Hello,

Are all sds plus chisels created equal or are some better than others?
I wondered whether a cheap 40mm one was just as good as the Bosch
version that costs three times as much?

Are the expensive ones made of a harder metal or do you just pay for
the name?

Can they all be sharpened in a bench grinder when blunt?

Thanks,
Stephen.

Stephen wrote:

Are all sds plus chisels created equal or are some better than others?
I wondered whether a cheap 40mm one was just as good as the Bosch
version that costs three times as much?

Are the expensive ones made of a harder metal or do you just pay for
the name?


I bought a cheap set from Aldi, thinking I could buy a better set when
they wore out. But despite getting a lot of hard use, they didn't
wear out.


Can they all be sharpened in a bench grinder when blunt?


Yes, the ones from Aldi can.

Stephen wrote:

Are all sds plus chisels created equal or are some better than others?
I wondered whether a cheap 40mm one was just as good as the Bosch
version that costs three times as much?

Some are better than others, but you can't tell based on price alone.
Most of the big name manufacturers chisels are the same as non-name
Chinese brands in my experience. The chisels I bought from a local tool
store were much tougher than the Bosch set that came with my SDS drill.

There's also a wider range available from decent tool stores, and it's
possible to make a much better job with the right tools.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Stephen wrote:

Are all sds plus chisels created equal or are some better than others?
I wondered whether a cheap 40mm one was just as good as the Bosch
version that costs three times as much?

Some are better than others, but you can't tell based on price alone.
Most of the big name manufacturers chisels are the same as non-name
Chinese brands in my experience. The chisels I bought from a local tool
store were much tougher than the Bosch set that came with my SDS drill.

There's also a wider range available from decent tool stores, and it's
possible to make a much better job with the right tools.


I've had the opposite experience. I've tried cheap drills, chisels and
screwdriver bits. Cheap drills always bent on first use, chisels blunted
quickly and the screwdriver bits rounded off straight away. I then decided
to buy 'decent' bits. I got a really nice set of Dewalt SDS masonary bits
which are the dogs ********, they'll go through engineering brick and
concrete with ease. The same with Dewalt screwdriver bits, they have lasted
for ages. Bosch screwdriver bits are really good too.
I also bought a set of Clarke SDS chisels, which although they have had a
lot of use, still haven't needed sharpening yet.
So, I really wouldn't recommend the cheapest chisels as they are usually of
softer metal, nor would I go for the most expensive.
It depends upon how much and how often you intend to use them I suppose.
Wavey Dave

Dave wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Stephen wrote:

Are all sds plus chisels created equal or are some better than others?
I wondered whether a cheap 40mm one was just as good as the Bosch
version that costs three times as much?

Some are better than others, but you can't tell based on price alone.
Most of the big name manufacturers chisels are the same as non-name
Chinese brands in my experience. The chisels I bought from a local tool
store were much tougher than the Bosch set that came with my SDS drill.

There's also a wider range available from decent tool stores, and it's
possible to make a much better job with the right tools.


I've had the opposite experience.

I don't think you have, or you have misunderstood what I said.

I've tried cheap drills, chisels and screwdriver bits. Cheap drills
always bent on first use, chisels blunted quickly and the screwdriver bits
rounded off straight away.

Umm hmm, where did I advise anyone to buy "cheap" steels or bits?

I then decided to buy 'decent' bits. I got a really nice set of Dewalt
SDS masonary bits which are the dogs ********, they'll go through
engineering brick and concrete with ease. The same with Dewalt
screwdriver bits, they have lasted for ages. Bosch screwdriver bits are
really good too.

I found Bosch to be of variable quality, but of invariant price.

I also bought a set of Clarke SDS chisels, which although
they have had a lot of use, still haven't needed sharpening yet. So, I
really wouldn't recommend the cheapest chisels as they are usually of
softer metal,

I didn't recommend the cheapest chisels.

nor would I go for the most expensive.


I also pointed out that price alone is not an indicator of quality.

It depends upon how much and how often you intend to use them I suppose.

So, your experience is not "the opposite", it's "the same".

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
I also pointed out that price alone is not an indicator of quality.

Indeed. I bought a set from Lidl a few months ago and they appear to be at
least the equal as the originals which came with my DeWalt.

