[Andrew May]

There was a short piece on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning
about an alternative to community service being tried in Derby. (About
five minutes from the end if anyone wants to listed again). There,
instead of setting offenders clearing gardens they are putting them
through training courses in things like DIY. There was a soundbite of
one of the instructors explaining wiring a plug. Went something like
'there are two wires brown and blue. The second letter of blue is L
so...' then cut to the presenter. Did he really mean that? The mind
boggles.

Andrew

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:04:21 +0000, Andrew May wrote:

There was a soundbite of one of the instructors explaining wiring a
plug. Went something like 'there are two wires brown and blue. The
second letter of blue is L so...' then cut to the presenter.

.... so it goes onto the Left terminal. The second letter of the other
wires is R so that goes to the right.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Andrew May wrote:
There was a short piece on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning
about an alternative to community service being tried in Derby. (About
five minutes from the end if anyone wants to listed again). There,
instead of setting offenders clearing gardens they are putting them
through training courses in things like DIY. There was a soundbite of
one of the instructors explaining wiring a plug. Went something like
'there are two wires brown and blue. The second letter of blue is L
so...' then cut to the presenter. Did he really mean that? The mind
boggles.

Yes - I heard that and wondered. 'L' from blue equals line? 'N' from brown
equals neutral? Bit of a worry. Could be 'L' equals left when working on
the plug, I suppose. But if someone doesn't know brown goes to the fuse
perhaps they should stick to clearing gardens.

--
*If PROGRESS is for advancement, what does that make CONGRESS mean?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Brian]

On Feb 7, 10:28*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
* *Andrew May wrote:

There was a short piece on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning
about an alternative to community service being tried in Derby. (About
five minutes from the end if anyone wants to listed again). There,
instead of setting offenders clearing gardens they are putting them
through training courses in things like DIY. There was a soundbite of
one of the instructors explaining wiring a plug. Went something like
'there are two wires brown and blue. The second letter of blue is L
so...' then cut to the presenter. Did he really mean that? The mind
boggles.

Yes - I heard that and wondered. 'L' from blue equals line? 'N' from brown
equals neutral? Bit of a worry. Could be 'L' equals left when working on
the plug, I suppose. But if someone doesn't know brown goes to the fuse
perhaps they should stick to clearing gardens.

What he would have said if the sound bite had not been so badly edited
was L for LEFT.
Blue goes to the left, Brown to the right. No point in going into Live
and neutral for idiots, far easier, and possibly more likely to be
understood, to say left and right.

[Brian]

On Feb 7, 10:04*am, Andrew May wrote:
There was a short piece on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning
about an alternative to community service being tried in Derby.

Bringing back the birch perhaps?

[[email protected]]

Andrew May wrote:

There was a short piece on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning
about an alternative to community service being tried in Derby. (About
five minutes from the end if anyone wants to listed again). There,
instead of setting offenders clearing gardens they are putting them
through training courses in things like DIY. There was a soundbite of
one of the instructors explaining wiring a plug. Went something like
'there are two wires brown and blue. The second letter of blue is L
so...' then cut to the presenter. Did he really mean that? The mind
boggles.

Andrew

so now if you want a free training course, go smash some windows
and you get it. Whats wrong with our society... is it just
our politicians so lost?


NT

[Andrew May]

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:04:21 +0000, Andrew May wrote:

There was a soundbite of one of the instructors explaining wiring a
plug. Went something like 'there are two wires brown and blue. The
second letter of blue is L so...' then cut to the presenter.

... so it goes onto the Left terminal. The second letter of the other
wires is R so that goes to the right.

Sounds plausible. But I'm flabbergasted. Surely even at that level the
difference between live and neutral shouldn't be too difficult to
comprehend. I am sure there are instances when the left/right rule
wouldn't work. Perhaps Part P is a good thing after all :-)

Andrew

[Mark]

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:04:21 +0000, Andrew May wrote:

There was a soundbite of one of the instructors explaining wiring a
plug. Went something like 'there are two wires brown and blue. The
second letter of blue is L so...' then cut to the presenter.

