In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Can't find out if it has an induction motor - which suggests not I guess.
It apparantly has a Bosch "PowerDrive" motor. No idea what that means
(beyond marketing cobblers) but apparantly it's a "hi-torque motor" and
"With the Bosch Powerdrive system, power is at its greatest at low speed.

That's an excellent description of a universal motor.

I thought as much


The Bosch seems to get the best reviews out of the "crap" end of the market
that I'm looking at. I'll pick one up and see how it goes. Shame, having
just ordered 800 quids worth of wood for my decking I was hoping to pick
up a sliding mitre saw but I'll spend that cash on a mower now :-/

Darren

On May 10, 11:41*am, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Osborne wrote:
The Bosch Rotak models are a best-buy in Which? magazine (if that
carries any weight with you).

I have one, and find it both efficient and manoeuvrable.

Seconded. Much better than the Qualcast it replaced.

MBQ

Steve Firth wrote:
dmc wrote:

Any recomendations? Previous one was something like the flymo on
http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-8936.aspx - want something similar. Petrol
not an option ta - want leccy.

Oh well in that case your answers are easy. Yes, they're all crap. All
electric mowers are crap. All rotary mowers are also crap, but perhaps
slightly less crap when powered by petrol. Sometimes they are a
necessary evil since they do work where a cylinder mower will not and
they cost less than a decent flail mower.

But if you want a decent mower at a reasonable cost then get one with a
petrol engine. Even "cheap" brands such as Power Devil and Sovereign are
way better than electric mowers, especially better than Flymo which
really are the pits.

Steve, we don't all have acres.

My rule of thumb is - if the original cable reaches across the lawn,
electric is fine.

Oh, and I prefer rotary. Less servicing. Especially - if you run over
something in the grass it doesn't need the blades resetting.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:

Steve, we don't all have acres.

I didn't imagine that everyone did. However when I lived in a semi I
still found petrol mowers to be better than electric ones.

My rule of thumb is - if the original cable reaches across the lawn,
electric is fine.

If it works for you. I found that the cable was just a PITA.

On Mon, 11 May 2009 15:03:13 +0100 Steve Firth wrote :
BTW, if it's misplaced "green" sentiments that make you want an
electric, think again. Or at least think about where the electricity
comes from.

We know where it comes from, but I would have thought that the average
B&S side valve engine probably has an efficiency way below most car
engines, and probably below most power stations.

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Harry Bloomfield
saying something like:

We then started looking at second
hand ride on small tractor style ride on types and found a retired guy
out in the wilds selling them all, irrespective of make or model, at
between £500 and £700 - this was a couple of weeks ago. He buys in part
exchanges, does a quick refurb and resells them.

Got a contact number for this bloke? Used ride-ons here are
extortionately priced and I wouldn't mind collecting one from there next
time I'm over.

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 15:03:13 +0100 Steve Firth wrote :
BTW, if it's misplaced "green" sentiments that make you want an
electric, think again. Or at least think about where the electricity
comes from.

We know where it comes from, but I would have thought that the average
B&S side valve engine probably has an efficiency way below most car
engines, and probably below most power stations.

Side valves are not necessarily less efficient, just less good at high revs.
Also mowers tend to be operated at constant throttle, so optimising a
simple carb for that is not too hard.

On Tue, 12 May 2009 11:11:01 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Also mowers tend to be operated at constant throttle, so optimising a
simple carb for that is not too hard.

Er, constant speed. The "throttle" lever on a mower is really a speed
setting control. The actual carburetor throttle varies with the load on
the engine to (try to) maintain that constant speed.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
Tony Bryer wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 15:03:13 +0100 Steve Firth wrote :
BTW, if it's misplaced "green" sentiments that make you want an
electric, think again. Or at least think about where the electricity
comes from.

We know where it comes from, but I would have thought that the average
B&S side valve engine probably has an efficiency way below most car
engines, and probably below most power stations.

Side valves are not necessarily less efficient, just less good at high revs.
Also mowers tend to be operated at constant throttle, so optimising a
simple carb for that is not too hard.