Lidl also sold sets of HSS twist drills - 0.5 - 10mm in 0.5 steps - in a
steel case for quite a bit less than Screwfix, and I can't fault the
quality.

I'm beginning to like Lidl so much I'm going to Argos to get a silver
choker...

--
*There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
I also pointed out that price alone is not an indicator of quality.

Indeed. I bought a set from Lidl a few months ago and they appear to be at
least the equal as the originals which came with my DeWalt.

I bought several boxes of SDS steels and drill bits from Lidl for my
forrin building project. I intended to throw them away as they wore out,
but so far, despite 12 hours per day use not even the drill bits have
worn out.

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
I also pointed out that price alone is not an indicator of quality.

Indeed. I bought a set from Lidl a few months ago and they appear to
be at least the equal as the originals which came with my DeWalt.

I bought several boxes of SDS steels and drill bits from Lidl for my
forrin building project. I intended to throw them away as they wore out,
but so far, despite 12 hours per day use not even the drill bits have
worn out.

What disguise did you wear to visit Lidl?

--
*What hair colour do they put on the driver's license of a bald man? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
I also pointed out that price alone is not an indicator of quality.

Indeed. I bought a set from Lidl a few months ago and they appear to
be at least the equal as the originals which came with my DeWalt.

I bought several boxes of SDS steels and drill bits from Lidl for my
forrin building project. I intended to throw them away as they wore out,
but so far, despite 12 hours per day use not even the drill bits have
worn out.

What disguise did you wear to visit Lidl?


I often see professional people I know shopping at Lidl for items such
as smoked salmon, Parma and Serrano ham, lobster ... the list goes on.

No need for a disguise. ;-)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
I also pointed out that price alone is not an indicator of quality.

Indeed. I bought a set from Lidl a few months ago and they appear to
be at least the equal as the originals which came with my DeWalt.

I bought several boxes of SDS steels and drill bits from Lidl for my
forrin building project. I intended to throw them away as they wore out,
but so far, despite 12 hours per day use not even the drill bits have
worn out.

What disguise did you wear to visit Lidl?

I grew a grey pony tail and carried a microphone. The place is full of
sound recordists from "independent" production companies.

Bruce wrote:


I often see professional people I know shopping at Lidl for items such
as smoked salmon, Parma and Serrano ham, lobster ... the list goes on.

I wouldn't touch any of that stuff at Lidl. I made the mistake (once) of
trying prawns from Lidl. Over-salted ****e. I've also tried their smoked
salmon shudder. I get that sort of thing at the local fishmonger or
Waitrose if I need to shop on a Sunday. Lidl's tools are OK if one shops
carefully, but I don't put those in my mouth.

(Steve Firth) wrote:

I wouldn't touch any of that stuff at Lidl.


Your loss.

Bruce wrote:

(Steve Firth) wrote:

I wouldn't touch any of that stuff at Lidl.


Your loss.

Not at all, unless you count avoiding food poisoning as "a loss". I
realise that the majority of Brits would eat a dog turd if it was dusted
with icing sugar. And I take it you're happy to be part of the majority.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Bruce wrote:

(Steve Firth) wrote:

I wouldn't touch any of that stuff at Lidl.


Your loss.

Not at all, unless you count avoiding food poisoning as "a loss".

Not aware of any food poisoning cases traced to Lidl purchases - have you a
reference?
The staff in one Lidl's store in Sweden were poisoning food they put in the
dumpster but that's hardly company policy - a few other nebulous Google
returns. A Google search for "waitrose food poisoning" reveals more
concrete ones however.

I realise that the majority of Brits would eat a dog turd if it was dusted
with icing sugar.

No they wouldn't


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Bob Mannix wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Bruce wrote:

(Steve Firth) wrote:

I wouldn't touch any of that stuff at Lidl.


Your loss.

Not at all, unless you count avoiding food poisoning as "a loss".

Not aware of any food poisoning cases traced to Lidl purchases - have you a
reference?

I have references to Lidl adulterating food, yes. I've posted them here
before.

The staff in one Lidl's store in Sweden were poisoning food they put in the
dumpster but that's hardly company policy - a few other nebulous Google
returns. A Google search for "waitrose food poisoning" reveals more
concrete ones however.

Umm hmm.

