Should we pay out for Kingspan insulation boards being applied to the
exterior of our house? We bumped into a friend the other day and she
was with a friend who is an architect. When he heard that we are about
to have shiplap weatherboard cladding applied to the exterior of our
house he said it would be easy to have Kingspan insulation boards fitted
between the batons which the weatherboard will be nailed to and that
this insulation would make a BIG difference to the warmth of the house
inside.

The outside of our house is incredibly ugly with badly applied concrete
render, or "roughcast", splattered all over it. The weatherboarding
will hide all that AND also look very good once stained. But now we are
wondering whether to ask the builders to fit Kingspan between the render
and the weatherboard.

Previously we got a quote for tearing off all the plasterboard inside,
pulling out the fibreglass wool between the studs, fitting Kingspan,
applying new plasterboard in all the rooms, and skimming over. The
quote was a shock! Ridiculously expensive - not because of the
insulation but because of the plasterboarding and the plastering. So
the whole idea had to be dropped.

But slipping Kingspan over the outside surface before nailing on the
weatherboarding would be easy and wouldn't push the price up too much
apparently. So the architect said and our builders agree. (They're
working out a quote.)

But the big question is: would it make a noticeable or worthwhile
difference to the temperature inside? What do you think? Has anybody
done this already?

All feedback much appreciated.

Eddy.

On Mar 14, 7:44 pm, Eddy
wrote:
Should we pay out for Kingspan insulation boards being applied to the
exterior of our house? We bumped into a friend the other day and she
was with a friend who is an architect. When he heard that we are about
to have shiplap weatherboard cladding applied to the exterior of our
house he said it would be easy to have Kingspan insulation boards fitted
between the batons which the weatherboard will be nailed to and that
this insulation would make a BIG difference to the warmth of the house
inside.

The outside of our house is incredibly ugly with badly applied concrete
render, or "roughcast", splattered all over it. The weatherboarding
will hide all that AND also look very good once stained. But now we are
wondering whether to ask the builders to fit Kingspan between the render
and the weatherboard.

Previously we got a quote for tearing off all the plasterboard inside,
pulling out the fibreglass wool between the studs, fitting Kingspan,
applying new plasterboard in all the rooms, and skimming over. The
quote was a shock! Ridiculously expensive - not because of the
insulation but because of the plasterboarding and the plastering. So
the whole idea had to be dropped.

But slipping Kingspan over the outside surface before nailing on the
weatherboarding would be easy and wouldn't push the price up too much
apparently. So the architect said and our builders agree. (They're
working out a quote.)

But the big question is: would it make a noticeable or worthwhile
difference to the temperature inside? What do you think? Has anybody
done this already?

All feedback much appreciated.

Eddy.

Damn good idea if your building is stone or brick and you are having
weatherboarding anyway. The more the better but detailing critical
i.e. if draughts can bypass the insulation then it's worthless, on a
windy day especially. Also there would be an eaves detail where the
new work sticks out. If not masonry then insulation outside or within
the wall makes no difference in principle. Masonry would act as a
'heat sink' and slowly warm up to average room temp, radiating heat
back when the heating is off, or during the night after summer daytime
heat has been absorbed.

cheers
Jacob

Have a look at manufacturer recommendations: http://www.celotex.co.uk/walls/solid.php

As NW says, external insulation will increase thermal mass (do you
want that - or would you prefer fast warm up when you get home from
work?)

Also detailing - how will substantially thicker cladding fit around
window/doors/eaves/soil pipes/flues/adjoining buildings garages etc.

wrote:
Have a look at manufacturer recommendations: http://www.celotex.co.uk/walls/solid.php

As NW says, external insulation will increase thermal mass (do you
want that - or would you prefer fast warm up when you get home from
work?)

On balance I dont think it actually makes that much difference to
heating costs - the thermal mass that is.

