What is the name of the brittle plastic used in UK electrical
fittings for mains wall sockets and that sort of thing?

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.

"mikey" wrote in message
m...
What is the name of the brittle plastic used in UK electrical
fittings for mains wall sockets and that sort of thing?

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.

Casein - made from milk solids.

Colin Bignell

"nightjar.me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"mikey" wrote in message
m...
What is the name of the brittle plastic used in UK electrical
fittings for mains wall sockets and that sort of thing?

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.

Casein - made from milk solids.

Colin Bignell

That surprised me. My copy of Brydson's Plastic Materials (1975) says

"when dry, casein is a good electrical insulator but is seriously affected
by humid conditions. For this reason it can no longer compete with the many
alternative plastics materials now available for electrical applications"

and

"the once considerable application in knitting pins, pens and pencils is no
longer of importance although a few propelling pencils were still being
produced with casein barrels in 1964".

That said, I don't know the answer, but I assume from the relative
brittleness that high levels of filler are used.

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"mikey" wrote in message
m...
What is the name of the brittle plastic used in UK electrical
fittings for mains wall sockets and that sort of thing?

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.

Casein - made from milk solids.


I doubt that. I'm not sure that casein resins are stilll made on any
significant scale - the British manufacturers "Erinoid" stopped a long time
ago.

AFAIK, the dark brown stuff on the insides of electrical fittings is mostly
still "bakelite" or at least the modern version of phenol formaldehyde
resin. The white parts on the faceplates etc are most likely melamine
formaldehyde resin. Both parts full of fillers.

Norman Billingham wrote:
"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...
"mikey" wrote in message
m...
What is the name of the brittle plastic used in UK electrical
fittings for mains wall sockets and that sort of thing?

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.
Casein - made from milk solids.


I doubt that. I'm not sure that casein resins are stilll made on any
significant scale - the British manufacturers "Erinoid" stopped a long time
ago.

AFAIK, the dark brown stuff on the insides of electrical fittings is mostly
still "bakelite" or at least the modern version of phenol formaldehyde
resin. The white parts on the faceplates etc are most likely melamine
formaldehyde resin. Both parts full of fillers.


Ive been worrying about casein too, bit couldnt think what the plastic
might be: melamine strikes a huge chords tho. I think that's the one.
The cheap thermoset plastic..But I doubt bakelite is used any more at all.

But I take your point that phenolic resin plastics are still around -
typically for cheap PCB and the like.

"mikey" wrote in message
m...
What is the name of the brittle plastic used in UK electrical
fittings for mains wall sockets and that sort of thing?

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.

I think the main component is ABS (Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene), however
i would imagine that the actual material is a compound using a variety of
additives such a titanium dioxide (white), impact modifiers and stabilizers
etc.

I hope this helps.

Tom

In article ,
Tom wrote:
I think the main component is ABS (Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene),
however i would imagine that the actual material is a compound using a
variety of additives such a titanium dioxide (white), impact modifiers
and stabilizers etc.

Thought the ABS group were at least slightly flexible? The most common
stuff used on sockets isn't. ;-)

--
*Don't squat with your spurs on *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tom wrote:
I think the main component is ABS (Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene),
however i would imagine that the actual material is a compound using a
variety of additives such a titanium dioxide (white), impact modifiers
and stabilizers etc.

Thought the ABS group were at least slightly flexible? The most common
stuff used on sockets isn't. ;-)

ABS is a thermo plastic. Not used where it gets hot.

On 9 June, 12:19, "Norman Billingham" norman.at.tumulus.org.uk
wrote:

I doubt that. *I'm not sure that casein resins are stilll made on any
significant scale - the British manufacturers "Erinoid" stopped a long time
ago.

Casein resins are still around - mostly for paint binders though.

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:13:04 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tom wrote:
I think the main component is ABS (Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene),
however i would imagine that the actual material is a compound using a
variety of additives such a titanium dioxide (white), impact modifiers
and stabilizers etc.

