Having undercoated a couple of doors I have realised just how much the
others, finished in Dulux Trade Satinwood, have yellowed in the 2-3
years since doing them. Since I am coming to like the water-based
undercoat that I am using I was wondering if anyone had any experience
of water-based non-gloss top-coats. I have found Dulux Trade Diamond
Satinwood but feel sure that there must be others around.

Any recommendations or gotchas appreciated.

Andrew

Andrew wrote:
Having undercoated a couple of doors I have realised just how much the
others, finished in Dulux Trade Satinwood, have yellowed in the 2-3
years since doing them. Since I am coming to like the water-based
undercoat that I am using I was wondering if anyone had any experience
of water-based non-gloss top-coats. I have found Dulux Trade Diamond
Satinwood but feel sure that there must be others around.

Any recommendations or gotchas appreciated.

Andrew

One obvious gotcha is that water based paints have little resistance to
mechanical wear and tear

Stuart Noble wrote:

One obvious gotcha is that water based paints have little resistance to
mechanical wear and tear

I'm not one to believe all the advertising hype but the product
datasheet does say '...10 times the durability of many solvent-based
satin finishes' so it can't be that bad. Besides there are no children
in the house most of the time so it is not going to get that much of a
thrashing anyway.

Andrew

Andrew wrote:
Having undercoated a couple of doors I have realised just how much the
others, finished in Dulux Trade Satinwood, have yellowed in the 2-3
years since doing them. Since I am coming to like the water-based
undercoat that I am using I was wondering if anyone had any experience
of water-based non-gloss top-coats. I have found Dulux Trade Diamond
Satinwood but feel sure that there must be others around.

Any recommendations or gotchas appreciated.

Andrew

I reverted to oil-based a year or so ago because the water-based paints
seem to mark/fade/discolour too quickly/easily.

Dave

"Andrew" wrote


I'm not one to believe all the advertising hype but the product
datasheet does say '...10 times the durability of many solvent-based
satin finishes' so it can't be that bad. Besides there are no children
in the house most of the time so it is not going to get that much of a
thrashing anyway.

Andrew

Given the lack of aggro you intend to give it, I'd say try it.
I've used Dulux quick dry Satinwood in a few rooms and find it OK.
If you're a perfectionist who likes a mirror gloss finish, on the other
hand, don't touch it.
However careful you are, brush strokes will always be visible.

Phil

NoSpam wrote:

I reverted to oil-based a year or so ago because the water-based paints
seem to mark/fade/discolour too quickly/easily.


My experience also. They look fine when first applied, but they
quickly begin to look tatty.

Andrew wrote:
Having undercoated a couple of doors I have realised just how much the
others, finished in Dulux Trade Satinwood, have yellowed in the 2-3
years since doing them. Since I am coming to like the water-based
undercoat that I am using I was wondering if anyone had any experience
of water-based non-gloss top-coats. I have found Dulux Trade Diamond
Satinwood but feel sure that there must be others around.

Any recommendations or gotchas appreciated.


Not quite a recommendation - more a suggestion. I assume you are talking
about interior doors?

We were disatisfied with the general paint work in the house -
especially on flush doors. So I sanded them down thoroughly (almost
bare), then applied emulsion paint in the desired colour. Put a few
coats on (maybe 3 - can't remember) with a roller. Finally, applied some
water-based varnish, again with a roller. Pleasant (to my eyes), very
slight orange-peel effect. Very satisfactory.

Some other areas were painted by brush - but wherever possible we used a
roller for the varnish coat.

The choice of varnish/lacquer is critical. We bought some from Screwfix
but they no longer stock it. It was described as being suitable for
floors. It *might* be the same as their No Nonsense stuff - Quote No:
10708 - but ours came in a plastic container more like a plastic milk
container.

When we had done this in other areas, the varnish always seemed a touch
soft even years after being applied. But this stuff was excellent and
much of it has been washed many times with virtually no signs of wear.
Effectively no colour change despite some smoking when first applied.
The varnish might very slightly affect the colour of the emulsion. Test
before committing!