The rooms tend to feel warmer than they are, due to a nice ovearll
retentin of warmth..you just need to advance teh tiner a bit. So let th
heating come on at 4pm instead of 6, and go off at ten instead of 12pm


Also detailing - how will substantially thicker cladding fit around
window/doors/eaves/soil pipes/flues/adjoining buildings garages etc.

Good point.

On 14 Mar, 19:44, Eddy
wrote:
Should we pay out for Kingspan insulation boards being applied to the
exterior of our house? *We bumped into a friend the other day and she
was with a friend who is an architect. *When he heard that we are about
to have shiplap weatherboard cladding applied to the exterior of our
house he said it would be easy to have Kingspan insulation boards fitted
between the batons which the weatherboard will be nailed to and that
this insulation would make a BIG difference to the warmth of the house
inside.

The outside of our house is incredibly ugly with badly applied concrete
render, or "roughcast", splattered all over it. *The weatherboarding
will hide all that AND also look very good once stained. *But now we are
wondering whether to ask the builders to fit Kingspan between the render
and the weatherboard.

Previously we got a quote for tearing off all the plasterboard inside,
pulling out the fibreglass wool between the studs, fitting Kingspan,
applying new plasterboard in all the rooms, and skimming over. *The
quote was a shock! * Ridiculously expensive - not because of the
insulation but because of the plasterboarding and the plastering. *So
the whole idea had to be dropped.

But slipping Kingspan over the outside surface before nailing on the
weatherboarding would be easy and wouldn't push the price up too much
apparently. *So the architect said and our builders agree. *(They're
working out a quote.)

But the big question is: would it make a noticeable or worthwhile
difference to the temperature inside? *What do you think? *Has anybody
done this already?

All feedback much appreciated.

Eddy.

Dear Eddy
From what you say the construction appears to be masonry with an
internal stud lining or possibly structure
I personally would bite the bullet and if it is 4" studwork do the
internal lining. Get other quotes from 'nominated' sub-contractors and
see if it really is that expensive and - as this is a DIY site
consider doing it yourself! Removal of plaster board can be done by
anyone (cheap labour) cutting Kspan to size is easy as is fitting it
to studwork. Use foil backed plasterboard and even consider 1"
internal layer over top of studs to avoid cold bridges or stud work.
Much less hassle than fitting in all eaves and windows externally AND
quick warm up.
If you do all hte plasterboarding the only pro job will be the pinking
Chris

wrote:
Dear Eddy
From what you say the construction appears to be masonry with an
internal stud lining or possibly structure
I personally would bite the bullet and if it is 4" studwork do the
internal lining. Get other quotes from 'nominated' sub-contractors and
see if it really is that expensive and - as this is a DIY site
consider doing it yourself! Removal of plaster board can be done by
anyone (cheap labour) cutting Kspan to size is easy as is fitting it
to studwork. Use foil backed plasterboard and even consider 1"
internal layer over top of studs to avoid cold bridges or stud work.
Much less hassle than fitting in all eaves and windows externally AND
quick warm up.
If you do all hte plasterboarding the only pro job will be the pinking
Chris

Thanks very much, Chris. I didn't want to lumber you with too much
detail in the first post, so I decided not to go into the internal
composition of the walls. But here goes, because I can see now that
it's relevant. The ground floor of this house is thick stone, maybe 150
years old, about 18" thick. So the groundfloor keeps its heat quite
well once the heating has been on for a while & warmed up the solid
stone/rock walls. Also, this old stone, from the outside, looks
attractive. Inside, it plastered well.

The first floor is a different kettle of fish. At some point, probably
within the last 30 years, it's been rebuilt. It is entirely
timber-frame. Starting from the inside we have: woodchip wallpaper,
plasterboard, yellow insulation wall between timber studs, 3/4" plywood
boards covering the external surface, wire attached to the plywood, then
about half an inch of render/roughcast splattered onto the wire.

