Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. He had visited my house
to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. While
there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling in
the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. I did
this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I could
plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once.
I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether
it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

Robert

RobertL wrote:

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once.
I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether
it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

I can't imagine why... I certainly wouldn't even consider approaching BC
to replace a ceiling; but am just wondering whether there's some other
perspective as to how the BCO's cage has been rattled over this? Didn't
he elaborate?

David

"RobertL" wrote in message
...
Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. He had visited my house
to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. While
there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling in
the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. I did
this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I could
plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once.
I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether
it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

AIUI, if you've changed the fire break properties of the room it is.

tim

tim..... wrote:
"RobertL" wrote in message
...
Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. He had visited my house
to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. While
there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling in
the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. I did
this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I could
plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once.
I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether
it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

AIUI, if you've changed the fire break properties of the room it is.


Mmm. That is probably his *justification..*

But in these times of low property constriction, the *reason* is, he
wants as much work as possible, probably.



tim

On Feb 10, 2:43*pm, Lobster wrote:
RobertL wrote:
He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once.
I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether
it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

I can't imagine why... I certainly wouldn't even consider approaching BC
to replace a ceiling; but am just wondering whether there's some other
perspective as to how the BCO's cage has been rattled over this? *Didn't
he elaborate?


Yes, you are right, his cage had been rattled (my fault) ; here's the
full story. The previous owner (now deceased) had removed a window
and bricked up the opening to a thickness of 100mm. there was no BC
notice for this. Unwisely I decided to quietly reverse this work
and replace the window with an accurate copy (sash window). The BCO
spotted this work in progress and was not pleased.

He also noticed that there was electrical work going on without a BC
notice. This is OK because my contractors can self-certify but by
then I htink he had given me a black mark.

Robert

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
tim..... wrote:
"RobertL" wrote in message
...
Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. He had visited my house
to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. While
there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling
in the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. I
did this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I
could plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced
works without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application
at once. I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's
opinion on whether it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

AIUI, if you've changed the fire break properties of the room it is.


Mmm. That is probably his *justification..*

But in these times of low property constriction, the *reason* is, he
wants as much work as possible, probably.



tim

A Building Control Officer of a local authority gets paid (handsomely if you
include his other perks as well) whether he works or not - but he can get a
bit stroppy if he's been ****ed off for some reason (as the OP has already
stated).

They're almost redundant proof as the local authority will have a policy of
re-assignment to other departments in the *very* *unlikely* event of all
types of building work drying up.

Woodworm

On 10 Feb, 14:23, RobertL wrote:
Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. *He had visited my house
to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. *While
there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling in
the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. *I did
this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I could
plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once.
I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether
it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

Robert

You've explained about the window now, though I'm not clear what this
has to do with the ceiling ;-)

The only way I can see a ceiling coming within BC is if you've
disturbed a "thermal surface", e.g. a surface between an inside space
and the outside. This since the regs changed in 2006. So if, for
example, you had rafters with tiles on the outside and a sloping
ceiling fixed to the inside, and you pulled out the ceiling, you'd be
obliged to put it back to current standard, with requisite insulation.
If you simply have a roof, then a normal void, then a ceiling, I don't
see the relevqance to BC of replacing the ceiling.

Regards
Richard

In article ,
RobertL writes:
Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. He had visited my house
to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. While
there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling in
the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. I did
this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I could
plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once.
I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether
it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

My _guess_ would be requirements on thermal insulation.
Even replastering/rendering an external wall now requires a BN
so they can come and check you've upgraded the insulation to
correct levels. Of course, no one does, but you got caught.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Feb 10, 3:55*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * RobertL writes:

Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. *He had visited my house
to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. *While
there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling in
the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. *I did
this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I could
plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once.
I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether
it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

My _guess_ would be requirements on thermal insulation.
Even replastering/rendering an external wall now requires a BN
so they can come and check you've upgraded the insulation to
correct levels. Of course, no one does, but you got caught.

yes this must be it. of course, I was planning to improve the
insulation I just hadn't realised I needed them to approve it. i
wonder what would have happened if I had simply posted some kinspan
into the void as I originally planned. it was only really Rrentokil
that swayed me to take it down for spraying.

