Hi,

Does anyone know if there are any regulations governing where vents
can be placed?

My neighbour's garage comes right up to our boundary. He had work
done on his house that coverted the garage to a kitchen and that set
of "workers" put the vent for the boiler about a foot in from the
boundary but facing up the drive. Now they have tried to move it to
have it coming out of the wall facing my property. Unfortunatley,
there is not enough space left on his property and it would come over
the boundary line slightly. So I slightly said, "No way." But
assuming there had been just enough space, is it permiissible for
someone to site vents so that they immediately put the exhaust fumes
over another property?

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:42:46 +0100, Geoff
wrote:

Hi,

Does anyone know if there are any regulations governing where vents
can be placed?

My neighbour's garage comes right up to our boundary. He had work
done on his house that coverted the garage to a kitchen and that set
of "workers" put the vent for the boiler about a foot in from the
boundary but facing up the drive. Now they have tried to move it to
have it coming out of the wall facing my property. Unfortunatley,
there is not enough space left on his property and it would come over
the boundary line slightly. So I slightly said, "No way." But
assuming there had been just enough space, is it permiissible for
someone to site vents so that they immediately put the exhaust fumes
over another property?

All you'd have to do is to erect a wall also up to the boundary,
directly facing his flue terminal....

;-)
--
Frank Erskine

In article ,
Geoff wrote:
My neighbour's garage comes right up to our boundary. He had work
done on his house that coverted the garage to a kitchen and that set
of "workers" put the vent for the boiler about a foot in from the
boundary but facing up the drive. Now they have tried to move it to
have it coming out of the wall facing my property. Unfortunatley,
there is not enough space left on his property and it would come over
the boundary line slightly. So I slightly said, "No way." But
assuming there had been just enough space, is it permiissible for
someone to site vents so that they immediately put the exhaust fumes
over another property?

A decent boiler allows the flue to be extended vertically to get over any
such problem.

--
*Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jun 10, 4:42 pm, Geoff wrote:
Hi,

Does anyone know if there are any regulations governing where vents
can be placed?

My neighbour's garage comes right up to our boundary. He had work
done on his house that coverted the garage to a kitchen and that set
of "workers" put the vent for the boiler about a foot in from the
boundary but facing up the drive. Now they have tried to move it to
have it coming out of the wall facing my property. Unfortunatley,
there is not enough space left on his property and it would come over
the boundary line slightly. So I slightly said, "No way." But
assuming there had been just enough space, is it permiissible for
someone to site vents so that they immediately put the exhaust fumes
over another property?

600mm clearance needed according to my quick reading of the regs.

A

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:42:46 +0100, Geoff wrote:

Hi,

Does anyone know if there are any regulations governing where vents can
be placed?

My neighbour's garage comes right up to our boundary. He had work done
on his house that coverted the garage to a kitchen and that set of
"workers" put the vent for the boiler about a foot in from the boundary
but facing up the drive. Now they have tried to move it to have it
coming out of the wall facing my property. Unfortunatley, there is not
enough space left on his property and it would come over the boundary
line slightly. So I slightly said, "No way." But assuming there had
been just enough space, is it permiissible for someone to site vents so
that they immediately put the exhaust fumes over another property?

There are a load of rules governing this.
IIRC The flue has to be at least 2.5m from the property boundary, at that
distance any remaining visible plume will be drifting upwards anyway.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:31:07 +0000 (UTC), Ed Sirett
wrote:

There are a load of rules governing this.
IIRC The flue has to be at least 2.5m from the property boundary, at that
distance any remaining visible plume will be drifting upwards anyway.

Thanks Ed.

"Geoff" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Does anyone know if there are any regulations governing where vents
can be placed?

My neighbour's garage comes right up to our boundary. He had work
done on his house that coverted the garage to a kitchen and that set
of "workers" put the vent for the boiler about a foot in from the
boundary but facing up the drive. Now they have tried to move it to
have it coming out of the wall facing my property. Unfortunatley,
there is not enough space left on his property and it would come over
the boundary line slightly. So I slightly said, "No way." But
assuming there had been just enough space, is it permiissible for
someone to site vents so that they immediately put the exhaust fumes
over another property?

There does not seem to be any regulation preventing a flue discharging over
a boundary, just recommendations to keep the discharge on the property in
which the appliance is fitted.

There are regs of course on minimum distances from adjacent buildings and
structures.

If the flue terminal itself is over your boundary then that is another
matter.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:42:46 +0100, Geoff wrote:

Does anyone know if there are any regulations governing where vents
can be placed?

My neighbour's garage comes right up to our boundary. He had work
done on his house that coverted the garage to a kitchen and that set
of "workers" put the vent for the boiler about a foot in from the
boundary but facing up the drive. Now they have tried to move it to
have it coming out of the wall facing my property. Unfortunatley,
there is not enough space left on his property and it would come over
the boundary line slightly. So I slightly said, "No way." But
assuming there had been just enough space, is it permiissible for
someone to site vents so that they immediately put the exhaust fumes
over another property?