We've agonised about the woodchip for weeks. It's on the ceilings as
well! We've been led to believe there's no getting it off without
damaging the surface of the plasterboard, hence the idea of simply
ripping the lot off and replacing it before skimming over - AND taking
advantage of this to replace and upgrading the insulation wool between
the studs with modern insulation board. We're unwilling to do all this
ourselves. There's enough work to be done elsewhere round the place.
And the quotes we have received to have builders do it have been
horrendous. So live with woodchip we must. But with emulsion (rather
than the current semi-gloss!) and a few tricks it won't look as bad as
it does now.

Eddy.

normanwisdom wrote:
Damn good idea if your building is stone or brick and you are having
weatherboarding anyway. The more the better but detailing critical
i.e. if draughts can bypass the insulation then it's worthless, on a
windy day especially. Also there would be an eaves detail where the
new work sticks out. If not masonry then insulation outside or within
the wall makes no difference in principle. Masonry would act as a
'heat sink' and slowly warm up to average room temp, radiating heat
back when the heating is off, or during the night after summer daytime
heat has been absorbed.

Thanks, Jacob.

Thanks for mentioning the effect of drafts through gaps round the
insulation boards basically rendering them a waste of money. We have
wondered about this. A bit like a skiing jacket: you need to pull those
built-in cords around the waist, and button up round the neck, if the
power of the insulating material is to be effective, the heat kept IN.
We're in one hell of an exposed spot here, right in the middle of wind
tunnel. So I guess this means we need to challenge the builder with the
idea of sealing the insulation boards in, i.e. after they been pressed
in between the batons, then a tube of sealant or something needs to be
run round the edges, to make sure those drafts don't get in. What do
you think?

Yes, the eaves detail would be a problem . . . if it weren't for the
fact that the entire roof was in a bad state and is currently being
replaced. The new one (unlike the old one) is going to overhang the
sides of the house quite considerably.

So, in my very simple thinking it seems that if we can get the builder
to seal the insulation boards round the edges, then the entire first
floor of the house will have an additional & effective "coat" on. I've
looked at the Celotex website and they state that studs act as bridges
and can negate the effects of insulation, so I guess in our scenario the
batons applied to the external concrete render would be the weak links,
conveying cold from the weatherboarding to the render. But, in terms of
coverage the batons are minor when compared to the area covered by the
insulation boards.

Does this sound right to you?

Thanks a lot.

Eddy.

wrote:
Have a look at manufacturer recommendations: http://www.celotex.co.uk/walls/solid.php

Thanks for this, Dom. Some helpful pointers there. I also note they
don't even consider how to insulate houses which are only timber-framed!
Shows how "backward" our upstairs is! On the other hand, I have got to
say this house is a bit like an "eco house" already. This is because
the entire house is a "long house", i.e. only one-room wide. All the
rooms are in a line, on both floors, and all the windows in all those
rooms only face directly south AND all those windows are large windows
AND double-glazed. This means that if there's any glimmer of sunshine
at all, the upstairs gets somewhat heated up.

As NW says, external insulation will increase thermal mass (do you
want that - or would you prefer fast warm up when you get home from
work?)

Thanks pointing out the choice between fast warm-up and slow. I guess
we are stuck with slow (in the absence of sunshine), i.e. first heat
will heat up the internal wals, the stud spaces & the rather flimsy
woollen insulation within them, then the plywood & concrete render. But
effective tight sealed draft-free insulation boards beyond the concrete
render, topped with weatherboarding, ought to put a substantial stop on
that outwards passage of heat. Or so it seems.

Also detailing - how will substantially thicker cladding fit around
window/doors/eaves/soil pipes/flues/adjoining buildings garages etc.

