Hi All,

I got an 'emergency' call this afternoon from a good elderly neighbour
saying their heating wasn't working because the pump didn't seem to be
running.

I checked it when I got back and managed to release it (it felt like
there was some debris in there) and they have some heating on again (I
don't think 'he' has much time left (throat cancer) and he feels the
cold a lot right now). :-(

The pump is a Myson Unit Three. Is there anything serviceable in
there, would it just need a good clean out or are these signs that
it's on it's last legs? Do they still make them and if not what are
the chances of any replacement just dropping back in (it does have
isolatable flange things at least).

Whist sorting their problem they mentioned some other stuff .. they
have no room stat so the heating is either on or off. They do have
thermostatic rad valves but they have never worked apparently.

This is what they have:

Honeywell LCD mini timer ST499A/ST699B

Honeywell motorized valve (of some sort) V4073A 1039

Honeywell cylinder stat L641A 1005

Temtrol thermostatic rad valves.

I guess I'll be the one trying to fit a room stat somewhere but he's
not up to drilling holes or running cables with me any more (he's the
sort that would *have* to be involved in such things .. (bless)) so I
was wondering if a wireless solution might be easier (if so, what
please)?

The thermostatic rad valves. Should they actually be able to shut the
rad down completely if turned to '0'? Are these TemTrol jobbies known
to be good / bad and would they be easily replaceable with something
that actually worked (ideally without having to drain anything down).

If any parts needed upgrading to make this system easier then I'm sure
they would be up for it (within reason).

All the best ..

T i m

On 2008-03-17 20:30:14 +0000, T i m said:

Hi All,

I got an 'emergency' call this afternoon from a good elderly neighbour
saying their heating wasn't working because the pump didn't seem to be
running.

I checked it when I got back and managed to release it (it felt like
there was some debris in there) and they have some heating on again (I
don't think 'he' has much time left (throat cancer) and he feels the
cold a lot right now). :-(

The pump is a Myson Unit Three. Is there anything serviceable in
there, would it just need a good clean out or are these signs that
it's on it's last legs? Do they still make them and if not what are
the chances of any replacement just dropping back in (it does have
isolatable flange things at least).

Whist sorting their problem they mentioned some other stuff .. they
have no room stat so the heating is either on or off. They do have
thermostatic rad valves but they have never worked apparently.

This is what they have:

Honeywell LCD mini timer ST499A/ST699B

Honeywell motorized valve (of some sort) V4073A 1039

Honeywell cylinder stat L641A 1005

Temtrol thermostatic rad valves.

I guess I'll be the one trying to fit a room stat somewhere but he's
not up to drilling holes or running cables with me any more (he's the
sort that would *have* to be involved in such things .. (bless)) so I
was wondering if a wireless solution might be easier (if so, what
please)?

Could be. Danfoss Randall and Honeywell make them. The receiver can
be wired at the boiler. Not inexpensive




The thermostatic rad valves. Should they actually be able to shut the
rad down completely if turned to '0'?

Yes they should.


Are these TemTrol jobbies known
to be good / bad and would they be easily replaceable with something
that actually worked (ideally without having to drain anything down).

Not heard of them. If they have a standard 30mm screw fitting, then
it may be possible to replace them with something decent like TRV4s.
However, if the valve body is crudded up it would be a case of draining
down and replacing. If that looks like the scenario, then the
practical solution is to buy the complete valves at the best price you
can and replace the lot. If it's getting to that, then replacing
the pump anyway would make good sense, as would a thorough clean and
dosing with inhibitor.




If any parts needed upgrading to make this system easier then I'm sure
they would be up for it (within reason).

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:30:14 +0000, T i m wrote:

Hi All,

I got an 'emergency' call this afternoon from a good elderly neighbour
saying their heating wasn't working because the pump didn't seem to be
running.

