The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...ersion-Spanner

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Rich.

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:20:43 +0100, Richard Skeen wrote:


Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?

Plusgas is better but I can't imagine it will have any effect on the internal
scale.

Andy

On 4 Apr, 12:20, Richard Skeen wrote:
The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...nches/Box-Imme...

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

Hi Rich,

As you're aware, you do have to be careful not to apply so much force
that you distort the cylinder. The last time I had to do this I did it
by greatly increasing the leverage on the spanner using a scaffold
pole over its handle and applying gentle and steady force. It took two
people, one to hold one end of the pole over the spanner handle and
the other at the other end applying force.

Cheers!

Martin

"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
...
On 4 Apr, 12:20, Richard Skeen wrote:
The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by
hand:http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...nches/Box-Imme...

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

Hi Rich,

As you're aware, you do have to be careful not to apply so much force
that you distort the cylinder. The last time I had to do this I did it
by greatly increasing the leverage on the spanner using a scaffold
pole over its handle and applying gentle and steady force. It took two
people, one to hold one end of the pole over the spanner handle and
the other at the other end applying force.

Cheers!

Martin

Crickey! You could tear the copper. Keep going with the Plus Gas. Good Luck

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:20:43 +0100 someone who may be Richard Skeen
wrote this:-


The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

What you seek may not be possible. I would locate a suitable rapidly
deliverable replacement before trying too hard, in case the cylinder
dies during the operation.

Whether you manage to get the old one out or not it would probably
be a good idea to practice some preventative maintenance in future,
by slackening off the heater every year or so. Obviously lower the
water level first.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

The message
from Richard Skeen contains these words:


The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...ersion-Spanner

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

You haven't given the model number or the location of the immersion
heater boss.

However, it frequently happens in hard water areas that the immersion
heater gets set in so solid there's no way you're going to get it out.

Usual answer is to fit a mechanical flange in a fresh hole cut for the
purpose. Dependss how congested the tank is -- you may be able to
leave the existing immersion heater untouched. You may be able to bend
it out of the road.

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:20:43 +0100, Richard Skeen wrote:


The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...ersion-Spanner

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Rich.

==================================
Borrow or hire a large pair of stilsons. Grip the flange with the stilsons
and apply *gentle* anti-clockwise pressure and whilst maintaining the
pressure tap the end of the stilsons with a lump hammer - light taps only.

If you can apply heat whilst doing the above it might help.

Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:20:43 +0100, Richard Skeen wrote:

The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

Just keep tapping away at the end of the spanner with a hammer until it
frees up enough to turn by hand. Don't wack it and ferf*cksake don't lever
on it (groan too late).

--
John Stumbles

Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus
and Pop Psychologists are from Uranus

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:20:43 +0100, Richard Skeen wrote:

So far I've tried:

Have you also tried tightening it? Couple of knocks one way, couple the
other. A decent squirt of plusgas and left overnight may help.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

I'll get some Plusgas tomorrow (I've only got WD-40 to hand) and cover
it in that , hopefully it might soak through the fibre washer and into
the threads. Then a combination of steady force while tapping the end of
the spanner with a hammer.

If it still won't shift, the idea of cutting a new hole and fitting a
new flange sounds like it could have potential. I couldn't find anywhere
selling a 120/40 litre (1200x450mm) combination cylinder for much below
400 UKP.

Replacing the current combination cylinder + shower pump for a thermal
store (DPS Pandora, Gledhill Pulsacoil, etc) might be nice, but the
price seems a bit high, not much change from 1000 UKP I think?

I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers,
Rich.

"Richard Skeen" wrote in message
...

The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...ersion-Spanner

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Rich.

If it's stuck that tight it probably won't budge. Penetrating oil is
unlikely to have any effect on limescale even if it could find a route past
the gasket and through into the threads. Draining the tank and applying
copious heat is a possibility. Copper has a high rate of expansion so if you
heat around the outside of the boss and try unscrewing it while the
immersion is still colder there might be some effect. In extremis you can
drill and grind the thing away bit by bit with a dremel or high speed drill
and a carbide burr but it wouldn't be a very pleasant job and getting the
last bits picked out of the thread still wouldn't be easy. You might at
least be able to make some entry holes for penetrating oil or in fact
limescale remover which might be a better idea.
--
Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:20:43 +0100 someone who may be Richard Skeen
wrote this:-


The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

What you seek may not be possible. I would locate a suitable rapidly
deliverable replacement before trying too hard, in case the cylinder
dies during the operation.

Whether you manage to get the old one out or not it would probably
be a good idea to practice some preventative maintenance in future,
by slackening off the heater every year or so. Obviously lower the
water level first.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Apply Copaslip to threads when fitting them (Hindsight solution) and to taps
and almost everything.

Richard Skeen wrote on 04/04/2008 :
The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...ersion-Spanner

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

Last resorts....

Angle grinder, to cut the top off then you might find it is free - if
not it should allow you to then get some Plusgas to soak down the
threads.

If that still doesn't help, cut around the copper to remove the boss +
element and buy a replacement boss to solder in.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:20:43 +0100, Richard Skeen wrote:

The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...-Wrenches/Box-
Immersion-Spanner

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Rich.

1) Square up to the fact that you may lose the cylinder, I haven't as yet
but there is always a first time, which it sounds like you may have
already experienced. I've done about 10.

2) Try sharp knocks with the cylinder under full normal pressure, if you
get lucky and it starts to turn then obviously you carry on without the
water 8-)

3) If the heater is a top unit then you can drain the cylinder to below
the top of the heater and apply a load of heat to the middle of the
heater (the heater is finished right?) This may loosen the thread
sealant so you can use a spanner.

