I took the liberty of adding some begginner's suggestions (and an variation
on Phil's method) to the Wiki.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Plastering_Beginner's_Guide

Slight tweak to formatting to help set the two apart and a couple of other
minor bits.

Whilst my method (wot I learnt from Ron the Builder):

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Plastering_Beginner's_Guide#How_to _skim_-_variation

seems to work for me, I have not the experience to know if there are any
stupid or wrong bits in there.

Anyone with plastering knowledge, please comment!

It's basically the same as Phil's method, but includes a flattening in stage
after the first coat rather than the second. And more detail for beginners
from a beginner.

Cheers

Tim

In article ,
Tim S writes:
I took the liberty of adding some begginner's suggestions (and an variation
on Phil's method) to the Wiki.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Plastering_Beginner's_Guide

Slight tweak to formatting to help set the two apart and a couple of other
minor bits.

Whilst my method (wot I learnt from Ron the Builder):

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Plastering_Beginner's_Guide#How_to _skim_-_variation

seems to work for me, I have not the experience to know if there are any
stupid or wrong bits in there.

Anyone with plastering knowledge, please comment!

It's basically the same as Phil's method, but includes a flattening in stage
after the first coat rather than the second. And more detail for beginners
from a beginner.

Some thoughts...

It's actually only talking about skimming, which is only part
of plastering. Would make more sense to name it something with
skimming in it, unless you intend it to cover plasting eventually.
It may make sense to cover scratch coat plastering in a separate
article anyway -- they're reasonably different.

PVA isn't used when applying plaster to a surface which is
still wet from itself being plastered or sand+cemented. (This
means still initially wet, and not as a result of you wetting
it, which doesn't count.) Sand+cement must be left for 24 hours
before being plastered, but plaster should be recoated same
day if possible. If you miss this deadline, you may need to
leave it to dry and then use PVA.

I don't agree with not properly flattening the first finish
coat. If you slap a second coat on too soon, and without doing
this, you're really just working with one thick coat, which is
going to be harder to keep flat and even.

Could do with a description of what the various coats are for...

Scratch coat (under coat) is to give you a flat, vertical
(horizontal for ceiling) surface, regardless of the undulations
of the underlying wall.

The finish coat is to give you a smooth finish over the scratch
coat. Two coats are required. The first gives you a smooth
surface by bringing the level of the whole wall up to the level
of the highest peaks on the scratch coat. This should be leveled
more than you suggest, but it can't be polished because the high
points of the scratch coat will be on the surface of it. The
second finish coat gives you headroom over all of the scratch
coat peaks, which means you can polish it without hitting hard
bits.

In Mixing, it's important not to go OTT with a power mixer.
In particular, you mustn't wisk air into the mix, and over-
mixing will also make it go off quickly. A proper power mixer
is much slower than most drills, and has low gearing. The
risk with using a drill is that you need to run it slowly,
and unless it has a good low gear, it won't blow enough air
through the motor to cool it given the high load imposed, and
it may overheat. You can mitigate this somewhat by taking off
the stirrer/chuck, and running the drill at top speed with no
load, which will cool it down. Do this as a matter of urgency
if you start smelling hot motor (don't just turn it off and
leave it to cool on its own). Do remember to take the stirrer
off first though!

In Cleanliness, the other important thing is that bits of plaster
from you last mix, if allowed to contaminate the next mix, will
make it go off more quickly and less controllably. So it's
important to thoroughly clean all the tools between mixings
(particularly if you're a beginner). As you say, plaster
washings can go on the garden (I chuck it over the lawn), but
mustn't be poured into the drains. If you don't have a garden
area, pour it into a large tank or drum so the plaster sinks
and sets at the bottom, before pouring off the water.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,

Some thoughts...

It's actually only talking about skimming, which is only part
of plastering. Would make more sense to name it something with
skimming in it, unless you intend it to cover plasting eventually.
It may make sense to cover scratch coat plastering in a separate
article anyway -- they're reasonably different.

OK - Perhaps it could be renamed. I was thinking about adding something
about undercoat plastering on various surfaces as I encounter them.

PVA isn't used when applying plaster to a surface which is
still wet from itself being plastered or sand+cemented. (This
means still initially wet, and not as a result of you wetting
it, which doesn't count.) Sand+cement must be left for 24 hours
before being plastered, but plaster should be recoated same
day if possible. If you miss this deadline, you may need to
leave it to dry and then use PVA.

OK - thanks, I can certainly add that in.

I don't agree with not properly flattening the first finish
coat. If you slap a second coat on too soon, and without doing
this, you're really just working with one thick coat, which is
going to be harder to keep flat and even.