I realise that the majority of Brits would eat a dog turd if it was dusted
with icing sugar.

No they wouldn't

Oh yes they would.

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
What disguise did you wear to visit Lidl?

I grew a grey pony tail and carried a microphone. The place is full of
sound recordists from "independent" production companies.

Not surprised they're shopping rather than working if they look like that.
Soooo '70s.

I do work with one boom op who might fit the bill - apart from the grey
bit. But then his other job is the bass guitarist for the Bay City Rollers
- so he's entitled to be a bit eccentric.

--
*Isn't it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do "practice?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I do work with one boom op who might fit the bill - apart from the grey
bit. But then his other job is the bass guitarist for the Bay City Rollers
- so he's entitled to be a bit eccentric.

I've been filmed for a documentary that's going out next year. I've had
several days of being followed around by a cameraman and a recordist
(and a director, continuity girl, author, and even god help us a lawyer)
the recordists have all had grey ponytails.

Unless it's the same one changing his face fungus each day, of course.

"Bob Mannix" wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Bruce wrote:

(Steve Firth) wrote:

I wouldn't touch any of that stuff at Lidl.


Your loss.

Not at all, unless you count avoiding food poisoning as "a loss".

Not aware of any food poisoning cases traced to Lidl purchases - have you a
reference?
The staff in one Lidl's store in Sweden were poisoning food they put in the
dumpster but that's hardly company policy - a few other nebulous Google
returns. A Google search for "waitrose food poisoning" reveals more
concrete ones however.

I realise that the majority of Brits would eat a dog turd if it was dusted
with icing sugar.

No they wouldn't


I take Mr Firth's comment's about food poisoning at Lidl quite
seriously. I have no doubt that he will wish to contact Lidl UK
customer service personally to discuss his concerns:
Tel: 0870 444 1234

Bruce wrote:

I take Mr Firth's comment's about food poisoning at Lidl quite
seriously. I have no doubt that he will wish to contact Lidl UK
customer service personally to discuss his concerns:

Perhaps Lidl can find the time to explain why they passed off
adulterated product as fit for human consumption? So far they haven't
responded to me, or to any of the journalists who have asked them about
their practices.

And perhaps you could get your head out of your arse? The fact that you
want to eat cheaply does not mean that the evidence of Lidl's chicanery
goes away.

(Steve Firth) wrote:
Bruce wrote:

I take Mr Firth's comment's about food poisoning at Lidl quite
seriously. I have no doubt that he will wish to contact Lidl UK
customer service personally to discuss his concerns:

Perhaps Lidl can find the time to explain why they passed off
adulterated product as fit for human consumption? So far they haven't
responded to me, or to any of the journalists who have asked them about
their practices.


I will be quite happy to pass your contact details, together with
copies of your postings on here, to Lidl UK's Legal Department.

Bruce wrote:

I have no doubt that he will wish to contact Lidl UK
customer service personally to discuss his concerns:
Tel: 0870 444 1234


http://ie.euronewspages.com/irish-in...idl-outlet-ord
ered-to-close-over-food-safety-concerns
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1248338.ece
http://www.northumberland.gov.uk/BB_News.asp?BB_Bulletin_ID=1893
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...d-water-off-sh
elves-over-bacteria-scare-1574932.html
http://www.szpi.gov.cz/en/docDetail....cType=ART&nid=
11374
http://the-news.net/cgi-bin/article.pl?id=658-24
http://www.mdrgf.org/pdf/Supermarche...(20%20Nov).pdf

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DQA/is_2000_Feb_17/ai_59870871
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=436605
http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Q...-outbreak-from
-ground-beef-suspected-in-child-s-death


And how does Lidl treat its staff?

http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2006/07/

Perhaps you and the other people who don't care what they put in their
mouth should be writing to Lidl to ask some questions?

Bruce wrote:

(Steve Firth) wrote:
Bruce wrote:

I take Mr Firth's comment's about food poisoning at Lidl quite
seriously. I have no doubt that he will wish to contact Lidl UK
customer service personally to discuss his concerns:

Perhaps Lidl can find the time to explain why they passed off
adulterated product as fit for human consumption? So far they haven't
responded to me, or to any of the journalists who have asked them about
their practices.


I will be quite happy to pass your contact details, together with
copies of your postings on here, to Lidl UK's Legal Department.

Oh bless, what's this, trying to obtain silence via threats?

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Bruce wrote:

I have no doubt that he will wish to contact Lidl UK
customer service personally to discuss his concerns:
Tel: 0870 444 1234


http://ie.euronewspages.com/irish-in...idl-outlet-ord
ered-to-close-over-food-safety-concerns
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1248338.ece
http://www.northumberland.gov.uk/BB_News.asp?BB_Bulletin_ID=1893
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...d-water-off-sh
elves-over-bacteria-scare-1574932.html
http://www.szpi.gov.cz/en/docDetail....cType=ART&nid=
11374
http://the-news.net/cgi-bin/article.pl?id=658-24
http://www.mdrgf.org/pdf/Supermarche...(20%20Nov).pdf

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DQA/is_2000_Feb_17/ai_59870871
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=436605
http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Q...-outbreak-from
-ground-beef-suspected-in-child-s-death



Interesting and of concern but these were all supplier problems and your
earlier post referred to "Lidl adulterating food", which is not supported by
any of the above. Supplier problems have affected all supermarkets.

And how does Lidl treat its staff?

http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2006/07/

A different matter, important for different reasons.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I do work with one boom op who might fit the bill - apart from the grey
bit. But then his other job is the bass guitarist for the Bay City
Rollers
- so he's entitled to be a bit eccentric.

I've been filmed for a documentary that's going out next year. I've had
several days of being followed around by a cameraman and a recordist
(and a director, continuity girl, author, and even god help us a lawyer)
the recordists have all had grey ponytails.

Unless it's the same one changing his face fungus each day, of course.

What documentary and when?

Adam

Bob Mannix wrote:

Interesting and of concern but these were all supplier problems and your
earlier post referred to "Lidl adulterating food",

No it didn't. It referred to the passing off of adulterated food, which
is what has happened. In the particular case of olive oil, sold under an
own-brand label it's difficult to know how a supermarket could claim to
be an innocent victim of the supplier when the price charged in the
supermarket is below the cost of production of the product in question.

which is not supported by any of the above. Supplier problems have
affected all supermarkets.

The products in question were mostly "own brand". Even if they were not,
in English law, the supplier carries the can for the quality of goods
that they supply. Donahue vs Stevenson. Trying to claim that it's all
the fault of someone else is ignoring UK precedent about who carries the
can for the supply of adulterated/contaminated goods.

If supermarkets wish to avoid the consequences of "rogue" suppliers then
the supermarket should have appropriate quality control processes in
place to monitor the performance of their suppliers. They cannot duck
responsibility, as you seem to wish them to, by claiming that someone
else let them down.

ARWadsworth wrote:

What documentary and when?

None of your ****ing business.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Bob Mannix wrote:

Interesting and of concern but these were all supplier problems and your
earlier post referred to "Lidl adulterating food",

No it didn't. It referred to the passing off of adulterated food, which
is what has happened.

Your post at 13:26 today said:

Not aware of any food poisoning cases traced to Lidl purchases - have you
a
reference?

I have references to Lidl adulterating food, yes. I've posted them here
before.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Bob Mannix wrote:

Your post at 13:26 today said:

Not aware of any food poisoning cases traced to Lidl purchases - have
you a reference?

I take it you now admit that food poisoning cases have been traced to
Lidl purchases (including the death of a child)?

I have references to Lidl adulterating food, yes. I've posted them here
before.

Oh righto. And?

Are you denying the facts in that case? Would you have been happier if I
had used the terms in this article?

http://www.oliveoilsource.com/script...o=item&p_id=51


You may well like the products from this supermarket. If you do, all
power to your elbow. I won't be eating anything they offer.

However you seem to be either blinkered or determined to mislead with
your "Not aware of any food poisoning cases traced to Lidl purchases"
when there are documented cases. Indeed you went as far as to speak
about "nebulous Google returns", when the evidence is far from nebulous.

You've also attempted to shift the responsibility from the supermarket
to the "suppliers" when (a) this is a denial of liability in UK tort law
(b) you're conveniently overlooking the fact that the products in
question are own-label products. If Lidl is not responsible for own
label products, who is?