No. In siting a boiler flue (assume you mean a flue rather than a vent)
one has to take into consideration that the neighbour might build up to
the boundary line and the flue siting must still comply with regs. These
are broadly set out in Approved Document L of the Building Regs. Generally
a flue facing a boundary will have to be 1.2m (IIRC) from it.

There's also a recommendation that condensing flues should be sited to
avoid annoyance from the plume of mist they produce, and I think a figure
of 2.5m for a flue facing a boundary is suggested.

--
John Stumbles

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana
Tits like coconuts

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...

There's also a recommendation that condensing flues should be sited to
avoid annoyance from the plume of mist they produce, and I think a figure
of 2.5m for a flue facing a boundary is suggested.

If its a condensing boiler what produces the mist?
How much don't they condense out and how much heat is wasted because they
don't?
I just wondered when a new super condensing boiler was going to be required
if the condensing ones are so bad they leave troublesome plumes?

In article ,
"dennis@home" writes:
If its a condensing boiler what produces the mist?

The condensate.

How much don't they condense out and how much heat is wasted because they
don't?

Depends on the return water temperature.

I just wondered when a new super condensing boiler was going to be required
if the condensing ones are so bad they leave troublesome plumes?

The plume is as a result of condensate. If it was still steam,
that's invisible.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"dennis@home" writes:
If its a condensing boiler what produces the mist?

The condensate.

How much don't they condense out and how much heat is wasted because they
don't?

Depends on the return water temperature.

I just wondered when a new super condensing boiler was going to be
required
if the condensing ones are so bad they leave troublesome plumes?

The plume is as a result of condensate. If it was still steam,
that's invisible.

And if it had condensed and given up its heat to the heat exchanger it would
drip off and not be a plume.

In article ,
"dennis@home" writes:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"dennis@home" writes:
If its a condensing boiler what produces the mist?

The condensate.

How much don't they condense out and how much heat is wasted because they
don't?

Depends on the return water temperature.

I just wondered when a new super condensing boiler was going to be
required
if the condensing ones are so bad they leave troublesome plumes?

The plume is as a result of condensate. If it was still steam,
that's invisible.

And if it had condensed and given up its heat to the heat exchanger it would
drip off and not be a plume.

Your assertion is not borne out by reality.
The flue gas temperature of mine is 40-45C.
There can't be any steam in that.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 2008-06-11 09:00:39 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...

There's also a recommendation that condensing flues should be sited to
avoid annoyance from the plume of mist they produce, and I think a figure
of 2.5m for a flue facing a boundary is suggested.

If its a condensing boiler what produces the mist?

The byproduct of combustion is water in the form (initially) of steam -
meaning water in the gaseous state. This is invisible and should not
be confused with what many people all "steam", the visible cloudy
stuff. That is water vapour and consists of very tiny droplets of
water.

There is latent heat of condensation which is the heat released when
the steam changes state from the gaseous (invisible) to liquid
(visible) states. The heat exchanger of the boiler is able to use
that and it's added to the combustion heat.

The important thing is that the condensation takes place in the heat
exchanger itself and so the performance depends on the temperature of
the coolest part of the exchanger - i.e. the return water temperature.

Some boilers do a good job of collecting the condensate at the water
vapour stage in the boiler itself so that it goes to the drain.
Others are not so good at that and it comes out of the flue as a plume.

From the heat recovery point of view, it doesn't make much difference
because any further realistic heat recovery after the water has become
visible vapour is not very much at all - i.e. as long as the actual
condensing to visible vapour goes on inside, that's what really
matters. Presence or absence of the visible plume doesn't signify
much at all in terms of the final efficiency of the boiler.

How much don't they condense out and how much heat is wasted because
they don't?
I just wondered when a new super condensing boiler was going to be
required if the condensing ones are so bad they leave troublesome
plumes?

In article 484fa143@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall writes:
Some boilers do a good job of collecting the condensate at the water
vapour stage in the boiler itself so that it goes to the drain.
Others are not so good at that and it comes out of the flue as a plume.

There's one, I've heard, which has no condensate drain, and
explicitly injects the condensate into the flue gas as its
method of disposal.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 10:07:42 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article 484fa143@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall writes:
Some boilers do a good job of collecting the condensate at the water
vapour stage in the boiler itself so that it goes to the drain. Others
are not so good at that and it comes out of the flue as a plume.

There's one, I've heard, which has no condensate drain, and explicitly
injects the condensate into the flue gas as its method of disposal.

IIRC, This is the Atmos which is favoured by you-know-who this season.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article 484fa143@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall writes:
Some boilers do a good job of collecting the condensate at the water
vapour stage in the boiler itself so that it goes to the drain.
Others are not so good at that and it comes out of the flue as a plume.

There's one, I've heard, which has no condensate drain, and
explicitly injects the condensate into the flue gas as its
method of disposal.

The Atmos Intergas.

Andy Hall wrote:

The byproduct of combustion is water in the form (initially) of steam
- meaning water in the gaseous state. This is invisible and should
not be confused with what many people all "steam", the visible cloudy
stuff. That is water vapour and consists of very tiny droplets of
water.

