Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

can someone please tell give me advice on the following.

I'm planning in knocking 2 rooms into one. The partition brick wall is
approximately 8 foot wide, it is also a supporting wall. I would like to
make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume I would
need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural engineers report to
calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also need to submit a building
notice. I will be doing all the building work myself.

Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer, or is it possible to obtain some
piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc at which
point I can then submit the building notice myself.

If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should do prior
to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations where the
supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

cheers

Jon

jon wrote:
Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

can someone please tell give me advice on the following.

I'm planning in knocking 2 rooms into one. The partition brick wall is
approximately 8 foot wide, it is also a supporting wall. I would like to
make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume I would
need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural engineers report to
calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also need to submit a building
notice. I will be doing all the building work myself.

Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer, or is it possible to obtain some
piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc at which
point I can then submit the building notice myself.

If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should do prior
to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations where the
supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

cheers

Jon

Any decent builder should be able to calculate the weight of the wall
above and purchase a suitable RSJ. We did a similar thing, knocking
through our kitchen and back room. We submitted a building control
notice, the inspector came out to check before the builder took the
acros(so?) down and then will need to come back out again once the job
has been fire proofed and finished off.

jon wrote:
Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

can someone please tell give me advice on the following.

I'm planning in knocking 2 rooms into one. The partition brick wall is
approximately 8 foot wide, it is also a supporting wall. I would like to
make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume I would
need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural engineers report to
calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also need to submit a building
notice. I will be doing all the building work myself.

Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer, or is it possible to obtain some
piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc at which
point I can then submit the building notice myself.

If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should do prior
to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations where the
supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

cheers

Jon

Submit the notice to your council and ask for a visit. Then you can ask
the BC Officer what his minimum requirements will be for the RSJ.

Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

can someone please tell give me advice on the following.

I'm planning in knocking 2 rooms into one. The partition brick wall is
approximately 8 foot wide, it is also a supporting wall. I would like
to make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume
I would need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural
engineers report to calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also
need to submit a building notice. I will be doing all the building
work myself.
Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer, or is it possible to obtain
some piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc
at which point I can then submit the building notice myself.

If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should
do prior to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations
where the supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

Your best course is to talk to your local council's building control and ask
them what they require. That way you should minimise the risk of doing the
work and then having to alter it to suit their requirements. They will
certainly want to see proper calculations regarding the RSJ.


Peter Crosland

"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
...
Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

can someone please tell give me advice on the following.

I'm planning in knocking 2 rooms into one. The partition brick wall is
approximately 8 foot wide, it is also a supporting wall. I would like
to make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume
I would need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural
engineers report to calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also
need to submit a building notice. I will be doing all the building
work myself.
Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer, or is it possible to obtain
some piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc
at which point I can then submit the building notice myself.

If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should
do prior to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations
where the supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

Your best course is to talk to your local council's building control and
ask them what they require. That way you should minimise the risk of doing
the work and then having to alter it to suit their requirements. They will
certainly want to see proper calculations regarding the RSJ.


Peter Crosland
Cheers Peter, have already done this and they have said they do need proper
calulations as submitted with building notice application and that this
should be done by a structual engineer, which should cost approx £300.

Other people in this thread are saying this is not the case, and that a
builder should be able to do this, are they wrong? I don't won't to get
builders involved as i'll be doing all the work myself.

Jon

wrote in message
ups.com...

jon wrote:
Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

can someone please tell give me advice on the following.

I'm planning in knocking 2 rooms into one. The partition brick wall is
approximately 8 foot wide, it is also a supporting wall. I would like to
make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume I
would
need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural engineers report to
calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also need to submit a building
notice. I will be doing all the building work myself.

Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer, or is it possible to obtain some
piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc at which
point I can then submit the building notice myself.

If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should do
prior
to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations where the
supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

cheers

Jon

Submit the notice to your council and ask for a visit. Then you can ask
the BC Officer what his minimum requirements will be for the RSJ.


I have already spoken to them and they have told me that I must submit the
details of the RSJ to be used with the builbing notice apllication form.

