I know this has bee ndiscussed before, but I wanted to hear what
people think of a new possoble way to do it.

I have a 100 year old house with 4" floorboards. The shrinkage gaps
are several mm and I'd like to squeeze up the boards. However, I'd
prefer not to lift them all because (a) I would have to rip out the
skirting boards which is not easy to do without damaging them and (b)
I'd need to prize up the boards which is also hard to do without
splitting them.

Ideally I'd like a way to pull out the nails without lifting the
boards.

Has anyone done this by: drill out a circular 'plug' around each
nail, hammer the nail owen a bit (or pull it out) and then plug the
hole with a plug cut from an old board of the same set? I could
then slide the boards up without ever lifting them up off the joists
or out from under the skirting.

Or does someone know of a tool that will pull flooring brads without
wrecking the surrounding wood?

Robert

RobertL wrote:
I know this has bee ndiscussed before, but I wanted to hear what
people think of a new possoble way to do it.

I have a 100 year old house with 4" floorboards. The shrinkage gaps
are several mm and I'd like to squeeze up the boards. However, I'd
prefer not to lift them all because (a) I would have to rip out the
skirting boards which is not easy to do without damaging them and (b)
I'd need to prize up the boards which is also hard to do without
splitting them.

Ideally I'd like a way to pull out the nails without lifting the
boards.

Has anyone done this by: drill out a circular 'plug' around each
nail, hammer the nail owen a bit (or pull it out) and then plug the
hole with a plug cut from an old board of the same set? I could
then slide the boards up without ever lifting them up off the joists
or out from under the skirting.

Or does someone know of a tool that will pull flooring brads without
wrecking the surrounding wood?

Robert

This type of thing maybe?

http://www.smithfrancistools.co.uk/Default.asp?Page=41

I find them very time consuming and they make a right mess of the
surface. Fine for packing cases, but I wouldn't use them on floorboards.

I don't think the plug idea is very practical. How would you stabilise
the drill, and how many nail heads would you hit with the cutter? IIRC
those things are slightly concave on the inside.

The other option, if you have access to a sawbench and some spare
boards, is to cut loads of strips. You inevitably need some about 2mm
thick to make up the width, but I'm sure the H&S police wouldn't be
happy with a fence set to 2mm. Also, gaps are rarely uniform, and taper
slightly over a distance, so the whole thing ends up a dog's dinner.
Not ideal if you're having bare boards.

I think you'll find removing the skirting and lifting the boards
quicker and cleaner in the long run. Once you've got one up, the rest
are normally a doddle because you you have good access to one edge. With
a couple of pry bars, there's no reason why they wouldn't come up cleanly.

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:51:15 GMT, Stuart Noble
wrote:

RobertL wrote:
I know this has bee ndiscussed before, but I wanted to hear what
people think of a new possoble way to do it.

I have a 100 year old house with 4" floorboards. The shrinkage gaps
are several mm and I'd like to squeeze up the boards. However, I'd
prefer not to lift them all because (a) I would have to rip out the
skirting boards which is not easy to do without damaging them and (b)
I'd need to prize up the boards which is also hard to do without
splitting them.

Ideally I'd like a way to pull out the nails without lifting the
boards.

Has anyone done this by: drill out a circular 'plug' around each
nail, hammer the nail owen a bit (or pull it out) and then plug the
hole with a plug cut from an old board of the same set? I could
then slide the boards up without ever lifting them up off the joists
or out from under the skirting.

Or does someone know of a tool that will pull flooring brads without
wrecking the surrounding wood?

Robert

This type of thing maybe?

http://www.smithfrancistools.co.uk/Default.asp?Page=41

I find them very time consuming and they make a right mess of the
surface. Fine for packing cases, but I wouldn't use them on floorboards.

I don't think the plug idea is very practical. How would you stabilise
the drill, and how many nail heads would you hit with the cutter? IIRC
those things are slightly concave on the inside.

The other option, if you have access to a sawbench and some spare
boards, is to cut loads of strips. You inevitably need some about 2mm
thick to make up the width, but I'm sure the H&S police wouldn't be
happy with a fence set to 2mm. Also, gaps are rarely uniform, and taper
slightly over a distance, so the whole thing ends up a dog's dinner.
Not ideal if you're having bare boards.

I think you'll find removing the skirting and lifting the boards
quicker and cleaner in the long run. Once you've got one up, the rest
are normally a doddle because you you have good access to one edge. With
a couple of pry bars, there's no reason why they wouldn't come up cleanly.

I agree.I think you'd be kidding yourself if you think any way but
lifting them is going to be quicker or better . As said above once the
first one is lifted then the rest should be easier .Problems might
well be the skirtings which prevent the ends lifting if they are full
length boards ( remove skirtings to make it easier) and also if the
boards have been "secretly nailed " through the tongues or grooves .
When relaying them a flooboard cramp is a great help ( a pair at
least) . You can hire these .I got them from HSS.
Even doing all that you might still have a few gaps .Tapered slices
off an old board tapped and glued in to the gap should help the end
appearance

In article
,
RobertL wrote:
Or does someone know of a tool that will pull flooring brads without
wrecking the surrounding wood?

Nail lifter will do the least damage. But there's no way to do it without
some damage. Personally, I'd fill the gaps.

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
RobertL wrote:
Or does someone know of a tool that will pull flooring brads without
wrecking the surrounding wood?

Nail lifter will do the least damage. But there's no way to do it without
some damage. Personally, I'd fill the gaps.

Just to add if you move floorboards across the room because they've shrunk
you might well end up with cutouts for pipes etc not being in the middle
of a board anymore.

--
*Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
RobertL writes:
I know this has bee ndiscussed before, but I wanted to hear what
people think of a new possoble way to do it.

I have a 100 year old house with 4" floorboards. The shrinkage gaps
are several mm and I'd like to squeeze up the boards. However, I'd
prefer not to lift them all because (a) I would have to rip out the
skirting boards which is not easy to do without damaging them and (b)
I'd need to prize up the boards which is also hard to do without
splitting them.

If they are plain boards and the edges touch, they'll creek as
you step on them and the edges rub together. Been there, done
that, and had to run a saw down to make a gap between each board,
just as they had been before I replaced them.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

This type of thing maybe?

http://www.smithfrancistools.co.uk/Default.asp?Page=41

I find them very time consuming and they make a right mess of the
surface. Fine for packing cases, but I wouldn't use them on floorboards.

Yup - tried one - took it straight back to the shop. The tool has to
chew through the surface to get at the nail - as you say, fine on
packing cases.

In older properties you may find you have cut nails rather than modern
round or oval wire nails, and these old nails may be much more
difficult to shift.

My technique is to put 6mm spax screws in with an impact driver
(missing a joist of course), all the way through the board, with the
screwhead standing just proud of the board, at the point I want to
lift it. Then use a crowbar hooked under the screw head, and bearing
on a bit of scrap timber. Enables me to lift stubborn boards with only
a screw hole as damage.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article
,
RobertL wrote:
Or does someone know of a tool that will pull flooring brads without
wrecking the surrounding wood?

Nail lifter will do the least damage. But there's no way to do it without
some damage. Personally, I'd fill the gaps.

Same here. I solved the same problem at home using the same technique as
used on wooden boats. Pack the gap with string using a caulking iron to
pack it down, then fill with Sikaflex. Sikaflex has the advantage that
it's available in a range of colours and it can be sanded after
application. It's commonly used on boats to seal the gaps in wooden
decking.

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 03:50:17 -0700, RobertL wrote:
I have a 100 year old house with 4" floorboards. The shrinkage gaps
are several mm and I'd like to squeeze up the boards. However, I'd
prefer not to lift them all because (a) I would have to rip out the
skirting boards which is not easy to do without damaging them and (b)
I'd need to prize up the boards which is also hard to do without
splitting them.

Dunno about the UK, but skirting boards are cheap here in the US - I'd
just take them off, and if they get trashed just replace them (last time
I did it, cutting new ones and fitting to a room was a very quick job)

I suspect getting the first floorboard up without damaging it is going to
be the difficult one - but if you have several mm of gaps bewteen each
you're going to be adding a new bit of board along one edge when you're
done anyway. The other boards should come up easy once you get started, I
think.

Has anyone done this by: drill out a circular 'plug' around each nail,
hammer the nail owen a bit (or pull it out) and then plug the hole with
a plug cut from an old board of the same set?

What's the reason for doing this - are they just noisy? Presumably it's
not for cosmetic reasons if you're thinking about trying to make up
plugs...

Or does someone know of a tool that will pull flooring brads without
wrecking the surrounding wood?

Crawl under floor. Drill up through joists to tip* of nail. Using a hammer
and convenient piece of metal rod, hammer nails out from below. If
strutrual integrity is compromised, replace joists.

* Locating the tips of the nails accurately is left as an exercise for the
reader.

(that was my backup humourous suggestion as I couldn't think of a good
one involving an angle grinder :-)

cheers

Jules







Robert

--
"What progress. It's almost as good as taping it... on tapes which self destruct in seven days."

- Bill Bailey on the BBC's "watch again" service

Drill up through joists to tip* of nail.

Target seeking drills that automatically home in on nails, pipes and
cables are readily available at your local store.

thanks for all the useful comments and suggestions. In my case the
skirting board is unobtainable now so to replace it with a copy is
VERY expensive, plus I want to conserve the originals. Having said
that, the skirting boards are nailed to the walls into wood blocks set
into the brickwork (as was common in 1880) so it is possible to prize
them off undamaged if you are careful.

Caulking is a very intersting idea. I'll look in to that.

many thanks,

Robert

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:40:57 -0700 (PDT), RobertL
wrote:



thanks for all the useful comments and suggestions. In my case the
skirting board is unobtainable now so to replace it with a copy is
VERY expensive, plus I want to conserve the originals. Having said
that, the skirting boards are nailed to the walls into wood blocks set
into the brickwork (as was common in 1880) so it is possible to prize
them off undamaged if you are careful.

Caulking is a very intersting idea. I'll look in to that.

many thanks,

Robert

Dunno about your area but if you speak of the tall( 8" or so) skirting
with the decorative top I replaced some of mine ( Victorian Tenement
Flat in Glasgow) with MDF cut to size by a timber merchant and topped
with replacement mouldings that match exactly the originals .This
skirting is also nailed to battens fixed to wooden tapered plugs
fitted between the bricks .These are almost guaranteed to come away
from the wall when u remove the skirting

In article . com,
Jules wrote:
I have a 100 year old house with 4" floorboards. The shrinkage gaps
are several mm and I'd like to squeeze up the boards. However, I'd
prefer not to lift them all because (a) I would have to rip out the
skirting boards which is not easy to do without damaging them and (b)
I'd need to prize up the boards which is also hard to do without
splitting them.

Dunno about the UK, but skirting boards are cheap here in the US - I'd
just take them off, and if they get trashed just replace them (last time
I did it, cutting new ones and fitting to a room was a very quick job)

100 year old skirting boards could be very difficult to match. The ones in
my living room are 12" high made up of three pieces with mouldings which
aren't standard. I've also seen them made of plaster.

It's also a pretty skilled job to fit them neatly to an old house where
nothing is square.

--
*Preserve wildlife - Go pickle a squirrel*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:23:59 -0700, RubberBiker wrote:


Drill up through joists to tip* of nail.

Target seeking drills that automatically home in on nails, pipes and
cables are readily available at your local store.

Ha ha! Right next to the hammers pre-coated in nail-head repellent...

On 2 Apr, 11:50, RobertL wrote:
I know this has bee ndiscussed before, but I wanted to hear what
people think of a new possoble way to do it.

I have a 100 year old house with 4" floorboards. *The shrinkage gaps
are several mm and I'd like to squeeze up the boards. *However, I'd
prefer not to lift them all because (a) I would have to rip out the
skirting boards which is not easy to do without damaging them and (b)
I'd need to prize up the boards which is also hard to do without
splitting them.

Ideally I'd like a way to pull out the nails without lifting the
boards.

Has anyone done this by: *drill out a circular 'plug' around each
nail, hammer the nail owen a bit (or pull it out) and then plug the
hole with a plug cut from an old board of the same set? * *I could
then slide the boards up without ever lifting them up off the joists
or out from under the skirting.

Or does someone know of a tool that will pull flooring brads without
wrecking the surrounding wood?

Robert

Dear Robert

I have done this many times both personally and professionally during
dry rot contracts.
I agree with the majority of posts - either lift the boards or fill
the gaps
Filling the gaps is not difficult and is best done with thin strips of
floorboard cut off (with a 1 degree or so wedge angle ) and hammered
in with glue and a batten
I dont like that approach as it looks tacky unless you like light
strips between darker boards


It is not difficult to lift boards if you have the right tools

take off the skirting with care. Use a stanley knife or similar to
make a break at the top with the wall paper etc
be brave and at one point in the middle put in a wide thin bolster
between it and the plaster with if possible a thin steel plate behind
the bolster to protect (as much as poss) the plaster and ease out the
skirting at the top
if you are near a fixing move away till it comes out a few mm
do this sequentially along the top until you can get in a thin small
crowbar (called a baseboard lifter) and then ease out the middle
work to the two sides/ends
get an assitant to pull out the middle till it bows and then take ouot
one of the ends then the other
denail and set aside
do the next skirting to the right or left to suit so you now have two
sides - if necessary to get access

now you need a Fein multimaster to cut the nearest to the wall board
if not in two pieces and lift it up using the aforementioned
baseboard lifter behind the back of the board where it was under the
skirting
Use a professional board lifter (this is a 1.2 m long handle about
1.5 " thick with two levers of aluminium shaped like a cam that rests
on the joist and can roll under the board and lift it without damage
ease up the board with the lifter sequentially unitl it prizes loose
label it !
Carry on to the last board
Lay sound deadening quilt
relay using cramps or folding sliding wedges

Chris

Use a professional board lifter (this is a 1.2 m long handle about
1.5 " thick with two levers of aluminium shaped like a cam that rests
on the joist and can roll under the board and lift it without damage

Haven't seen those. Can you post a link?
This is about the closest I've seen
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ansell-Floorbo...QQcmdZViewItem

On Apr 3, 11:24*am, wrote:
On 2 Apr, 11:50, RobertL wrote:





I know this has bee ndiscussed before, but I wanted to hear what
people think of a new possoble way to do it.

I have a 100 year old house with 4" floorboards. *The shrinkage gaps
are several mm and I'd like to squeeze up the boards. *However, I'd
prefer not to lift them all because (a) I would have to rip out the
skirting boards which is not easy to do without damaging them and (b)
I'd need to prize up the boards which is also hard to do without
splitting them.

Ideally I'd like a way to pull out the nails without lifting the
boards.

Has anyone done this by: *drill out a circular 'plug' around each
nail, hammer the nail owen a bit (or pull it out) and then plug the
hole with a plug cut from an old board of the same set? * *I could
then slide the boards up without ever lifting them up off the joists
or out from under the skirting.

Or does someone know of a tool that will pull flooring brads without
wrecking the surrounding wood?

Robert

Dear Robert

I have done this many times both personally and professionally during
dry rot contracts.
I agree with the majority of posts - either lift the boards or fill
the gaps
Filling the gaps is not difficult and is best done with thin strips of
floorboard cut off *(with a 1 degree or so wedge angle ) and hammered
in with glue and a batten
I dont like that approach as it looks tacky unless you like light
strips between darker boards

It is not difficult to lift boards if you have the right tools

take off the skirting with care. Use a stanley knife or similar to
make a break at the top with the wall paper etc
be brave and at one point in the middle put in a wide thin bolster
between it and the plaster with if possible a thin steel plate behind
the bolster to protect (as much as poss) the plaster and ease out the
skirting at the top
if you are near a fixing move away till it comes out a few mm
do this sequentially along the top until you can get in a thin small
crowbar (called a baseboard lifter) and then ease out the middle
work to the two sides/ends
get an assitant to pull out the middle till it bows and then take ouot
one *of the ends then the other
denail *and *set aside
do the next skirting to the right or left to suit so you now have two
sides - if necessary to get access

now you need a Fein multimaster to cut the nearest to the wall board
if not in two pieces and lift it up using *the aforementioned
baseboard lifter *behind the back of the board where it was under the
skirting
Use a professional board lifter (this is a *1.2 m long handle about
1.5 " thick with two levers of aluminium shaped like a cam that rests
on the joist and can roll under the board and *lift it without damage
ease up the board with the lifter sequentially unitl it prizes loose
label it !
Carry on to the last board
Lay sound deadening quilt
relay using cramps or folding sliding wedges

