A 'theoretical' question, because I had to take it out entirely
anyway, but what's the right thing to do with the end of a redundant
cable when you remove a socket/FCU etc? I know taking the whole thing
out is best but sometimes that's not simple. And if it was part of a
ring,crimping the free ends together would maintain the circuit but
what about an old spur? I've seen it done with insulating tape, and
have winced at the sight (I'd guess that self-amalagamating tape would
be a bit better but still not ideal). There must be a tidy and safe
way to do it, if only a crimp connector with some way of insulating
the 'open' end?
Suggestions welcome, ready for when the occasion arises(!)

GMM wrote:
A 'theoretical' question, because I had to take it out entirely
anyway, but what's the right thing to do with the end of a redundant
cable when you remove a socket/FCU etc?

Interesting question that, I'd like more info as well from those
knowledgeable chaps that hang around here.

I know taking the whole thing
out is best but sometimes that's not simple. And if it was part of a
ring,crimping the free ends together would maintain the circuit but
what about an old spur? I've seen it done with insulating tape, and
have winced at the sight (I'd guess that self-amalagamating tape would
be a bit better but still not ideal).

Most common way I've seen seems to be choc blocks with or without tape. Ive
also found the 'twisted together with insulating tape' method & also winced.

There must be a tidy and safe
way to do it, if only a crimp connector with some way of insulating
the 'open' end?
Suggestions welcome, ready for when the occasion arises(!)

An insulated crimp with the facility to have two conductors in one end and
one in the other would seem to me like a good idea, but I don't think they
exist. I wonder why? It would make a lot of jobs easier & safer TMM.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:16:54 -0700 (PDT), GMM
had this to say:

A 'theoretical' question, because I had to take it out entirely
anyway, but what's the right thing to do with the end of a redundant
cable when you remove a socket/FCU etc? I know taking the whole thing
out is best but sometimes that's not simple. And if it was part of a
ring,crimping the free ends together would maintain the circuit but
what about an old spur?

If it's a spur, the only satisfactory way is to disconnect it at the
spur point, i.e. where it leaves the ring, and either recover the
cable entirely or chop it back as much as possible.

--
Frank Erskine

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:16:54 -0700 (PDT), GMM
had this to say:

A 'theoretical' question, because I had to take it out entirely
anyway, but what's the right thing to do with the end of a redundant
cable when you remove a socket/FCU etc? I know taking the whole thing
out is best but sometimes that's not simple. And if it was part of a
ring,crimping the free ends together would maintain the circuit but
what about an old spur?

If it's a spur, the only satisfactory way is to disconnect it at the
spur point, i.e. where it leaves the ring, and either recover the
cable entirely or chop it back as much as possible.

could you not put a junction box on the end of the cable?? terminates it
safely, and if you want to re-connect to it later you can,
mark on the box lid where the cable comes from to help the next person in
the house would be a good idea too,

GMM wrote:

A 'theoretical' question, because I had to take it out entirely
anyway, but what's the right thing to do with the end of a redundant
cable when you remove a socket/FCU etc? I know taking the whole thing
out is best but sometimes that's not simple. And if it was part of a
ring,crimping the free ends together would maintain the circuit but
what about an old spur? I've seen it done with insulating tape, and
have winced at the sight (I'd guess that self-amalagamating tape would
be a bit better but still not ideal). There must be a tidy and safe
way to do it, if only a crimp connector with some way of insulating
the 'open' end?
Suggestions welcome, ready for when the occasion arises(!)

As you say, with a ring you would rejoin the two segments when removing
an accessory.

With a spur, it is better to isolate the feed to it if possible (i.e.
find where the spur comes from and disconnect there as well). It is ok
to leave the cable itself in place if it is difficult or impossible to
remove.

When you are not able to isolate the feed, then the live end needs to be
made off safely in a suitable enclosure such as a junction box.