The B&S I had auto adjusted the throttle to attempt to run at
near constant speed with varying load. It used the air outlet
from the engine cooling fan to move a spring loaded vane, to
measure the speed. This can't match the speed to the load as
well as an induction motor mower, but it will do a lot better
than a universal motor mower.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:


And the ride on was a couple of grand.

Fairly cheap, then.

Just bought a new Stiga mid-range model -- paid £5200 for it. RRP well
over £7000.

Paid a couple of grand about ten years ago for a Countax which is still
running but the grass box is falling to pieces and the deck lift motor
doesn't work. The deck has been rebuit once with new pulleys etc .
Stiga is considerably more robust.

The message
from Harry Bloomfield contains these words:

explained on 10/05/2009 :

We have about a third of an acre to be cut, some of it quite rough and
due to the underlying clay, it can get quite boggy.

snip
What we have now is an MTD 4140, 14HP 7 gears with automatic Transmatic
drive, electric start, with a 30" cut single blade - not really much
bigger overall than the 4HP self propelled one, but it does the job in
just a fraction of the time and for the first time it is fun :-) An
easy 15minutes ride around, versus at least an afternoon's struggle
with the alternatives. You can even empty the collector without getting
off it.

The whole thing is much more robust, much easier to service and you
don't get covered with grass when using it. It is designed to be
capable of a much larger acreage, so it should last us a very long
time. It is about 5 years old, with no signs of any real wear and they
cost new about £2,200.

That's about the minimum power that it's worth buying in a ride-on.
Though for the half-acre our house sits in it's not worth using a
ride-on -- too many ups and downs and fiddly bits. The ride-on gets
used for areas outwith the front garden.

The message . com
from Jules contains these words:

On Sun, 10 May 2009 10:55:05 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
We decided last year our next one would be a ride-on. We looked at the
cost of yet another self propelled rotary and found they were about
£300 for something of a respectable size. The cheapest new ride on
about £1200. These have quite small wheels and would likely still get
bogged down unless it was very dry.

That seems like a lot. You can get a new ride-on here for $1000 with 42"
cut which looks pretty reasonable (and they actually discounted them to
$800 a few weeks ago - I went out for a box of nails and almost came
home with a new mower

B+S engine, but I don't recall the HP now - but it certainly wasn't
something where I thought it'd be an issue.

it does the job in
just a fraction of the time and for the first time it is fun :-) An easy
15minutes ride around, versus at least an afternoon's struggle with the
alternatives.

Yeah, takes me a couple of hours with our current ride-on, largely because
it's ancient and cuts really badly, so I keep having to go back over
spots. I'm really regretting not buying one of those $800 ones...

It's a fact that in the US such things are cheaper. However, there are
a couple of points to bear in mind

1. There's a wider range of mowers on sale in the US and some of the
small ride-ons in the US are desperately underpowered

3. US mowers tend to be simpler and designed to deal with typical US
grass -- put them on typical UK grass and they choke up rapidly on the
thick, lush growth.

Mowers for use in the UK generally need much more sophisticated
grass-handling mechanisms if they're going to gather the grass
effectively. I've cut lots of grass both in North America and in the
UK. Vivid memories of an American tractor with a cutting deck with just
one huge blade with lifters on the end which were supposed to create
enough lift to propel the cut grass into the grassbox. Sometimes worked
when the blade was brand new, the grass was very dry and short. But the
lifters invariably broke off on a stone and without the grass collection
system in position the thing could propel stones with a velocity that
seemed to approach that of a bullet, with somewhat interesting effects
on the first object it hit.

Some pretty good bargains to be found in the US among motor mowers
around $99.99, though. Crude -- but they work quite well, at least in
their target market. No pun intended -- I didn't say Target :-)

The message om
from Jules contains these words:


The wife's brother has one of those scooter ones, but it has to be a good
20 years old, maybe older; they must have been around for a while (at
least this side of the Pond). It does surprisingly well, but doesn't
exactly feel stable compared to a proper ride-on, even on level ground
(we've got some pretty steep ditches here, and I have to sit with my
backside hanging out over the back wheel even on the ride-on; I suspect a
scooter type would just keel over)

That is indeed the problem -- lack of stability. And that goes for a
lot of the cheaper ride-ons as well. Last ride-on we had to change the
tyres to get a decent grip.

