
plugging in to the mains, which rather defeats the object - no power on the
deck.

They don't have to look like rocks or anything.

SWMBO has some wireless headphone which plug into the 'phones' socket on the
hi-fi (Sony).

So, question is; *Can I just use a speaker extension lead of say 10 metres
which will plug into the 'phones' socket and connect the other end to some
outdoor speakers?

in most cases no, as most hifis have resistors on the 'phones output.
You'd probably need to connect to the speaker conns at the back, and
have a switch to turn them on or off.


*Like these?http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221776*I could build a box for
them out of deck boards

Would I lose anything over the cable length,

over 10m the power loss is trivial

what ohms do I need &

most hifis use 8 ohm speakers. BUT any time you're running 2 sets of
speakers at once you'd need to change the impedance you use. Simplest
optin is to use a switch to switch between indoor or outdoor speakers,
then 8 ohms will be fine.

If you look on the back of the hifi, it might say 4 ohm or 6ohm. If
so, 8 ohms is still fine but 4 or 6 would give you maximum available
power output.

how would
I connect the cable to the speakers - bearing in mind I am to electronics
what Colonel Custer is to Indian fighting.

amp L+ to speaker L+
amp R+ to speaker R+
amp L- to speaker L-
amp R- to speaker R-
hard to go wrong - just get both speakers connected the same way round
or you lose bass.

And dont point them in opposite directions or ditto - or if you do
want to, reverse the wires on one of them.

A 6" 1 way driver with random cabinet isnt gong to equal well designed
hifi speakers in sound quality, but hopefully they'll do. Can't say
I've even seen hifi quality waterproof speakers.


NT

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little music
outside.

I've seen wireless ones which transmit from the hi-fi, but they need
plugging in to the mains, which rather defeats the object - no power on the
deck.

They don't have to look like rocks or anything.

SWMBO has some wireless headphone which plug into the 'phones' socket on the
hi-fi (Sony).

So, question is; Can I just use a speaker extension lead of say 10 metres
which will plug into the 'phones' socket and connect the other end to some
outdoor speakers? Like these?

Not really. The phones socket usually has resistors connected to limit
the power delivered to the headphones.

If your hifi doesn't have terminals at the back for a second pair of
speakers, then you should consider getting a speaker switch box.

e.g. http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97927

This box allows you to switch both pairs of speakers on at once. This
might cause a problem for your amp, but probably won't unless you turn
your hi-fi up to max.

Your existing speakers will most likely be eight ohms and your new
speakers should be likewise.


http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221776 I could build a box for
them out of deck boards


These would be fine.

Would I lose anything over the cable length,

Not really anything to worry about as long as you use reasonably thick
cable. At least 0.75mm2 (6Amp) 2-core mains flex.

If you buy speaker flex, you can run it under the carpet. 42-strand
would be OK.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=115110

Part No N20AP

what ohms do I need

see above

& how would
I connect the cable to the speakers - bearing in mind I am to electronics
what Colonel Custer is to Indian fighting.



You might need to solder the cables to the speakers or you might need to
crimp on a Lucar spade or the speakers might have screw terminals or
clamp terminals

NT wrote:

On Jun 21, 10:52 am, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little
music outside.

Let's hope that your neighbours take umbrage and come round and stuff
the speakers where they belong.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little music
outside.


I hope you don't have any near neighbours. At one place we lived back in
England the neighbours regularly inflicted their music on everyone else
who were relaxing outdoors. Quick way to fall out with the neighbours.

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

On 21 June, 12:37, Owain wrote:
NT wrote:
A 6" 1 way driver with random cabinet isnt gong to equal well designed
hifi speakers in sound quality, but hopefully they'll do. Can't say
I've even seen hifi quality waterproof speakers.

Not exactly hifi but Technomad seem to be able to take some abuse.

The Rockustics Rockolyth probably sounds pretty good but then at that
price tag...

Now *they* sound like they go up to eleven.

In article , David in Normandy
scribeth thus
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little music
outside.


I hope you don't have any near neighbours. At one place we lived back in
England the neighbours regularly inflicted their music on everyone else
who were relaxing outdoors. Quick way to fall out with the neighbours.


Indeed and as much as I like music and hi-fi I also like silence from
time to time so I keep the sounds inside or in the car or if I want to
go outside then use phones.

