Hello,
We live in an end terrace built around 1900 with a stone outer wall and
brick inner.
I have currently got the kitchen totally gutted, including the ceiling down
and quite a bit of loose plaster missing from walls.
At first I was intending patching up the missing plaster, re-boarding the
ceiling and having the whole lot skimmed.
I have now been wondering if there is any benefit to fitting slab insulation
above the ceiling, or letting the escaping heat warm the bedroom above?
Also, the house has not got cavity wall insulation, is there much
benefit.when comparing energy savings to installation costs, in fitting wall
insulation/plasterboard such as Kingspan K17/K18?
Any advice gratefully recieved,
Thanks,
Tony.

i think you should kingspan the walls which go to outdoors,
but not the ceiling.

and perhaps under the floor.

and draughtproof everywhere..
but with ventilation for the kitchen steam

but im not an expert,
im starting out like you...

Tony wrote:
Hello,
We live in an end terrace built around 1900 with a stone outer wall and
brick inner.
I have currently got the kitchen totally gutted, including the ceiling down
and quite a bit of loose plaster missing from walls.
At first I was intending patching up the missing plaster, re-boarding the
ceiling and having the whole lot skimmed.
I have now been wondering if there is any benefit to fitting slab insulation
above the ceiling, or letting the escaping heat warm the bedroom above?
Also, the house has not got cavity wall insulation, is there much
benefit.when comparing energy savings to installation costs, in fitting wall
insulation/plasterboard such as Kingspan K17/K18?
Any advice gratefully recieved,
Thanks,
Tony.


Dont bothre to insulate one room from another, but definitely insulkate
any outside walls eif they are stripped back.

Kingspan and similar definitely best, and yes, the way fuel is going,
payback will be pretty fast. A few years at most I'd say.

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:08:16 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Tony wrote:
Hello,
We live in an end terrace built around 1900 with a stone outer wall and
brick inner.
I have currently got the kitchen totally gutted, including the ceiling down
and quite a bit of loose plaster missing from walls.
At first I was intending patching up the missing plaster, re-boarding the
ceiling and having the whole lot skimmed.
I have now been wondering if there is any benefit to fitting slab insulation
above the ceiling, or letting the escaping heat warm the bedroom above?
Also, the house has not got cavity wall insulation, is there much
benefit.when comparing energy savings to installation costs, in fitting wall
insulation/plasterboard such as Kingspan K17/K18?
Any advice gratefully recieved,
Thanks,
Tony.


Dont bothre to insulate one room from another, but definitely insulkate
any outside walls eif they are stripped back.

Apart from for sound proofing perhaps?



Kingspan and similar definitely best, and yes, the way fuel is going,
payback will be pretty fast. A few years at most I'd say.
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk

On Mar 11, 8:35 pm, "Tony" wrote:
Hello,
We live in an end terrace built around 1900 with a stone outer wall and
brick inner.
I have currently got the kitchen totally gutted, including the ceiling down
and quite a bit of loose plaster missing from walls.
At first I was intending patching up the missing plaster, re-boarding the
ceiling and having the whole lot skimmed.
I have now been wondering if there is any benefit to fitting slab insulation
above the ceiling, or letting the escaping heat warm the bedroom above?
It's only worth insulating the bedroom from the kitchen if you like /
really/ cold bedrooms.

Also, the house has not got cavity wall insulation,
Is there a cavity between the outer and the inner wall? If so, get it
filled - it's a no-brainer.

is there much
benefit.when comparing energy savings to installation costs, in fitting wall
insulation/plasterboard such as Kingspan K17/K18?

If you've got the wall stripped, then I would go and fit dry-lining
insulation. On the other hand, I'm a bit of a nut for extreme
insulation. If you are just looking to save money, then it's probably
not worth fitting insulation if you have filled the cavity (which will
be cheaper).

If you haven't got a cavity, then you should definitely dry line. (Of
course, the /better/ solution is to clad the /outside/ of the house,
so that the walls can act as thermal mass and slow down changes in
temperature.)