The builders know they are going to have a challenge when it comes to
the upstairs window ledges, which are all UPVC. There was talk of
shearing them off close into the window-frame and sealing new ones into
position but I put a stop to that idea. The idea of a join filled with
rubber-sealant, particularly on the south-facing side of the house,
doesn't seem wise to me. Over the years gaps could occur and water get
in. So they're probably going to attach some kind of surface BENEATH
the current window sills to ensure rain doesn't just dribble down the
weatherboarding. Anyway, thank heavens there aren't any such challenges
on the first floor (doors/eaves/soil pipes/flues/adjoining buildings
garages etc.) There was talk of attaching strips of down-turning lead
beneath the sills. Anyway, I've said nothing is to be done until the
weatherboarding is in place and we can see just how much the sills have
been compromised. Maybe there are other possibilities?

Eddy.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

wrote:
Have a look at manufacturer recommendations: http://www.celotex.co.uk/walls/solid.php

As NW says, external insulation will increase thermal mass (do you
want that - or would you prefer fast warm up when you get home from
work?)

On balance I dont think it actually makes that much difference to
heating costs - the thermal mass that is.

The rooms tend to feel warmer than they are, due to a nice ovearll
retentin of warmth..you just need to advance teh tiner a bit. So let th
heating come on at 4pm instead of 6, and go off at ten instead of 12pm

NP, I've little idea of thermal mass, must admit. Are you saying that
if we do go ahead with slipping insulation board between the concrete
render & the weatherboarding AND the insulation boards are sealed all
round their edges so that there are as few gaps and drafts as possible,
it won't reduce our heating bills much? This would imply that the
thermostat will keep switching the boiler on as much as it is doing so
at the moment, which implies that the addition of insulation boards to
the exterior won't make much of a difference of the retention of heat
within the rooms inside. Have I got you right?


Also detailing - how will substantially thicker cladding fit around
window/doors/eaves/soil pipes/flues/adjoining buildings garages etc.

Good point.

Good point indeed, but in our case it will only be a challenge beneath
our window sills.

Eddy.

i got this book from the library,
it was so good that i bought a copy on amazon

i hightly recommend it to you, cheaper than half a sheet of kingspan!

Build Like a Pro: Expert Advice from Start to Finish: Insulate and
Weatherize (Build Like a Pro - Expert Advice from Start to Finish)
(Paperback)
by Bruce Harley (Author) "There is a lot of misconception, folklore, and
conflicting information about the consequences of weatherizing a house: ""A
house has to breathe-you don't want it..." (more)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Build-Like-P...ref=pd_ys_iyr2


--

[george]

~ [g] ~
~ ~
~ 07970 378 572 ~
~ www.dicegeorge.com ~
~ (c)2008 ~
~ ~

"Eddy" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Dear Eddy
From what you say the construction appears to be masonry with an
internal stud lining or possibly structure
I personally would bite the bullet and if it is 4" studwork do the
internal lining. Get other quotes from 'nominated' sub-contractors and
see if it really is that expensive and - as this is a DIY site
consider doing it yourself! Removal of plaster board can be done by
anyone (cheap labour) cutting Kspan to size is easy as is fitting it
to studwork. Use foil backed plasterboard and even consider 1"
internal layer over top of studs to avoid cold bridges or stud work.
Much less hassle than fitting in all eaves and windows externally AND
quick warm up.
If you do all hte plasterboarding the only pro job will be the pinking
Chris

Thanks very much, Chris. I didn't want to lumber you with too much
detail in the first post, so I decided not to go into the internal
composition of the walls. But here goes, because I can see now that
it's relevant. The ground floor of this house is thick stone, maybe 150
years old, about 18" thick. So the groundfloor keeps its heat quite
well once the heating has been on for a while & warmed up the solid
stone/rock walls. Also, this old stone, from the outside, looks
attractive. Inside, it plastered well.

The first floor is a different kettle of fish. At some point, probably
within the last 30 years, it's been rebuilt. It is entirely
timber-frame. Starting from the inside we have: woodchip wallpaper,
plasterboard, yellow insulation wall between timber studs, 3/4" plywood
boards covering the external surface, wire attached to the plywood, then
about half an inch of render/roughcast splattered onto the wire.

