Got the edging and pipe in. Connection next weekend..

Some pics of the 3 circuits. For a newbie, how did I do?

Circuit 1; http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec1pj7.jpg
Circuit 2; http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec2cn0.jpg
Circuit 3; http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec3hz1.jpg

I did lay the 2&3 circuits different to my original plan, as it made
laying easier. The pump, thermostat and manifold are living under the
suspended floor in the living room, the cutout where the blue sleeves are
is now filled with polyurathane expanding foam, will carefully trim it off
tommorrow.

Plumbling it all up and pressure testing next weekend hopefully.

I have LOADS of 16mm pipe left. I might ebay it.. But how common is
16mm???

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On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:32:36 -0000, Mark Gillespie
wrote:


Last image did not work for some reason.

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec3ru0.jpg

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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mark Gillespie wrote:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:32:36 -0000, Mark Gillespie
wrote:


Last image did not work for some reason.

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec3ru0.jpg


All very interesting! I have absolutely no experience of UFH, but still find
it interesting. Presumably you're going to screed over it? How are the black
clips anchored to the Celotex?

I notice that the pipe density is a lot lower near the centre of each
circuit. Is this ususal, and can you rely on the conductivity of the screed
to distribute the heat evenly?
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On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:39:40 -0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mark Gillespie wrote:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:32:36 -0000, Mark Gillespie
wrote:


Last image did not work for some reason.

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec3ru0.jpg


All very interesting! I have absolutely no experience of UFH, but still
find
it interesting. Presumably you're going to screed over it?

Yep, 65mm of screed.

How are the
black
clips anchored to the Celotex?

The have splines of them and push in.


I notice that the pipe density is a lot lower near the centre of each
circuit. Is this ususal, and can you rely on the conductivity of the
screed
to distribute the heat evenly?

I hope so!!! The pipe is VERY stiff, and it's very tricky to get small
radius turns. This is best we could achieve!!!



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Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On 24 Feb, 12:54, "Mark Gillespie" wrote:
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:39:40 -0000, Roger Mills



wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mark Gillespie wrote:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:32:36 -0000, Mark Gillespie
wrote:

Last image did not work for some reason.

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec3ru0.jpg

All very interesting! I have absolutely no experience of UFH, but still
find
it interesting. Presumably you're going to screed over it?

Yep, 65mm of screed.

How are the

black
clips anchored to the Celotex?

The have splines of them and push in.



I notice that the pipe density is a lot lower near the centre of each
circuit. Is this ususal, and can you rely on the conductivity of the
screed
to distribute the heat evenly?

I hope so!!! The pipe is VERY stiff, and it's very tricky to get small
radius turns. This is best we could achieve!!!

I agree, it is very difficult. If I was doing my UFH system again, one
thing I'd do when comparing suppliers is to check the min bend radius
of their pipe.

I'm almost certain you will get a cold spot in the centre. I had a
smaller gap in one or two places on my floor, and you can feel it. I
guess your feet can feel a pretty small temperature difference. Still,
it's not really a problem as far as heating the room goes.

Jon.

Mark Gillespie wrote:
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:39:40 -0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mark Gillespie wrote:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:32:36 -0000, Mark Gillespie
wrote:


Last image did not work for some reason.

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec3ru0.jpg


All very interesting! I have absolutely no experience of UFH, but
still find
it interesting. Presumably you're going to screed over it?

Yep, 65mm of screed.

How are the
black
clips anchored to the Celotex?

The have splines of them and push in.


I notice that the pipe density is a lot lower near the centre of each
circuit. Is this ususal, and can you rely on the conductivity of the
screed
to distribute the heat evenly?

I hope so!!! The pipe is VERY stiff, and it's very tricky to get small
radius turns. This is best we could achieve!!!



You will definitely get hot and cool spots..but its better to have the
hotter sections at the room edge.

When I put levelling compound over mine, I could see where the pipe s
were..it dried out there..

FYI At around 60W/square meter in 75mm screed. the rate of increase of
temp of the slab and room is about 1 degree C per hour. One day I will
check that with the actual latent heat of concrete..

When my thermostat screwed up in January, it took several days of no
heating to drop the room temp to 13C overnight..