New Stiga is 4WD.

The message
from (Steve Firth) contains these words:

dmc wrote:

(yes, it's still an electric mower but we don't all have multiple acres to
boast about on here).

The more important thing with a petrol mower is how easy they are to use
compared to the electric ones. I can only guess that you're keen on
electrics because you've never used a petrol mower. If you get a chance,
before you buy another elctric, try using a petrol mower.

BTW, if it's misplaced "green" sentiments that make you want an
electric, think again. Or at least think about where the electricity
comes from.

Not using an electric at the moment, but looking seriously at
lithium-ion battery powerd one for the holiday cottage and for another
remote building. Some of us have a 20 mile round trip to get petrol.
Many places won't let you buy more than a few litres at a time and
demand all sorts of fancy markings and labels on the can and generally
are out to make life difficult. And electric motors start first time
every time, which is more than can be said for petrol mowers of which
I've had dozens -- literally -- over the years, on two continents and
with assorted engines, by far the worst of which was a Tecumseh-engined
Mountfield with regard to which the best that could be said was that the
application of a hot-air gun to the cylinder head usually made it
possible to start the thing. And yes, the choke did work. Even a Honda
-- one of the older, Japanese made engines, too -- was a poor starter,
in spite of the fact that my Honda motorbike which did NOT have an
electric starter, was a "first kick every time" starter from cold, once
you learned the very precise technique for so doing -- full choke and 90
degree twist of the throttle if the engine were even slightly less than
hot. Hassle is something we can do without, so non-petrol power isn't
necessarily crazy. It's not practicable in every location, though.

Appin wrote:

Just bought a new Stiga mid-range model -- paid £5200 for it. RRP well
over £7000.

You could buy a proper tractor + mower of your choice for that money.

On Tue, 12 May 2009 20:55:45 +0100, Appin wrote:
Yeah, takes me a couple of hours with our current ride-on, largely because
it's ancient and cuts really badly, so I keep having to go back over
spots. I'm really regretting not buying one of those $800 ones...

It's a fact that in the US such things are cheaper.

Up-front - they like screwing folk for parts and services though when they
can :-)

1. There's a wider range of mowers on sale in the US and some of the
small ride-ons in the US are desperately underpowered

Agreed on both counts (they do almost always seem well-built though,
unlike a lot of the far-east import crap we see for other goods)

3. US mowers tend to be simpler and designed to deal with typical US
grass -- put them on typical UK grass and they choke up rapidly on the
thick, lush growth.

That's an interesting one. The grass here (middle of MN) is pretty
variable - we've got areas of patchy, weed-choked stuff as well as bits
that grow extremely thickly and quickly.

Mowers for use in the UK generally need much more sophisticated
grass-handling mechanisms if they're going to gather the grass
effectively.

Ahh, I just don't bother here - I rake up some of the heavier patches,
but the wind and wildlife seem to take good care of the rest.

Vivid memories of an American tractor with a cutting deck with just
one huge blade with lifters on the end which were supposed to create
enough lift to propel the cut grass into the grassbox. Sometimes worked
when the blade was brand new, the grass was very dry and short. But the
lifters invariably broke off on a stone and without the grass collection
system in position the thing could propel stones with a velocity that
seemed to approach that of a bullet, with somewhat interesting effects
on the first object it hit.

Ha, yes... our ride-on's got a big crack in one of the lifters on one of
the blades, presumably after some collision, but replacement blades are
cheap - I've just not quite got the tuits together to go fetch a
replacement.

Know exactly what you mean about stones - thankfully I think I've got
nearly all of them cleared out from amongst the grass now.

Some pretty good bargains to be found in the US among motor mowers
around $99.99, though. Crude -- but they work quite well, at least in
their target market. No pun intended -- I didn't say Target :-)

:-) Smaller walk-behind mowers in the US all seem to be extremely heavy -
very solid build to them. Having grown up with a hover mower they all seem
a bit unwieldy though, and IME not particularly good at starting.

cheers

J.