Mind you at the moment there are a number of those "rats of the air" AKA
pigeons with the most boring birdsong invented;!...


--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:

Mind you at the moment there are a number of those "rats of the air" AKA
pigeons with the most boring birdsong invented;!...



I've heard them chattering too; I think they may be terrorists planning
to take over the government because I kept overhearing them talking
about a "Coo".

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

On 21 June, 10:52, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little music
outside.

I've seen wireless ones which transmit from the hi-fi, but they need
plugging in to the mains, which rather defeats the object - no power on the
deck.

Hi Dave, have you seen these wireless ones? They're rechargeable, so
they don't need mains, just need taking in to recharge every now and
then:
http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/new-a...ers/index.html
Problem: that stockist is currently sold out.

Cheers!

Martin

In message , David in Normandy
writes
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little
music outside.


I hope you don't have any near neighbours. At one place we lived back
in England the neighbours regularly inflicted their music on everyone
else who were relaxing outdoors. Quick way to fall out with the
neighbours.


I got

"Can you turn that music back on please, we were listening to that"

the other week

--
bumsnase

On Jun 21, 11:24*am, Dave Osborne wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little music
outside.

I've seen wireless ones which transmit from the hi-fi, but they need
plugging in to the mains, which rather defeats the object - no power on the
deck.

They don't have to look like rocks or anything.

SWMBO has some wireless headphone which plug into the 'phones' socket on the
hi-fi (Sony).

So, question is; *Can I just use a speaker extension lead of say 10 metres
which will plug into the 'phones' socket and connect the other end to some
outdoor speakers? *Like these?

Not really. The phones socket usually has resistors connected to limit
the power delivered to the headphones.

If your hifi doesn't have terminals at the back for a second pair of
speakers, then you should consider getting a speaker switch box.

e.g.http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97927

This box allows you to switch both pairs of speakers on at once. This
might cause a problem for your amp, but probably won't unless you turn
your hi-fi up to max.

Your existing speakers will most likely be eight ohms and your new
speakers should be likewise.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221776*I could build a box for
them out of deck boards

These would be fine.

Would I lose anything over the cable length,

Not really anything to worry about as long as you use reasonably thick
cable. At least 0.75mm2 (6Amp) 2-core mains flex.

If you buy speaker flex, you can run it under the carpet. 42-strand
would be OK.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=115110

Part No N20AP

what ohms do I need

see above

& how would

I connect the cable to the speakers - bearing in mind I am to electronics
what Colonel Custer is to Indian fighting.

You might need to solder the cables to the speakers or you might need to
crimp on a Lucar spade or the speakers might have screw terminals or
clamp terminals


I think bell wire would be better. 0.5mm^2 bell wire has a Vdrop of
88mV/m/A. At 8w rms (8v 1A) thats 1% of the speaker voltage, or a 2%
power reduction at the speaker.

1.5mm^2 is rated to 21A with 70C insulation, so again bell wire would
be more than capable.

I would not use stranded wire (speaker wire) outdoors unless really
needed, as its vastly more vulnerable to corrosion.


NT

The Medway Handyman wrote:

SWMBO has some wireless headphone which plug into the 'phones' socket on the
hi-fi (Sony).

So, question is; Can I just use a speaker extension lead of say 10 metres
which will plug into the 'phones' socket and connect the other end to some
outdoor speakers? Like these?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221776 I could build a box for
them out of deck boards

You can only really use the phones socket to drive small loads like a
set of phones, or another amplifier which could in turn drive the
speakers. A feed from the main speaker terminals would be best (better
still of the amp directly supports two outputs - some do.

The speakers you link to claim to be "twin cone" - which suggests a
construction not unlike some car speakers with a tweeter mounted in the
throat of the woofer - so a simple box is all they need really - they
probably don't need a separate tweeter and crossover.

You would need to make a proper enclosure for them. Since this is for
use outside an fully enclosed "infinite baffle" box would be best (i.e.
no reflex ports etc). Perhaps a WBP ply box that you could clad with
deck boards to make it blend in better. Seal all the joins with
silicone, and stuff it with some wadding.

Would I lose anything over the cable length, what ohms do I need & how would
I connect the cable to the speakers - bearing in mind I am to electronics
what Colonel Custer is to Indian fighting.

I would use some flat T&E so you can dress it neatly where you want it.
1.5mm^2 ought to be adequate.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"David in Normandy" wrote in message
...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a
little music
outside.


