hi all

the radiator in my living room has gone stone cold. every other radiator in
the house is working fine. any idea what could be wrong?

cheers

dustie wrote:
hi all

the radiator in my living room has gone stone cold. every other
radiator in the house is working fine. any idea what could be wrong?

cheers

Have you tried turning it on - or even bleeding the air out of it as a
start?

Have you tried turning it on - or even bleeding the air out of it as a
start?

I'm not completely stupid. It's always "on" - just like all the other
radiators in the house.

Tried a bleed key and water came out but no air.

On 2 Oct, 21:47, "Unbeliever" wrote:
dustie wrote:
hi all

the radiator in my living room has gone stone cold. *every other
radiator in the house is working fine. *any idea what could be wrong?

cheers

Have you tried turning it on - or even bleeding the air out of it as a
start?

You have an air lock; I have a radiator where it happens. Turn the
pump up to full blast and go round and shut all the other radiators so
that all the water is being forced through that single radiator, you
may have to turn off the hot water and close the bypass if you have
one. You should hear the water start to gurgle and hiss through this
radiator and you should feel it begin to warm up. Then the airlock
will be cleared and it will work OK until the next time!

dustie wrote:
hi all

the radiator in my living room has gone stone cold. every other radiator in
the house is working fine. any idea what could be wrong


Two possibilities - its full of gas and needs bleeding, or it has a
thermostatic radiator valve that hos got stuck in the closed position.
Sometimes removing the thermostatic head will reveal a pin - this is
normally !"up" in the open position. If it is stuck down, sometimes a it
can be pulled free with pliers, or failing that a sharp tap on the side
of the valve with a hammer may also help.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
"dustie" writes:
Have you tried turning it on - or even bleeding the air out of it as a
start?

I'm not completely stupid. It's always "on" - just like all the other
radiators in the house.

Tried a bleed key and water came out but no air.

Another possibility is a thermostatic radiator valve which has
got stuck off. If you have a TRV on that radiator, unscrew and
remove the head, and make sure the pin under it can be pressed
in (you'll need something like a teaspoon to act as a thimble).
If it won't, then it's probably already stuck down. You can
sometimes free up by pulling it up with pliers, but people
have managed to pull it right out by doing this and end up
with water coming out, so you might not want to try freeing it
up if you find it's stuck.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

you have an air lock; I have a radiator where it happens. Turn the
pump up to full blast and go round and shut all the other radiators so
that all the water is being forced through that single radiator,

ah, slight snag there in that most of the radiator valve heads (is that what
they're called? the bits where you can chang ethe heat setting...)
have long since broken off so all the radiators are technically fully "on"
all the time. I can't actually shut them off anymore!!

Two possibilities - its full of gas and needs bleeding, or it has a
thermostatic radiator valve that hos got stuck in the closed position.
Sometimes removing the thermostatic head will reveal a pin - this is
normally !"up" in the open position. If it is stuck down, sometimes a it
can be pulled free with pliers, or failing that a sharp tap on the side of
the valve with a hammer may also help.



Or a sharp tap downwards on the pin, counter-intuitive though it might seem.

it has a thermostatic radiator valve that hos got stuck in the closed
position. Sometimes removing the thermostatic head will reveal a pin -
this is normally !"up" in the open position. If it is stuck down,
sometimes a it can be pulled free with pliers, or failing that a sharp tap
on the side of the valve with a hammer may also help.

Funnily enough, I had to do that many years ago as the radiator also went
cold back then - I took the valve head off, gave it a tap with a hammer and
it popped up and has worked ok since (I was never able to the valve head
back on though as it broke so I just left it as it was).

Looking at it all now, the valve/pin does seems to be stuck down as it
doesn't go in any further when pressed.- however, using some pliers, it
lifts up very easily so it's obviously not jammed down like it was before.
It's a little watery round that area too - is this anything to worry about?

I should also point out that this whole area of the radiator (the valve?)
has been making a whistling noise for quite literally years. Tonight is the
quietest I've ever heard it! Maybe it's been on its way out for years?

wrote:
On 2 Oct, 21:47, "Unbeliever" wrote:
dustie wrote:
hi all
the radiator in my living room has gone stone cold. every other
radiator in the house is working fine. any idea what could be wrong?
cheers
Have you tried turning it on - or even bleeding the air out of it as a
start?

You have an air lock; I have a radiator where it happens. Turn the

Worth noting that air locks are only likely to happen on vented systems,
and quite unlikely on a sealed system. Sinec we don't know what system
the OP has its not possible to state with any certainly.

pump up to full blast and go round and shut all the other radiators so
that all the water is being forced through that single radiator, you
may have to turn off the hot water and close the bypass if you have
one. You should hear the water start to gurgle and hiss through this
radiator and you should feel it begin to warm up. Then the airlock
will be cleared and it will work OK until the next time!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

dustie wrote:
Have you tried turning it on - or even bleeding the air out of it as
a start?

I'm not completely stupid. It's always "on" - just like all the other
radiators in the house.