I'll take a lot more care now. There are some old structures we want
to use - a victorian conservatory for example. I guess that if I take
them down I might not be able to rebuild them.

R

On Feb 10, 3:55*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,

Even replastering/rendering an external wall now requires a BN
so they can come and check you've upgraded the insulation to
correct levels. Of course, no one does, but you got caught.

Amazing! So if I pull the blown plaster off the wall all in one go
and have a plasterer in to replaster I have to get BC approval and
perhaps upgrade the walls.

R

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:23:40 -0800, RobertL wrote:

Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. He had visited my house to
sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. While there he
noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling in the back
bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. I did this so
Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I could plan how to
insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once. I
am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether it
really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.


yes because (at least) it alters the fire resistance of the build, if
only temporarily. One of the BCO on this group will probably confirm this
or not.









--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Amazing! * * So if I pull the blown plaster off the wall all in one go
and have a plasterer in to replaster I have to get BC approval and
perhaps upgrade the walls.

No, that's probably a repair.

Woodworm wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
tim..... wrote:
"RobertL" wrote in message
...
Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. He had visited my house
to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. While
there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling
in the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. I
did this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I
could plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced
works without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application
at once. I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's
opinion on whether it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.
AIUI, if you've changed the fire break properties of the room it is.

Mmm. That is probably his *justification..*

But in these times of low property constriction, the *reason* is, he
wants as much work as possible, probably.



tim

A Building Control Officer of a local authority gets paid (handsomely if you
include his other perks as well) whether he works or not - but he can get a
bit stroppy if he's been ****ed off for some reason (as the OP has already
stated).


If he is only working 50%, and t=he has a feklkow BCO, he may find
himsel redundant.

They're almost redundant proof as the local authority will have a policy of
re-assignment to other departments in the *very* *unlikely* event of all
types of building work drying up.


Watch in a years time...

Woodworm

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Woodworm"
saying something like:

A Building Control Officer of a local authority gets paid (handsomely if you
include his other perks as well) whether he works or not - but he can get a
bit stroppy if he's been ****ed off for some reason (as the OP has already
stated).

They're almost redundant proof as the local authority will have a policy of
re-assignment to other departments in the *very* *unlikely* event of all
types of building work drying up.

And apparently they'll hire nearly any clueless **** to do it.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:23:40 -0800 (PST), a certain chimpanzee,
RobertL randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. He had visited my house
to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. While
there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling in
the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. I did
this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I could
plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once.
I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether
it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

Renovation of a thermal element. Where one is replacing a ceiling,
roof, wall or floor, it counts as notifiable work. The Building
Control involvement is/should be limited to making sure the work
complies with the requirements of Part L (Conservation of Fuel and
Power).

The amount of work one needs to do to comply depends on how much of
the ceiling you have removed. Upto 25%, and it's reasonable to do
nothing. Any more, and you need only do what is technically,
functionally or economically feasible.

See Approved Document L1B, in particular Sections 54-55:
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...314231799.html

BTW, it can be done on a Building Notice which doesn't need
'approval'. Strictly speaking, if he is saying that you have 'started'
without an application, then he can't accept one off you, as
applications must be submitted before work starts.

Personally, I would have worn my blinkers when looking around. A
piddling little bit of work like that is more trouble than it's worth
for the fees it'll generate.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:28:08 -0000, a certain chimpanzee, "Woodworm"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

A Building Control Officer of a local authority gets paid (handsomely if you
include his other perks as well) whether he works or not - but he can get a
bit stroppy if he's been ****ed off for some reason (as the OP has already
stated).

What perks would they be, pray tell? Let's think. Ooh, I got a council
issue fleece last year, does that count?

The perks available if I were in the private sector would be a great
deal more. I would have a company car, laptop, private health
insurance, Xmas parties paid for, etc.

They're almost redundant proof as the local authority will have a policy of
re-assignment to other departments in the *very* *unlikely* event of all
types of building work drying up.

In recent years, Building Control has been a dumping ground for people
redeployed from other departments, sometimes wholly unemployable.