I checked it when I got back and managed to release it (it felt like
there was some debris in there) and they have some heating on again (I
don't think 'he' has much time left (throat cancer) and he feels the
cold a lot right now). :-(

The pump is a Myson Unit Three. Is there anything serviceable in
there, would it just need a good clean out or are these signs that
it's on it's last legs? Do they still make them and if not what are
the chances of any replacement just dropping back in (it does have
isolatable flange things at least).

Whist sorting their problem they mentioned some other stuff .. they
have no room stat so the heating is either on or off. They do have
thermostatic rad valves but they have never worked apparently.

This is what they have:

Honeywell LCD mini timer ST499A/ST699B

Honeywell motorized valve (of some sort) V4073A 1039

Honeywell cylinder stat L641A 1005

Temtrol thermostatic rad valves.

I guess I'll be the one trying to fit a room stat somewhere but he's
not up to drilling holes or running cables with me any more (he's the
sort that would *have* to be involved in such things .. (bless)) so I
was wondering if a wireless solution might be easier (if so, what
please)?

The thermostatic rad valves. Should they actually be able to shut the
rad down completely if turned to '0'? Are these TemTrol jobbies known
to be good / bad and would they be easily replaceable with something
that actually worked (ideally without having to drain anything down).

If any parts needed upgrading to make this system easier then I'm sure
they would be up for it (within reason).

All the best ..

T i m
==================================
A part answer about pump; Myson pumps appear to be readily available and
they state that the dimensions are standard:

http://tinyurl.com/2asp86

If the system is very old it would be wise to consider replacing the pump
valves at the same time as they can be very difficult to undo. This would
obviously involve draining down.

Cic.

--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:26:55 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:


I guess I'll be the one trying to fit a room stat somewhere but he's
not up to drilling holes or running cables with me any more (he's the
sort that would *have* to be involved in such things .. (bless)) so I
was wondering if a wireless solution might be easier (if so, what
please)?

Could be. Danfoss Randall and Honeywell make them. The receiver can
be wired at the boiler. Not inexpensive

Ok thanks. I guess it would wire into the Mini programmer somewhere?




The thermostatic rad valves. Should they actually be able to shut the
rad down completely if turned to '0'?

Yes they should.

Ah, ok.


Are these TemTrol jobbies known
to be good / bad and would they be easily replaceable with something
that actually worked (ideally without having to drain anything down).

Not heard of them.

Ok ..

If they have a standard 30mm screw fitting, then
it may be possible to replace them with something decent like TRV4s.

Ok, I'll check ..

However, if the valve body is crudded up it would be a case of draining
down and replacing. If that looks like the scenario, then the
practical solution is to buy the complete valves at the best price you
can and replace the lot. If it's getting to that, then replacing
the pump anyway would make good sense, as would a thorough clean and
dosing with inhibitor.

Having said that, I'm not sure the water that drained out of the pump
was very pretty (looked like black ink) so it may well be due a clean
and Fernox etc.

Hmm, they always start off simple eh ..? Oh well, they are a very nice
couple and both are going through it a bit at the moment so they could
do with some help (and thank you for yours).

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:46:03 GMT, Cicero
wrote:

A part answer about pump; Myson pumps appear to be readily available and
they state that the dimensions are standard:

Handy (for me) if they are!

http://tinyurl.com/2asp86

And cheaper than I expected. ;-)

If the system is very old it would be wise to consider replacing the pump
valves at the same time as they can be very difficult to undo. This would
obviously involve draining down.

Hmm, it looks like I'll be doing that anyway but I'm not sure if /
when there will be a good time anytime soon (it's very warm in there
and he still feels cold. They can't give him any more treatment
because of his pacemaker) :-(

All the best ..

T i m

On 2008-03-17 23:17:50 +0000, T i m said:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:26:55 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:


I guess I'll be the one trying to fit a room stat somewhere but he's
not up to drilling holes or running cables with me any more (he's the
sort that would *have* to be involved in such things .. (bless)) so I
was wondering if a wireless solution might be easier (if so, what
please)?