I didn't imply that you are "stupid". As you gave so little information, I
merely advised a check for the simple problem (what I usually call an 'idiot
check') - it is quite easy to turn a valve off and then forget about it.

Tried a bleed key and water came out but no air.

Fair enough, but it would have helped if you had given that information in
your original post.

Now the indications point to the fact that you either have an airlock in the
radiator (or a pipe to it) or a blockage - the advice for clearing those has
been given elsewhere in this thread.

If those methods fail, then simply take the radiator off, use a hose pipe to
reverse flush the radiatior to clear any blockage or sludge, refit it,
refill and bleed - ensuring that that central heating pump has been turned
off first,

To check the pipes leading to the radiator for blockages - whilst the
radiator is off, put a container under each valve and then open it (not both
together by the way). It will then be obvious if the pipes are blocked or
free flowing.

Also check that the bleeding nipple on the radiator is level, or higher than
the other end - as this can create the conditions for an airlock.

These check ate not exhaustive, but are the simpler ones to make.

Unbeliever

Worth noting that air locks are only likely to happen on vented systems,
and quite unlikely on a sealed system. Sinec we don't know what system the
OP has its not possible to state with any certainly.

The OP (me) doesn't actually know!! Can you possible clarify the difference
between the two?

dustie wrote:
Worth noting that air locks are only likely to happen on vented systems,
and quite unlikely on a sealed system. Sinec we don't know what system the
OP has its not possible to state with any certainly.

The OP (me) doesn't actually know!! Can you possible clarify the difference
between the two?

Vented system (older/traditional style systems usually) has a feed and
expansion tank somewhere high up (usually in the loft) that is connected
to the system. This allows water to flow into the pipework and rads
under the force of gravity. As the system heats up and the water
expands, the small tank provides space for it to expand into.

A sealed (or pressurised) system is a closed loop that is not open to
the air at any point. Water is introduced from the cold mains via a
filling loop, and there is a pressure gauge to read off how much is in
there. Somewhere (often in the boiler) there is also an expansion vessel
to allow the expanding water somewhere to go (otherwise the pressure
would rise significantly).

See Ed's FAQ for more details:

http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

dustie wrote:

Looking at it all now, the valve/pin does seems to be stuck down as it
doesn't go in any further when pressed.- however, using some pliers, it
lifts up very easily so it's obviously not jammed down like it was before.

It should be sprung up - such that you have to push it down, and when
you let go, it should string up again. It may be that the valve is
seized but the pin is not actually attached to it - so pulling it up
moved the pin but leaves the valve in the same place.

It's a little watery round that area too - is this anything to worry about?

Also suggests the valve is knackered alas.

I should also point out that this whole area of the radiator (the valve?)
has been making a whistling noise for quite literally years. Tonight is the
quietest I've ever heard it! Maybe it's been on its way out for years?

Some TMVs whistle when on the return rather than the feed - so it might
just be it is on the wrong end of the rad.

If you shut the valve at the other end of the rad completely, and then
bleed it - does water still come out and continue to do so, or does it
quickly fade away to a dribble? If the latter, it would suggest no water
is getting through the valve regardless of the pin position. Assuming
the percussive maintenance option does not fix it, then its new valve
time at that point.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

dustie wrote:
hi all

the radiator in my living room has gone stone cold. every other radiator in
the house is working fine. any idea what could be wrong?

cheers


its full of air. Bleed it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
dustie wrote:
hi all

the radiator in my living room has gone stone cold. every other
radiator in the house is working fine. any idea what could be wrong?

cheers

its full of air. Bleed it.
hes tried that and water comes out you must have missed that post

--
Kevin R
Reply address works

Kevin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
dustie wrote:
hi all

the radiator in my living room has gone stone cold. every other
radiator in the house is working fine. any idea what could be wrong?

cheers

its full of air. Bleed it.
hes tried that and water comes out you must have missed that post

yes..I do these things in post order.

Having read the rest, sounds like an airlock.

dustie wrote:
you have an air lock; I have a radiator where it happens. Turn the
pump up to full blast and go round and shut all the other
radiators so that all the water is being forced through that
single radiator,

ah, slight snag there in that most of the radiator valve heads (is
that what they're called? the bits where you can chang ethe heat
setting...)

TRV's Thermostatic Radiator Valves.

have long since broken off so all the radiators are technically fully
"on" all the time. I can't actually shut them off anymore!!

Sounds to me like you need to bite the bullet & change all the TRV's. It
must be costing you a fortune for heating.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 21:11:11 +0100, "dustie"
wrote:

hi all

the radiator in my living room has gone stone cold. every other radiator in
the house is working fine. any idea what could be wrong?

cheers


Just had that problem when I tested the system. Radiator bunged up.
Needed flushing.

hi all

Problem fixed! My stepdad (who's a plumber) advised me to hit the valve/pin
with a hammer a couple of days like I did years ago when the pin first got
stuck. I did so and it didn't make any difference as previously posted. He
just came round and REALLY HIT IT! It's working now. Words fail me...