In the twenty years I've been in Building Control in different
authorities, there's been one common theme: downsizing. I would
estimate that all authorities have reduced staff by around 20%. Every
reorganisation reduces not increases staff.

Building Control is almost unique in Local Government of having a
statutory duty to balance its costs and income. We're not allowed to
be subsidised by the general budget. So far, the management are saying
there won't be any redundancies this time around, but you can bet that
won't be the case forever, and anyone who leaves won't be replaced.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:15:15 GMT, a certain chimpanzee, Ed Sirett
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

yes because (at least) it alters the fire resistance of the build, if
only temporarily. One of the BCO on this group will probably confirm this
or not.

It's a notifiable matter (for the reasons in my previous post), but
there's (virtually) no requirement for a ceiling below a roof to have
fire resistance. If the fire's bad enough to burn through the ceiling,
anyone in that room is toast, and all the fire brigade could do is
squirt water at it from the outside.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:46:11 -0800 (PST), a certain chimpanzee,
RobertL randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

Amazing! So if I pull the blown plaster off the wall all in one go
and have a plasterer in to replaster I have to get BC approval and
perhaps upgrade the walls.

Yes, which is why you patched it in stages, didn't you. Nod your head.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Woodworm wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
tim..... wrote:
"RobertL" wrote in message
...
Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. He had visited my
house to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house.
While there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster
ceiling in the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm
above. I did this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm
but also so I could plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced
works without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application
at once. I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's
opinion on whether it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.
AIUI, if you've changed the fire break properties of the room it
is.
Mmm. That is probably his *justification..*

But in these times of low property constriction, the *reason* is, he
wants as much work as possible, probably.



tim

A Building Control Officer of a local authority gets paid
(handsomely if you include his other perks as well) whether he works
or not - but he can get a bit stroppy if he's been ****ed off for
some reason (as the OP has already stated).


If he is only working 50%, and t=he has a feklkow BCO, he may find
himsel redundant.

Very, very unlikely, he will simply be transferred to another department
(believe me) - unless he's over the age of 50 and has around 20 - 40years
service.

Then, he could be asked if he wishes to "retire", and if he says yes - he
will be given around a £40,000 lump sum and a pension (final salary based)
of around £800 - £1100 per month (and possibly more depending on length of
service and final salary).

They're almost redundant proof as the local authority will have a
policy of re-assignment to other departments in the *very*
*unlikely* event of all types of building work drying up.


Watch in a years time...

He will still be there - either as a BCO (as there will always be somebody
altering buildings) or a simple pen-pusher in another department -- and
still on the salary he was paid as a BCO.

Or simply go 'on the sick' and pick up a full salary for six months, half
salary for another 6 months - and *then* retire on ill health with virtually
the same cash as a previously stated (the lump sum will be a little less).

Unless he does something really silly, his job is virtually bomb-proof.

Woodworm

Hugo Nebula coughed up some electrons that declared:

What perks would they be, pray tell? Let's think. Ooh, I got a council
issue fleece last year, does that count?

The perks available if I were in the private sector would be a great
deal more. I would have a company car, laptop, private health
insurance,

*cough* - not in *all* private sectors Hugo - don't feel too bad.

Xmas parties paid for, etc.

Well, we did have a nice pub lunch and free beer (well, a couple of pints)
last Xmas. Then I worked for a very small company. I dare say the Banks and
big corporations do (did?) better.

snip...

Building Control is almost unique in Local Government of having a
statutory duty to balance its costs and income. We're not allowed to
be subsidised by the general budget. So far, the management are saying
there won't be any redundancies this time around, but you can bet that
won't be the case forever, and anyone who leaves won't be replaced.

And yet the government continues to push more and more ******** onto the
list of things you should be concerned about, with the enevitable result
that the important issues of building control are no doubt being lost in
the wash.

You do have my sympathies - I was in the Civil Service a long while back -
saw it all there too. I have come to the conclusion that universities are
probably the best bet overall these days, as far as normal salaried jobs
go - and even they are not immune from the destructive influences of some
smart arse bring in corporate nonsense and destroying the place "because
the university needs to modernise". I'm not talking about some tinpot ex
poly that does nothing but Roman Woodworking and Media Studies either!

