"Si" $3o&m wrote in message
...
In message , Dave
writes
Mike Dodd wrote:
Colin Wilson wrote:

Why do women (2 daughters and wife) insist on leaving windows open?
With the heating full blast cus its cold?? Then complains its cold
and turns up the heating rather than check windows are closed!

Take the fuse out on the boiler, and see how long it takes them to
check the windows are shut - I reckon it'll take less than 30 minute
:-p
Problem is... it'd take only 10 minutes for the whine... "Steve!,....
the boiler's not working...."

Not if Steve had gone out for a while and switched his mobile off ;-)

Steve would then return to find the most expensive rogue-traders in Yellow
pages providing their 'best' quotes for the absolutely essential
replacement of the faulty & underpowered boiler.

--
Si

Yep, and I'd have to pay for it to be fitted the same day!

Steve

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:19:35 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
snip

I have semi-solved the problem though. I tried to train my sheepdog to
push the excluder back....but he kind of missed the point and took to
lying down at the door. Result!

I saw a highly clever draught excluder in someones house recently. Two
tubes, each the width of the door joined by a strip of fabric.

O_______O

It moved with the opening & closing of the door.

Nice idea! Problem with that, for me, is that there's a batten the
other side of the door...so unless I can modify the outer sausage to
lift as the door closes...

But then why bother, when I can call upon the incredible, awesome
powers of.....Envirodog!!

http://www.zen145856.zen.co.uk/doordog.htm

Next job is to train him to turn off lights without scratching the
walls and to make a better cup of tea...

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Mr Sandman" wrote in message
...
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...
"Mr Sandman" wrote in message
...
...
I have the same problems with my wife. If im away for the day, i come
back to a house with all the TRVs turned up full . She still cant grasp
why the kitchen rad is cool when the living room rad is hot!
So explain it to her!

Mary

i have! so many times!

Not well enough!


I tried putting her in detention for inattention, but that didn't work.


Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Appin" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mr Sandman" contains these words:


I have the same problems with my wife. If im away for the day, i come
back
to a house with all the TRVs turned up full . She still cant grasp why
the
kitchen rad is cool when the living room rad is hot!
Women in general haven't a clue what a thermostat is.

That's a silly thing to say.

But all our TRVs
in this house, have upper and lower limit stops which can be set to
prevent the rad being turned down too low or up too high. Or can be
used to lock the head at any point in its range. Problem solved as far
as the TRVs are concerned. The open windows are another story and I
haven't got the answer to that one. Yet.

There's no point in complaining unless you're prepared to do something about
it. If you can't be bothered don't grumble.


The answer is nuclear energy.
Or divorce.
Mary

In message , Mr Sandman
writes
Why do women (2 daughters and wife) insist on leaving windows open? With
the heating full blast cus its cold?? Then complains its cold and turns up
the heating rather than check windows are closed!

Any ideas on a gadget that turns the CH off if windows are open?


The 'forgotten what it's called' wireless stat and rad valve system from
Honeywell, claims to sense when the windows has been opened and to not
open the valve
--
Chris French

"Dave" wrote in message
...


... I have to get a needle and thread to put my neck back together
again :-(


You mean you can SEW???

But that's women's work ...

I can use a sewing machine like an expert. (I was trained as a fitter, so
I know how things have to go together.)

It was tongue in cheek :-) In our house Spouse does all the machine sewing
(I can but don't enjoy it and he does). I do all the hand sewing (he can
etc. )

My point really was that there are some very silly attitudes to what is
men's and women's work. And some even sillier generalisations - which have
been expressed in this thread. I was delighted when we went to a place
which made camping equipment. In the sewing room great hairy bikers with
extravagant hairstyles and baldstyles were sitting at large industrial
machines, surrounded by girlie calendars and pictures of Big Black Bikes.
There were also polite and helpful, I've learned by several similar
incidents that judgements based on appearance and gender say more about the
judge than the judged.

Due to my childhood asthma, (my mother taught me all this) I can knit,
chroche, sew and use a sewing machine.

I think you mean crochet - that's not a criticism - but yes, so can Spouse,
ALL our children and grandchildren. there are more males than females in
that number.