Could be. Danfoss Randall and Honeywell make them. The receiver can
be wired at the boiler. Not inexpensive

Ok thanks. I guess it would wire into the Mini programmer somewhere?

You can thermostat only or complete programmer. If you aren't going
to do anything with the cylinder thermostat (no need probably) then
hooking in the wireless device as a thermostat only could be done.







The thermostatic rad valves. Should they actually be able to shut the
rad down completely if turned to '0'?

Yes they should.

Ah, ok.

Some I've seen have a frost position before you reach the fully off,
and then you have to turn or push and turn past this to go fully off.
In this case probably not. Typical signs of a knackered TRV top
piece (wax device) is that it doesn't shut fully or only does fully on
or fully off when you turn it. The valve body can also be stuck.
It's worth taking off the head and seeing if you can push the pin down.
It only goes a few mm. Use a block of wood to do this. If it
doesn't move, then try pushing gently but firmly with the wood or a
*light* tap of the wood with a hammer.




Are these TemTrol jobbies known
to be good / bad and would they be easily replaceable with something
that actually worked (ideally without having to drain anything down).

Not heard of them.

Ok ..

If they have a standard 30mm screw fitting, then
it may be possible to replace them with something decent like TRV4s.

Ok, I'll check ..

However, if the valve body is crudded up it would be a case of draining
down and replacing. If that looks like the scenario, then the
practical solution is to buy the complete valves at the best price you
can and replace the lot. If it's getting to that, then replacing
the pump anyway would make good sense, as would a thorough clean and
dosing with inhibitor.

Having said that, I'm not sure the water that drained out of the pump
was very pretty (looked like black ink) so it may well be due a clean
and Fernox etc.

This isn't good. If it's like this, have a check of the radiators at
the bottoms in the centre. If they are noticably cooler then there is
substantial sludging as well. Their probably is some anyway. This
would be a queue to drain and flush the system, take out the radiators
on by one and flush them outside (the water stains indellibly) and
replace the TRVs (probably the realistic option) and lockshields
(inexpensive)



Hmm, they always start off simple eh ..? Oh well, they are a very nice
couple and both are going through it a bit at the moment so they could
do with some help (and thank you for yours).

Quite. I think you also have to weigh up the disruption and whether
that would be too much for them. You could always do some now and
some when it gets a bit warmer perhaps. OTOH perhaps the gentleman
would be relieved (even though he may not have said it) to know that
it's all OK for when he's not there to take care of it any more.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
T i m wrote:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:26:55 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:


Could be. Danfoss Randall and Honeywell make them. The receiver
can be wired at the boiler. Not inexpensive

Ok thanks. I guess it would wire into the Mini programmer somewhere?


It sounds like a fairly standard Y-Plan system, in which case the wiring may
well all come together in a wiring centre (10-way junction box in real
money) as shown in the Y-Plan wiring diagram in
http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/systems.htm

As you can see, the switching contacts of the stat need to be connected
between 4 and 5 in the 10-way box (probably currently bridged by a solid
link, since there isn't a stat). The room in which you install the sensor
part of the wireless stat shouldn't have a TRV on its radiator. Since there
probably *is* one already, you can prevent it from operating by removing its
thermostatic head.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:37:32 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
T i m wrote:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:26:55 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:


Could be. Danfoss Randall and Honeywell make them. The receiver
can be wired at the boiler. Not inexpensive

Ok thanks. I guess it would wire into the Mini programmer somewhere?


It sounds like a fairly standard Y-Plan system, in which case the wiring may
well all come together in a wiring centre (10-way junction box in real
money) as shown in the Y-Plan wiring diagram in
http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/systems.htm

Ah, thanks for that Roger. I didn't remember seeing a junction box but
it may well be about somewhere. ;-)

As you can see, the switching contacts of the stat need to be connected
between 4 and 5 in the 10-way box (probably currently bridged by a solid
link, since there isn't a stat). The room in which you install the sensor
part of the wireless stat shouldn't have a TRV on its radiator. Since there
probably *is* one already, you can prevent it from operating by removing its
thermostatic head.