We've agonised about the woodchip for weeks. It's on the ceilings as
well! We've been led to believe there's no getting it off without
damaging the surface of the plasterboard, hence the idea of simply
ripping the lot off and replacing it before skimming over - AND taking
advantage of this to replace and upgrading the insulation wool between
the studs with modern insulation board. We're unwilling to do all this
ourselves. There's enough work to be done elsewhere round the place.
And the quotes we have received to have builders do it have been
horrendous. So live with woodchip we must. But with emulsion (rather
than the current semi-gloss!) and a few tricks it won't look as bad as
it does now.

Eddy.

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:19:40 GMT, Eddy wrote:

The ground floor of this house is thick stone, maybe 150
years old, about 18" thick. So the groundfloor keeps its heat quite
well once the heating has been on for a while & warmed up the solid
stone/rock walls. Also, this old stone, from the outside, looks
attractive. Inside, it plastered well.

When you warm up the solid walls, that heat is going to get drawn down
through the footings straight into the earth. How quickly do they get cold
when you turn the heating off? Perhaps measure it with a laser thermometer?

External dry lining with kingspan won't do anything to prevent that. I
personally think the only sensible solution if you want to reduce heatloss
is internal dry lining with kingspan as already suggested. DIY.
Polyurethane type adhesive with one mechanical fixing per board is the
quickest way. Then pay someone to skim the walls when you've drylined it.

Martyn.

--
Geosolar, Cambridge. Gas central heating installations.
High quality ATAG boilers www.geosolar.co.uk

"Eddy" wrote in message
...

Should we pay out for Kingspan insulation boards being applied to the
exterior of our house? We bumped into a friend the other day and she
was with a friend who is an architect. When he heard that we are about
to have shiplap weatherboard cladding applied to the exterior of our
house he said it would be easy to have Kingspan insulation boards fitted
between the batons which the weatherboard will be nailed to and that
this insulation would make a BIG difference to the warmth of the house
inside.

The outside of our house is incredibly ugly with badly applied concrete
render, or "roughcast", splattered all over it. The weatherboarding
will hide all that AND also look very good once stained. But now we are
wondering whether to ask the builders to fit Kingspan between the render
and the weatherboard.

Previously we got a quote for tearing off all the plasterboard inside,
pulling out the fibreglass wool between the studs, fitting Kingspan,
applying new plasterboard in all the rooms, and skimming over. The
quote was a shock! Ridiculously expensive - not because of the
insulation but because of the plasterboarding and the plastering. So
the whole idea had to be dropped.

But slipping Kingspan over the outside surface before nailing on the
weatherboarding would be easy and wouldn't push the price up too much
apparently. So the architect said and our builders agree. (They're
working out a quote.)

But the big question is: would it make a noticeable or worthwhile
difference to the temperature inside? What do you think? Has anybody
done this already?

All feedback much appreciated.

Eddy, use high performing KIngspan. Not to do it is foolish. Best to clad
the house with Kingspan, put the outer studs over and screw through the
studs, Kingspan and into the house wall. This eliminates cold bridges. Then
between the studs install more Kingspan.

In the future as you do up rooms install Kingspan between the internal studs
too. You get to near the point that you will not need full CH if he house
is air-tight enough. Fit an insulated and sealed front door.

"Eddy" wrote in message
...

Yes, the eaves detail would be a problem . . . if it weren't for the
fact that the entire roof was in a bad state and is currently being
replaced.

It sounds like this house should have been demolished and new built in its
place.

"George (dicegeorge)" wrote in message
...
i got this book from the library,
it was so good that i bought a copy on amazon

i hightly recommend it to you, cheaper than half a sheet of kingspan!

