In article , Bob Eager
scribeth thus
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:00:32 UTC, tony sayer wrote:

Terraced 5 bed house, 9 PCs on 24/7,

Whatever do you need 9 PC's for in a 5 bed gaff?, presume theres
routers, modems, network switches etc as well;?...

Somebody had to ask....!

Firewall, mail server, backup mail server/file server, PBX....etc. etc.
Eight are in one room.

There are more that aren't on all the time...but the four above are 20W,
30W, 50W and 35W respectively.


And the aircon in your server room of course....
--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:35:54 +0100, Andy Wade
wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:25:41 +0100, Andy Wade wrote:

For the Eastern region Ebico have just increased their Economy 7 prices
thus:

Just? I've not had a letter from 'em telling me of an increase. Looking at
their site I can see that they have gone up again since the last one on
1st April but there is no "effective from" date that I can obviously see.

2nd October, see
http://www.ebico.co.uk/html/x_news_s...rom=&ucat=2,3&

I've had no notification either.

They issued bills in the first week of October with the new
electricity rate starting from the 2nd September, which I promptly
paid, then a few days later issued them again with the new rate change
date being 2nd October meaning a reduction in the bill. The gas rates
went up from 2nd October on the original bill and this has not (as
yet) being reissued. I've had no separate notification by letter of
the new rates.


--

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:35:54 +0100, Andy Wade wrote:

Just? I've not had a letter from 'em telling me of an increase.

2nd October, see
snip
I've had no notification either.

As they haven't *officially* informed us they can't apply the new rates to
our bils yet can they? Nothing on Aprils letter saying that written
notification of future changes is being withdrawn.

In the Ebico T&C's:

9. Variation

We can vary the terms and conditions for the supply of Energy (including
price) in this Agreement. If we vary the terms or conditions to your
significant disadvantage, we'll publicise the variation in accordance
with our Energy supply licence(s).

Which doesn't help a lot... However:

12. Notices

Notices required under this Agreement will be in writing and delivered
by hand, sent by post or by email. We'll send notices to your billing
address. We'll assume you've received the notice 2 working days after
we've sent it unless we receive evidence to the contrary. You must send
notice(s) for electricity, gas and telecoms by post to: Sales Processing
and Registration, SSE Energy Supply Limited, Grampian House, 200 Dunkeld
Road, Perth PH1 3GH.

So assuming a "notice" is required for a price change we should have had
one. Bear in mind that I have two Ebico accounts, one notice getting "lost
in the post" I could understand but not at least 3. Has any other Ebico
customer had *official* notification of this October price change?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:56:09 +0100, Mike wrote:

They issued bills in the first week of October with the new
electricity rate starting from the 2nd September, which I promptly
paid, then a few days later issued them again with the new rate change
date being 2nd October meaning a reduction in the bill.

My next bill is due any day now. It will be interesting to see what it has
on it. Without any official notification of a price change arriving before
the bill I will be challenging it.

The gas rates went up from 2nd October

Don't care about retail gas prices those can go orbital. Not keen on the
knockons from high wholesale prices on lecky bills though. My biggest
concern is the crude oil price which I'm pleased to see is now below what
it was at the beginning of the year.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:28:27 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:56:09 +0100, Mike wrote:

They issued bills in the first week of October with the new
electricity rate starting from the 2nd September, which I promptly
paid, then a few days later issued them again with the new rate change
date being 2nd October meaning a reduction in the bill.

My next bill is due any day now. It will be interesting to see what it has
on it. Without any official notification of a price change arriving before
the bill I will be challenging it.

The gas rates went up from 2nd October

Don't care about retail gas prices those can go orbital. Not keen on the
knockons from high wholesale prices on lecky bills though. My biggest
concern is the crude oil price which I'm pleased to see is now below what
it was at the beginning of the year.

I've been with them for 2 or 3 years now and I can't recall any
notification from ebico of price changes prior to a bill arriving.


--

Andy Wade wrote:

Colin Wilson wrote:

Tried any social tariffs ? Check out http://www.ebico.co.uk - their
prices are probably due for an overhaul, but for low users (not sure
if you fall into that category) they were hard to beat.

For the Eastern region Ebico have just increased their Economy 7 prices
thus:

- day: 15.81 p/kWh - was 12.56 p/kWh - 26% increase
- night: 6.59 p/kWh - was 4.61 p/kWh - 43% increase!

They're certainly far from competitive now for E7 users with a high
average night consumption.