Jon

"thankyousam" wrote in message
ps.com...
jon wrote:
Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

can someone please tell give me advice on the following.

I'm planning in knocking 2 rooms into one. The partition brick wall is
approximately 8 foot wide, it is also a supporting wall. I would like to
make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume I
would
need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural engineers report to
calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also need to submit a building
notice. I will be doing all the building work myself.

Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer, or is it possible to obtain some
piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc at which
point I can then submit the building notice myself.

If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should do
prior
to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations where the
supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

cheers

Jon

Any decent builder should be able to calculate the weight of the wall
above and purchase a suitable RSJ. We did a similar thing, knocking
through our kitchen and back room. We submitted a building control
notice, the inspector came out to check before the builder took the
acros(so?) down and then will need to come back out again once the job
has been fire proofed and finished off.


I'll be doing all the work myself, so I can't really do this, but are you
saying that as long as the calculations are correct you don't need to be a
structual engineer to work out/ provide the RSJ sizes, etc.

ps what's an acros(so?), also what needs to be fire proofed, the RSJ?

Jon

jon wrote:
"thankyousam" wrote in message
ps.com...
jon wrote:
Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

can someone please tell give me advice on the following.

I'm planning in knocking 2 rooms into one. The partition brick wall is
approximately 8 foot wide, it is also a supporting wall. I would like to
make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume I
would
need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural engineers report to
calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also need to submit a building
notice. I will be doing all the building work myself.

Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer, or is it possible to obtain some
piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc at which
point I can then submit the building notice myself.

If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should do
prior
to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations where the
supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

cheers

Jon

Any decent builder should be able to calculate the weight of the wall
above and purchase a suitable RSJ. We did a similar thing, knocking
through our kitchen and back room. We submitted a building control
notice, the inspector came out to check before the builder took the
acros(so?) down and then will need to come back out again once the job
has been fire proofed and finished off.


I'll be doing all the work myself, so I can't really do this, but are you
saying that as long as the calculations are correct you don't need to be a
structual engineer to work out/ provide the RSJ sizes, etc.

ps what's an acros(so?), also what needs to be fire proofed, the RSJ?

Jon

The Acro Jacks (sorry I can't find whether this is the proper spelling)
are the adjustable supports that hold up the wall while the RSJ is
being fitted. I suspect our builder got the RSJs off another job
because they were massively oversized - the building control guy came
in, took one look and said they looked oversized. He was in the house
for less than a minute. I think they'd only ask to see your
calculations if the RSJ looks too small. I know that doesn't help you
calculate the correct size though )

jon wrote:
"thankyousam" wrote in message
ps.com...

jon wrote:

Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

can someone please tell give me advice on the following.

I'm planning in knocking 2 rooms into one. The partition brick wall is
approximately 8 foot wide, it is also a supporting wall. I would like to
make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume I
would
need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural engineers report to
calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also need to submit a building
notice. I will be doing all the building work myself.

Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer, or is it possible to obtain some
piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc at which
point I can then submit the building notice myself.

If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should do
prior
to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations where the
supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

cheers

Jon

Any decent builder should be able to calculate the weight of the wall
above and purchase a suitable RSJ. We did a similar thing, knocking
through our kitchen and back room. We submitted a building control
notice, the inspector came out to check before the builder took the
acros(so?) down and then will need to come back out again once the job
has been fire proofed and finished off.



I'll be doing all the work myself, so I can't really do this, but are you
saying that as long as the calculations are correct you don't need to be a
structual engineer to work out/ provide the RSJ sizes, etc.

ps what's an acros(so?), also what needs to be fire proofed, the RSJ?

Jon


An acro is an Acrow Prop Stay, these hold the the wall up while the
building work goes on around and at the end of the RSJ.
If you didn't know that are you competent to do this work?

J

"PSOE" wrote in message
...
jon wrote:
"thankyousam" wrote in message
ps.com...

jon wrote:

Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

can someone please tell give me advice on the following.

