Looking to fit a couple of wall-mounted uplighters for a friend. They're
lights that he bought with him from a previous property (I believe they
were originally a gift, so he wanted to keep them).

Unfortunately, when he disconnected them he didn't really take a
detailed note of how they were attached or mounted ("I think there was a
white thing that the wires were screwed into"). What he now has is a
metal plate (about 6" or 7" long, with screw-holes in it), a
perpendicular bracket welded to that and the lamp-holder attached to the
end of the bracket (a decorative, glass, semi-circular uplighter slots
onto the bracket once it's all connected and mounted). The plate is
designed to be horizontally attached to the wall.

However, the mains wires just dangle down from the lamp-holder with no
kind of junction box, connectors or any way to conceal them other than
the decorative uplighter.

Every light I've ever fitted (not many, but certainly a couple of dozen)
has always had some kind of concealed junction box area (usually with
terminal blocks in it).

I'm assuming that he's actually left a critical component at his old
house. Any ideas as to how to get it sorted?

Cheers,

Styx

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:29:12 +0100 someone who may be Styx
wrote this:-

Unfortunately, when he disconnected them he didn't really take a
detailed note of how they were attached or mounted ("I think there was a
white thing that the wires were screwed into"). What he now has is a
metal plate (about 6" or 7" long, with screw-holes in it), a
perpendicular bracket welded to that and the lamp-holder attached to the
end of the bracket (a decorative, glass, semi-circular uplighter slots
onto the bracket once it's all connected and mounted).

So far so good.

The plate is designed to be horizontally attached to the wall.

I don't follow. Plates are normally screwed to something, if this
something is a wall then the plate will generally be vertical.

I'm assuming that he's actually left a critical component at his old
house. Any ideas as to how to get it sorted?

There should be a box in the wall to terminate the fixed wiring and
provide somewhere to attach the wiring from the luminaire.
http://www.screwfix.co.uk/cats/A331913/Electrical/Switches-Sockets/Mounting-Boxes
shows some. Would the plate screw onto one of these?

With a metal plate make sure the earthing is up to scratch.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:29:12 +0100 someone who may be Styx
wrote this:-

Unfortunately, when he disconnected them he didn't really take a
detailed note of how they were attached or mounted ("I think there was a
white thing that the wires were screwed into"). What he now has is a
metal plate (about 6" or 7" long, with screw-holes in it), a
perpendicular bracket welded to that and the lamp-holder attached to the
end of the bracket (a decorative, glass, semi-circular uplighter slots
onto the bracket once it's all connected and mounted).

So far so good.

The plate is designed to be horizontally attached to the wall.

I don't follow. Plates are normally screwed to something, if this
something is a wall then the plate will generally be vertical.

Well, the plate is *definitely* designed to be horizontally mounted (as
the glass doohickey attaches to it and could only go one way, and the
lamp holder also determines the orientation).

As to whether the plate is actually designed to be screwed directly to
the wall or some (now missing) part of the fixture -- well, that's a
good question. It certainly looks like it *could* be screwed to the wall
(there are appropriate screw-holes for that), but perhaps it is actually
supposed to be screwed to a missing part. The plate is about 6-7" long
by around 1.5" high.



I'm assuming that he's actually left a critical component at his old
house. Any ideas as to how to get it sorted?

There should be a box in the wall to terminate the fixed wiring and
provide somewhere to attach the wiring from the luminaire.
http://www.screwfix.co.uk/cats/A331913/Electrical/Switches-Sockets/Mounting-Boxes
shows some. Would the plate screw onto one of these?

With a metal plate make sure the earthing is up to scratch.


There's no box in the wall -- just a hole with the T&E sticking out,
ready for a fixture.

I'm wondering if I can get away with wall-mounting it and using
something like this

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BG458.html

screwed to the wall to make the connection -- it might even be possible
to hide it within the glass uplighter area...

Any further thoughts?

Styx

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:36:17 +0100 someone who may be Styx
wrote this:-

Well, the plate is *definitely* designed to be horizontally mounted (as
the glass doohickey attaches to it and could only go one way, and the
lamp holder also determines the orientation).

As to whether the plate is actually designed to be screwed directly to
the wall or some (now missing) part of the fixture -- well, that's a
good question.

I'm not sure how a (flat) plate could be screwed to a wall
horizontally. There is presumably some sort of bracket to which it
fastens, or the plate is L-shaped and that screws to the wall.

It certainly looks like it *could* be screwed to the wall
(there are appropriate screw-holes for that), but perhaps it is actually
supposed to be screwed to a missing part. The plate is about 6-7" long
by around 1.5" high.

I can't envisage a (flat) plate of those dimensions.