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Bob Mannix wrote:

Your post at 13:26 today said:

Not aware of any food poisoning cases traced to Lidl purchases - have
you a reference?

I take it you now admit that food poisoning cases have been traced to
Lidl purchases (including the death of a child)?

Yes, along with many other supermarkets and food outlets and caterers - but
then I never said I didn't, I said I wasn't aware of any and asked for the
references which you gave.


I have references to Lidl adulterating food, yes. I've posted them here
before.

Oh righto. And?

I said you had accused Lidl's of adulterating food. You said you hadn't.


Are you denying the facts in that case? Would you have been happier if I
had used the terms in this article?

I am denying no facts merely trying to get at them, nor am I happier or
unhappier.


http://www.oliveoilsource.com/script...o=item&p_id=51


You may well like the products from this supermarket. If you do, all
power to your elbow. I won't be eating anything they offer.

However you seem to be either blinkered or determined to mislead with
your "Not aware of any food poisoning cases traced to Lidl purchases"
when there are documented cases. Indeed you went as far as to speak
about "nebulous Google returns", when the evidence is far from nebulous.

Many/most of the cases were not Lidl only suppliers and the cases clearly
represented a food health problem lower down ( much like BSE, salmonella in
poultry etc).


You've also attempted to shift the responsibility from the supermarket
to the "suppliers" when (a) this is a denial of liability in UK tort law
(b) you're conveniently overlooking the fact that the products in
question are own-label products. If Lidl is not responsible for own
label products, who is?

I didn't say they didn't carry the responsibility under the sale of goods
(and any other) legislation but "adulterating food" is an even more serious
charge, implying Lidl are taking stuff from their suppliers and then
modifying or adding to it in a way that is unhealthy (in this context) for
their customers. I don't believe any mass retailers do this. It is true that
supply chain problems may result from low pricing which is Lidl's market
sector but if the contract is to provide food of a certain quality, no
supermarkets have the resources to test everything and suppliers have to
take their responsibility. "Own label" makes not a jot of difference to
anything above.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Bob Mannix wrote:

"adulterating food" is an even more serious charge, implying Lidl are
taking stuff from their suppliers and then modifying or adding to it in a
way that is unhealthy (in this context) for their customers. I don't
believe any mass retailers do this. It is true that supply chain problems
may result from low pricing which is Lidl's market sector but if the
contract is to provide food of a certain quality, no supermarkets have the
resources to test everything and suppliers have to take their
responsibility. "Own label" makes not a jot of difference to anything
above.

I take it you haven't bothered to read the report then?

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Bob Mannix wrote:

"adulterating food" is an even more serious charge, implying Lidl are
taking stuff from their suppliers and then modifying or adding to it in a
way that is unhealthy (in this context) for their customers. I don't
believe any mass retailers do this. It is true that supply chain problems
may result from low pricing which is Lidl's market sector but if the
contract is to provide food of a certain quality, no supermarkets have
the
resources to test everything and suppliers have to take their
responsibility. "Own label" makes not a jot of difference to anything
above.

I take it you haven't bothered to read the report then?

Well if you are referring to the Olive oil report, yes I have. It deals
nowhere with adulteration but with mislabelling as "[extra] virgin olive
oil" when it isn't. While this is clearly illegal, it has nothing to do with
adulteration and even less with food poisoning. The consideration of the
qualities of various supermarkets is not enhanced by egging the stories into
something they are not. There are some things I would buy at Lidls and some
things I would not. "Extra virgin olive oil" clearly isn't (or wasn't) and I
wouldn't buy such a product there anyway. Again the fact that it is own
label is irrelevant, as I said, it's the fact it is labelled "extra virgin"
whatever the rest of the label says.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

In message , Steve Firth
wrote
Bob Mannix wrote:

Interesting and of concern but these were all supplier problems and your
earlier post referred to "Lidl adulterating food",

No it didn't. It referred to the passing off of adulterated food, which
is what has happened. In the particular case of olive oil, sold under an
own-brand label it's difficult to know how a supermarket could claim to
be an innocent victim of the supplier when the price charged in the
supermarket is below the cost of production of the product in question.