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"TheScullster" wrote:

Given the lack of aggro you intend to give it, I'd say try it.
I've used Dulux quick dry Satinwood in a few rooms and find it OK.
If you're a perfectionist who likes a mirror gloss finish, on the other
hand, don't touch it.
However careful you are, brush strokes will always be visible.


A small amount of water added will help greatly with the brushmarks.
No more than an eggcup full per 750 ml tin.

Rod wrote:
snip
The choice of varnish/lacquer is critical. We bought some from Screwfix
but they no longer stock it. It was described as being suitable for
floors. It *might* be the same as their No Nonsense stuff - Quote No:
10708 -

Ooops - Quote No: 81461.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Stuart Noble wrote:

Andrew wrote:
Having undercoated a couple of doors I have realised just how much the
others, finished in Dulux Trade Satinwood, have yellowed in the 2-3
years since doing them. Since I am coming to like the water-based
undercoat that I am using I was wondering if anyone had any experience
of water-based non-gloss top-coats. I have found Dulux Trade Diamond
Satinwood but feel sure that there must be others around.

Any recommendations or gotchas appreciated.

One obvious gotcha is that water based paints have little resistance to
mechanical wear and tear

Hmm, the doors in this house are finished in a water-based paint which
was then covered with a water-based transparent glaze. No problems so
far and the last time they were painted was eight years ago.

The colour seems much more stable than the oil-based paints we have used
in the past.

"The choice of varnish/lacquer is critical"

I'll second that!

So many varnishes seem to stay tacky for ever and just act as dust magnets.
Then when you finally have had enough and want to redo, they prove almost
impossible to sand down or remove any other way!

The 'Diamond hard' varieties look terribly expensive, but varnish does go a
long way, and when you come to sand it for a freshen up in the future, you
will be very glad it is not tacky. (Never occurred to me to try putting it
on with a roller though: does it really stop the runs that are so difficult
to avoid with varnish?)

S

spamlet wrote:
"The choice of varnish/lacquer is critical"

I'll second that!

So many varnishes seem to stay tacky for ever and just act as dust magnets.
Then when you finally have had enough and want to redo, they prove almost
impossible to sand down or remove any other way!

The 'Diamond hard' varieties look terribly expensive, but varnish does go a
long way, and when you come to sand it for a freshen up in the future, you
will be very glad it is not tacky. (Never occurred to me to try putting it
on with a roller though: does it really stop the runs that are so difficult
to avoid with varnish?)


In my experience - yes, it does prevent the runs. (Of the varnish
sort!!!) I do put on a very thin coat - and maybe a second or even a
third if I am not happy.

The last major job - all the doors - I took the doors off and processed
them one after another in the garden - horizontally. Now that really
does prevent runs almost however you put the varnish on. :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Steve Firth wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:

Andrew wrote:
Having undercoated a couple of doors I have realised just how much the
others, finished in Dulux Trade Satinwood, have yellowed in the 2-3
years since doing them. Since I am coming to like the water-based
undercoat that I am using I was wondering if anyone had any experience
of water-based non-gloss top-coats. I have found Dulux Trade Diamond
Satinwood but feel sure that there must be others around.

Any recommendations or gotchas appreciated.
One obvious gotcha is that water based paints have little resistance to
mechanical wear and tear

Hmm, the doors in this house are finished in a water-based paint which
was then covered with a water-based transparent glaze. No problems so
far and the last time they were painted was eight years ago.

The colour seems much more stable than the oil-based paints we have used
in the past.

Colour stability is the main advantage of acrylics. The disadvantages
have always been the limited range of colours and the softness of the
film. There are extremely tough acrylics but AFAIK they don't lend
themselves to brush-on paint formulations.

"Rod" wrote in message
...