I hope you don't have any near neighbours. At one place we lived
back in
England the neighbours regularly inflicted their music on everyone
else
who were relaxing outdoors. Quick way to fall out with the
neighbours.

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

Garden hose usually sorts out that sort of pollution G

AWEM

John Rumm wrote:




You would need to make a proper enclosure for them. Since this is for
use outside an fully enclosed "infinite baffle" box would be best (i.e.
no reflex ports etc). Perhaps a WBP ply box that you could clad with
deck boards to make it blend in better. Seal all the joins with
silicone, and stuff it with some wadding.


I was going to say that, but then realised that as they are fully
sealed, any enclosure you put them in isn't going to affect the air
pressure on the rear of the cones, so sealing the enclosure and adding
wadding ain't gonna make a blind bit of difference ;-(

NT wrote:
On Jun 21, 11:24 am, Dave Osborne wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a
little music outside.

I've seen wireless ones which transmit from the hi-fi, but they need
plugging in to the mains, which rather defeats the object - no
power on the deck.

They don't have to look like rocks or anything.

SWMBO has some wireless headphone which plug into the 'phones'
socket on the hi-fi (Sony).

So, question is; Can I just use a speaker extension lead of say 10
metres which will plug into the 'phones' socket and connect the
other end to some outdoor speakers? Like these?

Not really. The phones socket usually has resistors connected to
limit the power delivered to the headphones.

If your hifi doesn't have terminals at the back for a second pair of
speakers, then you should consider getting a speaker switch box.

e.g.http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97927

This box allows you to switch both pairs of speakers on at once. This
might cause a problem for your amp, but probably won't unless you
turn your hi-fi up to max.

Your existing speakers will most likely be eight ohms and your new
speakers should be likewise.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221776 I could build a
box for them out of deck boards

These would be fine.

Would I lose anything over the cable length,

Not really anything to worry about as long as you use reasonably
thick cable. At least 0.75mm2 (6Amp) 2-core mains flex.

If you buy speaker flex, you can run it under the carpet. 42-strand
would be OK.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=115110

Part No N20AP

what ohms do I need

see above

& how would

I connect the cable to the speakers - bearing in mind I am to
electronics what Colonel Custer is to Indian fighting.

You might need to solder the cables to the speakers or you might
need to crimp on a Lucar spade or the speakers might have screw
terminals or clamp terminals


I think bell wire would be better. 0.5mm^2 bell wire has a Vdrop of
88mV/m/A. At 8w rms (8v 1A) thats 1% of the speaker voltage, or a 2%
power reduction at the speaker.

1.5mm^2 is rated to 21A with 70C insulation, so again bell wire would
be more than capable.

I would not use stranded wire (speaker wire) outdoors unless really
needed, as its vastly more vulnerable to corrosion.

Sorry, should have said, they will live indoors & be taken outside only as &
when needed.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message , Dave Osborne
writes
John Rumm wrote:



You would need to make a proper enclosure for them. Since this is
for use outside an fully enclosed "infinite baffle" box would be best
(i.e. no reflex ports etc). Perhaps a WBP ply box that you could clad
with deck boards to make it blend in better. Seal all the joins with
silicone, and stuff it with some wadding.


I was going to say that, but then realised that as they are fully
sealed, any enclosure you put them in isn't going to affect the air
pressure on the rear of the cones, so sealing the enclosure and adding
wadding ain't gonna make a blind bit of difference ;-(


How important is this all gong to be if you're listening to the birdy
song with the wind whistling through the decking ?


--

bumsnase

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 05:52:48 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:

I think bell wire would be better. 0.5mm^2 bell wire has a Vdrop of
88mV/m/A. At 8w rms (8v 1A) thats 1% of the speaker voltage,

TMH says cable length is 10m so you have 10 * 88mV loss for your
notional 1A current or 10%. And it's not as simple as power transfer
you have a mass attached to a coil moving in a magnetic field. If the
impedance of the source is high the mass will tend to keep moving
when the signal is removed rather than be damped. This probably isn't
an problem in this low power, Lo-Fi, application but reducing the
resistance (ie fitting more copper) made a noticeable difference to
my Hi-Fi, much more controlled bass.