"Martin Bonner" wrote in message
...
On Mar 11, 8:35 pm, "Tony" wrote:
Hello,
We live in an end terrace built around 1900 with a stone outer wall and
brick inner.
I have currently got the kitchen totally gutted, including the ceiling
down
and quite a bit of loose plaster missing from walls.
At first I was intending patching up the missing plaster, re-boarding the
ceiling and having the whole lot skimmed.
I have now been wondering if there is any benefit to fitting slab
insulation
above the ceiling, or letting the escaping heat warm the bedroom above?
It's only worth insulating the bedroom from the kitchen if you like /
really/ cold bedrooms.

Also, the house has not got cavity wall insulation,
Is there a cavity between the outer and the inner wall? If so, get it
filled - it's a no-brainer.

is there much
benefit.when comparing energy savings to installation costs, in fitting
wall
insulation/plasterboard such as Kingspan K17/K18?

If you've got the wall stripped, then I would go and fit dry-lining
insulation. On the other hand, I'm a bit of a nut for extreme
insulation. If you are just looking to save money, then it's probably
not worth fitting insulation if you have filled the cavity (which will
be cheaper).

If you haven't got a cavity, then you should definitely dry line. (Of
course, the /better/ solution is to clad the /outside/ of the house,
so that the walls can act as thermal mass and slow down changes in
temperature.)
Hi,
Thanks for the replies.
The house has a cavity but I have been cautioned against getting cavity
insulation as it alows moisture to bridge from the stone layer through to
the inner brickwork.
Also, in the kitchen I have a solid floor, stone flags, bedded presumably
on hardcore/cinders or similar. I intend putting a water based underflor
heating system under the flags and having an exposed stone floor. Part of
the reason I am looking at insulation in the room is to help with the
warm-up time which I think will be longer with UFH than with the radiator I
currently have,(which SWMBO wants taking out to get furniture and units on
all walls).
Cheers,
Tony.

"Tony" wrote in message
o.uk...


Hi,
Thanks for the replies.
The house has a cavity but I have been cautioned against getting cavity
insulation as it alows moisture to bridge from the stone layer through to
the inner brickwork.

Who told you that?

We've had it for years and hzve been 100% satisfied with it on all counts.


Mary

Tony wrote:
"Martin Bonner" wrote in message
...
On Mar 11, 8:35 pm, "Tony" wrote:
Hello,
We live in an end terrace built around 1900 with a stone outer wall and
brick inner.
I have currently got the kitchen totally gutted, including the ceiling
down
and quite a bit of loose plaster missing from walls.
At first I was intending patching up the missing plaster, re-boarding the
ceiling and having the whole lot skimmed.
I have now been wondering if there is any benefit to fitting slab
insulation
above the ceiling, or letting the escaping heat warm the bedroom above?
It's only worth insulating the bedroom from the kitchen if you like /
really/ cold bedrooms.

Also, the house has not got cavity wall insulation,
Is there a cavity between the outer and the inner wall? If so, get it
filled - it's a no-brainer.

is there much
benefit.when comparing energy savings to installation costs, in fitting
wall
insulation/plasterboard such as Kingspan K17/K18?
If you've got the wall stripped, then I would go and fit dry-lining
insulation. On the other hand, I'm a bit of a nut for extreme
insulation. If you are just looking to save money, then it's probably
not worth fitting insulation if you have filled the cavity (which will
be cheaper).

If you haven't got a cavity, then you should definitely dry line. (Of
course, the /better/ solution is to clad the /outside/ of the house,
so that the walls can act as thermal mass and slow down changes in
temperature.)
Hi,
Thanks for the replies.
The house has a cavity but I have been cautioned against getting cavity
insulation as it alows moisture to bridge from the stone layer through to
the inner brickwork.
Also, in the kitchen I have a solid floor, stone flags, bedded presumably
on hardcore/cinders or similar. I intend putting a water based underflor
heating system under the flags and having an exposed stone floor. Part of
the reason I am looking at insulation in the room is to help with the
warm-up time which I think will be longer with UFH than with the radiator I
currently have,(which SWMBO wants taking out to get furniture and units on
all walls).
Cheers,
Tony.


Don't even THINK about UFH without insulation *under* the new floor.

Unless you want cosy earthworms and a cold kitchen, at huge expense./

On Mar 13, 12:45 pm, "Tony" wrote:
"Martin Bonner" wrote in message

...

