David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 15:22:26 -0000 someone who may be "gazz"
wrote this:-

i learnt not to put my fingers into a street lamp that had it's cover
missing, wont be doing that again and it taught me to be a bit more
respectfull of electricity....

My father learn't the same lesson when he put a metal knitting
needle into a Shuko socket.



I preferred magnesium ribbon. Wonderful flash!

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 15:22:26 -0000 someone who may be "gazz"
wrote this:-

i learnt not to put my fingers into a street lamp that had it's cover
missing, wont be doing that again and it taught me to be a bit more
respectfull of electricity....

My father learn't the same lesson when he put a metal knitting
needle into a Shuko socket.



I preferred magnesium ribbon. Wonderful flash!

not as big as a biro spring :-) (been there got the t-shirt)

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

Bruce wrote in
:

"gazz" wrote:



I have a 3-way Euro extension lead that I bought in Spain. Obviously,
it came with a lead that had a Euro plug on it. All I did was cut off
the plug and replace it with a UK 13A plug. I can now plug in up to
three appliances with Euro plugs on them - I own several.

I feel sure that you could get these extension leads here in the UK.

They are available from UK suppliers on-line, cheaper is to buy them from a
mainland supplier - eg www.conrad.fr or www.conrad.com who I know will
ship to the UK (but they are not the cheapest). Better still ask someone
who's off the mainland to bring back a couple. Then as the above poster
suggests cut off the plug and put a fused 13A UK plug on (preferably with a
lower than 13A fuse in).
You might consider asking if an electrician will fit (and part P certify) a
genuine Schuko socket onto a switched fused spur, my tentative enquiries on
this were that once they understood that you weren't mad they would - I
never did (cost). Equally a genuine Schuko socket as a single radial back
to the fuse box is apparently OK too with Part P, according to the sparks
I've spoken to.

"gazz" wrote in :



Give me the shuko plugs and sockets anyday,


I tend to agree with you although I'd say 'Give me a modern 'schuko' style
intallation anyday'
You and I are sailing against the tide of opinion here - I've read the
arguments and remain unconvinced that either side is *technically* better
(ie the mainlanders are not being electrocuted in their thousands!), so it
comes down to blinkered predjudice - and my predjudice is for the non-UK
system.

On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 12:52:00 -0600, Mike the unimaginative
wrote:

You and I are sailing against the tide of opinion here - I've read the
arguments and remain unconvinced that either side is *technically* better
(ie the mainlanders are not being electrocuted in their thousands!),

Not in their thousands, but about 10 times as many people die from
electric shock (proportional to population) in the Schuko countries as
in the BS1363 ones. France adds another order of magnitude but that's
simply the French who don't really understand electricity.

Peter Parry wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 12:52:00 -0600, Mike the unimaginative
wrote:

You and I are sailing against the tide of opinion here - I've read the
arguments and remain unconvinced that either side is *technically* better
(ie the mainlanders are not being electrocuted in their thousands!),

Not in their thousands, but about 10 times as many people die from
electric shock (proportional to population) in the Schuko countries as
in the BS1363 ones. France adds another order of magnitude but that's
simply the French who don't really understand electricity.

Are those deaths actually related to Schukos themselves, the related
aspects of the wiring, or other things altogether. For example, I
imagine that some of the countries might not have the best standards of
protection (RCDs, etc.). But this is my imagination and this is
genuinely questioning, not dismissing your post.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:33:17 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Are those deaths actually related to Schukos themselves, the related
aspects of the wiring, or other things altogether. For example, I
imagine that some of the countries might not have the best standards of
protection (RCDs, etc.). But this is my imagination and this is
genuinely questioning, not dismissing your post.

It isn't stated (or at least not in the data I had). The Schuko plug
and the radial wiring associated with it are of course linked as a
system in much the same way as the BS1363 plug is inextricably
associated with ring wiring. It is also true to say that in both
cases the number of deaths by electrocution attributable to faults in
fixed wiring is really quite small, a few every year in the UK and
20-30 in the Schuko area for the equivalent population. Fires caused
by electrical faults kill far more.

Older Schuko installations are frequently overloaded (too few sockets
and difficult to add more) and the use of multiple socket extension
leads with high current appliances is commonplace. Leads pulled out
of plugs are also common and kill a few each year. The use of
"earthed" Schuko plugs in non-earthed sockets is a major issue. In
one house we had in Germany the washing machine and tumble drier were
in the (damp and frequently flooding) cellar plugged into an extension
lead plugged into a wall socket. The wall socket was an earthed
socket - those on the extension lead were not. You got quite a
healthy tingle if you touched the washing machine case and water pipes
at the same time. (In true German style the landlord told us this was
all quite legal as the washing machine had an earthed plug and the
wall socket was earthed and the rules said nothing about bits in
between.)

In my experience there is also a much greater range of quality between
the best and worst Schuko plugs and the best and worst BS1363 ones.

One of the great advantages of the BS1363 system is its resilience to
mistreatment. It was a "clean sheet of paper" design done very well
by competent engineers and as a system works well. The Schuko system
isn't anything like as resilient with more single points of failure
and a much greater susceptibility to fires caused by high currents.

As well as deaths by electrocution there are many more fires
attributed to fixed wiring on the continent than there are in the UK
(again excluding the French as their figures simply eclipse everyone
else's put together).

In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 12:52:00 -0600, Mike the unimaginative
wrote:

You and I are sailing against the tide of opinion here - I've read the
arguments and remain unconvinced that either side is *technically* better
(ie the mainlanders are not being electrocuted in their thousands!),

Not in their thousands, but about 10 times as many people die from
electric shock (proportional to population) in the Schuko countries as
in the BS1363 ones. France adds another order of magnitude but that's
simply the French who don't really understand electricity.

Isn't that what Darwinism was invented for ?

--
geoff

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Andrew
Gabriel) saying something like:

(In the UK, it is required that the tip is
the live connection of an ES lampholder.)

Many people wire them up at random when they're replacing plugs,
possibly in the mistaken notion that, like a BC, it makes no real
difference either way. I've come across many with live outers.

David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 14:00:18 -0000 someone who may be "gazz"
wrote this:-

I've never seen a non earthed shuko socket that could take an
earthed plug.

I have.

Since Schuko is short for Schutzcontact (protective contact), it wasn't
really one, but the predecessor...

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Tim S coughed up some electrons that declared:

I'll just add to that, if using a switched fused unit, make sure that
it's
a double pole switch, as the shuko is polarity-reversible (as pointed out
by everyone else). That will avoid an edge case of you thinking you've
shut it off, then fiddling inside your pinball machine and getting a
nasty
surprise.

Sorry. Brain spasm. I need to get some coffee.

The way I've written that is stupid. You are in control of the polarity up
until the shuko socket so you can never get an unswitched phase to the
machine even with a single pole switch.


Mind you, technically "neutral" is to be considered "live" (oridinary
people's "live" is actually called "phase" or "line"), and a DP switch
will
offer protection against odd supply or wiring faults that involve the
neutral floating up to 240V above earth.

Still reasonable advice to use a DP switch (or none at all), but for
slightly different reasons to the way it appeared in the last post.

no probs, would use a DP switch anyway,

the particular shuko plug on the pinball machine is one of those right
hangled ones, so as long as i put the phase wire to the right hand socket
contact, neuteral to the right, it'll be plugged in with the polarity the
same,

can be plugged in reversed of course, but the plug will be upside down and
easy to spot.

the cable goes into the machine then straight upto a double pole isolator
switch which is the main switch for the machine (operated by reaching under
the right hand side of the cabinet) just before the switch is the non
earthed bakelite flat fronted inspection lamp socket,

the idea being you can use the lamp to see what your poking around at in the
cabinet, but the machine is powered off by the front switch,

the transformer is right at the back of the machine anyway, so with the
playfield lifted up on it's prop (like a car bonnet) you'd have to be very
slim and have long arms to reach it's mains connections,

the machine has 28 - 32 volts DC (depends on the flipper strength setting),
28 volts AC and 7 volts AC on it's contacts, bulbs and solenoids, so whilst
they might give you a little tingle, they shouldent hurt you (unlike my
1960's EM one armed bandit that has 48 volts AC on it's contacts, not wise
to operate them by hand i found out

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
David Hansen writes:
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 14:00:18 -0000 someone who may be "gazz"
wrote this:-

I've never seen a non earthed shuko socket that could take an earthed plug.
I have.

There are parts of Europe where it's been standard; Holland IIRC,
where protection against electric shock by non-conducting location
means no earths are permitted on outlets in such areas.


The most dangerous thing about the BS1363 plug is physical. If a plug is
left lying on the floor of the US or Schuko design, it's hard for it to
lie pins-up. BS1363 plugs always seem to land pins up and hurt like hell
if you tread on one with bare feet )

BruceB wrote:
"gazz" wrote in message
...
would there be any regulations i'd be breaking if i fitted a german shuko
style 2 pin with side earth strip socket in my house?


You may well be breaking some regulations depending on how you achieve it,
but in principle it is perfectly possible to fit Shuko sockets in UK. Some
hotels do.

The way hotels tend to do it is to fit the EU & US style sockets to an
item such as a desk (complete with transformer for the US sockets), then
that is connected back via flex to a 13A fused spur with flex outlet. I
guess this technically makes these sockets an "appliance" rather than
part of the installation?

On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 12:43:36 -0600 someone who may be Mike the
unimaginative wrote this:-

You might consider asking if an electrician will fit (and part P certify) a
genuine Schuko socket onto a switched fused spur, my tentative enquiries on
this were that once they understood that you weren't mad they would - I
never did (cost). Equally a genuine Schuko socket as a single radial back
to the fuse box is apparently OK too with Part P, according to the sparks
I've spoken to.

Such a socket doesn't comply with the Wiring Regs. However, the
paperwork the IET/IEE (IEE is a brand name they use for wiring
matters) offer for use provides a space for exceptions to the Regs
(and have done so for at least 20 years). That space is to allow
such exceptions to be noted.

The IET/IEE state that they are in favour of "novel methods",
provided they have been properly thought through. The unimaginative
"it doesn't comply, so can't be done" approach is not what the
IET/IEE encourage, but it is an attitude adopted by many. I'm glad
to see that those you approached had the right attitude.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Andrew
Gabriel) saying something like:

(In the UK, it is required that the tip is
the live connection of an ES lampholder.)

Many people wire them up at random when they're replacing plugs,
possibly in the mistaken notion that, like a BC, it makes no real
difference either way. I've come across many with live outers.

probably something to do with the fact that most people's experiences of
these type of fittings will be from table lamps with a Euro (unearthed) plug
on the end, which they will have realised can be plugged in either way.

Thus, if they do ever have to wire in a fixed one, they will "wire it in
either way"

tim