Thank you for this helpful reply. I have not seen such a tool but it
sounds ideal with the leverage taken on the exposed joist next to the
board. hence no damage to the surface of any board.

Robert

In article
,
RobertL wrote:
Thank you for this helpful reply. I have not seen such a tool but it
sounds ideal with the leverage taken on the exposed joist next to the
board. hence no damage to the surface of any board.

Even if you hammered up a board from underneath you'll likely get damage
to some through splitting, etc. Old boards are usually nailed with cut
nails which ain't designed to be removed.

--
*If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 3 Apr, 23:06, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
* *RobertL wrote:

Thank you for this helpful reply. * I have not seen such a tool but it
sounds ideal with the leverage taken on the exposed joist next to the
board. *hence no damage to the surface of any board.

Even if you hammered up a board from underneath you'll likely get damage
to some through splitting, etc. Old boards are usually nailed with cut
nails which ain't designed to be removed.

--
*If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.*

* * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave
I have found that either the floor brad (cut nail) head pulls through
the timber board (as is the case with the majority in old thin softer
timbers) and is left in the joist or (as is the case in newer timbers
in good condition left in the floorboard) and only where the angle to
the grain is poor or the wood was particuluarly friable do I find it
splits. I guess this happens in about 10% of the jobs we do - perhaps
less and is never a big problem in the sense that it is only the
occasional board that is thus defective. The skill is in gently
tapping with a hammer on the other end of the board once one had part
of it up acting as a fulcrum. If one does this the board "shakes"
itself free of the nails without damage. So, recapping, Lift one end
and work your way down about 1.5 m (enough to act as a lever) and put
a fulcrum such as a steel bar or even a floorboard off cut under the
part lifted board as close to the fixed down end as possible. Then
gently hit the lifted end downwards with a hammer. This will "spring"
the board from the nails nicely without any damage at all.
Chris

In article
,
wrote:
On 3 Apr, 23:06, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
RobertL wrote:

Thank you for this helpful reply. I have not seen such a tool but
it sounds ideal with the leverage taken on the exposed joist next to
the board. hence no damage to the surface of any board.

Even if you hammered up a board from underneath you'll likely get
damage to some through splitting, etc. Old boards are usually nailed
with cut nails which ain't designed to be removed.

Dave
I have found that either the floor brad (cut nail) head pulls through
the timber board (as is the case with the majority in old thin softer
timbers) and is left in the joist or (as is the case in newer timbers
in good condition left in the floorboard) and only where the angle to
the grain is poor or the wood was particuluarly friable do I find it
splits. I guess this happens in about 10% of the jobs we do - perhaps
less and is never a big problem in the sense that it is only the
occasional board that is thus defective. The skill is in gently
tapping with a hammer on the other end of the board once one had part
of it up acting as a fulcrum. If one does this the board "shakes"
itself free of the nails without damage. So, recapping, Lift one end
and work your way down about 1.5 m (enough to act as a lever) and put
a fulcrum such as a steel bar or even a floorboard off cut under the
part lifted board as close to the fixed down end as possible. Then
gently hit the lifted end downwards with a hammer. This will "spring"
the board from the nails nicely without any damage at all.

If a cut nail pulls through the board it is then damaged as you can't use
that same nail hole again.
My advice stands - don't remove old floorboards unless you really have to
as they will never replace as neatly as when new.
Since I'm not a bare floorboards fan - unless a hardwood floor designed
to be on show - I always use screws on replacement of old or new (if badly
damaged). Then you *can* remove them later without damage.

--
Is the hardness of the butter proportional to the softness of the bread?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.