I'm planning in knocking 2 rooms into one. The partition brick wall is
approximately 8 foot wide, it is also a supporting wall. I would like to
make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume I
would
need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural engineers report
to
calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also need to submit a building
notice. I will be doing all the building work myself.

Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer, or is it possible to obtain some
piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc at which
point I can then submit the building notice myself.

If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should do
prior
to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations where the
supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

cheers

Jon

Any decent builder should be able to calculate the weight of the wall
above and purchase a suitable RSJ. We did a similar thing, knocking
through our kitchen and back room. We submitted a building control
notice, the inspector came out to check before the builder took the
acros(so?) down and then will need to come back out again once the job
has been fire proofed and finished off.



I'll be doing all the work myself, so I can't really do this, but are you
saying that as long as the calculations are correct you don't need to be
a structual engineer to work out/ provide the RSJ sizes, etc.

ps what's an acros(so?), also what needs to be fire proofed, the RSJ?

Jon
An acro is an Acrow Prop Stay, these hold the the wall up while the
building work goes on around and at the end of the RSJ.
If you didn't know that are you competent to do this work?

J
Apologies I've always called them "strong boys", however I now know they're
also called acros(so?)s

Jon

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:32:41 GMT Jon wrote :
Cheers Peter, have already done this and they have said they do need proper
calulations as submitted with building notice application and that this
should be done by a structual engineer, which should cost approx £300.

Other people in this thread are saying this is not the case, and that a
builder should be able to do this, are they wrong?

No, different LAs (and even different BCOs within the same LA) will take
differing views: some always ask for calculations; others (generally older
and more experienced) won't if the steel to be put it is obviously going to
be OK. If your BCO will accept a 203x102 without calculations and headroom is
not an issue, this will be cheaper than getting an engineer to justify the
use of a smaller section.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:32:41 GMT Jon wrote :
Cheers Peter, have already done this and they have said they do need
proper
calulations as submitted with building notice application and that this
should be done by a structual engineer, which should cost approx £300.

Other people in this thread are saying this is not the case, and that a
builder should be able to do this, are they wrong?

No, different LAs (and even different BCOs within the same LA) will take
differing views: some always ask for calculations; others (generally older
and more experienced) won't if the steel to be put it is obviously going
to
be OK. If your BCO will accept a 203x102 without calculations and headroom
is
not an issue, this will be cheaper than getting an engineer to justify the
use of a smaller section.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk


Cheers Tony, very helpful advice,

also just came across this, which should hopefully save me the £300
structual engineers fees:

http://www.crawley.gov.uk/stellent/g...3%20x%20102%22

Jon

jon wrote:
"PSOE" wrote in message
...

ps what's an acros(so?), also what needs to be fire proofed, the RSJ?

An acro is an Acrow Prop Stay, these hold the the wall up while the
building work goes on around and at the end of the RSJ.
If you didn't know that are you competent to do this work?

Apologies I've always called them "strong boys", however I now know they're
also called acros(so?)s

Erm no, that's something else.

Strongboy: www.hiremasters.co.uk/images/prod_images/60_1.jpg
Acrow: http://marwoodgroup.co.uk/prodimagelarge/61.jpg

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
jon wrote:
"PSOE" wrote in message
...

ps what's an acros(so?), also what needs to be fire proofed, the RSJ?

An acro is an Acrow Prop Stay, these hold the the wall up while the
building work goes on around and at the end of the RSJ.
If you didn't know that are you competent to do this work?

Apologies I've always called them "strong boys", however I now know
they're also called acros(so?)s

Erm no, that's something else.

Strongboy: www.hiremasters.co.uk/images/prod_images/60_1.jpg
Acrow: http://marwoodgroup.co.uk/prodimagelarge/61.jpg

David

OK, point taken.

Jon

ps what's an acros(so?), also what needs to be fire proofed, the RSJ?

If you don't know the answers to these questions, then you should definitely
NOT be doing the work. These questions also indicate that you don't know the
answers to lots of other questions that you don't even know you need to ask.