A son who went into the RAF was amazed when he started his first training,
he was the only cadet who could iron his shirts and press his trousers. Even
the girls couldn't. It's a dis-service to our children not to teach them the
basics of Real Life. We made sure that by the time they were eight ours
could do everything to survive - sewing, washing, cooking, breadmaking,
cutting wood, drilling holes etc. We told them it was so that if we died
they'd be able to look after themselves and not have to depend on others. It
stood them in good stead.

So saying, he's just come in and asked if I knew where there's a spare anti
surge gizmo. When I looked blank he commented that it was his department ...
how are the mighty fallen :-)

Not too long ago I made some stretch covers for our modular settee.

Whatever turns you on :-)

We've done all our own upholstery, so that we get what we want and not what
designers think we ought to have (and which thousands of other people have).

This IS a DIY group after all, we should be able to have exactly what we
want by making it ourselves.

One thing I can not do, is to turn up a pair of trousers. I don't have
that light touch to pick up the outer threads of the trousers, so it is
not obvious outside of the leg :-(

You should use a herringbone stitch. Or iron-on Vilene - the cheat's way but
an excellent one. I used it very frequently when our children were at
school.

Mary

In article chris French
wrote:

The 'forgotten what it's called' wireless stat and rad valve system from
Honeywell, claims to sense when the windows has been opened and to not
open the valve

CM-zone.

Apparently it's designed to recognise sudden drops in temperature and assume
they're due to a door or window being opened. I think it only applies the
cutout for a limited time though and I'm not sure if it actually cuts the
heat or just refuses to increase it.

--
Mike Clarke

On 14 Jan, 17:38, robgraham wrote:
On 14 Jan, 17:13, "Mary Fisher" wrote:





"Mike Dodd" wrote in message

...

Mr Sandman wrote:
Why do women (2 daughters and wife) insist on leaving windows open? *With
the heating full blast cus its cold?? *Then complains its cold and turns
up the heating rather than check windows are closed!

Any ideas on a gadget that turns the CH off if windows are open?

Steve

Or lights that turn themselves off.

In my single days, I laughed once, returned from a business trip abroad
with a colleague when, directing the taxi late one Friday night, he said
"that house over there, the one with all the lights blazing."

Now that I'm married, and still have the occasional business trip, I use
pretty much the same description.

When quizzed, "oh, the house feels more lived in with the lights on, when
you're away".

Bloody women.

In our house it's the other way round. Grand daughter and I turn lights off
when we leave a room unless it's occupied. Guess who leaves them on?

Right in one. Spouse.

Mary

Short of carrying out a poll on this topic, I'm afraid, Mary, that my
vote goes with it being a trait of the ladies.

I transferred the phone bill some years ago to my good lady and I
think I should do the same with the heating and electricity bills -
I'm sure I would take it in good grace any comment about the workshop
light being on unlike the abuse I get when I complain about the
bathroom light being left on AGAIN ! *Rant over !

Rob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Surely everyone in the whole wide world dislikes a sweeping statement?

Right, back to thinking about kittens....

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
...



... I have to get a needle and thread to put my neck back together
again :-(


You mean you can SEW???

But that's women's work ...

I can use a sewing machine like an expert. (I was trained as a fitter, so
I know how things have to go together.)


It was tongue in cheek :-)

Don't worry, I don't take offence easily :-)

In our house Spouse does all the machine sewing
(I can but don't enjoy it and he does). I do all the hand sewing (he can
etc. )

So I am not on my own then.

My point really was that there are some very silly attitudes to what is
men's and women's work. And some even sillier generalisations - which have
been expressed in this thread. I was delighted when we went to a place
which made camping equipment. In the sewing room great hairy bikers with
extravagant hairstyles and baldstyles were sitting at large industrial
machines, surrounded by girlie calendars and pictures of Big Black Bikes.
There were also polite and helpful, I've learned by several similar
incidents that judgements based on appearance and gender say more about the
judge than the judged.

A long time ago, I learned what you have just said. A lot of these hairy
bikers reveal themselves as pussycats when you get to know them. I think
the image of toughness came across the Atlantic from the days of the
Hells Angels.

I think you mean crochet - that's not a criticism - but yes, so can Spouse,

Point taken. My inability to spell is down to the fact that I spent as
much time at home, as I did at school. My spelling is improving with the
teacher that I have now. It is built into my text services on the
computer. Its called a spell checker :-)


A son who went into the RAF was amazed when he started his first training,
he was the only cadet who could iron his shirts and press his trousers. Even
the girls couldn't.

We had the same situation with our son, when he joined the navy. He was
the only one to do that ironing. He was also the only one to put up a
tent on excersises. The only problem was he didn't get the training he
was supposed to get (HMS Invincible) and left the navy in disgust about
8 years later.

It's a dis-service to our children not to teach them the
basics of Real Life.

Agreed. My mother told me to how to do various things that have stood me
in good stead. My wife is going to Australia for 3 months soon, so all I
have been taught will keep me going

We made sure that by the time they were eight ours
could do everything to survive - sewing, washing, cooking, breadmaking,
cutting wood, drilling holes etc.

Talking about drilling. As I said earlier, our son worked on a ship as
an electrician. I was down at his house (this is where we get back onto
DIY) moving some light switches. The were placed behind the door when
you entered the room.
I punched a brad awl from below to the roof space to let him know where
the edge of the wall was and advised him to drill so many mm away from
it. He unfortunately got it wrong.

I only found out when he asked for a longer drill. I assumed that he had
hit a noggin and needed to drill deeper than I expected. When he said
that he had run out of depth, I passed him a 300 mm long drill. He had
only managed to drill straight down and parallel to the face of the
plasterboard wall that I realized what was going on.
For a novice that it un-believable.

As a life longer driller of holes, I doubt that I could have done that.

Dave

In article ,
"Mr Sandman" writes:
Why do women (2 daughters and wife) insist on leaving windows open? With
the heating full blast cus its cold?? Then complains its cold and turns up
the heating rather than check windows are closed!

Any ideas on a gadget that turns the CH off if windows are open?

I could easily program my home automation to do it -- it already
does if the back or front doors are open for more than a minute.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Dave" wrote in message
...

Thanks for your interesting post.

As a life longer driller of holes, I doubt that I could have done that.

Spouse won't let me hold an electric drill, he says I get power mad. There
do seem to be a lot of (old) holes in the dining room floor from the last
time I got one in my mitts.

Mary

"Lino expert" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan, 17:38, robgraham wrote:
On 14 Jan, 17:13, "Mary Fisher" wrote:





"Mike Dodd" wrote in message

...

Mr Sandman wrote:
Why do women (2 daughters and wife) insist on leaving windows open?
With
the heating full blast cus its cold?? Then complains its cold and
turns
up the heating rather than check windows are closed!

Any ideas on a gadget that turns the CH off if windows are open?

Steve

Or lights that turn themselves off.

In my single days, I laughed once, returned from a business trip
abroad
with a colleague when, directing the taxi late one Friday night, he
said
"that house over there, the one with all the lights blazing."

Now that I'm married, and still have the occasional business trip, I
use
pretty much the same description.

When quizzed, "oh, the house feels more lived in with the lights on,
when
you're away".

Bloody women.

In our house it's the other way round. Grand daughter and I turn lights
off
when we leave a room unless it's occupied. Guess who leaves them on?

Right in one. Spouse.

Mary

Short of carrying out a poll on this topic, I'm afraid, Mary, that my
vote goes with it being a trait of the ladies.

I transferred the phone bill some years ago to my good lady and I
think I should do the same with the heating and electricity bills -
I'm sure I would take it in good grace any comment about the workshop
light being on unlike the abuse I get when I complain about the
bathroom light being left on AGAIN ! Rant over !

Rob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Surely everyone in the whole wide world dislikes a sweeping statement?

I've said a million times that one shouldn't exaggerate.

Right, back to thinking about kittens....

Bleurch. Leather (pre-war hide, not your WoL soft stuff) shredders :-(

Mary

On Jan 16, 11:36*am, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
"Lino expert" wrote in message

...
On 14 Jan, 17:38, robgraham wrote:





On 14 Jan, 17:13, "Mary Fisher" wrote:

"Mike Dodd" wrote in message

...

Mr Sandman wrote:
Why do women (2 daughters and wife) insist on leaving windows open?
With
the heating full blast cus its cold?? Then complains its cold and
turns
up the heating rather than check windows are closed!

Any ideas on a gadget that turns the CH off if windows are open?

Steve

Or lights that turn themselves off.

In my single days, I laughed once, returned from a business trip
abroad
with a colleague when, directing the taxi late one Friday night, he
said
"that house over there, the one with all the lights blazing."

Now that I'm married, and still have the occasional business trip, I
use
pretty much the same description.

When quizzed, "oh, the house feels more lived in with the lights on,
when
you're away".