Build Like a Pro: Expert Advice from Start to Finish: Insulate and
Weatherize (Build Like a Pro - Expert Advice from Start to Finish)
(Paperback)
by Bruce Harley (Author) "There is a lot of misconception, folklore, and
conflicting information about the consequences of weatherizing a house:
""A house has to breathe-you don't want it..." (more)

It says...
"Too much insulation will make your house rot,"

Which is total tripe. A house needs to get rid of water vapour, which does
the damage (they call this breathing). A house doesn't need air, it needs
air as the carrier to take away the water vapour. You stop the vapour
getting inside walls. You stop the vapour hitting cold surfaces and
condensing - this where insulation prevents a house from rotting. You
extract moisture laden air at source - in bathrooms, hobs, etc. An air
tight, well insulated house needs a heat recovery and vent system - a 40
watt fan slow turning extracting the moisture and bringing in fresh air.

"Martyn Pollard" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:19:40 GMT, Eddy wrote:

The ground floor of this house is thick stone, maybe 150
years old, about 18" thick. So the groundfloor keeps its heat quite
well once the heating has been on for a while & warmed up the solid
stone/rock walls. Also, this old stone, from the outside, looks
attractive. Inside, it plastered well.

When you warm up the solid walls, that heat is going to get drawn down
through the footings straight into the earth. How quickly do they get cold
when you turn the heating off? Perhaps measure it with a laser
thermometer?

External dry lining with kingspan
won't do anything to prevent that. I
personally think the only sensible
solution if you want to reduce heatloss
is internal dry lining with kingspan as
already suggested.

Which is total wrong. External insulation will give him all that thermal
mass. Thermal mass stabilises a rooms temperature it also holds coolth and
cools a house in summer.

He could dig down around the foundations and put insulation against the
foundation walls underground. That will help at a lot and greatly slow the
heat sink to ground.

"Eddy" wrote in message
...

NP, I've little idea of thermal mass,

Insulate as much as possible on the outside. High performing Kingspan or
Cellotex. There are others too. Keep the thermal mass. Have "wet" plaster
over the stone.

Insulate the footings under the ground. This something you can do over
period of time working your way around the house - keeps you fits.

On Mar 28, 9:48*am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
Which is total wrong. *

Physician, heal thyself!

External insulation will give him all that thermal
mass.

Insulation does not give thermal mass.

MBQ

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 28, 9:48 am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
Which is total wrong.

Physician, heal thyself!

External insulation will give him all that thermal
mass.

Insulation does not give thermal mass.


You must learn to read properly.

On Mar 28, 1:49*pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...
On Mar 28, 9:48 am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

Which is total wrong.

Physician, heal thyself!

External insulation will give him all that thermal
mass.

Insulation does not give thermal mass.


You must learn to read properly.

If you meant something other than "External insulation will give him
all that thermal mass" then I suggest you learn to write properly.

MBQ

External insulation will give him all that thermal
mass.

Insulation does not give thermal mass.

Well it does really - it turns the masonry into a heat reservoir
(conserving heat) instead of a heat conductor (losing heat to the
outside).
BTW masonry is very conductive - that story of thick walls keeping
houses cool in summer and warm in winter is only half true i.e. the
first half, they lose a lot of heat in winter. Check out the k values
you might be surprised

cheers
Jacob

normanwisdom wrote:

Well it does really

No it doesn't actually. The 'thermal mass' - strictly thermal capacity,
i.e. mass times specific heat - of the masonry isn't affected by adding
insulation. OK, the insulation itself has some thermal mass, but that
will usually be negligible in comparison to the mass of whatever's being
insulated.

- it turns the masonry into a heat reservoir
(conserving heat) instead of a heat conductor (losing heat to the
outside).

What you're trying to say is that it increases the thermal /time constant/.

Time constant of a structure = (mass * specific heat) / (U-value * area)

(First-order system approximation.)