Thanks for everyone's advice.

TRV's Thermostatic Radiator Valves.

have long since broken off so all the radiators are technically fully
"on" all the time. I can't actually shut them off anymore!!

Sounds to me like you need to bite the bullet & change all the TRV's. It
must be costing you a fortune for heating.

Can someone clarify for me, are these easy to replace? Does one size fit
all, so to speak, or do you have to get ones that go with your specific
radiator?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
dustie wrote:

TRV's Thermostatic Radiator Valves.

have long since broken off so all the radiators are technically
fully "on" all the time. I can't actually shut them off anymore!!

Sounds to me like you need to bite the bullet & change all the
TRV's. It must be costing you a fortune for heating.

Can someone clarify for me, are these easy to replace? Does one
size fit all, so to speak, or do you have to get ones that go with
your specific radiator?

TRVs are not specific to particular radiators, and are pretty much
inter-changeable between makes *provided* you replace the whole valve -
which requires a partial drain-down of the system.

If the 'wet' part of the valve is ok, and you simply want to replace the
part containing the thermostatic capsule (which you can do *without* a
drain-down) you need a thermostatic head for the specific type (make/model)
of valve - they're *not* all the same.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

dustie wrote:
TRV's Thermostatic Radiator Valves.

have long since broken off so all the radiators are technically fully
"on" all the time. I can't actually shut them off anymore!!
Sounds to me like you need to bite the bullet & change all the TRV's. It
must be costing you a fortune for heating.

Can someone clarify for me, are these easy to replace? Does one size fit
all, so to speak, or do you have to get ones that go with your specific
radiator?

Yes and no ;-)

When you buy a valve, it will come with a matching tail that screws into
the radiator[1]. So you can always be sure of being able to get a good
fit between rad and valve.

There are two other gottchas though. Firstly the spacing between valve
and rad can vary (some modern valves like the Pegler Terrier II, have a
free floating olive on the rad tail that lets you vary the actual length
of the tail by about 10mm the first time you fit it. Sometimes you can
fix a mismatch simply by shifting the rad on its mountings a little.

The second one, is the maximum depth of insertion of the 15mm pipe into
the compression fitting is not always the same. Sometimes if you are
unlucky, you can find a new valve won't make a good seal onto the pipe
using the old olive and backnut. This can be fixed by replacing the
olive though.

So in summary, if you are lucky, you can buy a new one, reuse the
existing rad tail and pipe positions, and its just a like for like swap.
If you are really unlucky, you need to change the tails, and tit about
with the pipework.

[1] some are screwed with assistance of a spanner, others need a large
Allen key stuffed up em. A good few turns of PTFE tape on thread first
helps ensure a watertight fitting.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
dustie wrote:

Can someone clarify for me, are these easy to replace? Does one
size fit all, so to speak, or do you have to get ones that go with
your specific radiator?

Yes and no ;-)

SNIP

So in summary, if you are lucky, you can buy a new one, reuse the
existing rad tail and pipe positions, and its just a like for like
swap. If you are really unlucky, you need to change the tails, and
tit about with the pipework.

I recently changed all mine & found the threads on the old pipework didn't
match the threads on the new valves - almost nipped up, but not quite - so I
had to change the nuts & olives.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:


When you buy a valve, it will come with a matching tail that screws
into the radiator[1]. So you can always be sure of being able to get
a good fit between rad and valve.

There are two other gottchas though. Firstly the spacing between valve
and rad can vary (some modern valves like the Pegler Terrier II, have
a free floating olive on the rad tail that lets you vary the actual
length of the tail by about 10mm the first time you fit it. Sometimes
you can fix a mismatch simply by shifting the rad on its mountings a
little.
I recently replaced all my (motley collection of) valves (both ends) for
TRVs one end and end drain-off lockshields the other end. I had no problem
with offsets - they were all close enough to fit without any pipework mods.
[It would have been different had I used valves with the drain-off in the
tail because these *do* increase the offset].

The second one, is the maximum depth of insertion of the 15mm pipe
into the compression fitting is not always the same. Sometimes if you
are unlucky, you can find a new valve won't make a good seal onto the
pipe using the old olive and backnut. This can be fixed by replacing
the olive though.

Yes, that *was* a problem in a few cases - the old olive was too far down
the pipe to make a seal with the new valve. In one case, I cut a bit off the
end of the pipe but mostly, I removed the olive and re-made the joint.

Another 'gottcha' which I discovered is that the threads are not the same on
all compression nuts. Whereas most 15mm compression fittings have 1/2"BSP
threads, some have a finer threads. In a few cases, I had to remove the
compression nut and olive and replace them with the new ones.

But, as I said in my other post, if you replace the *whole* valve -
including tail and compression nut/olive on the supply pipe - you can
normally swap one valve for a different make/model with no problems.
However, if swapping just the thermostatic head on a TRV, it *must* be the
right one for the valve.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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