4) If the heater is a lower unit you probably can't get the water out to
do (3), unless you take the cylinder right out and put it on it's side.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Richard Skeen" wrote in message
...

The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...ersion-Spanner

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Rich.

Faced with this problem once.
Drilled an arc of holes round the inside of the element against the inner
edge of the "nut" and towards the centre of the element and removed a
"triangular" section. Then with padsaw cut through the element "nut" to
remove an arc ( brass body so a little persuasion with a small chisel
cracked it out). Drilled a second line of holes opposite the removed
section and cut through the "nut". A few taps with a hammer on the
remaining flats and the element was little more than finger tight. Ignored
any issue (if there is one) with swarf dropping into the tank
Of course I didn't have a Fein Multimaster then !!

PeterK

"Richard Skeen" wrote in message
...

The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...ersion-Spanner

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Rich.

Richard,
I had one stuck so bad once I bent the wrench trying to undo it. I found
that by using a 3mm terminal screwdriver as a chissel into the side of the
fibre washer, the washer could be levered out quite easily. Once the washer
was out the immersion heater unscrewed easily.
Good luck,
Tony.

"Richard Skeen" wrote in message
...

The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...ersion-Spanner

So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength...

If you have bent the cylinder, you ought to give up now and buy a new one.
The distortion is a potentially weak point that could fail without warning.
No doubt someone will have a story of having had a distorted cylinder for
centuries, but the risk is still there. Aside from being the safest
solution, it will be easier than trying to get the heater out and you will
almost certainly end up with one that is better insulated.

Colin Bignell

nightjar cpb@ wrote:

If you have bent the cylinder, you ought to give up now and buy a new one.
The distortion is a potentially weak point that could fail without warning.
No doubt someone will have a story of having had a distorted cylinder for
centuries, but the risk is still there. Aside from being the safest
solution, it will be easier than trying to get the heater out and you will
almost certainly end up with one that is better insulated.

Yes, it's bent a little round the immersion boss, so I should probably
look at replacing it, especially since it's over 10 years old and very
likely full of limescale. I've already bought the replacement immersion
so if I can get the old one out there's less hurry to shop around for a
cylinder.

I wonder how much scrap value I'll get for the old one, it's this sort
of thing:
http://www.uk-plumbing.com/albion-di...mm-p-1517.html

Good point about the insulation. This one has moulded-on foam which
appears to be about 1.5" thick, but I can believe a newer cylinder may
be better.

Thanks,
Rich.

On 5 Apr, 13:07, Richard Skeen wrote:
look at replacing it, especially since it's over 10 years old and very
I wonder how much scrap value I'll get for the old one, it's this sort
of thing:http://www.uk-plumbing.com/albion-di...t-water-cylind...


I got £10 from a scrap metal merchant for miy old cylinder last
summer.

CRB

Richard Skeen wrote:

The element has failed in one of the two immersion heaters on my hot
water cylinder. The problem is, I'm having real difficulty removing it
so I can fit a replacement.

I bought this spanner, but can't unscrew the immersion by hand:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/29549/...ersion-Spanner


So far I've tried: standing on one end of the tommy bar, levering up the
other end against the floor with a car jack, and hitting it with a 4lb
club hammer, although admittedly not all at the same time. All I've
achieved is bending the cylinder at the immersion heater boss, even
though I kept it full of water for strength.

Does anyone have any tips? The cylinder is probably about 12 years old
and this is a hard water area, so I imagine it's scaled up on the
inside. Any point in trying to soak penetrating oil into it overnight?
As it's a combination (fortic) type cylinder, it wouldn't be cheap to
replace.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Rich.



Hi, I have come across "stuck" immersion heaters many times - I
generally use 36" stilsons on a box spanner for the awkward ones, though
that is not always successful, as my courage usually fails as the tank
begins to bend. **

What I generally do then, though it takes a little time and is not
particularly easy, is to use a hacksaw blade to cut out the fibre
washer, after which the heater usually comes out easily. It is I believe
usually where "boss white" or similar has been applied to the heater -
against the advice of the manufacturers - that a lot of the problems occur.

**I have on a couple of occasions repaired resultant weeps by the
application of solder, saving clients a considerable sum of money...

--

Will.

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:44:25 +0100 someone who may be Richard Skeen
wrote this:-

Replacing the current combination cylinder + shower pump for a thermal
store (DPS Pandora, Gledhill Pulsacoil, etc) might be nice, but the
price seems a bit high, not much change from 1000 UKP I think?

In a hard water area one with external plate heat exchangers (often
called a heat bank rather then a thermal store) is advisable. That
pushes up the cost, but does mean that the store itself does not get
scaled up and the heat exchangers can be cleaned/replaced.

In a soft water area Navitron do basic thermal stores for less than
half your quote.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Will wrote:

Hi, I have come across "stuck" immersion heaters many times - I
generally use 36" stilsons on a box spanner for the awkward ones, though
that is not always successful, as my courage usually fails as the tank
begins to bend. **

**I have on a couple of occasions repaired resultant weeps by the
application of solder, saving clients a considerable sum of money...

Unfortunately I've reached the point of the tank starting to bend.
Plusgas (well, different brand but still penetrating/dismantling spray)
didn't help. The bend in the tank has now developed into a slight weep
after my latest attempts too.

What I generally do then, though it takes a little time and is not
particularly easy, is to use a hacksaw blade to cut out the fibre
washer, after which the heater usually comes out easily. It is I believe
usually where "boss white" or similar has been applied to the heater -
against the advice of the manufacturers - that a lot of the problems occur.

Good suggestion. I wish I'd tried that before I bent the tank. I'm
tempted to use Copaslip on the threads of the replacement although I
supposed PTFE tape might help with future dismantling.

Rich.