I should mention that I'm only responsible for the second method that does
flatten the first coat off, before applying the second. I didn't feel
qualified to pass judgement on the first method which was already there.

Could do with a description of what the various coats are for...

Scratch coat (under coat) is to give you a flat, vertical
(horizontal for ceiling) surface, regardless of the undulations
of the underlying wall.

Ah - OK. If I can just nick that verbatim more or less, I can add it.

Would you use a derby (or long bit of wood) on the undercoat to achieve
flatness?

I'll stress again, I'm probably the wrong person to write a plastering wiki
bacause I'm basically clueless - I just though it might be useful to add a
true beginner's perspective.

:-

But I can copy n paste!

The finish coat is to give you a smooth finish over the scratch
coat. Two coats are required. The first gives you a smooth
surface by bringing the level of the whole wall up to the level
of the highest peaks on the scratch coat. This should be leveled
more than you suggest, but it can't be polished because the high
points of the scratch coat will be on the surface of it. The
second finish coat gives you headroom over all of the scratch
coat peaks, which means you can polish it without hitting hard
bits.

In Mixing, it's important not to go OTT with a power mixer.
In particular, you mustn't wisk air into the mix,

Yes - I did get a bit of this. But the air bubbles smoothed out fairly
easily. It's this or 100+ quid for a real mixer I'll try the SDS on a
slower setting next time.

and over-
mixing will also make it go off quickly.

Hmm - I might have seen that. One mix did seem to be setting faster than the
others - I had a fight to get it on the wall before it started going.

A proper power mixer
is much slower than most drills, and has low gearing. The
risk with using a drill is that you need to run it slowly,
and unless it has a good low gear, it won't blow enough air
through the motor to cool it given the high load imposed, and
it may overheat. You can mitigate this somewhat by taking off
the stirrer/chuck, and running the drill at top speed with no
load, which will cool it down. Do this as a matter of urgency
if you start smelling hot motor (don't just turn it off and
leave it to cool on its own). Do remember to take the stirrer
off first though!

Sound advice. I think my 8kg Aldi has such an high thermal mass that it
doesn't care. But if using a more normally sized drill it could be a
problem...

In Cleanliness, the other important thing is that bits of plaster
from you last mix, if allowed to contaminate the next mix, will
make it go off more quickly and less controllably. So it's
important to thoroughly clean all the tools between mixings
(particularly if you're a beginner). As you say, plaster
washings can go on the garden (I chuck it over the lawn), but
mustn't be poured into the drains.

That would be bad (TM)

If you don't have a garden
area, pour it into a large tank or drum so the plaster sinks
and sets at the bottom, before pouring off the water.

OK.

Thanks for the comments Andrew - I'll work them in...

Cheers

Tim

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,

Some thoughts...

It's actually only talking about skimming, which is only part
of plastering. Would make more sense to name it something with
skimming in it, unless you intend it to cover plasting eventually.
It may make sense to cover scratch coat plastering in a separate
article anyway -- they're reasonably different.

OK - Perhaps it could be renamed. I was thinking about adding something
about undercoat plastering on various surfaces as I encounter them.

I have posted a few detailed articles on scratch coat plastering
which you can probably find with google. The technique I
describe is called dots and screed (which you can probably
search on).

I've also done some detailed articles on finish coat plastering.

Would you use a derby (or long bit of wood) on the undercoat to achieve
flatness?

Yes. (Long bit of wood in my case.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,

Some thoughts...

It's actually only talking about skimming, which is only part
of plastering. Would make more sense to name it something with
skimming in it, unless you intend it to cover plasting eventually.
It may make sense to cover scratch coat plastering in a separate
article anyway -- they're reasonably different.

OK - Perhaps it could be renamed. I was thinking about adding something
about undercoat plastering on various surfaces as I encounter them.

I have posted a few detailed articles on scratch coat plastering
which you can probably find with google. The technique I
describe is called dots and screed (which you can probably
search on).

I've also done some detailed articles on finish coat plastering.

Would you use a derby (or long bit of wood) on the undercoat to achieve
flatness?

Yes. (Long bit of wood in my case.)


OK - I have most of your suggestions worked in. I'm dead, so might be
typos - I'll browse it again tomorrow.

I'll look out for your previous posts on the subject too...