The message
from (Steve Firth) contains these words:

Appin wrote:

Just bought a new Stiga mid-range model -- paid £5200 for it. RRP well
over £7000.

You could buy a proper tractor + mower of your choice for that money.


Not one that would meet OUR needs which include a caravan site where the
5-metre gap between vans has to be cut as well. After more than 30
years and having used a wide range of machinery I think we know what is
required to cut the grass we have. There's also half an acre with the
only access through an opening not even 5' wide and in a listed (not
listing! :-)) stone wall.

The message . com
from Jules contains these words:

Vivid memories of an American tractor with a cutting deck with just
one huge blade with lifters on the end which were supposed to create
enough lift to propel the cut grass into the grassbox. Sometimes worked
when the blade was brand new, the grass was very dry and short. But the
lifters invariably broke off on a stone and without the grass collection
system in position the thing could propel stones with a velocity that
seemed to approach that of a bullet, with somewhat interesting effects
on the first object it hit.

Ha, yes... our ride-on's got a big crack in one of the lifters on one of
the blades, presumably after some collision, but replacement blades are
cheap - I've just not quite got the tuits together to go fetch a
replacement.

Know exactly what you mean about stones - thankfully I think I've got
nearly all of them cleared out from amongst the grass now.


Trouble with that one was (it was a US-made machine being used in the
UK) that with one huge blade underneath with horrendous tip velocity,
the loss of just one lifter would throw the blade horrendously out of
balance. And with no lifter at all the feed to the grassbox wouldn't
work.

After that it was such a relief to go to machines with three much
smaller blades and other methods of getting rid of the grass. New
machine has a convertible mulching deck.

On Wed, 13 May 2009 16:24:15 +0100, Appin wrote:
Ha, yes... our ride-on's got a big crack in one of the lifters on one of
the blades, presumably after some collision, but replacement blades are
cheap - I've just not quite got the tuits together to go fetch a
replacement.

Know exactly what you mean about stones - thankfully I think I've got
nearly all of them cleared out from amongst the grass now.

Trouble with that one was (it was a US-made machine being used in the
UK) that with one huge blade underneath with horrendous tip velocity,
the loss of just one lifter would throw the blade horrendously out of
balance. And with no lifter at all the feed to the grassbox wouldn't
work.

Our one has a pair of blades, so it's not so bad - they're really
unbalanced though, so it could definitely benefit from being treated to a
new set. See other post - it now runs, but doesn't stop :-)

One goofy bit of design is that there's no belt tensioner as standard; it
seemed to rely solely on the weight of the deck to keep the blade belt
tight - so it'd slip if cutting anything thick and on slightly uneven
ground. I ended up homebrewing a tensioner using the hub from an old bike
wheel, which seemed to work pretty well.

(That's one benefit of a single blade, I suppose - the belt wraps around
much more of the pulley, so it should be less prone to slipping)

cheers

Jules

Appin wrote:

The message
from (Steve Firth) contains these words:

Appin wrote:

Just bought a new Stiga mid-range model -- paid £5200 for it. RRP well
over £7000.

You could buy a proper tractor + mower of your choice for that money.


Not one that would meet OUR needs which include a caravan site where the
5-metre gap between vans has to be cut as well.

Well... 1.5 metre wide mowers are common for compact tractors and
compacts are a lot smaller than you seem to think.

After more than 30 years and having used a wide range of machinery I think
we know what is required to cut the grass we have.

Have you ever used a tractor as opposed to a toy tractor?

There's also half an acre with the only access through an opening not even
5' wide and in a listed (not listing! :-)) stone wall.

Whatever.

pondering just buying a cheap and chearful 40 quid job and accepting
it will probably only do this year.
Works for me. Ditto leaf blowers / garden vacs. Built to last a year
and a day. Buy cheap, salvage the copper content, bin it buy a new
one.

And, sure enough, another one bites the dust.

Sadly, can't find a 40 quid replacement - Now 67 quid.

Al.