--
Andy

On Mar 28, 7:29 pm, Andy Wade wrote:
normanwisdom wrote:
Well it does really

No it doesn't actually. The 'thermal mass' - strictly thermal capacity,
i.e. mass times specific heat - of the masonry isn't affected by adding
insulation.
Yes but it's useful performance as a thermal mass has value if
insulated on the outside , so there tit head

On 2008-03-28 21:18:01 +0000, normanwisdom said:

On Mar 28, 7:29 pm, Andy Wade wrote:
normanwisdom wrote:
Well it does really

No it doesn't actually. The 'thermal mass' - strictly thermal capacity,
i.e. mass times specific heat - of the masonry isn't affected by adding
insulation.
Yes but it's useful performance as a thermal mass has value if
insulated on the outside , so there tit head

That rather depends on whether one *wants* thermal mass.

The other side of that coin is what happens if the weather changes and
temperature changes?

If you have high thermal mass to contend with then it will take longer
to address the effects of that.

Storage heaters and underfloor heating are examples of that. The
former are worthless and the latter need careful operation.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel"
saying something like:

It says...
"Too much insulation will make your house rot,"

Bad day for reading comprehension, is it? He quotes that as being the
type of thing that's said by the ignorant.
--

Dave

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47ed6d53@qaanaaq...
On 2008-03-28 21:18:01 +0000, normanwisdom said:

On Mar 28, 7:29 pm, Andy Wade wrote:
normanwisdom wrote:
Well it does really

No it doesn't actually. The 'thermal mass' - strictly thermal capacity,
i.e. mass times specific heat - of the masonry isn't affected by adding
insulation.
Yes but it's useful performance as a thermal mass has value if
insulated on the outside , so there tit head

That rather depends on whether one *wants* thermal mass.

Matt, you must understand thermal mass and its benefits. Buy "The Whole
House Book".

The other side of that coin is what happens if the weather changes and
temperature changes?

If you have high thermal mass to contend with then it will take longer to
address the effects of that.

The heating system adjust to suit. Matt, you really don't know.

On 2008-03-28 22:50:54 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47ed6d53@qaanaaq...
On 2008-03-28 21:18:01 +0000, normanwisdom said:

On Mar 28, 7:29 pm, Andy Wade wrote:
normanwisdom wrote:
Well it does really

No it doesn't actually. The 'thermal mass' - strictly thermal capacity,
i.e. mass times specific heat - of the masonry isn't affected by adding
insulation.
Yes but it's useful performance as a thermal mass has value if
insulated on the outside , so there tit head

That rather depends on whether one *wants* thermal mass.

Matt, you must understand thermal mass and its benefits. Buy "The
Whole House Book".

The other side of that coin is what happens if the weather changes and
temperature changes?

If you have high thermal mass to contend with then it will take longer
to address the effects of that.

The heating system adjust to suit. Matt, you really don't know.

I didn't say don't do it. I said understand the implications.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47ed786a@qaanaaq...
On 2008-03-28 22:50:54 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47ed6d53@qaanaaq...
On 2008-03-28 21:18:01 +0000, normanwisdom said:

On Mar 28, 7:29 pm, Andy Wade wrote:
normanwisdom wrote:
Well it does really

No it doesn't actually. The 'thermal mass' - strictly thermal
capacity,
i.e. mass times specific heat - of the masonry isn't affected by
adding
insulation.
Yes but it's useful performance as a thermal mass has value if
insulated on the outside , so there tit head

That rather depends on whether one *wants* thermal mass.

Matt, you must understand thermal mass and its benefits. Buy "The Whole
House Book".

The other side of that coin is what happens if the weather changes and
temperature changes?

If you have high thermal mass to contend with then it will take longer
to address the effects of that.

The heating system adjust to suit. Matt, you really don't know.

I didn't say don't do it. I said understand the implications.

Matt, you still don't know.

Andy Hall wrote:

Storage heaters [...] are worthless.

Actually in well-insulated buildings with long thermal time constants
(achieved through the use of high thermal mass) they can work very well.

--
Andy

On 2008-03-28 23:55:59 +0000, Andy Wade said:

Andy Hall wrote:

Storage heaters [...] are worthless.

Actually in well-insulated buildings with long thermal time constants
(achieved through the use of high thermal mass) they can work very well.

Not many of those though...