We are planning to convert a built-in garage into a kitchen - since it's
bigger than the extisting kitchen (which will become a utility room) and we
now have a separate detached garage.

Can some kind soul please tell me what the implications of the latest
electrical regs (17th Edition, or whatever) are likely to be?

The current kitchen has a dedicated cooker feed - which I plan to divert to
the new one - and has fixed appliances (fridge, dishwasher, etc.) plugged
into 13A sockets on one of the ring mains. All circuits are protected by
circuit breakers in the CU - but not RCDs. There are plenty of power outlets
in the old garage, which can be moved around to suit.

One kitchen firm we've talked to is telling us that each appliance now needs
a dedicated feed (presumably RCD protected?) so that if one trips it doesn't
take the rest out. Is that correct? If so, that may mean replacing the CU -
'cos there aren't any spare ways or any RCD protection at present. If this
is the case, what are the implications for the rest of the house?

Any informed comments will be greatly appreciated.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored..
Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks. PLEASE REPLY TO
NEWSGROUP!

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
We are planning to convert a built-in garage into a kitchen - since it's
bigger than the extisting kitchen (which will become a utility room) and
we
now have a separate detached garage.

Can some kind soul please tell me what the implications of the latest
electrical regs (17th Edition, or whatever) are likely to be?

The current kitchen has a dedicated cooker feed - which I plan to divert
to
the new one - and has fixed appliances (fridge, dishwasher, etc.) plugged
into 13A sockets on one of the ring mains. All circuits are protected by
circuit breakers in the CU - but not RCDs. There are plenty of power
outlets
in the old garage, which can be moved around to suit.

One kitchen firm we've talked to is telling us that each appliance now
needs
a dedicated feed (presumably RCD protected?) so that if one trips it
doesn't
take the rest out. Is that correct? If so, that may mean replacing the
CU -
'cos there aren't any spare ways or any RCD protection at present. If this
is the case, what are the implications for the rest of the house?

Any informed comments will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Roger


Just the fridge and / or freezer is best on a separate radial circuit. That
way they stay on if the rest of the kitchen sockets go into fault. Also,
and obviously, Electric Cooking Appliances are best on their own radial
supply.

On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:40:03 -0000 someone who may be "Roger Mills"
wrote this:-

One kitchen firm we've talked to is telling us that each appliance now needs
a dedicated feed (presumably RCD protected?) so that if one trips it doesn't
take the rest out. Is that correct?

No.

The existing garage ring circuit (I assume it is a separate one to
other circuits) will be modified and thus becomes to all intents and
purposes a new circuit as it will need to be tested properly for
things like ring continuity. This will need to have an RCD. This can
either be fitted in the existing consumer unit, if it has enough
space, or can be fitted external to it (not as pretty as an new
consumer unit, but cheaper).

It may well be sensible to run a non RCD fitted circuit for fridge
and freezer. This may be possible without a new consumer unit by
re-arranging the existing circuits.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:40:03 -0000 someone who may be "Roger Mills"
wrote this:-

One kitchen firm we've talked to is telling us that each appliance now
needs
a dedicated feed (presumably RCD protected?) so that if one trips it
doesn't
take the rest out. Is that correct?

No.

The existing garage ring circuit (I assume it is a separate one to
other circuits) will be modified and thus becomes to all intents and
purposes a new circuit as it will need to be tested properly for
things like ring continuity. This will need to have an RCD. This can
either be fitted in the existing consumer unit, if it has enough
space, or can be fitted external to it (not as pretty as an new
consumer unit, but cheaper).

It may well be sensible to run a non RCD fitted circuit for fridge
and freezer. This may be possible without a new consumer unit by
re-arranging the existing circuits.


I thought all outlets required a RCD? Are there exceptions? I know
lighting for one but light fittings are not normally regarded as outlets.

"Fred" wrote in message
...

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 11:40:03 -0000 someone who may be "Roger Mills"
wrote this:-

One kitchen firm we've talked to is telling us that each appliance now
needs
a dedicated feed (presumably RCD protected?) so that if one trips it
doesn't
take the rest out. Is that correct?

No.

The existing garage ring circuit (I assume it is a separate one to
other circuits) will be modified and thus becomes to all intents and
purposes a new circuit as it will need to be tested properly for
things like ring continuity. This will need to have an RCD. This can
either be fitted in the existing consumer unit, if it has enough
space, or can be fitted external to it (not as pretty as an new
consumer unit, but cheaper).

It may well be sensible to run a non RCD fitted circuit for fridge
and freezer. This may be possible without a new consumer unit by
re-arranging the existing circuits.