Good luck

In article ,
Tim S writes:

And yet the government continues to push more and more ******** onto the
list of things you should be concerned about, with the enevitable result
that the important issues of building control are no doubt being lost in
the wash.

That's exactly what my local head-BCO guy said to me when I
went to talk with him about Part P during the consulation phase.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Feb 10, 8:49*pm, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:23:40 -0800 (PST), a certain chimpanzee,
RobertL randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

Is ceiling removal a BC matter?

I had a phone call from my local BCO today. *He had visited my house
to sign off some work some builders are doing in the house. *While
there he noticed that I had pulled down a lath and palster ceiling in
the back bedroom revealing a simple slate roof 100mm above. *I did
this so Rentokil coul dsparuy there for woodworm but also so I could
plan how to insulate it better.

He complained that by pulling down the ceiling I had "commenced works
without approval" and he wants me to submit a BC application at once.
I am happy to do this, but I wanted to get people's opinion on whether
it really is a BC matter to remove a ceiling.

Renovation of a thermal element. Where one is replacing a ceiling,
roof, wall or floor, it counts as notifiable work. The Building
Control involvement is/should be limited to making sure the work
complies with the requirements of Part L (Conservation of Fuel and
Power).

The amount of work one needs to do to comply depends on how much of
the ceiling you have removed. Upto 25%, and it's reasonable to do
nothing. Any more, and you need only do what is technically,
functionally or economically feasible.

Very helpful replies all, thank you.

I do want to bring it up to modern thermal standards. That had always
been my intention.

Robert

Hugo Nebula wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:28:08 -0000, a certain chimpanzee, "Woodworm"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

A Building Control Officer of a local authority gets paid
(handsomely if you include his other perks as well) whether he works
or not - but he can get a bit stroppy if he's been ****ed off for
some reason (as the OP has already stated).

What perks would they be, pray tell? Let's think. Ooh, I got a council
issue fleece last year, does that count?

Essential car user allowance - whatever time-off that you require for those
little trips to the dentist, shopping etc and still get paid, the odd
'sneaking' home early for a long lunch, flexible working time that is
usually 'fiddled' to get around the core working time, upto 40 days annual
leave (including statutory holidays), telephone allowance (both fixed line
and mobile phone) -- shall I go on?

The perks available if I were in the private sector would be a great
deal more. I would have a company car, laptop, private health
insurance, Xmas parties paid for, etc.

A company car that is taxed to the limit, LA's supply laptops and not all
companies provide health insurance etc.

They're almost redundant proof as the local authority will have a
policy of re-assignment to other departments in the *very*
*unlikely* event of all types of building work drying up.

In recent years, Building Control has been a dumping ground for people
redeployed from other departments, sometimes wholly unemployable.

Ditto with other departments having to take the dross of the BC department -
especially when they cock-up.

In the twenty years I've been in Building Control in different
authorities, there's been one common theme: downsizing. I would
estimate that all authorities have reduced staff by around 20%. Every
reorganisation reduces not increases staff.

The BC dept may 'downsize' but seldom if ever make 'redundancies' - they may
dress up early retirements as redundancies so that staff can be given the
cash on top of their Superannuated pension lump sum...

Building Control is almost unique in Local Government of having a
statutory duty to balance its costs and income. We're not allowed to
be subsidised by the general budget.

But your departmental budgets are rarely 'ring-fenced' and I've yet to meet
a deparmental Chief Officer that isn't expert at creative budget control...

So far, the management are saying there won't be any redundancies this time
around,

I have yet to work in a LA that has actually had to enforce compulsory
redundancies - even during the the Thatcher years when the works were
compulsory tendered for - and contracts lost and the employees transferred
under TUPE.

but you can bet that won't be the case forever, and anyone who leaves won't
be replaced.

Now that's different to redundancy - and how many leave for another job
within the private sector? Not many, they either go to a different LA or
Housing Association, reach retirement age - or take early retirement - and
depending on years and final salary, pick up a reasonably sized lump-sum and
superannuated pension.