Thought the ABS group were at least slightly flexible? The most common
stuff used on sockets isn't. ;-)

Some lines, MK has one, use polycarbonate.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

"Norman Billingham" norman.at.tumulus.org.uk wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"mikey" wrote in message
m...
What is the name of the brittle plastic used in UK electrical
fittings for mains wall sockets and that sort of thing?

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.

Casein - made from milk solids.


I doubt that. I'm not sure that casein resins are stilll made on any
significant scale - the British manufacturers "Erinoid" stopped a long
time ago.

MK were certainly using them until quite recently. However, checking their
web site, which I obviously should have done before posting, they now say
they use 'moulded urea', presumably meaning urea formaldehyde

Colin Bignell

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname
here.me.uk saying something like:

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.

Casein - made from milk solids.

Blimey, that'd be handy if you were locked in a room with no food.

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:54:49 +0100, nightjar wrote:

"Norman Billingham" norman.at.tumulus.org.uk wrote in message
...

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"mikey" wrote in message
m...
What is the name of the brittle plastic used in UK electrical
fittings for mains wall sockets and that sort of thing?

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.

Casein - made from milk solids.


I doubt that. I'm not sure that casein resins are stilll made on any
significant scale - the British manufacturers "Erinoid" stopped a long
time ago.

MK were certainly using them until quite recently. However, checking their
web site, which I obviously should have done before posting, they now say
they use 'moulded urea', presumably meaning urea formaldehyde

Colin Bignell

Volex were certainly using Urea Fomaldehyde when I drew up the exploded
diagrams and parts and materials lists for the 9000 range 20 years ago.

SteveW

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname
here.me.uk saying something like:

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.

Casein - made from milk solids.

Blimey, that'd be handy if you were locked in a room with no food.


Its still not edible. Cheap frozen pizzas use Casein based
'cheese'. They also make glue from Casein.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

"nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here wrote:

I mean the plastic that a bit like the old bakelite.

Casein - made from milk solids.

Errm, no.

Tom wrote:

I think the main component is ABS (Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene),

No.

The plastic component is usually a thermosetting resin, and as cheap as
possible such as phenol-formaldehyde or phenol-melamine there will also
be some sort of filler. Originally this was wood flour but modern
plastics may use glass as either a fibre or microballoons.

On 9 Jun 2009 17:10, PeterC wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:13:04 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tom wrote:
I think the main component is ABS (Acrylonitrile butadiene
styrene), however i would imagine that the actual material
is a compound using a variety of additives such a titanium
dioxide (white), impact modifiers and stabilizers etc.

Thought the ABS group were at least slightly flexible? The
most common stuff used on sockets isn't. ;-)

Some lines, MK has one, use polycarbonate.


It's interesting to see you mention alternative plastics.

I asked the original question because the way the plastic broke
when I snapped out some holes for the cable was damn crude and
hard to control. I couldn't believe such hard to work plastic
was ever used in a product!

I was using some 16mm surface-mounted patresses to hold
telephone socket faceplates in a very visible location. They had
to look right.

I swore next time I wouldn't use some bargain 50p patress
because it was taking for ever and ever to get them right. Even
them the irregular jagged holes left by the snap-outs were ugly.

If had to pay several times the bargain price it would be good
value for time saved! The result would be better too.

In article ,
mikey wrote:
I asked the original question because the way the plastic broke
when I snapped out some holes for the cable was damn crude and
hard to control. I couldn't believe such hard to work plastic
was ever used in a product!

Indeed.

I was using some 16mm surface-mounted patresses to hold
telephone socket faceplates in a very visible location. They had
to look right.

You want something surface mounted to look 'right'? ;-)

I swore next time I wouldn't use some bargain 50p patress
because it was taking for ever and ever to get them right. Even
them the irregular jagged holes left by the snap-outs were ugly.

If had to pay several times the bargain price it would be good
value for time saved! The result would be better too.

Strangely most telephone outlets are made of a more flexible plastic which
won't snap in the same way. And goes off white quite quickly.

--
*Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 9 Jun 2009 23:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
mikey wrote:
I asked the original question because the way the plastic
broke when I snapped out some holes for the cable was damn
crude and hard to control. I couldn't believe such hard to
work plastic was ever used in a product!