The link you gave us last time told us that some "experts" couldn't tell
the difference between the best quality 'extra virgin olive oil' and
what was on sale in Lidl and Aldi. They had to resort to some obscure
extra chemical testing to find out that the oil had been heat treated,
which in isn't necessarily a bad thing.

On price, I found in a few minutes of web searching that the wholesale
price of extra virgin olive oil in both Spain and Australia was well
below the price that these supermarkets were charging. The cost of
supply isn't below the cost of production.

Your vendetta against Lidl and Aldi seems to based on the fact that they
can sell some products at a lower price than the cost of production from
in some EU peasant farming communities. Wake up and smell the coffee,
European consumers are no longer willing to pay high prices to subsidise
some inefficient olive growers.

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
ARWadsworth wrote:

What documentary and when?

None of your ****ing business.

A documentary about tourettes perhaps?

Adam

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
I do work with one boom op who might fit the bill - apart from the
grey bit. But then his other job is the bass guitarist for the Bay
City Rollers - so he's entitled to be a bit eccentric.

I've been filmed for a documentary that's going out next year. I've had
several days of being followed around by a cameraman and a recordist
(and a director, continuity girl, author, and even god help us a lawyer)
the recordists have all had grey ponytails.

I wouldn't know about doccos. I really only do drama these days. And I can
assure you I don't know of any male recordist with a pony tail out of the
many I see around.

--
*If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Bob Mannix wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Bob Mannix wrote:

"adulterating food" is an even more serious charge, implying Lidl are
taking stuff from their suppliers and then modifying or adding to it in a
way that is unhealthy (in this context) for their customers. I don't
believe any mass retailers do this. It is true that supply chain problems
may result from low pricing which is Lidl's market sector but if the
contract is to provide food of a certain quality, no supermarkets have
the
resources to test everything and suppliers have to take their
responsibility. "Own label" makes not a jot of difference to anything
above.

I take it you haven't bothered to read the report then?

Well if you are referring to the Olive oil report, yes I have. It deals
nowhere with adulteration but with mislabelling as "[extra] virgin olive
oil" when it isn't.

Then you haven't read the report carefully enough. The report states of
the oil that the results indicate adulteration (addition of a processed
olive oil which is not "extra virgin"). What else does one refer to the
blending of a food product with an inferior quality of food as if not
"adulteration"?

While this is clearly illegal, it has nothing to do with adulteration and
even less with food poisoning.

It has everything to do with adulteration. No one claimed that the olive
oil lead to food poisoning, the food poisoning was a separate issue,
covered by a separate report.

The consideration of the qualities of various supermarkets is not enhanced
by egging the stories into something they are not.

No one has done such a thing, I suggest that you read the article again,
and this time that you actually get to the end of it.

There are some things I would buy at Lidls and some things I would not.
"Extra virgin olive oil" clearly isn't (or wasn't) and I wouldn't buy such
a product there anyway.

What you would or would not do is irrelevant to the issue of whether the
supermarket in question sold adulterated food.

Again the fact that it is own label is irrelevant,

That's profoundly incorrect. For an own-label product the supermarket is
responsible for every aspect of the product. It is not, as you keep
attempting to portray it, as if some supplier foisted a product upon an
unknowing innocent. The supermarket knows how much it pays for the
product. The buyers must know exactly what that product wholesales for.
The article states clearly "In supermarkets "Extra Virgin olive oils"
are offered at dumping prices."

You do know what "dumping prices" means, I take it? Supermarket buyers
certainly do.

as I said, it's the fact it is labelled "extra virgin" whatever the rest
of the label says.

It's the fact that it consisted of a blend of oils which were not
exclusively "extra virgin". If it had been a low quality "extra virgin"
then I would not state that it had been adulterated. However it was a
blend of oil, probably "extra virgin" with other processed oils which by
definition cannot be "extra virgin" sold as "extra virgin" hence
"adulterated".

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the term "adulterated"?

"to prepare for sale by replacing more valuable with less valuable or
inert ingredients"

Are you going to continue to argue that the oil in question was not
adulterated?



Since you're not someone who is used to buying good quality olive oil,
and you're certainly not someone who knows about the organoleptic
qualities of olive oil, I'll point out that there are more clues than
just the chemical analyses about the adulterated nature of the oil in
that report.