Woodworm

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:51:10 -0000 Woodworm wrote :
Essential car user allowance - whatever time-off that you require
for those little trips to the dentist, shopping etc and still get
paid, the odd 'sneaking' home early for a long lunch, flexible
working time that is usually 'fiddled' to get around the core working
time, upto 40 days annual leave (including statutory holidays),
telephone allowance (both fixed line and mobile phone) -- shall I go
on?

Well I am a former BCO and Hugo tells it more like I remember it. We
certainly didn't sneak home for long lunches: more like sandwiches at
the desk with interruptions to answer queries. Unpaid overtime to keep
the show running. Annual Christmas dinner paid for ourselves out of
after-tax money and then no more than 2-3 hours and back to work unlike
the afternoon shutdown in many companies. Most of us had more than a
few tech books, codes etc bought out of our own money. Yes, you could
do OK out of essential car allowance, but choose the right company car
and you do even better (as I did with my Honda Jazzs back in the UK).

The real giveaway (it may have changed) was that whenever a job was
advertised there were rarely enough people to make a decent shortlist,
unlike corresponding jobs in planning that would draw in dozens of
applications.

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:51:10 -0000, a certain chimpanzee, "Woodworm"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Hugo Nebula wrote:

What perks would they be, pray tell? Let's think. Ooh, I got a council
issue fleece last year, does that count?

Essential car user allowance...

....of £70/month (before tax) and 36.9p/mile which is meant to amount
to the total cost of running a car. It will just about cover the
marginal cost of a car, but if you have to run a car _because_ of your
job (ie, a second car that you wouldn't normally), then it nowhere
comes near covering the costs.

whatever time-off that you require for those
little trips to the dentist, shopping etc and still get paid, the odd
'sneaking' home early for a long lunch,

....None of which is written into any contract, and if one is caught,
could land you with disciplinary action. Are you saying such things
never happen in the private sector?

flexible working time that is
usually 'fiddled' to get around the core working time,

Not sure what you mean by this one. Flexitime benefits the employers
just as much as the employees. It reduces sick leave or 'special
leave' and enables the offices to be open longer as there's usually
someone working early or late. Where I work now uses clock cards, so
'fiddling' can't happen (and of course, 'presenteeism' in the private
sector means that everybody is working flat out for twelve hours a
day).

upto 40 days annual leave (including statutory holidays),

Why not count weekends too? 'Upto'; is that the same as my 'upto 8Mb
broadband' (ie, less than half that)?

telephone allowance (both fixed line and mobile phone)

Where do I get these? I have a mobile phone from work (a very basic
clapped out model) as my job means builders and colleagues need to
contact me when I'm out on site. Any private phone calls or texts I
make I have to pay for.

shall I go on?

Please do.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:36:57 +0000 Hugo Nebula wrote :
....of £70/month (before tax) and 36.9p/mile which is meant to
amount to the total cost of running a car. It will just about
cover the marginal cost of a car, but if you have to run a car
_because_ of your job (ie, a second car that you wouldn't
normally), then it nowhere comes near covering the costs.

Sadly that may be the fault of the union. We had a big dispute over
car allowances in my BCO days and withdrew the use of our cars. An
interim offer was made that I considered fair, so I wrote to the
head of personnel saying that I would be prepared to accept this
and if the final offer was more they could continue to pay me just
this. Of course I knew this wouldn't happen, but I wasn't prepared
for what happened next:

A week later we were called together and told that a 'better' offer
had been made. All my colleagues looked at me accusingly. A quick
bit of mental arithmetic confirmed that the new deal was to the
benefit of casual users (the majority) and for those of us on
essential allowances it was lower than the 'offer' I had accepted.

After that I didn't have a lot of time for NALGO (as was then)

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:17:06 +1100, a certain chimpanzee, Tony Bryer
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Sadly that may be the fault of the union. We had a big dispute over
car allowances in my BCO days and withdrew the use of our cars.

I remember that dispute. The Council I was with hired a fleet of hire
cars. I never knew that a 1.3 Fiesta could go so fast in second gear.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?