Indeed.

I was using some 16mm surface-mounted patresses to hold
telephone socket faceplates in a very visible location. They
had to look right.

You want something surface mounted to look 'right'? ;-)

I swore next time I wouldn't use some bargain 50p patress
because it was taking for ever and ever to get them right.
Even them the irregular jagged holes left by the snap-outs
were ugly.

If had to pay several times the bargain price it would be
good value for time saved! The result would be better too.

Strangely most telephone outlets are made of a more flexible
plastic which won't snap in the same way. And goes off white
quite quickly.


You might be thinking of the 55mm x 55mm (LJU1) or 67mm x 67mm
(LJU2) phone socket.

I was installing a couple of the larger 85mm x 85mm phone sockets
(LJU4).

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm

In article ,
mikey wrote:
Strangely most telephone outlets are made of a more flexible
plastic which won't snap in the same way. And goes off white
quite quickly.


You might be thinking of the 55mm x 55mm (LJU1) or 67mm x 67mm
(LJU2) phone socket.

I was installing a couple of the larger 85mm x 85mm phone sockets
(LJU4).

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm

Standard 1 Gang? Yes - those are the ones I was thinking of. I reckoned
they used a different and stronger plastic due to the sliding cover
mechanism. Although of course this may not apply to all makes.

--
*White with a hint of M42*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

Strangely most telephone outlets are made of a more flexible plastic which
won't snap in the same way. And goes off white quite quickly.

Mains stuff really needs thermosetting plastics so it doesn't turn
into cheese if something goes wrong and gets hot. Telecoms can use
thermosoftening plastics, as there's not enough power there to
overheat anything.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:31:32 +0100, mikey wrote:

On 9 Jun 2009 17:10, PeterC wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:13:04 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tom wrote:
I think the main component is ABS (Acrylonitrile butadiene
styrene), however i would imagine that the actual material
is a compound using a variety of additives such a titanium
dioxide (white), impact modifiers and stabilizers etc.

Thought the ABS group were at least slightly flexible? The
most common stuff used on sockets isn't. ;-)

Some lines, MK has one, use polycarbonate.

It's interesting to see you mention alternative plastics.

I asked the original question because the way the plastic broke
when I snapped out some holes for the cable was damn crude and
hard to control. I couldn't believe such hard to work plastic
was ever used in a product!

I was using some 16mm surface-mounted patresses to hold
telephone socket faceplates in a very visible location. They had
to look right.

I swore next time I wouldn't use some bargain 50p patress
because it was taking for ever and ever to get them right. Even
them the irregular jagged holes left by the snap-outs were ugly.

If had to pay several times the bargain price it would be good
value for time saved! The result would be better too.

Yes, I found out the 'hard' (brittle?) way that, to some extent, the
patress needs to be of better quality than the fitting. Even a slightly
uneven wall can break a patress before the screws are done up.
As for a cheap patress under a 40A pull-switch...!
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

I swore next time I wouldn't use some bargain 50p patress
because it was taking for ever and ever to get them right. Even
them the irregular jagged holes left by the snap-outs were ugly.

If had to pay several times the bargain price it would be good
value for time saved! The result would be better too.

I usually dremel the snap-lines before the final snap for just this reason

In article ,
Newshound wrote:
I swore next time I wouldn't use some bargain 50p patress
because it was taking for ever and ever to get them right. Even
them the irregular jagged holes left by the snap-outs were ugly.

If had to pay several times the bargain price it would be good
value for time saved! The result would be better too.

I usually dremel the snap-lines before the final snap for just this
reason

Easier and quicker to use a hacksaw? Unless you're dribble, obviously. ;-)



--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:32:15 +0100, "Newshound"
wrote:




I swore next time I wouldn't use some bargain 50p patress
because it was taking for ever and ever to get them right. Even
them the irregular jagged holes left by the snap-outs were ugly.

If had to pay several times the bargain price it would be good
value for time saved! The result would be better too.

I usually dremel the snap-lines before the final snap for just this reason

I bash it out with a screwdriver and then use a dremel abrasive band
to clean up the edges if the break isn't clean.


--