It's time to fix our wobbly fencing. I could just replace the panels
(after repairing one of the rotted posts with one of those metpost
repair spurs), but we'd like a gate in the fencing. Of course if I do
that I'll need to take out the old posts and put new in in different
locations.

The problem is that there are two sewers running under the fence. I
have the plan that came with the title deeds showing Foul sewer
(adopted) and Surface water sewer (adopted), but that's just accurate
enough to tell me that they are in the area.

We were planning to dig down 750mm (exposed to strong winds) and
concrete wooden posts in. What's the best way of digging the new post
holes and not damaging the sewer pipes?

Should I use those concrete-in metposts, as they only go down 450mm?
I'm worried that they won't be stable enough with a 5.5' feather edge
fence on top because the wind hits it square on.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

It's time to fix our wobbly fencing. I could just replace the panels
(after repairing one of the rotted posts with one of those metpost
repair spurs), but we'd like a gate in the fencing. Of course if I do
that I'll need to take out the old posts and put new in in different
locations.

The problem is that there are two sewers running under the fence. I
have the plan that came with the title deeds showing Foul sewer
(adopted) and Surface water sewer (adopted), but that's just accurate
enough to tell me that they are in the area.

We were planning to dig down 750mm (exposed to strong winds) and
concrete wooden posts in. What's the best way of digging the new post
holes and not damaging the sewer pipes?

Should I use those concrete-in metposts, as they only go down 450mm?
I'm worried that they won't be stable enough with a 5.5' feather edge
fence on top because the wind hits it square on.

How deep are the sewers? Mine are over 2 metres, so fence posts above them
wouldn't be a problem. If you don't know how deep they are, you can probably
find out by lifting the lid of one or more inspection chambers. That should
also give you the line of the sewers.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

wrote:

We were planning to dig down 750mm (exposed to strong winds) and
concrete wooden posts in. What's the best way of digging the new post
holes and not damaging the sewer pipes?

A spade. They're pretty tough, you'd have to be really ham fisted to
break one by hand. A machine or a pickaxe would break one with no
problem (as my neighbour found out...)

I'd also suspect a metpost would puncture a plastic one quite nicely, or
crack a ceramic one.

Andy

On 9 Jun, 23:20, Andy Champ wrote:


A spade. *They're pretty tough, you'd have to be really ham fisted to
break one by hand. *A machine or a pickaxe would break one with no
problem (as my neighbour found out...)

I'd also suspect a metpost would puncture a plastic one quite nicely, or
crack a ceramic one.

Andy

Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of lifting a cover to determine depth,
although that might be a bit risky as the nearest cover is some
distance away in the road and the intervening ground is a variable-
gradient hill.

Nice to know I should be okay with hand tools. Hopefully the ground
is less impacted than on the other side of the property (clay newbuild
territory). There I needed a pickaxe to get down 2', which might be
the wrong tool with all those pipes around . I can see the worry
every time I hit a stone is going to slow this one down. Maybe I'll
leave the old posts in place until after I've got the new ones in,
just in case.

Oh, BTW the metpost in question is actually blunt ended. You dig a
450mm cube, drop a load of cement/ballast in and fix the fitting in
that. Never used them though, so I'm not sure if they're any good.
Although I find metposts in general ugly, I like the idea of easy post
replacement. I think I'll use the spike ones for the timber compost
bins.

wrote:
On 9 Jun, 23:20, Andy Champ wrote:


A spade. They're pretty tough, you'd have to be really ham fisted to
break one by hand. A machine or a pickaxe would break one with no
problem (as my neighbour found out...)

I'd also suspect a metpost would puncture a plastic one quite nicely, or
crack a ceramic one.

Andy

Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of lifting a cover to determine depth,
although that might be a bit risky as the nearest cover is some
distance away in the road and the intervening ground is a variable-
gradient hill.

Nice to know I should be okay with hand tools. Hopefully the ground
is less impacted than on the other side of the property (clay newbuild
territory). There I needed a pickaxe to get down 2', which might be
the wrong tool with all those pipes around . I can see the worry
every time I hit a stone is going to slow this one down. Maybe I'll
leave the old posts in place until after I've got the new ones in,
just in case.

Oh, BTW the metpost in question is actually blunt ended. You dig a
450mm cube, drop a load of cement/ballast in and fix the fitting in
that. Never used them though, so I'm not sure if they're any good.
Although I find metposts in general ugly, I like the idea of easy post
replacement. I think I'll use the spike ones for the timber compost
bins.

A number of years ago I used a couple (yes, just two) metposts - spiked
sort. After incredible effort, using the 'proper' tool, they were just
about usable. This year, I took them out and installed new posts into
concrete.

The original metposts had twisted as they went in. I had done what I
could to straighten them but they always were slightly off square.
Seeing the state of the spike when it came out showed just how bad they
were.

They had not gone in as far as I had wanted - but I could get away with
that. Having now dug out the same position, the large flints explained
why they would go no further.

Due to the twisthing and some degree of buckling, the metposts were more
heavily rusted than I expected.

I can see their utility in a place without stones - nice deep soil. But
not in most of the places I have ever lived!

As regards the concrete type. Well, they also sell bolt down ones. Seems
to me that it would make more sense if the concrete ones were two part -
the top being like the bolt down, the bottom having four studs. Encase
the lower part in the concrete. Then screw down the top part. Main
advantage? If it is not perfectly true, you could add washers to true it
up. Also would allow replacement of upper part if needed.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

" wrote:

We were planning to dig down 750mm (exposed to strong winds) and
concrete wooden posts in. What's the best way of digging the new post
holes and not damaging the sewer pipes?