I've put in yet another switching application. The best I could find
for my consumption (~9800 kWh pa of which 65% at night) is EDF Energy's
new "Online Electricity V6" tariff:

- day (1): 15.64 p/kWh for first 900 kWh pa
- day (2): 9.03 p/kWh
- night: 5.34 p/kWh

(All prices quoted ex-VAT.)

FWIW I've just compared EON's price with Ebico's, for Economy 7
electricity. We use 5 day units and 5 night units per 24 hours.

All prices include VAT and were taken from recent bills and websites:

EON have 225 Primary Day Units per quarter at 36.5p; Day units at
17.0p; Night units at 5.58p. Per quarter = £145.51

Ebico have Day units at 16.61p, Night units at 6.92p.
Per quarter £105.89

Saving per quarter with Ebico ~£40.

Terry Fields wrote:

Saving per quarter with Ebico ~£40.

Doh! Who's a silly old Hector?

Using the correct VAT rate for EON, the saving is £24 per quarter in
Ebico's favour.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:56:41 +0100 someone who may be Terry Fields
wrote this:-

EON have 225 Primary Day Units per quarter at 36.5p; Day units at
17.0p; [snip]

Ebico have Day units at 16.61p,

Assuming both lots are current prices it is interesting that Ebico
are a little cheaper than even the cheapest day units EON offer.
Others have reported Ebico as being more expensive for these and
thus more expensive for those using large numbers of units.

No surprise that Ebico are dramatically cheaper than the "we
abolished the standing charge, yes really, would we lie?" units from
EON.

35.6 - 17.0 = 19.5, a premium which is the hidden standing charge
element.

19.5 * 225 = £43.88, which is the standing charge per quarter
assuming one uses 225 or more units. That's a lot.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:43:09 +0100, Mike wrote:

I've been with them for 2 or 3 years now and I can't recall any
notification from ebico of price changes prior to a bill arriving.

I got letters in April this year.

--
Cheers
Dave.

David Hansen wrote:

Assuming both lots are current prices

Apologies for posting half a load of rubbish; I had both prices to
hand but the Ebico one was with VAT, so I added the (wrong) VAT rate
to EON's prices.

Even so, 225 units at 32.55p instead of 15.15p (EON) is a hefty
standing charge of nearly £40.

When the young lady from EON rang to ask why I was switching, I
mentioned this point as being the major factor.

She astounded me by saying that she'd be telling lies if she said that
this (Ebico) wasn't one of the best deals on offer. I hope she's still
got a job....

In message , Colin
Wilson o.uk writes
For our usage - about 25 kWh day over the last year, BG is the second
cheapest (by just a few pounds) on their Click Energy tariff

Tried any social tariffs ? Check out http://www.ebico.co.uk - their
prices are probably due for an overhaul, but for low users (not sure
if you fall into that category) they were hard to beat.

Their prices aren't all competitive for us.

We certainly aren't low users, esp. gas , even though we don't have the
house esp. warm. (pretty big, Victorian detached house, solid walls,
lots of single glazing etc.) Though we have cut it by about 50% from the
old owners. When we moved in our gas supplier put us on a standard
commercial (IIRC) tariff, we couldn't get the cheaper ones, Transco said
that the consumption had been over the 88000 kWh (or whatever it was)
per annum maximujm for the domestic tariffs - Eeek!


--
Chris French

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:32:54 +0100, wrote:

On 23 Oct,
"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

So assuming a "notice" is required for a price change we should have had
one. Bear in mind that I have two Ebico accounts, one notice getting "lost
in the post" I could understand but not at least 3. Has any other Ebico
customer had *official* notification of this October price change?

I hven't (gas only).

Does official 'notification' mean email/website-type notification, or
should it be by a bit of paper snailmailed to you?

It would seem that electronic delivery of notifications is
increasingly becoming the norm - although it would appear that emails
sent to government-type bodies are totally ignored, as if they're some
sort of gimmick.
Or they're being lost in trains etc :-)

I'm sort of toying with the idea of looking at different energy
suppliers. I'm with Scottish Power on their 'Online Energy - Standard'
dual-fuel tariff; my consumption of gas varies from about 48kWh/day
in the depths of (well, last!) winter to ca. 3kWh in summer.
Electricity consumption is fairly constant at around 6-7 kWh/day.

It always seems odd that one's 'supplier' doesn't actually physically
supply the gas/leccy, but just takes money from you...

--
Frank Erskine

On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:35:06 +0100 someone who may be Frank Erskine
wrote this:-

It always seems odd that one's 'supplier' doesn't actually physically
supply the gas/leccy, but just takes money from you...