What you should avoid doing is leaving live cables embedded in walls
that are not within the expected cable zones (i.e. inline with a visible
accessory, or within 150mm of a corner or wall ceiling junction). Adding
labels / notes is obviously handy to help future maintainers when doing
something non obvious.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article
,
GMM wrote:
A 'theoretical' question, because I had to take it out entirely
anyway, but what's the right thing to do with the end of a redundant
cable when you remove a socket/FCU etc? I know taking the whole thing
out is best but sometimes that's not simple. And if it was part of a
ring,crimping the free ends together would maintain the circuit but
what about an old spur? I've seen it done with insulating tape, and
have winced at the sight (I'd guess that self-amalagamating tape would
be a bit better but still not ideal). There must be a tidy and safe
way to do it, if only a crimp connector with some way of insulating
the 'open' end?
Suggestions welcome, ready for when the occasion arises(!)

If it's a spur, the connections to it should be accessible by regs -
unless it is crimped or soldered which is *most* unlikely. Most will be
fed from another socket. So disconnect it there.

If you really can't I'd treat it as a non accessible connection and use
crimp connectors insulated overall with heat shrink. However if you're
removing the fitting will it be obvious there is cable in the wall etc? If
not it *must* be disconnected or protected from nails etc.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

An insulated crimp with the facility to have two conductors in one end and
one in the other would seem to me like a good idea, but I don't think they
exist. I wonder why? It would make a lot of jobs easier & safer TMM.


Wirenuts!


I'll get my coat...

Darren

On Oct 19, 9:29*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *GMM wrote:

A 'theoretical' question, because I had to take it out entirely
anyway, but what's the right thing to do with the end of a redundant
cable when you remove a socket/FCU etc? *I know taking the whole thing
out is best but sometimes that's not simple. *And if it was part of a
ring,crimping the free ends together would maintain the circuit but
what about an old spur? *I've seen it done with insulating tape, and
have winced at the sight (I'd guess that self-amalagamating tape would
be a bit better but still not ideal). *There must be a tidy and safe
way to do it, if only a crimp connector with some way of insulating
the 'open' end?
Suggestions welcome, ready for when the occasion arises(!)

*If it's a spur, the connections to it should be accessible by regs -
unless it is crimped or soldered which is *most* unlikely. Most will be
fed from another socket. So disconnect it there.

If you really can't I'd treat it as a non accessible connection and use
crimp connectors insulated overall with heat shrink. However if you're
removing the fitting will it be obvious there is cable in the wall etc? If
not it *must* be disconnected or protected from nails etc.

I think heat shrink alone would be as effective, cutting the 3 cores
to slightly different (short) lengths so the ends wont meet.


NT

dmc wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

An insulated crimp with the facility to have two conductors in one end and
one in the other would seem to me like a good idea, but I don't think they
exist. I wonder why? It would make a lot of jobs easier & safer TMM.


Wirenuts!


I'll get my coat...

Darren


When I first saw wirenuts mentioned here, several years ago, I was
reminded of having seen them way back. At the time I though that all
they did was protect a) people from sharp wire ends and b) wire ends
from plaster, plus giving a touch of protection in case someone
accidentally made a newly installed wire live. So they were really
strictly temporary.

Totally amazed when the stories about them started to be posted.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:
dmc wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

An insulated crimp with the facility to have two conductors in one
end and one in the other would seem to me like a good idea, but I
don't think they exist. I wonder why? It would make a lot of jobs
easier & safer TMM.


Wirenuts!


I'll get my coat...

Darren


When I first saw wirenuts mentioned here, several years ago, I was
reminded of having seen them way back. At the time I though that all
they did was protect a) people from sharp wire ends and b) wire ends
from plaster, plus giving a touch of protection in case someone
accidentally made a newly installed wire live. So they were really
strictly temporary.

Totally amazed when the stories about them started to be posted.

You often see those on American/Canadian TV DIY shows, always wondered what
they were about. The Wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_nut says they are not permitted on UK
installations whys that?

What were the stories? Can't see anything in the archive.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Rod wrote:
dmc wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

An insulated crimp with the facility to have two conductors in one
end and one in the other would seem to me like a good idea, but I
don't think they exist. I wonder why? It would make a lot of jobs
easier & safer TMM.

Wirenuts!


I'll get my coat...

Darren

When I first saw wirenuts mentioned here, several years ago, I was
reminded of having seen them way back. At the time I though that all
they did was protect a) people from sharp wire ends and b) wire ends
from plaster, plus giving a touch of protection in case someone
accidentally made a newly installed wire live. So they were really
strictly temporary.