Nope. Water vapour is invisible and water droplets. Otherwise air would
be translucent on a humid day.

--
LSR

On 2008-06-11 11:23:43 +0100, "LSR" said:

Andy Hall wrote:

The byproduct of combustion is water in the form (initially) of steam
- meaning water in the gaseous state. This is invisible and should
not be confused with what many people all "steam", the visible cloudy
stuff. That is water vapour and consists of very tiny droplets of
water.

Nope. Water vapour is invisible and water droplets. Otherwise air would
be translucent on a humid day.


The important point is the difference between the gaseous and liquid
phases in terms of latent heat and that the visible stuff is the liquid
phase, i.e. post condensation having happened.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:484fa143@qaanaaq...


From the heat recovery point of view, it doesn't make much difference
because any further realistic heat recovery after the water has become
visible vapour is not very much at all - i.e. as long as the actual
condensing to visible vapour goes on inside, that's what really matters.
Presence or absence of the visible plume doesn't signify much at all in
terms of the final efficiency of the boiler.

Are you sure?
To form droplets it would have to condense in the air, this would warm the
air but may not warm the heat exchanger.
I think it is wasting heat condensing out after it has left the boiler.
If it condensed inside the boiler it would drip out.

The fan is probably too fast for the flu.

dennis@home wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:484fa143@qaanaaq...


From the heat recovery point of view, it doesn't make much difference
because any further realistic heat recovery after the water has become
visible vapour is not very much at all - i.e. as long as the actual
condensing to visible vapour goes on inside, that's what really
matters. Presence or absence of the visible plume doesn't signify much
at all in terms of the final efficiency of the boiler.

Are you sure?
To form droplets it would have to condense in the air, this would warm
the air but may not warm the heat exchanger.
I think it is wasting heat condensing out after it has left the boiler.
If it condensed inside the boiler it would drip out.

The fan is probably too fast for the flu.

Seems to me the biggest *single* factor about plumes is the weather.
High humidity, cool/cold day. Visible plumes form easily - and I suspect
that this will happen even when most of the water has already been
condensed out within the boiler. You don't need that much water to make
visible clouds.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On 2008-06-11 19:53:23 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:484fa143@qaanaaq...


From the heat recovery point of view, it doesn't make much difference
because any further realistic heat recovery after the water has become
visible vapour is not very much at all - i.e. as long as the actual
condensing to visible vapour goes on inside, that's what really
matters. Presence or absence of the visible plume doesn't signify much
at all in terms of the final efficiency of the boiler.

Are you sure?
To form droplets it would have to condense in the air, this would warm
the air but may not warm the heat exchanger.
I think it is wasting heat condensing out after it has left the boiler.
If it condensed inside the boiler it would drip out.

The fan is probably too fast for the flu.



This is where the confusion arises.

When you have heat gain and loss without a change of state the heat
transfer is based on the temperature rise or fall.

This is why there is a fairly simple equation for heat loss through
walls, ceilings and windows etc. Basically that one shows that he
rate of heat loss is proportional to the temperature difference and the
area involved. It's a linear relationship. The same principle
applies if you have a emperature *without a change of state* between
two points in a boiler.

However.....

Latent heat is an entirely different thing. It is the heat that is
released as there is a change of state between gas and liquid or liquid
and solid and is quite different to the mechanism of temperature drop.
For example, a fridge uses latent heat in two places. Inside the
fridge, the refrigerant inside the heat exchanger turns from a liquid
to a gas. To do this, it needs to absorb its latent heat of
evaporation. That comes from the content of the fridge. Outside, the
compressor compresses the refrigerant gas until it condenses to beome a
liquid. As it does so, it gives of its latent heat of condensation.
In effect, the heat has been picked up inside the fridge and dumped
outside. The condensing boiler works with the second of these and
the heat given off is transferred to the heat exchanger and hence the
water.

The point is that in the boiler, the condensation and the latent heat
release happen before the combustion products reach the flue. Since
that has already happened, it doesn't really matter about whether water
is collected inside the boiler or outside. At that point, the latent
heat has been released either way.

The issue is not to confuse what you can and can't see with the change
of state where latent heat is released. That heat is much more than
that as a result of the temperature drop after condensation.

On 11 Jun, 09:00, "dennis@home" wrote:

If its a condensing boiler what produces the mist?

According to your recent post, heat from lights causes condensation...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...

There's also a recommendation that condensing flues should be sited to
avoid annoyance from the plume of mist they produce, and I think a figure
of 2.5m for a flue facing a boundary is suggested.

If its a condensing boiler what produces the mist?

This one was telling me how modulating burners work a few weeks back. Duh!!!

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...


This one was telling me how modulating burners work a few weeks back.
Duh!!!

You were wrong then so how about an answer this time?
To the whole question that is.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...


This one was telling me how modulating burners work a few weeks back.
Duh!!!

You were wrong then so how about an answer this time?
To the whole question that is.

This goon hasn't clue how condensing works and knows all about burners now.
Duh! Some mothers......