On 23 Feb, 23:32, "Mark Gillespie" wrote:

Some pics of the 3 circuits. *For a newbie, how did I do?
Good IMHO..

Plumbling it all up and pressure testing next weekend hopefully.

You probably know this, but just in case, you need to pressurize it,
ensure it's leak tight and keep it pressurized whilst pouring the
screed.

Conservatory? You sometimes can't get the required heat output from
UFH for buildings with high heat losses, while keeping the floor
temperature below the BS recommended maximum (37 degC ISTR).

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
FYI At around 60W/square meter in 75mm screed. the rate of increase of
temp of the slab and room is about 1 degree C per hour. One day I will
check that with the actual latent heat of concrete..

For which change of state? None of them are common in concrete.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. )***

"Autolycus" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
FYI At around 60W/square meter in 75mm screed. the rate of increase of
temp of the slab and room is about 1 degree C per hour. One day I will
check that with the actual latent heat of concrete..

For which change of state? None of them are common in concrete.


Yes, you're right, he definitely needs to be more Specific ;o)


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Autolycus" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
FYI At around 60W/square meter in 75mm screed. the rate of increase of
temp of the slab and room is about 1 degree C per hour. One day I will
check that with the actual latent heat of concrete..

For which change of state? None of them are common in concrete.


Yes, you're right, he definitely needs to be more Specific ;o)

(on a more factual OT note ~3350 J kg^-1 K^-1 for concrete)


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Autolycus" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
FYI At around 60W/square meter in 75mm screed. the rate of increase of
temp of the slab and room is about 1 degree C per hour. One day I will
check that with the actual latent heat of concrete..

For which change of state? None of them are common in concrete.


Yes, you're right, he definitely needs to be more Specific ;o)

(on a more factual OT note ~3350 J kg^-1 K^-1 for concrete)


So I would have said NP was out by a factor of up to two or three somewhere
(which isn't too bad for a guesstimate)

3350 is not far off the number of seconds in an hour, so we can say
(roughly) 1Wh (1W being 1J/s) should give a rise of 1degC in 1kg of
concrete.

1 metre square of 75mm concrete weighs about 180kg so you would need
180W/m^2 to raise its temperature by 1degC in an hour.
That's a factor of three but screed probably has a lower specific heat
capacity and density than concrete so say a factor of two out, then a
percentage of the mass is pipe anyway, so not far off!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Autolycus wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
FYI At around 60W/square meter in 75mm screed. the rate of increase of
temp of the slab and room is about 1 degree C per hour. One day I will
check that with the actual latent heat of concrete..

For which change of state? None of them are common in concrete.


Sorry. SPECIFIC heat... :-)

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Autolycus" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
FYI At around 60W/square meter in 75mm screed. the rate of increase of
temp of the slab and room is about 1 degree C per hour. One day I will
check that with the actual latent heat of concrete..

For which change of state? None of them are common in concrete.

Yes, you're right, he definitely needs to be more Specific ;o)

(on a more factual OT note ~3350 J kg^-1 K^-1 for concrete)


So how many watt hours per degree C per cu meter..?

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Autolycus" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
FYI At around 60W/square meter in 75mm screed. the rate of increase of
temp of the slab and room is about 1 degree C per hour. One day I will
check that with the actual latent heat of concrete..

For which change of state? None of them are common in concrete.

Yes, you're right, he definitely needs to be more Specific ;o)
(on a more factual OT note ~3350 J kg^-1 K^-1 for concrete)


So I would have said NP was out by a factor of up to two or three somewhere
(which isn't too bad for a guesstimate)

3350 is not far off the number of seconds in an hour, so we can say
(roughly) 1Wh (1W being 1J/s) should give a rise of 1degC in 1kg of
concrete.

1 metre square of 75mm concrete weighs about 180kg so you would need
180W/m^2 to raise its temperature by 1degC in an hour.
That's a factor of three but screed probably has a lower specific heat
capacity and density than concrete so say a factor of two out, then a
percentage of the mass is pipe anyway, so not far off!



Oh the *floor* warms up faster, but there's another 20 tons of iron and
steel and brick in the fireplace at least. Plus I remembered its 4" of
screed, not three..