1.5mm twin core mains flex has enough copper and is nicely flexable
for installation and is fairly robust.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Osborne wrote:
John Rumm wrote:




You would need to make a proper enclosure for them. Since this is for
use outside an fully enclosed "infinite baffle" box would be best
(i.e. no reflex ports etc). Perhaps a WBP ply box that you could clad
with deck boards to make it blend in better. Seal all the joins with
silicone, and stuff it with some wadding.


I was going to say that, but then realised that as they are fully
sealed, any enclosure you put them in isn't going to affect the air
pressure on the rear of the cones, so sealing the enclosure and adding
wadding ain't gonna make a blind bit of difference ;-(

I did not think they were fully sealed. Shame if they are - it would
suggest they are going to sound pretty poor.

Have a look at the data sheet:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Media/PDFs/A80HJ_Datasheet.pdf

The side view suggests the rear of the main driver is open, which would
require a proper box construction (and also mean that getting a decent
bass response from them ought to be possible)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The Medway Handyman wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 21, 11:24 am, Dave Osborne wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a
little music outside.
I've seen wireless ones which transmit from the hi-fi, but they need
plugging in to the mains, which rather defeats the object - no
power on the deck.
They don't have to look like rocks or anything.
SWMBO has some wireless headphone which plug into the 'phones'
socket on the hi-fi (Sony).
So, question is; Can I just use a speaker extension lead of say 10
metres which will plug into the 'phones' socket and connect the
other end to some outdoor speakers? Like these?
Not really. The phones socket usually has resistors connected to
limit the power delivered to the headphones.

If your hifi doesn't have terminals at the back for a second pair of
speakers, then you should consider getting a speaker switch box.

e.g.http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97927

This box allows you to switch both pairs of speakers on at once. This
might cause a problem for your amp, but probably won't unless you
turn your hi-fi up to max.

Your existing speakers will most likely be eight ohms and your new
speakers should be likewise.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221776 I could build a
box for them out of deck boards
These would be fine.

Would I lose anything over the cable length,
Not really anything to worry about as long as you use reasonably
thick cable. At least 0.75mm2 (6Amp) 2-core mains flex.

If you buy speaker flex, you can run it under the carpet. 42-strand
would be OK.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=115110

Part No N20AP

what ohms do I need

see above

& how would

I connect the cable to the speakers - bearing in mind I am to
electronics what Colonel Custer is to Indian fighting.
You might need to solder the cables to the speakers or you might
need to crimp on a Lucar spade or the speakers might have screw
terminals or clamp terminals

I think bell wire would be better. 0.5mm^2 bell wire has a Vdrop of
88mV/m/A. At 8w rms (8v 1A) thats 1% of the speaker voltage, or a 2%
power reduction at the speaker.

1.5mm^2 is rated to 21A with 70C insulation, so again bell wire would
be more than capable.

I would not use stranded wire (speaker wire) outdoors unless really
needed, as its vastly more vulnerable to corrosion.

Sorry, should have said, they will live indoors & be taken outside only as &
when needed.

In which case there is no need to splash out (!) on water proof speaker
drivers. Any ordinary set would be fine.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dave Osborne wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a
little music outside.

I've seen wireless ones which transmit from the hi-fi, but they need
plugging in to the mains, which rather defeats the object - no power
on the deck.

They don't have to look like rocks or anything.

SWMBO has some wireless headphone which plug into the 'phones'
socket on the hi-fi (Sony).

So, question is; Can I just use a speaker extension lead of say 10
metres which will plug into the 'phones' socket and connect the
other end to some outdoor speakers? Like these?

Not really. The phones socket usually has resistors connected to limit
the power delivered to the headphones.

If your hifi doesn't have terminals at the back for a second pair of
speakers, then you should consider getting a speaker switch box.

e.g. http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97927

This box allows you to switch both pairs of speakers on at once. This
might cause a problem for your amp, but probably won't unless you turn
your hi-fi up to max.

That looks good. It will mainly be 'either' speakers not both

Your existing speakers will most likely be eight ohms and your new
speakers should be likewise.

It says 6 ohms on the back of the hi-fi.


http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221776 I could build a
box for them out of deck boards


These would be fine.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little
music outside.

I've seen wireless ones which transmit from the hi-fi, but they need
plugging in to the mains, which rather defeats the object - no power
on the deck.

They don't have to look like rocks or anything.

SWMBO has some wireless headphone which plug into the 'phones' socket
on the hi-fi (Sony).