... so it goes onto the Left terminal. The second letter of the other
wires is R so that goes to the right.


Obviously an ex sailing instructor ;(

[TheOldFellow]

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 02:40:00 -0800 (PST)
Brian wrote:

On Feb 7, 10:04Â*am, Andrew May wrote:
There was a short piece on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning
about an alternative to community service being tried in Derby.

Bringing back the birch perhaps?

Nah, use Oak, much stronger for a gallows. Especially one that will
get a lot of use.

R.

[Roger Mills]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Brian wrote:


What he would have said if the sound bite had not been so badly edited
was L for LEFT.
Blue goes to the left, Brown to the right. No point in going into Live
and neutral for idiots, far easier, and possibly more likely to be
understood, to say left and right.

But what's left and what's right depends on which way round you're holding
the plug. If you hold it so that the cable comes in from the top . . .

And what about the earth wire - I haven't heard any mention of that?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

[[email protected]]

Andrew May wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:04:21 +0000, Andrew May wrote:

There was a soundbite of one of the instructors explaining wiring a
plug. Went something like 'there are two wires brown and blue. The
second letter of blue is L so...' then cut to the presenter.

... so it goes onto the Left terminal. The second letter of the other
wires is R so that goes to the right.

Sounds plausible. But I'm flabbergasted. Surely even at that level the
difference between live and neutral shouldn't be too difficult to
comprehend. I am sure there are instances when the left/right rule
wouldn't work. Perhaps Part P is a good thing after all :-)

Andrew

how many people that dont know L from N are going to know about
part p, and care?


NT

[jkn]

On Feb 7, 11:32 am, Andrew May wrote:
[...]
... so it goes onto the Left terminal. The second letter of the other
wires is R so that goes to the right.

Sounds plausible. But I'm flabbergasted. Surely even at that level the
difference between live and neutral shouldn't be too difficult to
comprehend. I am sure there are instances when the left/right rule
wouldn't work. Perhaps Part P is a good thing after all :-)

If they were teaching 'how to wire a plug' then this seems a perfectly
reasonable approach to me. I worked out this way of thinking about
wiring a plug myself, at the age of ten or so, when the flex colours
changed from red/black/green, and have been happy to teach it to
others since. When you're wiring a plug it's pretty damn obvious
'which way round' it should be - how many people wire a 3-pin plug
with the Earth pin towards them?

Learning which colour is live and which neutral is then a different
cognitive process, which not everybody has need of. I learned it by
remembering how a plug was wired and which colour went to the fuse.
Brown is not the most obvious colour for *Most Dangerous!* after all
(yes I know the reasons...)

J^n

[Andrew May]

wrote:
Andrew May wrote:

Sounds plausible. But I'm flabbergasted. Surely even at that level the
difference between live and neutral shouldn't be too difficult to
comprehend. I am sure there are instances when the left/right rule
wouldn't work. Perhaps Part P is a good thing after all :-)

Andrew

how many people that dont know L from N are going to know about
part p, and care?



How many people who do know L from N and do know about Part P care
(about part P)?

:-)

[nightjar]

"Brian" wrote in message
...
....
Blue goes to the left, Brown to the right. No point in going into Live
and neutral for idiots, far easier, and possibly more likely to be
understood, to say left and right.

The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot tell left
from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when she is driving
and he is map reading.

Colin Bignell

[John]

My Grandfather taught me this technique almost 40 years ago when I was 10.
Every time I wire a plug top he is 'sat' on my shoulder saying "Blue has an
L in it so it goes to the left, Brown has got an R in it so it goes to the
right, and IF you have one left over (Green or Green/Yellow) it can only go
in the other one". This also worked for the 'old' colours of black and red
and also if, for whatever reason, you wanted to put a plug top on T &E,
earth sleeved of course! As for the poster stating it depends on which way
you hold the plug when wiring it up, I am sure most (if not all) people
would have the wire entering from the bottom of the plug top, it is the
natural way to work surely.