Totally amazed when the stories about them started to be posted.

You often see those on American/Canadian TV DIY shows, always wondered what
they were about. The Wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_nut says they are not permitted on UK
installations whys that?

What were the stories? Can't see anything in the archive.


Don't know where you are looking (obviously), but:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/Wirenuts-posts

Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

GMM wrote :
A 'theoretical' question, because I had to take it out entirely
anyway, but what's the right thing to do with the end of a redundant
cable when you remove a socket/FCU etc? I know taking the whole thing
out is best but sometimes that's not simple. And if it was part of a
ring,crimping the free ends together would maintain the circuit but
what about an old spur? I've seen it done with insulating tape, and
have winced at the sight (I'd guess that self-amalagamating tape would
be a bit better but still not ideal). There must be a tidy and safe
way to do it, if only a crimp connector with some way of insulating
the 'open' end?
Suggestions welcome, ready for when the occasion arises(!)

Cut the cores to different lengths, fold them back on themselves along
the outer, then apply tape over the top.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who didn't know...though now we have no
excuse for not doing it properly, having read the erudite responses
this brought ;-)

I've often thought a few alternative configurations of crimps could be
useful, although I guess one that had a double on one end and a single
on the other would need a non-standard crimper. Presumably though, if
you join two cables to one, there might be some implications in terms
of current capacity, with no fcu in the way. (I'm sure that's not
always the case though, just can't think of a good example on a Sunday
evening!)



On 18 Oct, 23:58, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
GMM wrote:
A 'theoretical' question, because I had to take it out entirely
anyway, but what's the right thing to do with the end of a redundant
cable when you remove a socket/FCU etc?

Interesting question that, I'd like more info as well from those
knowledgeable chaps that hang around here.

I know taking the whole thing
out is best but sometimes that's not simple. *And if it was part of a
ring,crimping the free ends together would maintain the circuit but
what about an old spur? *I've seen it done with insulating tape, and
have winced at the sight (I'd guess that self-amalagamating tape would
be a bit better but still not ideal).

Most common way I've seen seems to be choc blocks with or without tape. *Ive
also found the 'twisted together with insulating tape' method & also winced.

There must be a tidy and safe
way to do it, if only a crimp connector with some way of insulating
the 'open' end?
Suggestions welcome, ready for when the occasion arises(!)

An insulated crimp with the facility to have two conductors in one end and
one in the other would seem to me like a good idea, but I don't think they
exist. *I wonder why? *It would make a lot of jobs easier & safer TMM..

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

What you should avoid doing is leaving live cables embedded in walls
that are not within the expected cable zones (i.e. inline with a visible
accessory, or within 150mm of a corner or wall ceiling junction). Adding
labels / notes is obviously handy to help future maintainers when doing
something non obvious.


My house seems to be riddled with diagonal runs, installed, by the
look of things, when it was built 40-ish years ago. I guess the fact
that they are all covered with galvanised capping makes them ~sort of~
alright, although that was part of the reason why I removed the
redundant cable that led to this question (that, and the fact that it
provided an outlet in a small cloakroom - just seemed easier to be
done with it). It makes guessing the route of a cable a lot more
fun......

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:05:43 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be GMM
wrote this:-

My house seems to be riddled with diagonal runs,

At one time there was nothing to outlaw this.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

The Medway Handyman wrote:

An insulated crimp with the facility to have two conductors in one end and
one in the other would seem to me like a good idea, but I don't think they
exist. I wonder why? It would make a lot of jobs easier & safer TMM.

Your bog standard butt connector crimp does in fact allow you to do just
that if you pick an appropriate size. So for example a blue one will
usually take wires up one end (oh err!). The thing to watch is if
selecting one to take multiple wires on one end, that you do not end up
with a solitary wire at the other than is undersized for the crimp and
you don't get a good crimp as a result. (you can always double up the
end in extreme cases)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news:H2EKk.73870

You often see those on American/Canadian TV DIY shows, always wondered what

Are you referring to Holmes on Homes any chance?

Slider wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message news:H2EKk.73870

You often see those on American/Canadian TV DIY shows, always
wondered what

Are you referring to Holmes on Homes any chance?

I was, but I've also seen them on This Old House with our Norm.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk