I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling mounted) in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is important.

It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.

Andy wrote:
I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling mounted) in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is important.

It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.
you might fall foul of some privacy law if you record sound IIRC

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
Andy wrote:
I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling mounted)
in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is
important.

It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.

you might fall foul of some privacy law if you record sound IIRC

Kevin R


If being used for commercial purposes, you will need to register yourself on
the data registrars roll, as a data control manager. Commercial
surveillance is now under the control of the data protection and safety act,
which states that all material recorded to media suitable for playback
proposes, must be registered with your local police and council authority,
and must be to a standard where the material is secure to prevent
unauthorised broadcast, reproduction or copying.

But a cheapo system can be got from eBay if you search in the CCTv sections.
Put a search for " +CCTv+audio " to get thousands of hits back. Watch out
for the cheap systems that are advertised from the far east. Most are cheap
for a good reason, and some won't arrive at all. They still pay people to
leave feedback for them, over there. Buyer beware.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Kevin
saying something like:

Andy wrote:
I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling mounted) in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is important.

It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.
you might fall foul of some privacy law if you record sound IIRC

********.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Kevin
saying something like:

Andy wrote:
I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling mounted) in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is important.

It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.
you might fall foul of some privacy law if you record sound IIRC

********.

******** to you too


"Firms may have to revise their use of closed-circuit television to
monitor workers following the publication today of a new code of
practice by the Information Commissioner's Office.

The ICO found seven out of 10 individuals oppose the use of CCTV cameras
that record their conversations, and half did not know the Data
Protection Act covers CCTV surveillance.

The ICO said the use of sound recording was "highly intrusive" and
warned organisations that its use would be justified only in "highly
exceptional circumstances".

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Kevin
saying something like:

Andy wrote:
I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling mounted)
in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is
important.

It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back
and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.
you might fall foul of some privacy law if you record sound IIRC

********.

******** to you too


"Firms may have to revise their use of closed-circuit television to
monitor workers following the publication today of a new code of
practice by the Information Commissioner's Office.

The ICO found seven out of 10 individuals oppose the use of CCTV cameras
that record their conversations, and half did not know the Data
Protection Act covers CCTV surveillance.

The ICO said the use of sound recording was "highly intrusive" and
warned organisations that its use would be justified only in "highly
exceptional circumstances".

Kevin R


This debate has been ongoing since 2002, but an article, seen here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006...ishing.uknews1 was
a cause of substantial changes being made to close loopholes in the data
protection and safety acts.

As you will see, the article was published back in 2006, but it caused the
act to be updated immediately to contain the Criminal Laws act of obtaining
unlawful communication in any covert fashion. The data protection system is
still being update, almost daily, to try and contain newer techniques which
are also being updated on an almost daily basis. With it being a relatively
new set of proposed standards, the industry and individuals will always try
to find loopholes, but the act is not law. Although it can be used to
relate to current Criminal Justice Laws which cover such things that the act
proposes. Such is the case of obtaining unauthorised communication media.

The act now contains a paragraph which states that no covert surveillance
can used to obtain recorded material for use in unauthorised monitoring of
personnel or visitors to a commercial or public building. That's why it is
now law to post clear signs telling of recorded surveillance equipment in
use. If the said surveillance recording also captures audio media, then the
signs must also clearly state this to people.

So, ballox back at ya' :-)

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Kevin
saying something like:

Andy wrote:
I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling mounted)
in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is
important.

It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back
and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.
you might fall foul of some privacy law if you record sound IIRC

********.

******** to you too


"Firms may have to revise their use of closed-circuit television to
monitor workers following the publication today of a new code of
practice by the Information Commissioner's Office.

The ICO found seven out of 10 individuals oppose the use of CCTV cameras
that record their conversations, and half did not know the Data
Protection Act covers CCTV surveillance.

The ICO said the use of sound recording was "highly intrusive" and
warned organisations that its use would be justified only in "highly
exceptional circumstances".

Kevin R


If anyone is interested http://www.dca.gov.uk/ccpd/faqdp.htm This site
gives all sorts of info' into the workings of the Data Protection Act (DPA),
with some links to further reading material on the subject.

Having to work to these standards most every day, we, as a company, have to
keep informed about the current legislative updates that have been, or are
to be, introduced into the system.

It was through such discussion with the data commissioner's office, that our
company had the clause of privacy introduced into the act. This was the
first time it had even been thought about as pertaining to such legislation.
During discussion, we asked about the installation of surveillance devices
in the toilet areas of pubs, clubs and other public buildings. Although we
brought attention to the fact that criminal activity can and will be
committed in such places, we also knew that people didn't want to be watched
as they used the loo.

Our point was to introduce a situation of acceptable use of such devices
where the person would not be violated while in a state of undress. The new
paragraph now says, roughly, that areas within such facilities, the areas
away from urinals and solid waste disposal systems, may be covered by video
surveillance and recording devices ( the public areas ) in accordance with
current criminal prevention laws. This just means that you can install
cameras to watch the floor area away from where people are naturally going
to expose their ugly bits.

The print on information signage is also to changed soon. New wording is
being introduced to inform people that video surveillance, either recorded
locally or remotely, is being used to protect staff, residents and visitors
from criminal attack. This new simple wording scheme actually covers a load
more situations where video can be used. With the current wording on signs,
it only tells people that cameras are there and are being recorded. Because
of the introduction of the simple phrase "Staff, Residents and Visitors" it
now covers areas that are used frequently by employees, residents and anyone
else who may visit in any part of a property, including the public areas of
toilets and cloakrooms.

I think the new signs have already been installed on a few new fleet buses
across the country. Where the wording says something like "Video is
installed to protect staff and travelers" in this situation. But the signs
will shortly have to change to the new wording scheme right across the
country soon. If not already.

To tell the truth, the signs have now disappeared to my eyes. I have seen
to many of them, everywhere, to even notice them anymore. No matter what is
written on them. :-)

But there are relaxations (maybe not including audio) for home security
use.
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Kevin
saying something like:

Andy wrote:
I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling mounted)
in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is
important.

It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back
and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.
you might fall foul of some privacy law if you record sound IIRC

********.

******** to you too


"Firms may have to revise their use of closed-circuit television to
monitor workers following the publication today of a new code of
practice by the Information Commissioner's Office.

The ICO found seven out of 10 individuals oppose the use of CCTV cameras
that record their conversations, and half did not know the Data
Protection Act covers CCTV surveillance.

The ICO said the use of sound recording was "highly intrusive" and
warned organisations that its use would be justified only in "highly
exceptional circumstances".

--
Kevin R

So do not tell anyone then.

Adam

On 1 Nov, 20:35, Andy wrote:
I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling mounted) in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is important.

It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.

there are some about disguised as smoke alarms or alarm PIR detectors
if you want to be ultra-covert...

I use a cheap hard disc DVD recorder (£150) with mine.

You could use a PC with a DVR card which (if working correctly :))
brings in motion detection etc but obviously PC must be *on* all the
time (and not crashed...)

jim

ARWadsworth wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Kevin
saying something like:

Andy wrote:
I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling mounted)
in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is
important.
It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back
and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.
you might fall foul of some privacy law if you record sound IIRC
********.
******** to you too


"Firms may have to revise their use of closed-circuit television to
monitor workers following the publication today of a new code of
practice by the Information Commissioner's Office.

The ICO found seven out of 10 individuals oppose the use of CCTV cameras
that record their conversations, and half did not know the Data
Protection Act covers CCTV surveillance.

The ICO said the use of sound recording was "highly intrusive" and
warned organisations that its use would be justified only in "highly
exceptional circumstances".

--
Kevin R

So do not tell anyone then.

Adam


ignorance either real or imagined of any laws does not make you immune
to prosecution

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
...
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Kevin
saying something like:

Andy wrote:
I would like to have a small security camera (perhaps ceiling
mounted)
in
my study/office at home.

Can anyone suggest any value for money cameras. A low price is
important.
It would need to record audio too as it is useful for me to go back
and
hear what I said in face to face discussions or in phone calls.
you might fall foul of some privacy law if you record sound IIRC
********.
******** to you too


"Firms may have to revise their use of closed-circuit television to
monitor workers following the publication today of a new code of
practice by the Information Commissioner's Office.

The ICO found seven out of 10 individuals oppose the use of CCTV cameras
that record their conversations, and half did not know the Data
Protection Act covers CCTV surveillance.

The ICO said the use of sound recording was "highly intrusive" and
warned organisations that its use would be justified only in "highly
exceptional circumstances".

--
Kevin R

So do not tell anyone then.

Adam


ignorance either real or imagined of any laws does not make you immune to
prosecution

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

Remember that sound quality reduces considerably with distance from the
microphone - background noises become more significant than the sounds you
want.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Kevin
saying something like:

********.

******** to you too

Ohkay...
Anyway, the OP wants to do it in his own home, to back up his
recollection of events in his own office/study. I don't see the problem
if it's to put some dodgy ******* in their place.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Kevin
saying something like:

********.
******** to you too

Ohkay...
Anyway, the OP wants to do it in his own home, to back up his
recollection of events in his own office/study. I don't see the problem
if it's to put some dodgy ******* in their place.
I would have thought a home "office" still would be classed as a place
of work and subject to the normal rules/laws

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

"Andy" wrote in message
...
On Sun 02 Nov08 00:39, BigWallop
wrote in om:

snipped


Hello. I am the original poster. I can't follow exactly who's
bolloxing who! I would like to say that you point out may not apply
in my case.

You wrote "unauthorised monitoring of personnel or visitors to a
commercial or public building.

FIRST. In my case it is my home. Not a "commercial or public
building". My visitors are visiting a home even though I do have a
study. However I'm not conducting any business from home.


If you have no commercial enterprise what so ever within the property, you
are not under any authority to register with the Office of the Data
Commissioner. If, however, you do install equipment for the use of
recording audio and / or video images, and you use these images in the
pursuit of any commercial venture, you do have the obligation to tell the
people you are recording them and that the images may be used in such
ventures. You will also have to register yourself as a Data Manager /
Controller.