Understood. You don't want them fighting each other etc.

I'll have a look for the j/b when I pop back for our dinner plate
later (she's not been eating properly as he can't eat much so she
hasn't been bothering for herself).

I have found and printed off most of the tech stuff for the various
components so now I just need to find them a suitable wireless room
stat.

On that, are the remote bits battery powered so are fully portable
etc? If so what sort of time do they last please?

Would someone be so kind and to send me a link to one that they know
might be a good match for the existing kit (if it matters) and / or is
a good reliable unit in itself please.

All the best ..

T i m

On 2008-03-18 20:00:54 +0000, T i m said:

I'll have a look for the j/b when I pop back for our dinner plate
later (she's not been eating properly as he can't eat much so she
hasn't been bothering for herself).


This is much more important than anything to do with the CH.

Thinking wider, are there any other things that can be done so that he
feels warm, or where you can make an immediate or short term
difference? OTOH, perhaps normality (including fixing the CH) is a
good way to help also.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:38:15 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2008-03-18 20:00:54 +0000, T i m said:

I'll have a look for the j/b when I pop back for our dinner plate
later (she's not been eating properly as he can't eat much so she
hasn't been bothering for herself).


This is much more important than anything to do with the CH.

Well, luckily she's not going to fade away overnight as such wink
but we know she has been neglecting herself to some degree of late as
he has become more 'frail'.

Thinking wider, are there any other things that can be done so that he
feels warm, or where you can make an immediate or short term
difference?

Well when the heating went off yesterday they turned on their 'real
flame' looking gas fire and he laid on the sofa under a blanket or
two. The issue here is getting a compromise that doesn't cook her
whilst keeping him warm. If she is wearing light clothing then about
the only thing left is to dress him up more (assuming they are sharing
the same room etc). [1]

OTOH, perhaps normality (including fixing the CH) is a
good way to help also.

Well that was my thought, especially as she has now explained their
'digital' heating system. :-(

I think if I can get a room stat in their living room then I can deal
with the other bits at more convenient (to them) times, like when it's
a bit warmer ...

All the best ...

T i m

p.s. You mentioned that "Danfoss Randall and Honeywell" make wireless
stats. Have you used any and would a particular one be 'better' for
these older people do you think please (big letters, easy buttons /
functions etc). They have also been turning the power off to the
heating every night (they turn the power off to nearly everything) ..
would that impact such a wireless thingy?

[1] I might suggest and / or even get an electric over blanket for
him.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
snip
p.s. You mentioned that "Danfoss Randall and Honeywell" make wireless
stats. Have you used any and would a particular one be 'better' for
these older people do you think please (big letters, easy buttons /
functions etc). They have also been turning the power off to the
heating every night (they turn the power off to nearly everything) ..
would that impact such a wireless thingy?


I have recently fitted some thermostats from
http://www.coronadocontrols.com/ , who sell either directly or through
ebay (username coronadocontrols).

I used programmable ones, but their wireless programmable offering,
branded "Celect DRF2" isn't very easy to override for someone not used
to pushing small buttons. Their DRF1 looks a lot easier to use - one
button for up, one for down. The hysteresis on the DRF2 seems a little
greater than ideal, but it was very easy to fit, and a fraction of the
price of thermostats from the usual big names. I suspect they're all
made in the same factory. I wasn't pushing my luck with distances from
transmitter to receiver, but I did ignore the advice about separation
distance from metalwork, since I wanted the receiver to be near the
valve farm I'd set up for zone controls.

Their wired programmable thermostats TH-9520B are working fine, too, and
seem good value at £12 each plus a rather over-inflated p&p.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. )***