Note the tasting notes for the Aubocassa oil in that report:

"Freshly cut grass, forest honey, ripe tomatoes, bell pepper. Mild
bitter-walnut taste and a peppery -savory aftertaste."

That's a typical result for an extra-virgin olive oil. The pressing of
an extra-virgin olive oil preserves a complex flavour and even cheap
extra-virgin oils have those complex notes. The tasting notes for the
other oils state:

"slight olfactory off¬notes, rancid and metallic taste."

and

"Distinct olfactory off-notes, metallic and winey taste, muddy."

Terms like "rancid", "off-notes" and "winey" indicate that the oil has
started to break down, either as a consequence of poor storage or simply
of age. Those tastes should not be present, indeed cannot be present, in
an EVOO which has been produced in clean conditions and stored
appropriately for no more than 12 months before sale. Their existence
makes it clear that either the oil on sale is itself old, or has been
diluted with old oil. The lack of complex flavours makes it clear that
the oil is *not* EVOO or has so little EVOO in it that the flavour has
been diluted out.

You can make all the handwavyness you want about suppliers, your
personal preferences etc. but an independent *German* source has found
results that flatly contradict your statements.

Alan wrote:

Your vendetta against Lidl and Aldi

Does not exist, other than in your imagination. My "vendetta" if there
is one is against poor quality food.

You have also misrepresented the Feinschmecker report.

As to your claims about the wholesale prices of extra-virging olive
oils, when I asked you to give a URL to your sources, you ran away. And
your claiming that Spanish olive oil can be bought cheaper than Italian
is not entirely true, and you ignore the prices charged by the
bucket-shop supermarkets.

The German supermarkets sell olive oil at ¤2.60 per litre. The cost of
production is ¤6.50 per litre. You whine about other countries, but
ignore the fact that the bucket shops are selling this oil as Italian.
If they honestly sold it as "Spanish" then I would have no issue with
their sales techniques, but I would still point out that they have been
detected misdescribing the product.

Again, if you bother to read the review you will find examples of
honestly described Spanish olive oil being sold in supermarkets and the
tests conducted on those showed that they were indeed good quality EVOO.
However the prices charged were ¤20.00 per litre for Spanish EVOO.
That's a fair price for a good product and sustainable.

But over to you for your sources, which have been remarkable only by
their absence so far.

In message , Steve Firth
wrote
Alan wrote:

Your vendetta against Lidl and Aldi

Does not exist, other than in your imagination. My "vendetta" if there
is one is against poor quality food.

You give the impression that anything with a price tag you believe is
cheap must be poor quality.

You have also misrepresented the Feinschmecker report.

I read what it says.

As to your claims about the wholesale prices of extra-virging olive
oils, when I asked you to give a URL to your sources, you ran away.

No, I just gave up when you resorted to personal abuse.

And
your claiming that Spanish olive oil can be bought cheaper than Italian
is not entirely true,

So please give us the official wholesale figures (with the source)

and you ignore the prices charged by the
bucket-shop supermarkets.

The prices for the crop and those charged by supermarkets were in line
with the profit margins the supermarkets could expect to be made.


The German supermarkets sell olive oil at ‚¬2.60 per litre. The cost of
production is ‚¬6.50 per litre.

As I pointed out the cost of production in most of the real world wasn't
6.50 Euros - it was well below the price being charged at retail
outlets. From countries outside of EU the price was also a lot lower
that the final selling price in Aldi.

You whine about other countries, but
ignore the fact that the bucket shops are selling this oil as Italian.

Why do you keep insisting that the oil sold in Aldi is Italian? Aldi do
not make that claim. Even if the oil was imported into Italy and then
sold on it wouldn't be illegal to sell it as Italian. The problem with
identifying Irish pork on the supermarket shelves was as a result of it
being exported to around 25 countries and then processed/repackaged and
then being re-labelled as coming from somewhere else.

If they honestly sold it as "Spanish" then I would have no issue with
their sales techniques, but I would still point out that they have been
detected misdescribing the product.

Again, if you bother to read the review you will find examples of
honestly described Spanish olive oil being sold in supermarkets and the
tests conducted on those showed that they were indeed good quality EVOO.
However the prices charged were ‚¬20.00 per litre for Spanish EVOO.
That's a fair price for a good product and sustainable.