It works for me, and I will pass this on to my two boys (8 & 5) when I feel
they are ready.

HTH

John

[Ed Sirett]

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:32:24 +0000, Andrew May wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:04:21 +0000, Andrew May wrote:

There was a soundbite of one of the instructors explaining wiring a
plug. Went something like 'there are two wires brown and blue. The
second letter of blue is L so...' then cut to the presenter.

... so it goes onto the Left terminal. The second letter of the other
wires is R so that goes to the right.

Sounds plausible. But I'm flabbergasted. Surely even at that level the
difference between live and neutral shouldn't be too difficult to
comprehend. I am sure there are instances when the left/right rule
wouldn't work. Perhaps Part P is a good thing after all :-)

Andrew

The Prat P does not govern plugs!


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

[Andy Burns[_3_]]

On 07/02/2008 10:37, Brian wrote:

Blue goes to the left, Brown to the right. No point in going into Live
and neutral for idiots

I'd rather idiots weren't wiring up plugs at all, especially if there's
any chance of them doing it for anyone else.

[Skipweasel]

In article 19d3f5c7-e20f-4225-9778-4b89c7c55de1
@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com, says...
If they were teaching 'how to wire a plug' then this seems a perfectly
reasonable approach to me.

Depends which way up you're holding the plug!

I taught my son to do plugs and explained that the dullest colour is the
one most likely to do you in. The second dullest is the second most
likely to do you in, and the most eye-catching is the least likely to
nobble you. He hasn't got it wrong yet (since he's only ten I still
check the plugs he does).

--
Skipweasel.
Never knowingly understood.

[Skipweasel]

In article , "nightjar"
cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk says...
The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot tell left
from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when she is driving
and he is map reading.


When I was an instructor I found that roughly a third of people don't
know their lefts from rights well enough to take directions given that
way.
Examiners are wise to this and will quickly swap to "Take the second
road on my side" or "At the roundabout, take the third exit, that's the
one leading off to your side", but the prefer it if the candidate comes
out with it up front at the start of the test.

--
Skipweasel.
Never knowingly understood.

[Roger Mills]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John wrote:

As for the poster stating it depends on which way you hold
the plug when wiring it up, I am sure most (if not all) people would
have the wire entering from the bottom of the plug top, it is the
natural way to work surely.
There are actually two of us now!

I agree that most reasonable people will hold it with the wire at the
bottom. *But* the very fact that you apparently need a rule like this means
that it needs to be foolproof for *everybody* - not just reasonable people -
and it ain't! If there's a way of misinterpreting it, some fool will do so
sooner or later.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

[Appin]

The message k
from Skipweasel contains these words:


I taught my son to do plugs and explained that the dullest colour is the
one most likely to do you in. The second dullest is the second most
likely to do you in, and the most eye-catching is the least likely to
nobble you. He hasn't got it wrong yet (since he's only ten I still
check the plugs he does).

Which works nicely (naturally, that's why they changed the standard
colours so that colour-blind people could sort out the wires accurately)
until he comes to an appliance with an old flex on it :-) (And not
all old flexes are iffy -- it might be a nice butyl one)

[Andy Hall]

On 2008-02-07 10:25:01 +0000, "Dave Liquorice"
said:

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:04:21 +0000, Andrew May wrote:

There was a soundbite of one of the instructors explaining wiring a
plug. Went something like 'there are two wires brown and blue. The
second letter of blue is L so...' then cut to the presenter.

... so it goes onto the Left terminal. The second letter of the other
wires is R so that goes to the right.

This is scary. It assumes that the miscreants can read and write and
spell their name - Knut.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
nightjar cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot tell
left from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when she is
driving and he is map reading.

Crikey. Wouldn't driver's side etc be easier? That's the way I know my
right from my left. ;-)

--
*Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[John Rumm]

Andrew May wrote:
wrote:
Andrew May wrote:

Sounds plausible. But I'm flabbergasted. Surely even at that level the
difference between live and neutral shouldn't be too difficult to
comprehend. I am sure there are instances when the left/right rule
wouldn't work. Perhaps Part P is a good thing after all :-)

Andrew

how many people that dont know L from N are going to know about
part p, and care?