Would you tell your visitors they are being recorded with video and audio
systems? If you don't, then could also fall under the Privacy of Personal
Identity Laws, which have just been passed through government at this very
moment. Because of the increase in Personal Identity Theft, these new
legislative demands may cause the surveillance of visitors to your home or
rented accommodation to be brought to bear into secret filming / recording
of any personal information. So you could be caught both ways very shortly.



SECOND. I am not so much "monitoring" visitors as recording what is
said by visitors for me to hear (or expected to see). In other words,
the recording will be akin to entries made at the time in a notebook.
In this case it's an electronic notebook.


Is this monitoring to be overt or covert? If a film crew openly approach
you in the street while you are talking to friends, would you allow them to
continue filming and recording your every word and expression? Even though
they are not hiding any of their activities. On the other hand, if the film
crew are filming you and your friends from a van across the street, with the
aid of a sound recordist covertly standing next to you with a microphone
recording your every word. Then it is shown on national TV without your
consent. How would you feel?

The laws against recording of material of a personal nature is now
punishable by up to ten years imprisonment. Do you remember the journalist
bloke who, with a scanner radio, could listen in on celebrity mobile phone
calls? He was lucky he was the first person to be privately sued by this
activity, because the laws have been refined and tweaked a lot since then.

So it depends on how these recordings are to obtained and used. Some people
may not like being played back in front of whom so ever else visits your
home, even if the conversation is not business related. Every personal
conversation is not for public use, which any covert recording would be
classed as if your visitors find out about them.



Do you think these two points would permit the recording to occur?

Or to come at it from another direction ... if I had a security alarm
running all day long and a visitor to talk to me came, then would that
breaking any law?


If you are filming and sound recording every room in your private
residential home, then you have no obligations of the Data Protection and
Safety Act at all, whatsoever. You will need a regulatory sign outside the
premises, telling visitors and passers by that they will be recorded if they
enter or approach your home. That is all you have to do. Such material is
deemed as "Being for the private use of the home owner".

If you are recording a public area, like a public footpath or roadway of any
kind, out with the boundary of your property, then the Act states that you
do have an obligation to the public to disclose any recorded material that
may be pertinent to them in the pursuit of their personal business. Which
means they could just be walking passed your property when they were caught
on your audio / video system, so you have to allow them access to any such
recorded material that they appear on, from your system. You can charge a
small fee for any material copied to third party media for the private use
of the requester.

To sum up the Data Protection and Safety Act, then. If your system is only
for private use within your home. With no means of being used to covertly
obtain personal material from "informed visitors". Then your system is not
regulated by the act at all. Nada. Zilch. If such recorded material is to
be used in any type of commercial venture, whatsoever, you do have to
register yourself for this purpose to the Data Commissioners Office. None
disclosure of any such material to the police or any other authorised body
(which includes all persons you have been recorded on your system and / or
their agents) as of any request for such material, may be punishable under
the Personal Identity Theft Law and Data Protection and Safety Act.

It costs nothing to register your system to the proper authorities. Some
people think it is a tough set of regulations that they have to comply with,
when it is really nothing of the sort. Others think that the DPA is some
sort of way the government keeps tabs on your private lives, when in actual
fact it is used mainly to protect your rights against violation by others,
under common law. The DPA and ID Violation Laws are used very rarely in
court cases, where systems have been used to capture evidence of none
criminal activity.

I have personally never heard of any case where a system has been used in
anything other than criminal evidence. Because of that fact, if your system
is registered with the DCO, your system can be used as evidence in a court
of law. If you have an unregistered system, it can not be used for this
purpose.

There are a lot more situations where the Act defines sound and video
recordings being used in tandem for purposes of time and date stamping
procedures Etc. Etc. But a small, private residential system does not have
any such implications made on it. They are for commercial and public
control systems.

So, there yee are then. That's what it does. :-)

"Andy" wrote in message
...
On Sun 02 Nov08 18:39, Kevin wrote in
:

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when
the drugs began to take hold. I remember Kevin
saying something like:

********.
******** to you too

Ohkay...
Anyway, the OP wants to do it in his own home, to back up his
recollection of events in his own office/study. I don't see the
problem if it's to put some dodgy ******* in their place.

I would have thought a home "office" still would be classed as a
place of work and subject to the normal rules/laws


I am the OP. It's not really an office. It's strictly a study.

It's where I keep books, papers, have a desk, write letters, and so on.

I don't work. So there is no work to be brought home!

I do not do anything commercial in my study or in my home.


Would your visitor know they were being recorded? See my other reply
further up this thread.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "BigWallop"
saying something like:

Is this monitoring to be overt or covert? If a film crew openly approach
you in the street while you are talking to friends, would you allow them to
continue filming and recording your every word and expression? Even though
they are not hiding any of their activities. On the other hand, if the film
crew are filming you and your friends from a van across the street, with the
aid of a sound recordist covertly standing next to you with a microphone
recording your every word. Then it is shown on national TV without your
consent. How would you feel?

Thanks for the clarification of this latest piece of knee-jerk
legislation.
I'm concerned about how this will be used (abused) by PCSOs in their
relentless pursuit of street photographers, those urban scourges and
molesters of small children, as every chav mum knows.