Matty F wrote:
On Apr 26, 6:34 am, John Stumbles wrote:
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:18:05 +0100, Tim Downie wrote:
But for 6 months! At 2L per minute you'd have thought the flow noises
in the pipework/ballcock/torbeck valve would have alerted someone.

I like to think it would have alerted me, but to a person not
technologically attuned (possibly of the venusian rather than martian[1]
type) it might just become part of the background of living with technology.

How about the little wheels in the water meter whizzing around at high
speed even when all taps are supposed to be off? Would that alert
anyone?

Yes. One morning we had a phone call from Thames Water: "We were reading
your meter at 1:30 last night, and noticed it was slowly going round.
Did you know that something is using water overnight?"

Actually we did know (pinhole leak through the coil inside the HW
cylinder, causing a slow drip from the CH overflow) but top marks anyway
to TW.

Now about that bloody reservoir...


--
Ian White

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:17:04 -0700, Matty F wrote:

How about the little wheels in the water meter whizzing around at high
speed even when all taps are supposed to be off? Would that alert
anyone?

Yes. Anyone who had their head down the hole in the road the meter was
installed in.

Ours is at eye level in the pantry, it has a hinged flap which is often
closed - because I look at the dial more often than Spouse :-) - so isn't
always visible to the casual eye. However, the ticking noise which even I
can hear would alert anyone to a problem, I'd have thought. Unless water is
being used for washing the tick rate is very slow.

Mary

On Apr 26, 6:31 pm, Ian White wrote:
Matty F wrote:

How about the little wheels in the water meter whizzing around at high
speed even when all taps are supposed to be off? Would that alert
anyone?

Yes. One morning we had a phone call from Thames Water: "We were reading
your meter at 1:30 last night, and noticed it was slowly going round.
Did you know that something is using water overnight?"

Actually we did know (pinhole leak through the coil inside the HW
cylinder, causing a slow drip from the CH overflow) but top marks anyway
to TW.

My water company is the opposite - completely hopeless.
The little hands used to go around OK, but the numbers that registered
whole cubic metres didn't change at all. I thought I'd see how long
they would take to notice the zero reading. After about 6 readings 18
months later they noticed and replaced the meter, and added 20 cubic
metres to the final reading withot telling me.
After a few readings of the new meter they misread the reading so that
it looked like I'd used 1000 litres in 3 months. I got a phone call
from a suspicious guy wondering why the reading was so low. They
probably think I am sabotaging their meters, but I'm not, honest!

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:29:33 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

A LOT to do with dual flush actually.
Since small amounts of flush are quite hard to achieve with a siphon system.

Then presumably the siphon one may purchase at
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/44047/Plumbing/Toilet-Fittings/Toilet-Siphon-203mm-8
doesn't work. Experience says otherwise.

Experience says it does work, but that it's not dual flush (which TNP was
obviously referring to by "small amounts of flush").

To be precise they offer two sorts of flush. One is dual flush and
one is triple flush. Fitted to a six litre flush toilet that
presumably means the lowest flush is around three litres I guess,
perhaps less than 3 litres for the triple flush. Sounds like a small
amount of flush to me.

Won't work at all with cisterns designed for a top-mounted dual-flush push
button which most of the designs being complained about in this thread
have.

Tough that is nothing to do with whether a siphon mechanism will
work with small amounts of flush.

Plus it's so cranky-looking it wouldn't get past the door in most
SWMBO-dominated homes :-)

The leading lights of the Earthship are largely of the female
persuasion.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:30:27 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

THey
speculate that much of the device's savings was because users tended to
leave the flush volume control on the middle setting, in which case a
brick in the cistern would be just as effective.

Only until little bits of brick get into the mechanism. Plastic
bottles are better.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
....

Plus it's so cranky-looking it wouldn't get past the door in most
SWMBO-dominated homes :-)

Do you mean 'it' doesn't look like the old fashioned innefficient ones?

The leading lights of the Earthship are largely of the female
persuasion.

Nobody persuaded me to be female - I had no choice :-)

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
...
Plus it's so cranky-looking it wouldn't get past the door in most
SWMBO-dominated homes :-)

Do you mean 'it' doesn't look like the old fashioned innefficient ones?
The leading lights of the Earthship are largely of the female
persuasion.

Nobody persuaded me to be female - I had no choice :-)

Mary


They all say that.

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:40:51 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

Only until little bits of brick get into the mechanism. Plastic
bottles are better.

What mechanism? With a traditional syphon they'd just get flushed through.
Agreed you wouldn't want to do it with a drop or flap valve, and agreed a
plastic bottle would be better. I just used a brick as an example people
are perhaps more familiar with.