They put, or arrange someone else to put, gas or electricity into
the system to match your consumption (or rather the consumption of
all their customers). This is done, essentially, on an annual basis
and no-doubt one of the ways they make things balance (in a
book-keeping sense), is to make payments to other suppliers (which
is a way of arranging them to put in).

If you don't like that arrangement then an alternative approach
would be to average costs and charge everyone the same. Good luck in
convincing the politicians that this sort of Socialist approach is a
good idea.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:35:06 +0100 someone who may be Frank Erskine
wrote this:-

It always seems odd that one's 'supplier' doesn't actually physically
supply the gas/leccy, but just takes money from you...

They put, or arrange someone else to put, gas or electricity into
the system to match your consumption (or rather the consumption of
all their customers). This is done, essentially, on an annual basis


I am not so sure tat it is annual at all.

At some levels, people are spot trading gas and electricity on a minute
by minute basis.


and no-doubt one of the ways they make things balance (in a
book-keeping sense), is to make payments to other suppliers (which
is a way of arranging them to put in).

If you don't like that arrangement then an alternative approach
would be to average costs and charge everyone the same. Good luck in
convincing the politicians that this sort of Socialist approach is a
good idea.


No need for that.

However right now there is a huge difference between spot and cotract
pricings.

Oil has fallen 50% in spot $ terms, in the last 6 months, but the pound
has fallen 25% against the dollar..

If you want stable energy prices, build nuclear power stations.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:35:06 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:

Does official 'notification' mean email/website-type notification, or
should it be by a bit of paper snailmailed to you?

Ebico's T&C's, previously quoted, mention email but not web. In my view an
official notification needs to be some form of "push" feed rather than a
"pull" one. That is a letter or email sent (pushed) to me, rather than me
having to wander off somewhere to look (pull) *just in case* there has
been a change.

I'm sort of toying with the idea of looking at different energy
suppliers. I'm with Scottish Power on their 'Online Energy - Standard'
dual-fuel tariff;

You might find them hard to beat. I'm with them for the main (lecky only)
account that consumes 20kW/hr/day +/- 2kW over the seasons.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:35:06 +0100 someone who may be Frank Erskine
wrote this:-

It always seems odd that one's 'supplier' doesn't actually physically
supply the gas/leccy, but just takes money from you...

They put, or arrange someone else to put, gas or electricity into
the system to match your consumption (or rather the consumption of
all their customers). This is done, essentially, on an annual basis


I am not so sure tat it is annual at all.

At some levels, people are spot trading gas and electricity on a minute
by minute basis.

It works in regular slots throughout the day (IIRC, 15 or 30 minute
chunks). As a supplier, you commit to providing so many kWH during
particular slots. If your plant fails, you still have to ensure that
power is provided to the grid, so you end up paying someone else to
do so, usually at some enormous price premium. Suppliers tend to keep
an eye out for someone else unexpectedly falling off the grid and
immediately jack their prices sky high so the failing supplier has
no choice other than being fleeced by his competitors.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:47:33 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

They put, or arrange someone else to put, gas or electricity into
the system to match your consumption (or rather the consumption of
all their customers). This is done, essentially, on an annual basis

I am not so sure tat it is annual at all.

At some levels, people are spot trading gas and electricity on a minute
by minute basis.

With electricity after gate closure the market doesn't exist, rather
the system operators are using balancing services (which they
contracted from the market with a variety of payments). There is not
an equivalent process for gas as it is not necessary.

Within the market of course businesses are trading things
frequently, I never said otherwise. However, what is done on an
essentially annual basis is the accounting.

Businesses make transactions all the time, however accounting is
generally done once a year.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Oct 22, 12:27*pm, wrote:
On 21 Oct, 18:24, wrote:





I have just received an electric bill that suggests my daily usage kWh
(over 100 days) is 37 kWh a day ?
(British Gas)

We have gas central heating - no electric heaters.

Two bedroom detached house - two adults one baby.

Washing machine/dish-washer on probably an hour each five times a
week.

No other excessive high power stuff in the house....(computer 200W on
all day = 4.8 kWh day)

Dodgy meter ? Or next door are wired in...

Phil

A quick search shows average electricity usage per household in the UK
is estimated at anything from 2500 to 5500kWh per year, so range would
be 6.8kWh per day to 15kWh per day. *Seems your consumption is very
high!

Matt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Matt. Is that (6.8 to 15 per day) with 'other sources' of domestic
heating? e.g. Understand that gas heating is quite common in the UK?
And is reasonably inexpensive?
TIA terry