On Mar 11, 8:35 pm, "Tony" wrote:
Hello,
We live in an end terrace built around 1900 with a stone outer wall and
brick inner.
I have currently got the kitchen totally gutted, including the ceiling
down
and quite a bit of loose plaster missing from walls.
At first I was intending patching up the missing plaster, re-boarding the
ceiling and having the whole lot skimmed.
I have now been wondering if there is any benefit to fitting slab
insulation
above the ceiling, or letting the escaping heat warm the bedroom above?
It's only worth insulating the bedroom from the kitchen if you like /
really/ cold bedrooms.

Also, the house has not got cavity wall insulation,
Is there a cavity between the outer and the inner wall? If so, get it
filled - it's a no-brainer.

is there much
benefit.when comparing energy savings to installation costs, in fitting
wall
insulation/plasterboard such as Kingspan K17/K18?

If you've got the wall stripped, then I would go and fit dry-lining
insulation. On the other hand, I'm a bit of a nut for extreme
insulation. If you are just looking to save money, then it's probably
not worth fitting insulation if you have filled the cavity (which will
be cheaper).

If you haven't got a cavity, then you should definitely dry line. (Of
course, the /better/ solution is to clad the /outside/ of the house,
so that the walls can act as thermal mass and slow down changes in
temperature.)

Hi,
Thanks for the replies.
The house has a cavity but I have been cautioned against getting cavity
insulation as it alows moisture to bridge from the stone layer through to
the inner brickwork.

I concur with Mary's response: Who told you that? If it was "a mate
in the pub", ignore them; if it was a building surveyor (or architect)
who has experience with buildings of similar construction, then they
probably know what they are talking about (but I am surprised).

Also, in the kitchen I have a solid floor, stone flags, bedded presumably
on hardcore/cinders or similar. I intend putting a water based underflor
heating system under the flags and having an exposed stone floor. Part of
the reason I am looking at insulation in the room is to help with the
warm-up time which I think will be longer with UFH than with the radiator I
currently have,(which SWMBO wants taking out to get furniture and units on
all walls).

Well with UFH under stone flags, I would expect a warm-up time so long
that you will (effectively) have to have it on all the time - in which
case insulation won't matter (apart from the small matter of the
staggering bills).

On 13 Mar, 13:49, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message

o.uk...



Hi,
Thanks for the replies.
The house has a cavity but I have been cautioned against getting cavity
insulation as it alows moisture to bridge from the stone layer through to
the inner brickwork.

Who told you that?

We've had it for years and hzve been 100% satisfied with it on all counts.

Mary

Dear All
It all depends on the insulation! The whole idea and purpose of the
cavity is to prevent water going from outer to inner leaf. So.....any
form of insulation that bridges this permanently in such a manner that
water can get thru is not appropriate. Ideally, as with most building
alterations, it is best to be reversible i.e. you can suck out the
insulation as in beading or rockwool blown fibres etc as opposed to PU
foam or the like which sets and that is it!
In other words - chose the right product and application method and
its fine to do
Chris

"Martin Bonner" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 12:45 pm, "Tony" wrote:
"Martin Bonner" wrote in message

...


I concur with Mary's response: Who told you that? If it was "a mate
in the pub", ignore them; if it was a building surveyor (or architect)
who has experience with buildings of similar construction, then they
probably know what they are talking about (but I am surprised).

At first it was a builder friend who, whilst discussing a damp patch which
was high up on a bedroom wall, explained that it was likely to be debris
bridging the cavity and allowing water to cross. He added thats a reason why
cavity wall insulation can cause damp problems.
Since then I have heard that more modern fill materials do not cause the
same problems, but when I contacted a firm with a view to getting the cavity
filled, they were not interested because of the age/construction of the
house.


Also, in the kitchen I have a solid floor, stone flags, bedded
presumably
on hardcore/cinders or similar. I intend putting a water based underflor
heating system under the flags and having an exposed stone floor. Part of
the reason I am looking at insulation in the room is to help with the
warm-up time which I think will be longer with UFH than with the radiator
I
currently have,(which SWMBO wants taking out to get furniture and units
on
all walls).