In my experience - yes, it does prevent the runs. (Of the varnish sort!!!)
I do put on a very thin coat - and maybe a second or even a third if I am
not happy.

Hmm, must give it a try - though how you then clean the thing...
My current technique is to paint stripes down the wood and then join them up
by painting them across without dipping the brush (this is how I observed
the pros doing amazingly shiny finishes on old motorcycle petrol tanks), but
I still get the odd nib.

The last major job - all the doors - I took the doors off and processed
them one after another in the garden - horizontally. Now that really does
prevent runs almost however you put the varnish on. :-)

Yup: been there, done that.
Additionally, change all doors hinges to rising butts for easy removal and
laying down of doors.
You get a lovely mirror finish if you've been good with the sanding...
....And some curious sideways runs across the edges to amuse house guests,
once you've put them back!

Hmm, 'polygonum': do I detect a dock enthusiast, or is this from the many
angled approach necessary for the determined DIYer ? :-)

S

spamlet wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
In my experience - yes, it does prevent the runs. (Of the varnish sort!!!)
I do put on a very thin coat - and maybe a second or even a third if I am
not happy.

Hmm, must give it a try - though how you then clean the thing...
My current technique is to paint stripes down the wood and then join them up
by painting them across without dipping the brush (this is how I observed
the pros doing amazingly shiny finishes on old motorcycle petrol tanks), but
I still get the odd nib.
The last major job - all the doors - I took the doors off and processed
them one after another in the garden - horizontally. Now that really does
prevent runs almost however you put the varnish on. :-)

Yup: been there, done that.
Additionally, change all doors hinges to rising butts for easy removal and
laying down of doors.
You get a lovely mirror finish if you've been good with the sanding...
....And some curious sideways runs across the edges to amuse house guests,
once you've put them back!

Hmm, 'polygonum': do I detect a dock enthusiast, or is this from the many
angled approach necessary for the determined DIYer ? :-)

The thing is, with a roller and the lacquer/varnish I used, you can do
the whole door in very little time - rolling back and forth as you go -
until you are happy. Not high gloss though.

Rising butts are not much good if you like living in a house with most
of the (internal) doors open most of the time!

How about smartweed? :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Rod" wrote in message
...
spamlet wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
In my experience - yes, it does prevent the runs. (Of the varnish
sort!!!) I do put on a very thin coat - and maybe a second or even a
third if I am not happy.

Hmm, must give it a try - though how you then clean the thing...
My current technique is to paint stripes down the wood and then join them
up by painting them across without dipping the brush (this is how I
observed the pros doing amazingly shiny finishes on old motorcycle petrol
tanks), but I still get the odd nib.
The last major job - all the doors - I took the doors off and processed
them one after another in the garden - horizontally. Now that really
does prevent runs almost however you put the varnish on. :-)

Yup: been there, done that.
Additionally, change all doors hinges to rising butts for easy removal
and laying down of doors.
You get a lovely mirror finish if you've been good with the sanding...
....And some curious sideways runs across the edges to amuse house
guests, once you've put them back!

Hmm, 'polygonum': do I detect a dock enthusiast, or is this from the
many angled approach necessary for the determined DIYer ? :-)

The thing is, with a roller and the lacquer/varnish I used, you can do the
whole door in very little time - rolling back and forth as you go - until
you are happy. Not high gloss though.

Rising butts are not much good if you like living in a house with most of
the (internal) doors open most of the time!

I have a tendency to accumulate geological specimens which come in handy...
It's also nice to have doors that lift off the carpet as they open too.

How about smartweed? :-)

--
Or 'Arsemart' (quite useful in these forums - if it gets past the
moderators!) :-)

Hadn't heard it called Smartweed - though the gradual burn on the tongue
certainly can - before, but the good Mrs Grieve has a couple of pages under
that name: I'll have to give it a try next time I have a toothache, or
fleas - mind you, probably just gives one a bigger pain to think about!

Happy season's botanising - the orchids are upon us already!

S