Again you equate price with quality. Supermarkets often work on single
percentage point profit margins on food items. Your figure of 6.5 Euro
for production and 20 Euros for sale is a large profit margin.

Common sense should tell you that if there a big increase in products on
the British supermarket shelves containing olive oil , and being
advertised on TV for their health benefits, it is more likely to be as
result of cheap oil prices.
--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

(Steve Firth) wrote:

Alan wrote:

Your vendetta against Lidl and Aldi

Does not exist, other than in your imagination. My "vendetta" if there
is one is against poor quality food.


It can only be a vendetta, because what other possible explanation is
there for slandering a company based on non-existent "evidence".

And please don't re-assert that you have "evidence". Proof by
assertion is no proof. You have some unconnected assertions that are
backed up by no-one and nothing more reliable than slander.

(Steve Firth) wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:

What documentary and when?

None of your ****ing business.


Charming.

Alan wrote:

In message , Steve Firth
wrote
Alan wrote:

Your vendetta against Lidl and Aldi

Does not exist, other than in your imagination. My "vendetta" if there
is one is against poor quality food.

You give the impression that anything with a price tag you believe is
cheap must be poor quality.


So you admit your "vendetta" claim was a lie.

You have also misrepresented the Feinschmecker report.

I read what it says.

In that case you failed to understand it.

As to your claims about the wholesale prices of extra-virging olive
oils, when I asked you to give a URL to your sources, you ran away.

No, I just gave up when you resorted to personal abuse.

Another lie, at no time have you posted your claimed source.

And
your claiming that Spanish olive oil can be bought cheaper than Italian
is not entirely true,

So please give us the official wholesale figures (with the source)

After you, you claimed to have an official source for wholesale olive
oil prices. I've given you mine before, the price I can get for
wholesale of my own produce. You've made a claim, and you run away from
stating what your source is. Until you validate your *prior* claim your
guff remains guff.

and you ignore the prices charged by the bucket-shop supermarkets.

The prices for the crop and those charged by supermarkets were in line
with the profit margins the supermarkets could expect to be made.

Until you put a price on those claims and give a source, then your
statement remains bluster.

The German supermarkets sell olive oil at ¤2.60 per litre. The cost of
production is ¤6.50 per litre.

As I pointed out the cost of production in most of the real world wasn't
6.50 Euros - it was well below the price being charged at retail
outlets. From countries outside of EU the price was also a lot lower
that the final selling price in Aldi.

You didn't "point out", you made a claim without supporting evidence.

You whine about other countries, but
ignore the fact that the bucket shops are selling this oil as Italian.

Why do you keep insisting that the oil sold in Aldi is Italian? Aldi do
not make that claim.

The oil in question is sold as "Luccese", Lucca is a defined area within
Italy with DOP status.

Even if the oil was imported into Italy and then
sold on it wouldn't be illegal to sell it as Italian.

Wrong.

The problem with identifying Irish pork on the supermarket shelves was as
a result of it being exported to around 25 countries and then
processed/repackaged and then being re-labelled as coming from somewhere
else.

Was the pork a DOP product? No. So your point is irrelevant.

If they honestly sold it as "Spanish" then I would have no issue with
their sales techniques, but I would still point out that they have been
detected misdescribing the product.

Again, if you bother to read the review you will find examples of
honestly described Spanish olive oil being sold in supermarkets and the
tests conducted on those showed that they were indeed good quality EVOO.
However the prices charged were ¤20.00 per litre for Spanish EVOO.
That's a fair price for a good product and sustainable.

Again you equate price with quality.

No I don't. You lie. I said no such thing. I pointed out that the
product was good quality. It was demonstrably good quality. It also
happened to cost ¤20.00 per litre which is a representative price for
good quality oil of either Spanish or Italian origin.

Supermarkets often work on single percentage point profit margins on food
items. Your figure of 6.5 Euro for production and 20 Euros for sale is a
large profit margin.

You appear to be unaware that the bottle, label, transport, all cost
money.

Common sense should tell you that if there a big increase in products on
the British supermarket shelves containing olive oil , and being
advertised on TV for their health benefits, it is more likely to be as
result of cheap oil prices.

That's what we call a non-sequitur.

Common sense should tell you that a commodity which has a limited supply
can only rise in price if demand increases.