How many people who do know L from N and do know about Part P care
(about part P)?

:-)

when it comes to wiring plugs and appliances in general part p has
nothing to do with it... (other than perhaps encouraging people who do
care about remaining within the letter of the law, to stick with
extension leads where remedial work on the fixed electrics would be
preferable).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Pete Verdon]

Skipweasel wrote:

I taught my son to do plugs [...] (since he's only ten I still
check the plugs he does).

Wow, Inky ten already? Doesn't time fly :-)

Pete

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 02:48:46 -0800 (PST), wrote:

There was a short piece on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning
about an alternative to community service being tried in Derby.

so now if you want a free training course, go smash some windows
and you get it. Whats wrong with our society...

Quite, the little (or not so little) beggers should get a good hiding and
if they are on benifits those are stopped until the cost of the repairs
has be recouped and passed to injured party. If they are in employment
their wages are passed on. They are only allowed to keep enough to pay
essential household bills (rates/rent, water & energy etc(*)) and
£2.50/day for food. You can get one hot meal for £2.50 without much
bother, might not be able to have anything else to eat but so what?
Shouldn't go around causing criminal damage...

(*) TV is not essential neither is the telephone particulary a mobile one.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[John]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nightjar cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot tell
left from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when she is
driving and he is map reading.

Crikey. Wouldn't driver's side etc be easier? That's the way I know my
right from my left. ;-)

Surely Offside and Nearside (*) is the correct terminology but that opens
up a whole new can of worms!!

Cheers

John

(*) for those that do not know, this refers to which side of the vehicle you
mean in relation to 'your' kerb when a vehicle is pointing the correct way
on a highway.

[Andy Hall]

On 2008-02-07 23:14:41 +0000, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
nightjar cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot tell
left from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when she is
driving and he is map reading.

Crikey. Wouldn't driver's side etc be easier? That's the way I know my
right from my left. ;-)

I'm not sure that it's that. According to the Archbishop of
Canterbury (that ever reliable source), we will inevitably be having
Sharia law. Extrapolating that, 'ring hand' and 'other hand' may
mean something different entirely.

[nightjar]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nightjar cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot tell
left from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when she is
driving and he is map reading.

Crikey. Wouldn't driver's side etc be easier? That's the way I know my
right from my left. ;-)

Probably too confusing, given that he has both left and right hand drive
cars. He tends to collect old VWs and Porsches and has imported at least one
unusual model from the USA.

Colin Bignell

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 23:14:41 UTC, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
nightjar cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot tell
left from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when she is
driving and he is map reading.

Crikey. Wouldn't driver's side etc be easier? That's the way I know my
right from my left. ;-)

I get SWMBO to say "your side" or "my side" - have done for 30 years.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[ARWadworth]

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47ab8128@qaanaaq...
On 2008-02-07 10:25:01 +0000, "Dave Liquorice"
said:

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:04:21 +0000, Andrew May wrote:

There was a soundbite of one of the instructors explaining wiring a
plug. Went something like 'there are two wires brown and blue. The
second letter of blue is L so...' then cut to the presenter.

... so it goes onto the Left terminal. The second letter of the other
wires is R so that goes to the right.

This is scary. It assumes that the miscreants can read and write and
spell their name - Knut.



I bet they could teach the instructor few things about car ignition wiring
on a Ford or Vauxhall.

Adam

[whisky-dave]

"Andrew May" wrote in message
...
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:04:21 +0000, Andrew May wrote:

There was a soundbite of one of the instructors explaining wiring a
plug. Went something like 'there are two wires brown and blue. The
second letter of blue is L so...' then cut to the presenter.

... so it goes onto the Left terminal. The second letter of the other
wires is R so that goes to the right.