--
John Stumbles

Xenophobia? Sounds a bit foreign to me.

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:39:14 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:29:33 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

A LOT to do with dual flush actually.
Since small amounts of flush are quite hard to achieve with a siphon system.

Then presumably the siphon one may purchase at
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/44047/Plumbing/Toilet-Fittings/Toilet-Siphon-203mm-8
doesn't work. Experience says otherwise.

Experience says it does work, but that it's not dual flush (which TNP was
obviously referring to by "small amounts of flush").

To be precise they offer two sorts of flush. One is dual flush and
one is triple flush.

Maybe we're talking at cross-purposes here.

You (David Hansen) posted a link to a Screwfix cistern flush valve (syphon
type). Screwfix's description is "Replacement toilet siphon with adjustable
flush volume (6, 7 and 9 litre) ..."

I pointed out that it's not a dual-flush syphon. I know, I've fitted them.
The "adjustable flush volume" they mention is acheived by removing plugs
in the plastic bell moulding and is done on installation, to suit the
flush volume to the type of WC so that the valve can be used with older
9-litre flush pans and newer 7 and 6-litre flush pans. Once you've done
this you get the same flush volume each time.

They do /not/ offer "two sorts of flush ... dual flush and ... triple
flush", (whatever that means).


--
John Stumbles

What is a simile like?

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:17:05 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

What mechanism? With a traditional syphon they'd just get flushed through.
Agreed you wouldn't want to do it with a drop or flap valve, and agreed a
plastic bottle would be better.

Bricks slowly break up, allowing little bits of brick to grind their
way into the moving and non-moving bits. While there are bricks and
bricks, the sort of brick people will have lying in their garden is
unlikely to be particularly hard.

I just used a brick as an example people
are perhaps more familiar with.

It is best to dissuade people from damaging their toilets with this
unsound idea. They should either use a purpose made item like the
Hippo http://www.hippo-the-watersaver.co.uk or plastic bottles,
though they should note the restriction on the Hippo web site
regarding cistern size.

Even better the aforementioned Variflush where I don't see a
restriction on the size of cistern it can be fitted to.
http://www.peterton.co.uk/index.html


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:25:16 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

Maybe we're talking at cross-purposes here.

I'm not. With the links I have posted I have demonstrated that
siphon mechanisms can be used for small amounts of flush. It should
be fairly clear that something like a three litre flush is no great
problem with a siphon.

The assertion I was responding to was that, "small amounts of flush
are quite hard to achieve with a siphon system."




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 2008-04-27 15:42:56 +0100, David Hansen
said:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:17:05 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

What mechanism? With a traditional syphon they'd just get flushed through.
Agreed you wouldn't want to do it with a drop or flap valve, and agreed a
plastic bottle would be better.

Bricks slowly break up, allowing little bits of brick to grind their
way into the moving and non-moving bits. While there are bricks and
bricks, the sort of brick people will have lying in their garden is
unlikely to be particularly hard.

I just used a brick as an example people
are perhaps more familiar with.

It is best to dissuade people from damaging their toilets with this
unsound idea. They should either use a purpose made item like the
Hippo http://www.hippo-the-watersaver.co.uk or plastic bottles,
though they should note the restriction on the Hippo web site
regarding cistern size.

Even better the aforementioned Variflush where I don't see a
restriction on the size of cistern it can be fitted to.
http://www.peterton.co.uk/index.html

Even better still, don't do either because it isn't necessary or even
desirable.

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:17:05 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

What mechanism? With a traditional syphon they'd just get flushed through.
Agreed you wouldn't want to do it with a drop or flap valve, and agreed a
plastic bottle would be better.

Bricks slowly break up, allowing little bits of brick to grind their
way into the moving and non-moving bits. While there are bricks and
bricks, the sort of brick people will have lying in their garden is
unlikely to be particularly hard.

You put the brick in a plastic bag.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-27 15:42:56 +0100, David Hansen
said:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:17:05 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

What mechanism? With a traditional syphon they'd just get flushed
through. Agreed you wouldn't want to do it with a drop or flap
valve, and agreed a plastic bottle would be better.

Bricks slowly break up, allowing little bits of brick to grind their
way into the moving and non-moving bits. While there are bricks and
bricks, the sort of brick people will have lying in their garden is
unlikely to be particularly hard.

I just used a brick as an example people
are perhaps more familiar with.

It is best to dissuade people from damaging their toilets with this
unsound idea. They should either use a purpose made item like the
Hippo http://www.hippo-the-watersaver.co.uk or plastic bottles,
though they should note the restriction on the Hippo web site
regarding cistern size.