There's no box in the wall -- just a hole with the T&E sticking out,

There should be a box in the wall, to provide an enclosure (with the
fitting itself) for the connections.

For wall lights an architrave box
http://www.screwfix.co.uk/prods/63062/Electrical/Switches-Sockets/Mounting-Boxes/Appleby-Architrave-Metal-Box
can be useful. Note that the photograph shows the back.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:36:17 +0100 someone who may be Styx
wrote this:-

Well, the plate is *definitely* designed to be horizontally mounted (as
the glass doohickey attaches to it and could only go one way, and the
lamp holder also determines the orientation).

As to whether the plate is actually designed to be screwed directly to
the wall or some (now missing) part of the fixture -- well, that's a
good question.

I'm not sure how a (flat) plate could be screwed to a wall
horizontally. There is presumably some sort of bracket to which it
fastens, or the plate is L-shaped and that screws to the wall.

It certainly looks like it *could* be screwed to the wall
(there are appropriate screw-holes for that), but perhaps it is actually
supposed to be screwed to a missing part. The plate is about 6-7" long
by around 1.5" high.

I can't envisage a (flat) plate of those dimensions.

There's no box in the wall -- just a hole with the T&E sticking out,

There should be a box in the wall, to provide an enclosure (with the
fitting itself) for the connections.

For wall lights an architrave box
http://www.screwfix.co.uk/prods/63062/Electrical/Switches-Sockets/Mounting-Boxes/Appleby-Architrave-Metal-Box
can be useful. Note that the photograph shows the back.





Here are some (rough) sketches of what they look like:

http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/m..._light_top.png

http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/m...ht_front.pn g

Most (all?) lights I've ever fitted just simply have a (usually)
circular junction-box-type part that attaches to the surface it's being
mounted on (ceiling or wall). Within that, there's normally a terminator
block for attaching the T&E, with the wires for the fitting itself
already in place. Same kind of arrangement as with a simple
white-plastic ceiling pendant, but more decorative. The only times I've
seen arrangements where there's any kind of box /in/ the wall or ceiling
is with flush-mounted fittings.

As previously stated, though, I've done maybe a couple of dozen over the
years -- it's certainly not something I'm doing every day.

Styx

Styx wrote:

David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:36:17 +0100 someone who may be Styx
wrote this:-

Well, the plate is *definitely* designed to be horizontally mounted (as
the glass doohickey attaches to it and could only go one way, and the
lamp holder also determines the orientation).


Here are some (rough) sketches of what they look like:

http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/m..._light_top.png

http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/m...ht_front.pn g

Ah! I think you caused confusion with your use of "horizontal".
A line through the two fixing holes is horizontal, but the plate
is vertical when attached to the wall.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:26:12 +0100 someone who may be Styx
wrote this:-

Here are some (rough) sketches of what they look like:

http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/m..._light_top.png

http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/m...ht_front.pn g


Thanks. If the cable can thread through the tube that connects the
lamp holder to the plate then it looks like an architrave box in the
wall is the way to do it. Fit a cable clamp to prevent strain being
put on the flex if it is pulled out.

If the cable cannot be put through the tube then fit a cord outlet
below the fitting and connect to that.
http://www.screwfix.co.uk/prods/29716/Electrical/Switches-Sockets/White-Moulded/Crabtree-Range/Crabtree-1G-20A-Flush-Cord-Outlet
There nay be more fancy metal versions for those who want a fancy
appearance.

I am assuming switching is not to be done at the luminaire.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:26:12 +0100 someone who may be Styx
wrote this:-

Here are some (rough) sketches of what they look like:

http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/m..._light_top.png

http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/m...ht_front.pn g


Thanks. If the cable can thread through the tube that connects the
lamp holder to the plate then it looks like an architrave box in the
wall is the way to do it. Fit a cable clamp to prevent strain being
put on the flex if it is pulled out.

If the cable cannot be put through the tube then fit a cord outlet
below the fitting and connect to that.
http://www.screwfix.co.uk/prods/29716/Electrical/Switches-Sockets/White-Moulded/Crabtree-Range/Crabtree-1G-20A-Flush-Cord-Outlet
There nay be more fancy metal versions for those who want a fancy
appearance.

Cord outlet looks like the solution. Bugger, wish they'd shown me the
lights and I'd known a back box was needed /prior/ to the
plastering/decorating being finished. Pretty sure the wall they want it
on is block -- I so hate chiselling out holes for boxes...


I am assuming switching is not to be done at the luminaire.



Correct. The switch is on the other side of the room near to the door.

Thanks for all of your input -- I can see what needs to be done now,
just wondering if it might actually be easier (less messy) to get them
to ditch these lights and buy something that doesn't need big holes
being dug into their new plaster.

Styx