I wouldn't dream of doing this myself, not least because it would be
difficult to insure the work and the consequences of failure (total
destruction of the property) are too severe. It is also usually quite cheap
if you get them just to quote for the building work. It is the plastering
and decorating that cost.

Christian.

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:37:28 GMT Jon wrote :
also just came across this, which should hopefully save me the £300
structual engineers fees:

http://www.crawley.gov.uk/stellent/g...3%20x%20102%22

Full marks to Crawley BC for some commonsense advice.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.. .
ps what's an acros(so?), also what needs to be fire proofed, the RSJ?

If you don't know the answers to these questions, then you should
definitely NOT be doing the work. These questions also indicate that you
don't know the answers to lots of other questions that you don't even know
you need to ask.

Well yes, and I too was worried by the Acrow knowledge, though in HSS
they're not actually called Acrow, but least the OP hasn't (yet) criticised
the criticism. Surely we can help.

I wouldn't dream of doing this myself,

that's fine if you don't fancy it, but I say I wouldn't dream of letting a
cowboy builder do it, and how do you avoid a cowboy. By DIY perhaps?

not least because it would be difficult to insure the work

err... never done that.

and the consequences of failure (total destruction of the property) are too
severe.

the point is the OP seems willing to be steered in the direction of BC
compliance. Insureable when signed off.

Jim A

the point is the OP seems willing to be steered in the direction of BC
compliance. Insureable when signed off.

I meant insuring the work against collapse during the actual work, not
whether the ensuing house is insurable.

I suppose your house insurance might cover it if you sledgehammer out a wall
and the props are in the wrong place, but I'd want confirmation in advance.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.. .
ps what's an acros(so?), also what needs to be fire proofed, the RSJ?

If you don't know the answers to these questions, then you should
definitely NOT be doing the work. These questions also indicate that you
don't know the answers to lots of other questions that you don't even know
you need to ask.

I wouldn't dream of doing this myself, not least because it would be
difficult to insure the work and the consequences of failure (total
destruction of the property) are too severe. It is also usually quite
cheap if you get them just to quote for the building work. It is the
plastering and decorating that cost.

Christian.


Christian, I fully understand your point, and I would never dream of
attempting this kind of work without obtaining all relevant knowledge of the
whole procedure. Hence me coming onto this newsgroup to get as much info as
possible, as well as contacting the Local Authority.

Hovever I fully believe this level of work is well within my scope.

As for employing builders, well just getting someone to turn up to give me a
quote is proving to be nigh impossible.

Jon

"jon" wrote in message
...
Christian, I fully understand your point, and I would never dream of
attempting this kind of work without obtaining all relevant knowledge of
the whole procedure. Hence me coming onto this newsgroup to get as much
info as possible, as well as contacting the Local Authority.

Hovever I fully believe this level of work is well within my scope.

Some people are just more risk-averse than others. Christian is one of them.

Do you have a plan of what to do? Something like a decent DIY book covers it
quite well - eg the Collins one. (awaits cries of 'no' from those with
experience :-) )

cheers,
clive

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:59:44 GMT, "jon" wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. ..
ps what's an acros(so?), also what needs to be fire proofed, the RSJ?

If you don't know the answers to these questions, then you should
definitely NOT be doing the work. These questions also indicate that you
don't know the answers to lots of other questions that you don't even know
you need to ask.

I wouldn't dream of doing this myself, not least because it would be
difficult to insure the work and the consequences of failure (total
destruction of the property) are too severe. It is also usually quite
cheap if you get them just to quote for the building work. It is the
plastering and decorating that cost.

Christian.


Christian, I fully understand your point, and I would never dream of
attempting this kind of work without obtaining all relevant knowledge of the
whole procedure. Hence me coming onto this newsgroup to get as much info as
possible, as well as contacting the Local Authority.

Hovever I fully believe this level of work is well within my scope.

As for employing builders, well just getting someone to turn up to give me a
quote is proving to be nigh impossible.