I thought all outlets required a RCD? Are there exceptions? I know
lighting for one but light fittings are not normally regarded as outlets.


The final ring can be protected with RCD at the consumer unit.

On 16 Nov, 11:40, "Roger Mills" wrote:
We are planning to convert a built-in garage into a kitchen - since it's
bigger than the extisting kitchen (which will become a utility room) and we
now have a separate detached garage.

Can some kind soul please tell me what the implications of the latest
electrical regs (17th Edition, or whatever) are likely to be?

The current kitchen has a dedicated cooker feed - which I plan to divert to
the new one - and has fixed appliances (fridge, dishwasher, etc.) plugged
into 13A sockets on one of the ring mains. All circuits are protected by
circuit breakers in the CU - but not RCDs. There are plenty of power outlets
in the old garage, which can be moved around to suit.

One kitchen firm we've talked to is telling us that each appliance now needs
a dedicated feed (presumably RCD protected?) so that if one trips it doesn't
take the rest out. Is that correct? If so, that may mean replacing the CU -
'cos there aren't any spare ways or any RCD protection at present. If this
is the case, what are the implications for the rest of the house?

Any informed comments will be greatly appreciated.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored..
Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks. PLEASE REPLY TO
NEWSGROUP!

The 17th edition is in force now so forget what the requirements are
likely to be on a job starting after July 12008, they are applicable
to your new work.
The most important new requirement to you is for ALL circuits with
cables concealed at less than 50mm depth to be RCD protected unless
protected by enclosing in earthed metal conduit or similar. It doesn't
matter whether they serve sockets or fixed equipment. You "may"
provide non RCD protected circuits for such as a freezer by using
labelled socket outlet but the earthed steel conduit of sheath
requirement remains unless you can see the cable or it is more than
50mm deep in the wall, floor or ceiling. The requirement of every
appliance having its own circuit is a fantasy of the firm you spoke to
but is is useful to spread the loads across a number of circuits to
minimise inconvenience in the event of a fault and "some" circuits
such as cookers and water heaters do need individual supply.
The implications of the changes are not to be lightly covered here and
you should buy a copy of the regs and on site guide or go to your
local library to make full reference to the details.

Fred coughed up some electrons that declared:


I thought all outlets required a RCD? Are there exceptions? I know
lighting for one but light fittings are not normally regarded as outlets.

No... All socket outlets (with some tiny exceptions) "are required to be RCD
protected at 30mA" which is subtly different.

Generally, the minimum number of RCDs deemed acceptable for a house these
days is 2: see the so called "17th edition CUs", eg:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...its/index.html

I'm filling mine with RCBOs, one per circuit, except for heating (boiler + 3
immersion backup heaters, which will be one RCBO "submain" and 4 MCBs (or
even one submain fuse and 3 MCBs + RCBOs, haven't decided). 16A x 3 for
heaters and 6A for the boiler. The latter is more practical than 4 circuits
from the main CU in my house, and I don't care if the heating trips out as
a block - in fact in some ways it's preferable with my setup. There'll be
means to isolate say a faulty immersion heater so the rest of the system
can stay working.)

HTH

Tim

Roger Mills wrote:

Can some kind soul please tell me what the implications of the latest
electrical regs (17th Edition, or whatever) are likely to be?

RCD protection for most circuits using concealed circuits without depth
or shielding protection.

The current kitchen has a dedicated cooker feed - which I plan to divert to
the new one - and has fixed appliances (fridge, dishwasher, etc.) plugged
into 13A sockets on one of the ring mains. All circuits are protected by
circuit breakers in the CU - but not RCDs. There are plenty of power outlets
in the old garage, which can be moved around to suit.

One kitchen firm we've talked to is telling us that each appliance now needs
a dedicated feed (presumably RCD protected?) so that if one trips it doesn't
take the rest out. Is that correct? If so, that may mean replacing the CU -

No, its twaddle. There is an argument for providing a dedicated circuit
for freezers however. It would often be simpler to RCD protect these as
well these days, however doing so via a RCBO might be a preferable way.

'cos there aren't any spare ways or any RCD protection at present. If this
is the case, what are the implications for the rest of the house?

Main equipotential bonding will need to be brought up to scratch (if not
already). RCD protection can be added as an afterthought. You may be
able to get single module RCBOs for your brand of CU - that would allow
you to add RCD protection to the relevant circuits and maintain good
discrimination without the cost of a complete new CU. Using separate
secondary enclosures is also possible but messy.

--
Cheers,

John.

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