Cheers and thanks agian

Tim

In Cleanliness, the other important thing is that bits of plaster
from you last mix, if allowed to contaminate the next mix, will
make it go off more quickly and less controllably. So it's
important to thoroughly clean all the tools between mixings
(particularly if you're a beginner). As you say, plaster
washings can go on the garden (I chuck it over the lawn), but
mustn't be poured into the drains. If you don't have a garden
area, pour it into a large tank or drum so the plaster sinks
and sets at the bottom, before pouring off the water.


minor addition:-
Surplus mixed plaster from any batch would go in an empty plaster bag or
cardboard box.

mark

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
I took the liberty of adding some begginner's suggestions (and an variation
on Phil's method) to the Wiki.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Plastering_Beginner's_Guide

Slight tweak to formatting to help set the two apart and a couple of other
minor bits.

Whilst my method (wot I learnt from Ron the Builder):

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Plastering_Beginner's_Guide#How_to _skim_-_variation

seems to work for me, I have not the experience to know if there are any
stupid or wrong bits in there.

Anyone with plastering knowledge, please comment!

It's basically the same as Phil's method, but includes a flattening in
stage
after the first coat rather than the second. And more detail for beginners
from a beginner.

Cheers



When skimming the pva should be allowed to go tacky, not dry.
Any hairline cracks shoud be taped over with scrim , this can be stuck on by
using a small mix of plaster trowelled along the crack and the scrim tape
pressed onto this. Self adhesive scrim is no good on its own as the surface
area for the adhesive is next to nothing.
Scrim tape should be used where there is a change in the substrate material.

mark

mark coughed up some electrons that declared:




When skimming the pva should be allowed to go tacky, not dry.

That was there, but now emphasised.

Any hairline cracks shoud be taped over with scrim , this can be stuck on
by using a small mix of plaster trowelled along the crack and the scrim
tape pressed onto this. Self adhesive scrim is no good on its own as the
surface area for the adhesive is next to nothing.
Scrim tape should be used where there is a change in the substrate
material.

That's in now - received with thanks

CVheers


Tim


mark

On May 11, 7:44*pm, Tim S wrote:
I took the liberty of adding some begginner's suggestions (and an variation
on Phil's method) to the Wiki.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Plastering_Beginner's_Guide

Slight tweak to formatting to help set the two apart and a couple of other
minor bits.

Whilst my method (wot I learnt from Ron the Builder):

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Plastering_Beginner's_Guide....

seems to work for me, I have not the experience to know if there are any
stupid or wrong bits in there.

Anyone with plastering knowledge, please comment!

It's basically the same as Phil's method, but includes a flattening in stage
after the first coat rather than the second. And more detail for beginners
from a beginner.

Cheers

Tim

Hello Tim. In regards to Ron vs Phils methods. Ron is a highly skilled
plasterer who has simply tailored Phils method, or if you like fine
tuned Phils method to suit himself. Most plasterers have little quirks
and minor variations. If you follow Ron's instructions as a novice you
will quickly come unstuck, for he can lay on 4 m2 a minute, very
evenly due to 30 odd years practise, therefore has the time to drink
tea. This I can say with some authority for I am Ron the Builder. I
must say I never expected anyone to even watch the vid but am
delighted you found use of it. Good luck with your projects.

coughed up some electrons that declared:


Hello Tim. In regards to Ron vs Phils methods. Ron is a highly skilled
plasterer who has simply tailored Phils method, or if you like fine
tuned Phils method to suit himself. Most plasterers have little quirks
and minor variations. If you follow Ron's instructions as a novice you
will quickly come unstuck, for he can lay on 4 m2 a minute, very
evenly due to 30 odd years practise, therefore has the time to drink
tea. This I can say with some authority for I am Ron the Builder. I
must say I never expected anyone to even watch the vid but am
delighted you found use of it. Good luck with your projects.

No sh*t?!

Well, I have to extend a large measure of thanks to you Ron.

If it hadn't been for your video, I wouldn't have bothered even trying. I
can only learn this sort of thing by watching, not reading...

OK - fair enough - you don't cover polishing in much detail and this is
where I have problems. The neighbour next door complimented my efforts
(he's a builder), even though I'm sure he was being nice because the polish
is rather crappy, in the wrong light. But your video did at least help me
get the stuff on flat, to the point a quick run over with a sander will
probably tart it up well enough. And it didn't cost me £25/m2 ;-

BTW - are you a professional instructor? If not you should be, you've got
the presentation skills

Cheers

Tim

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 05:33:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Whilst my method (wot I learnt from Ron the Builder):

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=3DPlastering_Beginner's_Guide..=
.

seems to work for me, I have not the experience to know if there are any
stupid or wrong bits in there.


I just get a an empty page from the above link .... or am I just
missing the joke ?

Mike P

Mike wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 05:33:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

snip broken link

I just get a an empty page from the above link .... or am I just
missing the joke ?

Mike P

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Plastering_Beginner's_Guide


NT