Jon

You'll be needing to go to the uk.d-i-y newsgroup then. This is the
uk.do-not.d-i-y newsgroup.
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:37:28 GMT Jon wrote :
also just came across this, which should hopefully save me the £300
structual engineers fees:

http://www.crawley.gov.uk/stellent/g...3%20x%20102%22

Full marks to Crawley BC for some commonsense advice.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk


Concur: but not-quite full marks for whoever wrote ;- " ... calculations to
prove there adequacy."

--
Brian

"Clive George" wrote in message
...
"jon" wrote in message
...
Christian, I fully understand your point, and I would never dream of
attempting this kind of work without obtaining all relevant knowledge of
the whole procedure. Hence me coming onto this newsgroup to get as much
info as possible, as well as contacting the Local Authority.

Hovever I fully believe this level of work is well within my scope.

Some people are just more risk-averse than others. Christian is one of
them.

Do you have a plan of what to do? Something like a decent DIY book covers
it quite well - eg the Collins one. (awaits cries of 'no' from those with
experience :-) )

cheers,
clive
I've had a quick look on t'internet and a found a few sites, but these are
mainly for installing 3 - 5 foot concrete lintels for doors, rather than
rsjs, but they do show you how to use the acrows.

I also, like yourself, used to have an old Collins DIY book and remember
seeing a section in there that covered this project, so I might buy the new
2006 copy as the old one did cover the topic fairly comprehensively.

However....if any kind soul knows of any good internet sites or could
recommend any good books i'd be extremely grateful.

cheers

Jon

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:22:06 GMT, a particular chimpanzee named "Brian
Sharrock" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

Concur: but not-quite full marks for whoever wrote ;- " ... calculations to
prove there adequacy."

Ejukation is not essential to be a BCO;-)
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:32:41 GMT, a particular chimpanzee named "jon"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Cheers Peter, have already done this and they have said they do need proper
calulations as submitted with building notice application and that this
should be done by a structual engineer, which should cost approx £300.

Other people in this thread are saying this is not the case, and that a
builder should be able to do this, are they wrong? I don't won't to get
builders involved as i'll be doing all the work myself.

I'm not being disparaging, but asking a BCO in a phone call, "what
size RSJ do I need" is likely to elicit an arse-covering response. As
Tony said, it depends on the experience of the BCO; if you'd have said
to me, "I'm going to be using a 178 x 102 UB to support a uniformly
distributed load over a 2.4m wide opening", I would have probably
agreed that it would **** it (a technical term).
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

Owain wrote:
Clive George wrote:
Do you have a plan of what to do? Something like a decent DIY book
covers it quite well - eg the Collins one. (awaits cries of 'no' from
those with experience :-) )



Owain

"I've got a full, bound, set of "The Knack" somewhere in the loft..."

thats going back some !!! I rmember the adverts for it

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
jon wrote:

Apologies I've always called them "strong boys", however I now know
they're also called acros(so?)s

Jon

No, they're not called "acros(so?)s"

The (so?) is a typo for (sp?) - indicating that the writer was unsure of the
spelling, and is not part of the name. They are simply Acrow props - often
abbreviated to Acros.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Hugo Nebula wrote:

Ejukation is not essential to be a BCO;-)
--

Perhaps I'll scan a letter I received from my Bromley BCO and post it
up (once I've finished my dealings with them!).

Very poor spelling, grammar, punctuation, formatting and some bits were
corrected and added to with a pen after it was printed.

I haven't decided if I'm offended, amused or just plain scared that I'm
going to be dealing with a complete idiot for the next month or so.

"cucumber" wrote in message
oups.com...

Hugo Nebula wrote:

Ejukation is not essential to be a BCO;-)
--

Perhaps I'll scan a letter I received from my Bromley BCO and post it
up (once I've finished my dealings with them!).

Very poor spelling, grammar, punctuation, formatting and some bits were
corrected and added to with a pen after it was printed.

I haven't decided if I'm offended, amused or just plain scared that I'm
going to be dealing with a complete idiot for the next month or so.


Leaving the subject of BCOs' 'Ejukation' ... I was startled to see a
headline in a London freebie newspaper - that a young girl was scanning on a
bus. The headline stated 'Israel leaves UN ..." ( I thought, something along
the lines of brown stuff and air circulating apparatus) newline) " ... to
deal with Lebanon". There must have been a journalist, a sub-editor,
editor ... involved? 'Edjukation'? ... things have only got better?

