After a bit of firkling around with Myson & Kudox radiator output specs I
found a formula which gives a reasonable approximation so one can
calculate output from dimensions (and v.v.)

Heat Output = (Height + 12) * Length * FACTOR
(Watts) (cm) (cm)

where FACTOR is (for Delta-T 50°C)

* 0.13 for SC
* 0.19 for DP
* 0.24 for DC

See
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ting_Radiators

It might be useful[1] to be able to calculate the output of old-fashioned
radiators without convection fins. Anyone have any data sheets on these?


[1] or at least, marginally interesting :-)

--
John Stumbles

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous

The message
from John Stumbles contains these words:

It might be useful[1] to be able to calculate the output of old-fashioned
radiators without convection fins. Anyone have any data sheets on these?

As I mentioned in another thread recently I have some documentation from
Ravensbourne Heating. The older catalogue (which I think dates to the
mid 70s) has data on radiators from Stelrad, Potterton, International,
Harcal and even Finrad. The later catalogue (circa 1988) is a much
thinner affair with Barlo as the only standard radiator offering. Heat
output in both cases is in btus/hour.

To go off on something of a tangent while flicking through some of the
rubbish I have accumulated over the years I came across a leaflet for
the Trisave condensing boiler which, unlike all the other stuff I have
retained, was actually dated - February 1989.

IIRC Trisave was the first condensing boiler on the British market and
was (in retrospect) notoriously unreliable. It was (perhaps thankfully)
no longer available when I came to replace my gas boiler a couple of
years later so I ended up fitting a conventional fanned flue model which
is still working well.

--
Roger Chapman

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Stumbles wrote:

After a bit of firkling around with Myson & Kudox radiator output
specs I found a formula which gives a reasonable approximation so one
can calculate output from dimensions (and v.v.)

Heat Output = (Height + 12) * Length * FACTOR
(Watts) (cm) (cm)

where FACTOR is (for Delta-T 50°C)

* 0.13 for SC
* 0.19 for DP
* 0.24 for DC

See
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ting_Radiators

It might be useful[1] to be able to calculate the output of
old-fashioned radiators without convection fins. Anyone have any data
sheets on these?


[1] or at least, marginally interesting :-)


It is certainly useful to be able to estimate the output of existing
(obsolescent) radiators - and the question is often asked here by those who
are re-jigging their central heating systems, or just doing a sanity check
on what they've got.

I don't still have the catalogues which I used back in the late 60's - but I
have still got my calculations, from which I developed my own formula -
having converted from imperial to metric units. The figues which I use - at
a Delta-T of 60 degC a
Single Panel: 1280 watts/M^2
Double Panel: 2170 watts/M^2

This would equate to 1020 and 1730 respecively at a Delta-T of 50 degC.

This would be 0.102 and 0.173 watts/cm^2 to compare with your 'factors' -
except that my calculations just take the projected area without adding
anything to the height. What is the rationale of your +12 bit?

What sort of radiator is your 'DC'?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:21:16 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

This would be 0.102 and 0.173 watts/cm^2 to compare with your 'factors'
- except that my calculations just take the projected area without
adding anything to the height. What is the rationale of your +12 bit?

Looking at the Myson & Kudox specs it was apparent that their outputs were
not linearly related to heights, so that a 600mm high rad was less than
twice the output of a 300. I didn't plot the values but I'd guess it's a
curve of some sort. Approximating it to an offset as I've done gives a
pretty good agreement with the published values.

Intuitively it makes sense that doubling the height wouldn't double the
output: since 'radiators' are actually convectors then a greater
quantity of warm air has to come off a taller rad, so I'd expect greater
resistance from the surrounding air.

What sort of heights were the rads you arrived at your figures for?

What sort of radiator is your 'DC'?

Double Convector - like 2 single convectors sandwiched together. Explained
in the wiki article (tsk!, you haven't read it? :-))


--
John Stumbles

Procrastinate now!

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:55:33 +0000, Roger wrote:

As I mentioned in another thread recently I have some documentation from

I recalled such a discussion but couldn't remember anything else about the
thread!

Ravensbourne Heating. The older catalogue (which I think dates to the
mid 70s) has data on radiators from Stelrad, Potterton, International,
Harcal and even Finrad. The later catalogue (circa 1988) is a much
thinner affair with Barlo as the only standard radiator offering. Heat
output in both cases is in btus/hour.

Any chance of a scan of some of the specs?

--
John Stumbles

I forgot to take my amnesia medecine again

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Stumbles wrote:


What sort of heights were the rads you arrived at your figures for?


They were all either 24" or 30" high.

Looking at some modern catalogues, it looks as if *very* low radiators (e.g.
300 high) punch above their weight in heat output terms but - although I
haven't done the sums in detail - my impression is that, once you get above
a certain height, the output is linear. So my formula probably gives
pessimistic results for low rads.


What sort of radiator is your 'DC'?

Double Convector - like 2 single convectors sandwiched together.
Explained in the wiki article (tsk!, you haven't read it? :-))

Mea Culpa! On reading the Wiki item and looking again at your previous post,
it seems that I misunderstood what you initially said. When you said it
might be useful to calculate the output of old unfinned rads, I initially
thought that you were offering that as the reason for the figures you had
quoted - which I had assumed to apply to unfinned rads. I now realise that
you were suggesting looking at unfinned rads *in_addition* to what you had
quoted. The figures I gave *were* for unfinned.



Having cleared that up, my complete list - with outputs in Watts/M^2 is:

TYPE Output at Delta-T=60
Output at Delta-T=50
Single unfinned 1280
1021
Single finned 2020
1612
Double unfinned 2170
1732
Double with single fins 2790
2226
Double with double fins 3575
2853

--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

The message
from John Stumbles contains these words:


As I mentioned in another thread recently I have some documentation from

I recalled such a discussion but couldn't remember anything else about the
thread!

Ravensbourne Heating. The older catalogue (which I think dates to the
mid 70s) has data on radiators from Stelrad, Potterton, International,
Harcal and even Finrad. The later catalogue (circa 1988) is a much
thinner affair with Barlo as the only standard radiator offering. Heat
output in both cases is in btus/hour.

Any chance of a scan of some of the specs?

I will see what I can do. Is you address genuine?

--
Roger Chapman

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:13:15 +0000, Roger wrote:

I will see what I can do. Is you address genuine?

Yup. Just don't put V14GR4 in the subject line ;-)

--
John Stumbles

I'm less competitive than you

The message
from John Stumbles contains these words:

I will see what I can do. Is you address genuine?

Yup. Just don't put V14GR4 in the subject line ;-)

You have mail.

This just in case it doesn't get through.

--
Roger Chapman

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:32:55 GMT, John Stumbles
wrote:

It might be useful[1] to be able to calculate the output of old-fashioned
radiators without convection fins. Anyone have any data sheets on these?

Sent you an email with a url of some zipped scans on Stelrad units circa 1979
including a couple of graphs.

Geo