Divining could tell you where the sewers are, and help you avoid them.
Your local water company responsible for drainage in your area should
be able to help. They might even locate them for you, probably free
of charge, in order to avoid any disruption to their pipes.

Alternatively, try a divining course yourself. There are courses all
over the UK:

http://tinyurl.com/66uf8j

I am very sceptical by nature and thought divining was a load of bull
until someone taught me how to do it. After about half an hour I
could locate all kinds of underground services. I could not believe
how easy it was, and so far, it also seems to be quite reliable.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bruce wrote:


Divining could tell you where the sewers are, and help you avoid them.
Your local water company responsible for drainage in your area should
be able to help. They might even locate them for you, probably free
of charge, in order to avoid any disruption to their pipes.

That's *not* how they think! When I built my new garage over sewers, I had
to have a CCTV survey done at *my* expense before being given provisional
permission by Severn Trent - then another one after the event, to prove that
no damage had been done, before they would ratify the permission.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:


Oh, BTW the metpost in question is actually blunt ended. You dig a
450mm cube, drop a load of cement/ballast in and fix the fitting in
that. Never used them though, so I'm not sure if they're any good.
Although I find metposts in general ugly, I like the idea of easy post
replacement. I think I'll use the spike ones for the timber compost
bins.

If your old posts were concreted in, but have rotted - leaving concrete
sockets - I'm pretty sure you can get Metposts designed to go into the holes
in the concrete. That should avoid any danger of causing damage to sewers.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Jun 10, 2:00 pm, "Roger Mills" wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Bruce wrote:

Divining could tell you where the sewers are, and help you avoid them.
Your local water company responsible for drainage in your area should
be able to help. They might even locate them for you, probably free
of charge, in order to avoid any disruption to their pipes.

That's *not* how they think! When I built my new garage over sewers, I had
to have a CCTV survey done at *my* expense before being given provisional
permission by Severn Trent - then another one after the event, to prove that
no damage had been done, before they would ratify the permission.

Ah, but with a garage they have the option to deny permission so they
can pass the cost to you. With a fence they don't have that option
(although they may still say - "you break it, you pay to fix it").

Martin Bonner wrote:

On Jun 10, 2:00 pm, "Roger Mills" wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Bruce wrote:

Divining could tell you where the sewers are, and help you avoid them.
Your local water company responsible for drainage in your area should
be able to help. They might even locate them for you, probably free
of charge, in order to avoid any disruption to their pipes.

That's *not* how they think! When I built my new garage over sewers, I had
to have a CCTV survey done at *my* expense before being given provisional
permission by Severn Trent - then another one after the event, to prove that
no damage had been done, before they would ratify the permission.

Ah, but with a garage they have the option to deny permission so they
can pass the cost to you. With a fence they don't have that option
(although they may still say - "you break it, you pay to fix it").


Roger has made a good point. It depends very much on the water
company. Some are very helpful, others are extremely unhelpful.

wrote:
On 9 Jun, 23:20, Andy Champ wrote:


A spade. They're pretty tough, you'd have to be really ham fisted to
break one by hand. A machine or a pickaxe would break one with no
problem (as my neighbour found out...)

I'd also suspect a metpost would puncture a plastic one quite
nicely, or crack a ceramic one.

Andy

Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of lifting a cover to determine depth,
although that might be a bit risky as the nearest cover is some
distance away in the road and the intervening ground is a variable-
gradient hill.

Nice to know I should be okay with hand tools. Hopefully the ground
is less impacted than on the other side of the property (clay newbuild
territory). There I needed a pickaxe to get down 2', which might be
the wrong tool with all those pipes around . I can see the worry
every time I hit a stone is going to slow this one down. Maybe I'll
leave the old posts in place until after I've got the new ones in,
just in case.



Go to Wickes & invest £30 ish in;

Post Hole Digger
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Builders-Too...er/invt/501584

1500mm demolitian crowbar.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Builders-Too...ar/invt/167422

The post hole digger is amazing, clean round hole 2' deep easy peasy.
Crowbar breaks up the earth & stones & can be used to remove half house
bricks etc.

Oh, BTW the metpost in question is actually blunt ended. You dig a
450mm cube, drop a load of cement/ballast in and fix the fitting in
that. Never used them though, so I'm not sure if they're any good.
Although I find metposts in general ugly, I like the idea of easy post
replacement. I think I'll use the spike ones for the timber compost
bins.

Funny enough I used two of those today for the first time, not on a fence,
but to hold 3 x 3 posts that support part of a deck. They seem very good,
but not sure I'd use them in a high wind area.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:


Oh, BTW the metpost in question is actually blunt ended. You dig a
450mm cube, drop a load of cement/ballast in and fix the fitting in
that. Never used them though, so I'm not sure if they're any good.
Although I find metposts in general ugly, I like the idea of easy
post replacement. I think I'll use the spike ones for the timber
compost bins.

If your old posts were concreted in, but have rotted - leaving
concrete sockets - I'm pretty sure you can get Metposts designed to
go into the holes in the concrete. That should avoid any danger of
causing damage to sewers.

Called a metal repair spike
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Post-Accesso...ng/invt/542505

Made in 3" & 4", but the 4" are a bugger to get hold of.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 10 Jun, 14:04, "Roger Mills" wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

If your old posts were concreted in, but have rotted - leaving concrete
sockets - I'm pretty sure you can get Metposts designed to go into the holes
in the concrete. That should avoid any danger of causing damage to sewers.

Thanks - I'll be using one of these on another (low wind) area of
fencing where one of the posts has rotted though but the rest are
solid.

Can't use them on the section I've been talking about as I'm having to
reposition the posts (even the intact ones) because I want the new
gate in the "right" place.

Thanks to everyone else for the tool and water co. advice.