--

Brian

Roger Mills wrote:

The (so?) is a typo for (sp?) - indicating that the writer was unsure of the
spelling, and is not part of the name. They are simply Acrow props - often
abbreviated to Acros.

Yes, my apologies - I think I may have contributed to the confusion
within this thread. It was meant to be (sp?) as I was unsure of the
spelling of Acrow and I could not find anything when I searched for
"acro".

I shall hide in a darkened room and learn to type correctly

jon wrote:
Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

Sorry to be butting in at this late stage but there's no stupid
questions. Some of the most apparently inane questions posted on this
newsgroup have generated the most profoundly insightful postings.
We've all benefited : - ))

/snip/

make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume I would
need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural engineers report to
calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also need to submit a building
notice. I will be doing all the building work myself.

Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer,

No: most people who've followed an HNC/HND/degree engineering course
should know (in theory) what calcs are needed.


or is it possible to obtain some
piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc at which
point I can then submit the building notice myself.

You can get the formulae from eng ref books, textbooks on structures -
if you google for calcs on floor joists & the beams to hold them up on
this group you'e sure to find enough pointers. Alternatively many RSJ
suppliers will do the calcs for you for free on the basis they will
supply the beam - just ask for a quote. The calcs are simple & you
barely need a spreadsheet. What perhaps is wanted more is the ability
to look at the calc result & then the structure & feel reasonably
assured you've got the right answer. Or come back with the data below
& see if this is your lucky day


If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should do prior
to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations where the
supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

You will need to assess the weight of masonry to be held up, and the
weight (including imposed load) of that part of any floor or roof held
up Remember the self weight of your beam has also to be taken into
account. An SE would assess that for you. However if you d-i-y then
you SHOULD diy BOTH the loading & the beam calcs (ie you need to
understand and be confident in both aspects - don't put rubbish data
into good formulae or vice versa) & preferably have someone look it
over - also if possible look out for a comparable hole & compare.

BTW RSJ (Rolled Steel Joist) is mostly nowadays a colloquial term for
any steel beam. Strictly it means just what it says - a joist rolled
from a hot steel ingot in 1 piece in a steel mill. They have sloping
internal profiles and are still obtainable, however most things called
'RSJ's are now Universal Beams. UBs are made by continuously welding
steel plate & have the advantage of flat internal profiles.

But...do you really need a steel beam? A 6ft span is the width of many
house windows & often all they have above them is a concrete beam. My
guess is that 150(high) x 100 steel reinforced concrete beam will do
your job (NB that's a guess which needs confirming) - perhaps even
75x100 might do. These are readily available from most heavyside
builders merchants & cheaper than steel. You can cut them fairly
easily with a stone cutting saw disc. As the builders merchant for an
application sheet for more details. You might find a concrete beam
easier to bond into an existing masonry wall.

Pros & cons: you can weld onto a steel beam, drill a hole through it
with ease (if the drill is sharp) & tap it for a screw thread, whilst a
concrete beam can really be only lightly drilled for wall plugs.

Finally you ought to inspect the supporting pillars for integrity -
sound brick/blockwork & mortar? Any chance an abutting wall could
displace either pillar in any direction once the opening is made? Is
there enough foundation concrete under the pillars to accept the
altered load profile?

When it comes to inserting the beam you must at all costs avoid
progressive collapse of the brick/block layers above the opening. If
soft lime mortar was used that is quite likely. You will need to
support the bricks/blocks with short joist spars pushed through &
supported by Acrow props. OTOH many houses were built in the 50s - 70s
with hard cement mortar which holds blocks together like araldite and
you won't need any additional support whilst you insert the beam - just
don't let anyone jump on the flooor above ; - ) Actually, even if
there is soft lime mortar you don't need great stout props - just
making sure with a simple supporting frame that *NO* brick or block
falls away is usually enough to keep the wall up for the duration.

HTH
..