So, question is; Can I just use a speaker extension lead of say 10
metres which will plug into the 'phones' socket and connect the other
end to some outdoor speakers? Like these?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221776 I could build a
box for them out of deck boards

Would I lose anything over the cable length, what ohms do I need &
how would I connect the cable to the speakers - bearing in mind I am
to electronics what Colonel Custer is to Indian fighting.

After reading the replies so far, I have to ask - how big is the garden and
how considerate of your neighbours are you? - because the answer to those
two questions could save you much cash. This group is tremendous and I have
a lot of respect for the very knowledgeable people who frequent it and offer
very good advice - but I can't help thinking that, on ocassions (this being
one of them) things are taken a bit too seriously.

First of all, you're going to be playing music into the open air, which I
would imagine is never going to be "acoustically brilliant", so I would
question the need to bother (specifically) about woofers, tweeters, baffle
boxes and so forth.

Secondly, unless you have no neighbours nearby (or just don't care about
your neighbours), you'll never be able to play your music very loud so you
don't need to worry about power levels or cable sizes.

We live in an "average" semi-detached chalet-style (dormer) bungalow on an
"average" housing estate. We have an Onkyo TX-SV343 AV Receiver/Amplifier
under the telly that has outputs for a second set of speakers, so I bought
this
http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-power/2x4...00m/dp/CB00399
and installed a couple of runs out to the speaker positions. I then
terminated the ends with "Lucar" connectors in a small waterproof housing so
that the speakers can be connected/disconnected at will. The speakers
themselves have a keyhole at the back, hang on a single screw, and are
actually two Creative Cambridge Soundworks speakers from a DTT2200 system
that isn't used on my PC anymo
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg

I can listen to Led Zeppelin, Free, The Who etc., etc., at levels loud
enough to annoy my neighbours without distortion if I so wished, but of
course, I don't as I'm not like that. The point is, we have perfectly good
music out in the garden for when we're working out there or when we're
BBQing, all for just a few quid, and all without going into degree-level
sound engineering - and it's been working perfectly well for the last 4
years.

Pete

In message , John
Rumm writes
Dave Osborne wrote:
John Rumm wrote:




You would need to make a proper enclosure for them. Since this is
for use outside an fully enclosed "infinite baffle" box would be
best (i.e. no reflex ports etc). Perhaps a WBP ply box that you
could clad with deck boards to make it blend in better. Seal all the
joins with silicone, and stuff it with some wadding.

I was going to say that, but then realised that as they are fully
sealed, any enclosure you put them in isn't going to affect the air
pressure on the rear of the cones, so sealing the enclosure and adding
wadding ain't gonna make a blind bit of difference ;-(

I did not think they were fully sealed. Shame if they are - it would
suggest they are going to sound pretty poor.

Have a look at the data sheet:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Media/PDFs/A80HJ_Datasheet.pdf

The side view suggests the rear of the main driver is open, which would
require a proper box construction (and also mean that getting a decent
bass response from them ought to be possible)


'Kinell

the birdy song sounds just as good through a polythene bag ...


--
bumsnase

John Rumm wrote:
Dave Osborne wrote:
John Rumm wrote:




You would need to make a proper enclosure for them. Since this is for
use outside an fully enclosed "infinite baffle" box would be best
(i.e. no reflex ports etc). Perhaps a WBP ply box that you could clad
with deck boards to make it blend in better. Seal all the joins with
silicone, and stuff it with some wadding.


I was going to say that, but then realised that as they are fully
sealed, any enclosure you put them in isn't going to affect the air
pressure on the rear of the cones, so sealing the enclosure and adding
wadding ain't gonna make a blind bit of difference ;-(

I did not think they were fully sealed. Shame if they are - it would
suggest they are going to sound pretty poor.

Have a look at the data sheet:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Media/PDFs/A80HJ_Datasheet.pdf

The side view suggests the rear of the main driver is open, which would
require a proper box construction (and also mean that getting a decent
bass response from them ought to be possible)


Ah, my bad. I didn't look at the pdf. In fact, I thought I was quoting
the description when I said they were "fully sealed". It does seem from
the pdf spec that they are open at the back, so would indeed benefit
from a properly constructed enclosure for enhanced bass response.

Getting dimensions right is going to be luck or trial-and-error though.

CPC sell wadding:

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/pr...sp?sku=LS00385


Indeed, CPC sell suitable speakers for a lot less than Maplin...

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/br...1000546+500001


or indeed, just buy a pair of these and be done with it:

http://cpc.farnell.com/sahara/105000...-wh/dp/LS03240

Pete Zahut wrote:

After reading the replies so far, I have to ask - how big is the garden and
how considerate of your neighbours are you? - because the answer to those
two questions could save you much cash. This group is tremendous and I have
a lot of respect for the very knowledgeable people who frequent it and offer
very good advice - but I can't help thinking that, on ocassions (this being
one of them) things are taken a bit too seriously.

I agree - but then again it would be a more tedious thread if one had to
wade through too much cruft regarding neighbourhood relations etc. One
hopes the OP can work out those aspects well enough for himself!

First of all, you're going to be playing music into the open air, which I
would imagine is never going to be "acoustically brilliant", so I would
question the need to bother (specifically) about woofers, tweeters, baffle
boxes and so forth.

It depends a bit on what you are after. There is a certain amount of
challenge in designing speaker systems that can produce a credible and
pleasing sound stage at low volume levels.

Most people will have experienced the unwelcome effects of a loud but
small radio etc playing in a garden, where the band pass filtered sound
from a small overdriven speaker seems to travel and penetrate. They may
find a quieter but slightly more weighty response from a well made pair
of speakers less irritating. (having to listen to music you don't want
to is irritating - having to listen to it being reproduced badly is even
more so IME)

Secondly, unless you have no neighbours nearby (or just don't care about
your neighbours), you'll never be able to play your music very loud so you
don't need to worry about power levels or cable sizes.

Cable sizes become slightly more important as distance increases. The
cable resistance becoming a significant proportion of the speakers
impedance is undesirable usually. I would also expect the TMH would have
ready access to a reel of T&E from stock, whereas he may not have more
traditional speaker cables in the van.

I can listen to Led Zeppelin, Free, The Who etc., etc., at levels loud
enough to annoy my neighbours without distortion if I so wished, but of
course, I don't as I'm not like that. The point is, we have perfectly good
music out in the garden for when we're working out there or when we're
BBQing, all for just a few quid, and all without going into degree-level
sound engineering - and it's been working perfectly well for the last 4
years.

Indeed. Also neighbours are likely to be more tolerant of music
accompanying the occasional BBQ or other special event than they will
for every day noise/music pollution. Especially if you invite them to
the BBQ!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Pete Zahut dont@bother wrote:
First of all, you're going to be playing music into the open air, which
I would imagine is never going to be "acoustically brilliant", so I
would question the need to bother (specifically) about woofers,
tweeters, baffle boxes and so forth.

You're quite wrong. A decent speaker in an open space is likely to sound
rather better than indoors.

--
*No hand signals. Driver on Viagra*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jun 21, 4:41*pm, John Rumm wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 21, 11:24 am, Dave Osborne wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a
little music outside.
I've seen wireless ones which transmit from the hi-fi, but they need
plugging in to the mains, which rather defeats the object - no
power on the deck.
They don't have to look like rocks or anything.
SWMBO has some wireless headphone which plug into the 'phones'
socket on the hi-fi (Sony).
So, question is; Can I just use a speaker extension lead of say 10
metres which will plug into the 'phones' socket and connect the
other end to some outdoor speakers? Like these?
Not really. The phones socket usually has resistors connected to
limit the power delivered to the headphones.

If your hifi doesn't have terminals at the back for a second pair of
speakers, then you should consider getting a speaker switch box.

e.g.http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97927

This box allows you to switch both pairs of speakers on at once. This
might cause a problem for your amp, but probably won't unless you
turn your hi-fi up to max.

Your existing speakers will most likely be eight ohms and your new
speakers should be likewise.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221776I could build a
box for them out of deck boards
These would be fine.

Would I lose anything over the cable length,
Not really anything to worry about as long as you use reasonably
thick cable. At least 0.75mm2 (6Amp) 2-core mains flex.

If you buy speaker flex, you can run it under the carpet. 42-strand
would be OK.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=115110

Part No N20AP

what ohms do I need

see above

& how would

I connect the cable to the speakers - bearing in mind I am to
electronics what Colonel Custer is to Indian fighting.
You might need to solder the cables to the speakers or you might
need to crimp on a Lucar spade or the speakers might have screw
terminals or clamp terminals

I think bell wire would be better. 0.5mm^2 bell wire has a Vdrop of
88mV/m/A. At 8w rms (8v 1A) thats 1% of the speaker voltage, or a 2%
power reduction at the speaker.