Sounds plausible. But I'm flabbergasted. Surely even at that level the
difference between live and neutral shouldn't be too difficult to
comprehend.

I am sure there are instances when the left/right rule wouldn't work

I would be worried to be employing someone that could only tell live and
neutral
in that sort of way, lets hope they don't employ a mild dyslexic who has
problems
telling left from right, or is holding the plug upside down.

[whisky-dave]

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John wrote:

As for the poster stating it depends on which way you hold
the plug when wiring it up, I am sure most (if not all) people would
have the wire entering from the bottom of the plug top, it is the
natural way to work surely.
There are actually two of us now!

And me, wired a plug upside down when it was a safelight in a darkroom the
light was up high and the plug leade short.


I agree that most reasonable people will hold it with the wire at the
bottom.

It's hard to imagine reasonable people doing community service ;-)
Or did they just forget to pay the library fines for late book returns.

[Paul Herber]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:59:36 -0000, "whisky-dave"
wrote:

It's hard to imagine reasonable people doing community service ;-)
Or did they just forget to pay the library fines for late book returns.

It's hard to imagine people in prison for what they ate at Heathrow or
for was found in the tread of their shoes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7234786.stm


--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd.
http://www.sandrila.co.uk/ http://www.pherber.com/

[Dave]

nightjar cpb@ wrote:
"Brian" wrote in message
...
...

Blue goes to the left, Brown to the right. No point in going into Live
and neutral for idiots, far easier, and possibly more likely to be
understood, to say left and right.


The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot tell left
from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when she is driving
and he is map reading.

Nice to know that I am not on my own with this problem.

My wife often tells me to turn left and points right :-(

Dave

[Bob Eager]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:28:08 UTC, Dave wrote:

nightjar cpb@ wrote:
"Brian" wrote in message
...
...

Blue goes to the left, Brown to the right. No point in going into Live
and neutral for idiots, far easier, and possibly more likely to be
understood, to say left and right.


The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot tell left
from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when she is driving
and he is map reading.

Nice to know that I am not on my own with this problem.

My wife often tells me to turn left and points right :-(

BTDTGTTS!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

[Skipweasel]

In article ,
lid says...
Wow, Inky ten already? Doesn't time fly :-)

Eleven in the summer. Aargh.

--
Skipweasel.
Never knowingly understood.

[geoff]

In message , Dave
writes
nightjar cpb@ wrote:
"Brian" wrote in message
...
...

Blue goes to the left, Brown to the right. No point in going into
Live
and neutral for idiots, far easier, and possibly more likely to be
understood, to say left and right.
The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot
tell left from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when
she is driving and he is map reading.

Nice to know that I am not on my own with this problem.

My wife often tells me to turn left and points right :-(

When I lived in Indonesia, I needed my servant to navigate to somewhere

roughly translated ...

"Which way?"
"turn"
"Left or Right?"
"turn"
"Left or right?"
"Doh - turn around"

.... "Which way?"
"turn ..."

You think you have problems





--
geoff

[Mark]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 01:02:10 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2008-02-07 23:14:41 +0000, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
nightjar cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk wrote:
The wife of a friend, far from an idiot in other matters, cannot tell
left from right. He has to say 'ring hand' or 'other hand' when she is
driving and he is map reading.

Crikey. Wouldn't driver's side etc be easier? That's the way I know my
right from my left. ;-)

I'm not sure that it's that. According to the Archbishop of
Canterbury (that ever reliable source), we will inevitably be having
Sharia law. Extrapolating that, 'ring hand' and 'other hand' may
mean something different entirely.

It could be even more difficult for thieves.

M.

[Mark]

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:51:11 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 02:48:46 -0800 (PST), wrote:

There was a short piece on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning
about an alternative to community service being tried in Derby.

so now if you want a free training course, go smash some windows
and you get it. Whats wrong with our society...

Quite, the little (or not so little) beggers should get a good hiding and
if they are on benifits those are stopped until the cost of the repairs
has be recouped and passed to injured party.

So they'll nick more stuff to pay the fines?

M.