Anyway, the time constants are very large.
It works very effectively in spring/autumn,when the daytime sunshine
really worms the whole place to the extent of not needing heating in the
evening at all. And inhigh summer by keeping the place cool in teh
afternoons.

Only winter demands an early switchon to be evening comfortable.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote:
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Autolycus" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
FYI At around 60W/square meter in 75mm screed. the rate of increase
of temp of the slab and room is about 1 degree C per hour. One day I
will check that with the actual latent heat of concrete..

For which change of state? None of them are common in concrete.

Yes, you're right, he definitely needs to be more Specific ;o)
(on a more factual OT note ~3350 J kg^-1 K^-1 for concrete)


So I would have said NP was out by a factor of up to two or three
somewhere (which isn't too bad for a guesstimate)

3350 is not far off the number of seconds in an hour, so we can say
(roughly) 1Wh (1W being 1J/s) should give a rise of 1degC in 1kg of
concrete.

1 metre square of 75mm concrete weighs about 180kg so you would need
180W/m^2 to raise its temperature by 1degC in an hour.
That's a factor of three but screed probably has a lower specific heat
capacity and density than concrete so say a factor of two out, then a
percentage of the mass is pipe anyway, so not far off!



Oh the *floor* warms up faster, but there's another 20 tons of iron and
steel and brick in the fireplace at least. Plus I remembered its 4" of
screed, not three..


Anyway, the time constants are very large.
It works very effectively in spring/autumn,when the daytime sunshine
really worms the whole place to the extent of not needing heating in the
evening at all. And inhigh summer by keeping the place cool in teh
afternoons.

Only winter demands an early switchon to be evening comfortable.

The figures are all approximate because of many factors as you suggest, plus
the figures for concrete will depend on how it's mixed, what aggregate is
used etc. The theory agrees with you figure well enough given the
approximations - it wasn't a factor of 10 out or anything!

Bob Mannix wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote:
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Autolycus" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
snip
FYI At around 60W/square meter in 75mm screed. the rate of increase
of temp of the slab and room is about 1 degree C per hour. One day I
will check that with the actual latent heat of concrete..

For which change of state? None of them are common in concrete.

Yes, you're right, he definitely needs to be more Specific ;o)
(on a more factual OT note ~3350 J kg^-1 K^-1 for concrete)

So I would have said NP was out by a factor of up to two or three
somewhere (which isn't too bad for a guesstimate)

3350 is not far off the number of seconds in an hour, so we can say
(roughly) 1Wh (1W being 1J/s) should give a rise of 1degC in 1kg of
concrete.

1 metre square of 75mm concrete weighs about 180kg so you would need
180W/m^2 to raise its temperature by 1degC in an hour.
That's a factor of three but screed probably has a lower specific heat
capacity and density than concrete so say a factor of two out, then a
percentage of the mass is pipe anyway, so not far off!


Oh the *floor* warms up faster, but there's another 20 tons of iron and
steel and brick in the fireplace at least. Plus I remembered its 4" of
screed, not three..


Anyway, the time constants are very large.
It works very effectively in spring/autumn,when the daytime sunshine
really worms the whole place to the extent of not needing heating in the
evening at all. And inhigh summer by keeping the place cool in teh
afternoons.

Only winter demands an early switchon to be evening comfortable.

The figures are all approximate because of many factors as you suggest, plus
the figures for concrete will depend on how it's mixed, what aggregate is
used etc. The theory agrees with you figure well enough given the
approximations - it wasn't a factor of 10 out or anything!


Well I simply sat and watched the digital stat strapped to the
fireplace...and was quite taken aback at how long it did take top get up
to temp.

Its set to 19 degrees, and generally overshoots one degree to 20C in
winter..but by then we are in there, and two people plus TV and a few
hundred watts of lighting generally keeps it above 19C until we go to bed..

The main point I wanted to make is that with this sort of arrangement,
you want to be on at 10 a.m. if you want it warm by 4pm..the actual
energy density of the pipes is only just enough to fully warm mine at
-5c outside..if it stays below zero all day and there is no sun, it has
to run 24x7 to keep up..