1.5mm^2 is rated to 21A with 70C insulation, so again bell wire would
be more than capable.

I would not use stranded wire (speaker wire) outdoors unless really
needed, as its vastly more vulnerable to corrosion.

Sorry, should have said, they will live indoors & be taken outside only as &
when needed.

In which case there is no need to splash out (!) on water proof speaker
drivers. Any ordinary set would be fine.

and free via freecycle etc


NT

On Jun 21, 4:19*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 05:52:48 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:
I think bell wire would be better. 0.5mm^2 bell wire has a Vdrop of
88mV/m/A. At 8w rms (8v 1A) thats 1% of the speaker voltage,

TMH says cable length is 10m so you have 10 * 88mV loss for your
notional 1A current or 10%.

right

And it's not as simple as power transfer
you have a mass attached to a coil moving in a magnetic field. If the
impedance of the source is high the mass will tend to keep moving
when the signal is removed rather than be damped. This probably isn't
an problem in this low power, Lo-Fi, application but reducing the
resistance (ie fitting more copper) made a noticeable difference to
my Hi-Fi, much more controlled bass.

yes, it affects damping slightly, but I cant imagine that being a
significant issue with a 6" speaker. Bear in mind the speaker itself
already has around 7 ohms of resistance, so another 0.8 ohm or so
makes little difference. (And the amplifier isnt the only source of
speaker damping.)


1.5mm twin core mains flex has enough copper and is nicely flexable
for installation and is fairly robust.

As theyre being carried in and out I'd second use of flex. 0.5mm^2 is
fine though.


NT

In message
, NT
writes

Sorry, should have said, they will live indoors & be taken outside
only as &
when needed.

In which case there is no need to splash out (!) on water proof speaker
drivers. Any ordinary set would be fine.

and free via freecycle etc

Freecycle?

Chatham High Street on a Sunday morning

Take your puck of the burnouts ...


--
bumsnase

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Pete Zahut dont@bother wrote:
First of all, you're going to be playing music into the open air,
which I would imagine is never going to be "acoustically brilliant",
so I would question the need to bother (specifically) about woofers,
tweeters, baffle boxes and so forth.

You're quite wrong. A decent speaker in an open space is likely to
sound rather better than indoors.

I would agree for something like Glastonbury, Knebworth or the like, but
we're talking a domestic back garden on a sunny afternoon here )

Of course, there's really no right or wrong answer as such because it's all
subjective. Someone I used to work with spent over 5-grand on his hifi
system but I only see a small difference between his and my 400-quid system
because my ears obviously don't hear what his ears do.

My speaker system for the garden, which can be taken in and out at will,
utilises about a tenner's-worth of figure-8 cable and two ex-PC speakers,
works brilliantly in my only-just-larger-than-a-postage-stamp garden.
Whether it would work for TMH or not, I don't know, but my reply was a sort
of tongue-in-cheek observation of how this group takes such an innocent
question and then over-engineer's the answer to the nth degree )

Pete Zahut wrote:

Whether it would work for TMH or not, I don't know, but my reply was a sort
of tongue-in-cheek observation of how this group takes such an innocent
question and then over-engineer's the answer to the nth degree )

What else do you expect from a bunch of engineers ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Pete Zahut dont@bother wrote:
You're quite wrong. A decent speaker in an open space is likely to
sound rather better than indoors.

I would agree for something like Glastonbury, Knebworth or the like, but
we're talking a domestic back garden on a sunny afternoon here )

Many many years ago I shared a very large flat - part of an even larger
house, with a vast rear garden - with some other blokes. And one started
his own business, and decided to launch it with a garden party. With a
marquee etc. Money was tight, but he wanted the best. Called in all the
favours he could from everyone he knew. I did the sound and lighting -
with a budget of not a lot. Stuff hired, scrounged and borrowed.
A white grand piano tinkled away on the lawn - and when the pianist took
his break we played the Carpenter's Now and Then - before it had even been
released - as Roger Scott from Capital Radio was one of the investors and
had provided his demo copy. On my Spendor BC1s which were on top of the
single story rear additions either side of the house. And it sounded quite
magical. To the extent passers by were stopping to listen on the road
outside. Not at pop concert levels, of course, but crystal clear and full
range.