"jim" wrote in message
ps.com...

jon wrote:
Apologies if this is a real common/stupid question, but,,

Sorry to be butting in at this late stage but there's no stupid
questions. Some of the most apparently inane questions posted on this
newsgroup have generated the most profoundly insightful postings.
We've all benefited : - ))

/snip/

make the gap anywhere between 5 - 7 feet. I would therefore assume I
would
need an RSJ, at which point I would need a structural engineers report to
calculate rsj size etc, and then I would also need to submit a building
notice. I will be doing all the building work myself.

Questions:

Do I really need a structural engineer,

No: most people who've followed an HNC/HND/degree engineering course
should know (in theory) what calcs are needed.


or is it possible to obtain some
piece of software that will calculate the correct rsj size etc at which
point I can then submit the building notice myself.

You can get the formulae from eng ref books, textbooks on structures -
if you google for calcs on floor joists & the beams to hold them up on
this group you'e sure to find enough pointers. Alternatively many RSJ
suppliers will do the calcs for you for free on the basis they will
supply the beam - just ask for a quote. The calcs are simple & you
barely need a spreadsheet. What perhaps is wanted more is the ability
to look at the calc result & then the structure & feel reasonably
assured you've got the right answer. Or come back with the data below
& see if this is your lucky day


If I do need a structural engineer, is there any work that I should do
prior
to him arriving, i.e. do I need to reveal the foundations where the
supporting parts (ends) of the RSJ sit on the wall, etc.

You will need to assess the weight of masonry to be held up, and the
weight (including imposed load) of that part of any floor or roof held
up Remember the self weight of your beam has also to be taken into
account. An SE would assess that for you. However if you d-i-y then
you SHOULD diy BOTH the loading & the beam calcs (ie you need to
understand and be confident in both aspects - don't put rubbish data
into good formulae or vice versa) & preferably have someone look it
over - also if possible look out for a comparable hole & compare.

BTW RSJ (Rolled Steel Joist) is mostly nowadays a colloquial term for
any steel beam. Strictly it means just what it says - a joist rolled
from a hot steel ingot in 1 piece in a steel mill. They have sloping
internal profiles and are still obtainable, however most things called
'RSJ's are now Universal Beams. UBs are made by continuously welding
steel plate & have the advantage of flat internal profiles.

But...do you really need a steel beam? A 6ft span is the width of many
house windows & often all they have above them is a concrete beam. My
guess is that 150(high) x 100 steel reinforced concrete beam will do
your job (NB that's a guess which needs confirming) - perhaps even
75x100 might do. These are readily available from most heavyside
builders merchants & cheaper than steel. You can cut them fairly
easily with a stone cutting saw disc. As the builders merchant for an
application sheet for more details. You might find a concrete beam
easier to bond into an existing masonry wall.

Pros & cons: you can weld onto a steel beam, drill a hole through it
with ease (if the drill is sharp) & tap it for a screw thread, whilst a
concrete beam can really be only lightly drilled for wall plugs.

Finally you ought to inspect the supporting pillars for integrity -
sound brick/blockwork & mortar? Any chance an abutting wall could
displace either pillar in any direction once the opening is made? Is
there enough foundation concrete under the pillars to accept the
altered load profile?

When it comes to inserting the beam you must at all costs avoid
progressive collapse of the brick/block layers above the opening. If
soft lime mortar was used that is quite likely. You will need to
support the bricks/blocks with short joist spars pushed through &
supported by Acrow props. OTOH many houses were built in the 50s - 70s
with hard cement mortar which holds blocks together like araldite and
you won't need any additional support whilst you insert the beam - just
don't let anyone jump on the flooor above ; - ) Actually, even if
there is soft lime mortar you don't need great stout props - just
making sure with a simple supporting frame that *NO* brick or block
falls away is usually enough to keep the wall up for the duration.

HTH
.


Sorry Jim, only just came across this. Thanks for the very comprehensive
reply. However the Mother-in-Law has changed her mind and decided not to
knock through. Still some very usefull info if she changes her mind again,
or for future googlers.

Jon