Well with UFH under stone flags, I would expect a warm-up time so long
that you will (effectively) have to have it on all the time - in which
case insulation won't matter (apart from the small matter of the
staggering bills).
Looking on the website of an UFH supplier, stone is apparently an excellent
medium for heat transfer, about the same as the screed over the pipes. They
recomend 60 to 100mm of thickness above the pipe and I would guess the
flags are 50 to 75mm thick.
I have to lift the flags for levelling, so while they are up I can dig out
150mm or so, to lay hardcore, insulation, UFH pipes and screed, before
re-laying the flags on what will have to be a continuous layer of cement
rather than spotting, to avoid cold areas.
I have thought about the warm-up time and might have to use a night
set-back control to drop the temperature a few degrees without cooling down
completely.
Cheers,
Tony.

my house just has slates,
no felt,
so there's always gonna be some water coming in.

In such a situation the dry gap between the 2 walls
to me seems to be of more use
letting the damp drip down the inside of the outside
than filling it with insulation along which the damp could get...

my distant cousins log cabin in finland
was very watertight
with 3 layers of kingspan/celotax,
and triple glazing..
http://www.dicegeorge.com/psb/psimg/...se2007-021.jpg



--

[george]

~ [g] ~
~ ~
~ 07970 378 572 ~
~ www.dicegeorge.com ~
~ (c)2008 ~
~ ~

"Tony" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Martin Bonner" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 12:45 pm, "Tony" wrote:
"Martin Bonner" wrote in message

...


I concur with Mary's response: Who told you that? If it was "a mate
in the pub", ignore them; if it was a building surveyor (or architect)
who has experience with buildings of similar construction, then they
probably know what they are talking about (but I am surprised).

At first it was a builder friend who, whilst discussing a damp patch which
was high up on a bedroom wall, explained that it was likely to be debris
bridging the cavity and allowing water to cross. He added thats a reason
why cavity wall insulation can cause damp problems.
Since then I have heard that more modern fill materials do not cause the
same problems, but when I contacted a firm with a view to getting the
cavity filled, they were not interested because of the age/construction of
the house.


Also, in the kitchen I have a solid floor, stone flags, bedded
presumably
on hardcore/cinders or similar. I intend putting a water based underflor
heating system under the flags and having an exposed stone floor. Part
of
the reason I am looking at insulation in the room is to help with the
warm-up time which I think will be longer with UFH than with the
radiator I
currently have,(which SWMBO wants taking out to get furniture and units
on
all walls).

Well with UFH under stone flags, I would expect a warm-up time so long
that you will (effectively) have to have it on all the time - in which
case insulation won't matter (apart from the small matter of the
staggering bills).
Looking on the website of an UFH supplier, stone is apparently an
excellent medium for heat transfer, about the same as the screed over the
pipes. They recomend 60 to 100mm of thickness above the pipe and I would
guess the flags are 50 to 75mm thick.
I have to lift the flags for levelling, so while they are up I can dig out
150mm or so, to lay hardcore, insulation, UFH pipes and screed, before
re-laying the flags on what will have to be a continuous layer of cement
rather than spotting, to avoid cold areas.
I have thought about the warm-up time and might have to use a night
set-back control to drop the temperature a few degrees without cooling
down completely.
Cheers,
Tony.

wrote:
On 13 Mar, 13:49, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message

o.uk...



Hi,
Thanks for the replies.
The house has a cavity but I have been cautioned against getting
cavity insulation as it alows moisture to bridge from the stone
layer through to the inner brickwork.

Who told you that?

We've had it for years and hzve been 100% satisfied with it on all
counts.

Mary

Dear All
It all depends on the insulation! The whole idea and purpose of the
cavity is to prevent water going from outer to inner leaf. So.....any
form of insulation that bridges this permanently in such a manner that
water can get thru is not appropriate. Ideally, as with most building
alterations, it is best to be reversible i.e. you can suck out the
insulation as in beading or rockwool blown fibres etc as opposed to PU
foam or the like which sets and that is it!
In other words - chose the right product and application method and
its fine to do


I share your concern. In our previous house, I had blown in mica which did
not cause a problem. Our current house which had blown in rockwool from new
did have problems with bridging, but whether that was due to initial
construction I'm unsure (was not able to be about when the issues were
resolved). The issue to me with blown in stuff is the collapse that occurs
when one wishes to make adjustments such as putting in a vent for a clothes
dryer or new gas boiler.