I also remember getting up at dawn to de-rig all the lighting inside the
marquee so it could be removed by the hire company with a hangover I've
never forgotten. ;-)

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jun 21, 10:43 pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 21, 10:52 am, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little
music outside.

Let's hope that your neighbours take umbrage and come round and stuff
the speakers where they belong.

After years of hammering noises and electric planers, routers,
circular saws etc, the neighbours would have gone deaf or moved away
by now.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:22:10 -0700 (PDT), Matty F
had this to say:

On Jun 21, 10:43 pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 21, 10:52 am, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Looking to get some speakers for the decking, so we can have a little
music outside.

Let's hope that your neighbours take umbrage and come round and stuff
the speakers where they belong.

After years of hammering noises and electric planers, routers,
circular saws etc, the neighbours would have gone deaf or moved away
by now.

That's very very true. It seems to be the norm nowadays that
woodworkers, be they carpenter- or joiner-type, are expected to use
power tools rather than proper craftsman tools, contributing much to
carbon-type waste of the planet.

--
Frank Erskine

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...


That's very very true. It seems to be the norm nowadays that
woodworkers, be they carpenter- or joiner-type, are expected to use
power tools rather than proper craftsman tools, contributing much to
carbon-type waste of the planet.

It takes less skill to use a power tool (usually).. even i can get
reasonable results.
Even something simple like half lap joints is easier with a SCMS.


My brother has been a wood butcher for 30* years and he still doesn't own
any power tools other than a drill.

Pete Zahut wrote:
Whether it would work
for TMH or not, I don't know, but my reply was a sort of
tongue-in-cheek observation of how this group takes such an innocent
question and then over-engineer's the answer to the nth degree )

On that subject, a bit of lateral thinking & we decided to buy a Brixton
Briefcase instead :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Frank Erskine wrote:
SNIP idiot remarks from ****wit Firth

After years of hammering noises and electric planers, routers,
circular saws etc, the neighbours would have gone deaf or moved away
by now.

That's very very true. It seems to be the norm nowadays that
woodworkers, be they carpenter- or joiner-type, are expected to use
power tools rather than proper craftsman tools, contributing much to
carbon-type waste of the planet.

Its down to time, which is nowadays the most expensive component of a
project. Nobody can plane, cut or drill better than a properly set up
machine anyway.

Aside from which, if Hepplewhite, Sheraton & Chippendale had access to
electric routers etc they would have bloody well used them & been thankful.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
Frank Erskine wrote:
That's very very true. It seems to be the norm nowadays that
woodworkers, be they carpenter- or joiner-type, are expected to use
power tools rather than proper craftsman tools, contributing much to
carbon-type waste of the planet.

Anyone who doesn't must have lots of time on their hands. Or willing to
work for a pittance.

--
*Windows will never cease *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:14:12 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
had this to say:

In article ,
Frank Erskine wrote:
That's very very true. It seems to be the norm nowadays that
woodworkers, be they carpenter- or joiner-type, are expected to use
power tools rather than proper craftsman tools, contributing much to
carbon-type waste of the planet.

Anyone who doesn't must have lots of time on their hands. Or willing to
work for a pittance.

Well this _is_ a d-i-y newsgroup. I have loads of time on my hands :-)

--
Frank Erskine

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Frank Erskine wrote:
That's very very true. It seems to be the norm nowadays that
woodworkers, be they carpenter- or joiner-type, are expected to use
power tools rather than proper craftsman tools, contributing much to
carbon-type waste of the planet.

Anyone who doesn't must have lots of time on their hands. Or willing to
work for a pittance.

I remember someone planing by hand, a plank of wood to do in 2 1/2 hours
what a planer thicknesser can do in 45 seconds.

On Jun 22, 4:57*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
* *Frank Erskine wrote:
That's very very true. It seems to be the norm nowadays that
woodworkers, be they carpenter- or joiner-type, are expected to use
power tools rather than proper craftsman tools, contributing much to
carbon-type waste of the planet.

Anyone who doesn't must have lots of time on their hands. Or willing to
work for a pittance.

I remember someone planing by hand, a plank of wood to do in 2 1/2 hours
what a planer thicknesser can do in 45 seconds.


Some people just enjoy doing it, peaceful, relaxing, productive. I'll
stick with power tools though.


NT