Even better the aforementioned Variflush where I don't see a
restriction on the size of cistern it can be fitted to.
http://www.peterton.co.uk/index.html

Even better still, don't do either because it isn't necessary or even
desirable.

Quite right. We are an island. We are surrounded by water. Poo needs to
be flushed away.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 2008-04-27 18:52:20 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:



Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-27 15:42:56 +0100, David Hansen
said:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:17:05 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

What mechanism? With a traditional syphon they'd just get flushed
through. Agreed you wouldn't want to do it with a drop or flap
valve, and agreed a plastic bottle would be better.

Bricks slowly break up, allowing little bits of brick to grind their
way into the moving and non-moving bits. While there are bricks and
bricks, the sort of brick people will have lying in their garden is
unlikely to be particularly hard.

I just used a brick as an example people
are perhaps more familiar with.

It is best to dissuade people from damaging their toilets with this
unsound idea. They should either use a purpose made item like the
Hippo http://www.hippo-the-watersaver.co.uk or plastic bottles,
though they should note the restriction on the Hippo web site
regarding cistern size.

Even better the aforementioned Variflush where I don't see a
restriction on the size of cistern it can be fitted to.
http://www.peterton.co.uk/index.html

Even better still, don't do either because it isn't necessary or even
desirable.

Quite right. We are an island. We are surrounded by water. Poo needs to
be flushed away.

Exactly.

I wonder what triple flush implies. I can understand the (somewhat
misguided) attempt to have different flush volumes for No. 1 and No. 2,
although having the button labeled for each would be useful.
However, I wonder what No. 3 is. Perhaps it's a specially quiet
version for cases of extreme hangover and the need to say hello to
Hughie on the porcelain telephone.

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:52:20 GMT someone who may be "The Medway
Handyman" wrote this:-

Quite right. We are an island. We are surrounded by water. Poo needs to
be flushed away.

That is what was thought in Victorian times. They tried it out with
the sewerage system in London. It didn't work and had to introduce
sewage treatment works into the system.

The dilution theory is now discredited in just about every field.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:52:20 GMT someone who may be "The Medway
Handyman" wrote this:-

Quite right. We are an island. We are surrounded by water. Poo
needs to be flushed away.

That is what was thought in Victorian times. They tried it out with
the sewerage system in London. It didn't work and had to introduce
sewage treatment works into the system.

The dilution theory is now discredited in just about every field.

Flushed away as in flushed away from the WC pan, not talking about sewage
systems.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

You (David Hansen) posted a link to a Screwfix cistern flush valve (syphon
type). Screwfix's description is "Replacement toilet siphon with
adjustable
flush volume (6, 7 and 9 litre) ..."

I pointed out that it's not a dual-flush syphon. I know, I've fitted them.
The "adjustable flush volume" they mention is acheived by removing plugs
in the plastic bell moulding and is done on installation, to suit the
flush volume to the type of WC so that the valve can be used with older
9-litre flush pans and newer 7 and 6-litre flush pans. Once you've done
this you get the same flush volume each time.

They do /not/ offer "two sorts of flush ... dual flush and ... triple
flush", (whatever that means).


--
John Stumbles



My "Allia" siphon had a plug that I removed to make it dual flush.

The hole creates a siphon break by allowing air to enter after a few litres
have passed - unless you hold the handle down so that a piston covers the
hole - in this case it gives a full flush

On Apr 25, 3:49*pm, David Hansen
wrote:
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:26:46 +0100 someone who may be Mike Barnes
wrote this:-

Anyone who doesn't take an interest in their surroundings is asking for
precisely the sort of trouble we're talking about. I suspect that they
wouldn't notice water coming out of an external overflow pipe either.

I think it far more likely that someone will notice water flowing
out of an external pipe than flowing into the bowl. However, there
are people who will do nothing about it no matter how obvious an
overflow is.

--
* David Hansen, Edinburgh
*I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
*http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Install the outlet above the back door

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:05:23 -0700, cynic wrote:

Install the outlet above the back door

Bit difficult if the loo's at the side of the house.

--
John Stumbles

Who's *really* behind all these conspiracy theories?

Interesting (if you're a connoiseur of fine bog flushing) Canadian FAQ
sheet about this here;

http://www.niagaraflapperless.ca/leakage.htm

The message

from Onetap contains these words:

http://www.niagaraflapperless.ca/leakage.htm

Anything would be an improvement on a standard Canadian/American flapper
valve :-)

On 12 May, 20:22, Appin wrote:

Anything would be an improvement on a standard Canadian/American flapper
valve :-)

You'd think that, but have you seen how the flapperless toilet works?
A rotating trough?
Thomas Crapper deceased is rotating at high revs.