Bloody women.

In our house it's the other way round. Grand daughter and I turn lights
off
when we leave a room unless it's occupied. Guess who leaves them on?

Right in one. Spouse.

Mary

Short of carrying out a poll on this topic, I'm afraid, Mary, that my
vote goes with it being a trait of the ladies.

I transferred the phone bill some years ago to my good lady and I
think I should do the same with the heating and electricity bills -
I'm sure I would take it in good grace any comment about the workshop
light being on unlike the abuse I get when I complain about the
bathroom light being left on AGAIN ! Rant over !

Rob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Surely everyone in the whole wide world dislikes a sweeping statement?

I've said a million times that one shouldn't exaggerate.

Right, back to thinking about kittens....

Bleurch. Leather (pre-war hide, not your WoL soft stuff) shredders :-(

Mary- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not allowed to think about leather, it gets me in to trouble and
they try to withdraw my privileges...

"Mr Sandman" wrote in message
...
Why do women (2 daughters and wife) insist on leaving windows open? With
the heating full blast cus its cold?? Then complains its cold and turns
up the heating rather than check windows are closed!

Any ideas on a gadget that turns the CH off if windows are open?

Steve


Lock 'em and hide the key ?

"Lino expert" wrote in message
news:83fe7774-ca13-4523-8268-

....

I'm not allowed to think about leather, it gets me in to trouble and
they try to withdraw my privileges...

Is lino an acceptable substitute?

Mary

On 16 Jan, 15:20, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
"Lino expert" wrote in message

news:83fe7774-ca13-4523-8268-

...

I'm not allowed to think about leather, it gets me in to trouble and
they try to withdraw my privileges...

Is lino an acceptable substitute?

Mary

Is it heck as like, there IS only one substitute...but that cannot be
named *swirls cape*...

"Lino expert" wrote in message
...
On 16 Jan, 15:20, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
"Lino expert" wrote in message

news:83fe7774-ca13-4523-8268-

...

I'm not allowed to think about leather, it gets me in to trouble and
they try to withdraw my privileges...

Is lino an acceptable substitute?

Mary

Is it heck as like, there IS only one substitute...but that cannot be
named *swirls cape*...

Oooooooooooooooooooooo :-)

Mary

Dave wrote:

Point taken. My inability to spell is down to the fact that I spent as
much time at home, as I did at school. My spelling is improving with the
teacher that I have now. It is built into my text services on the
computer. Its called a spell checker :-)


Ah, a spiel chucker. Wonder if I can find that poem...

Owed to a Spell Chequer

I halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plane lee marques four my revue
Miss steaks aye ken knot sea

Eye ran this poem threw it
Your sure reel glad two no
It's vary polished in it's weigh
My chequer tolled me sew

A chequer is a bless sing
It freeze yew lodes of thyme
It helps me awl stiles two reed
And aides mi when aye rime

To rite with care is quite a feet
Of witch won should be proud
And wee mussed dew the best wee can
Sew flaws are knot aloud
And now bee cause my spelling
is checked with such grate flare
Their are know faults with in my cite
Of nun eye am a wear
Each frays come posed up on my screen
Eye trussed to be a joule
The chequer poured o'er every word
To cheque sum spelling rule
That's why aye brake in two averse
My righting wants too pleas
Sow now ewe sea wye aye dew prays
Such soft wear for pea seas

I notice that mine has flagged "chucker", "mussed" and "wye". I suppose
the last is a proper name. I did see something that pointed out you
don't want all possible words in it - for example, when you type baht
you probably mis-typed "bath" and are not referring to the currency of
Thailand.

Andy

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

Problem solved as far
as the TRVs are concerned. The open windows are another story and I
haven't got the answer to that one. Yet.

There's no point in complaining unless you're prepared to do something
about
it. If you can't be bothered don't grumble.

I reckon it's something very basic indeed in the female psyche. She not
"girly" in most things and she can grow a better moustache than many
men, but she still can't see the relationship between windows and doors
being open and wasting fuel.

"Appin" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

Problem solved as far
as the TRVs are concerned. The open windows are another story and I
haven't got the answer to that one. Yet.

There's no point in complaining unless you're prepared to do something
about
it. If you can't be bothered don't grumble.

I reckon it's something very basic indeed in the female psyche. She not
"girly" in most things and she can grow a better moustache than many
men, but she still can't see the relationship between windows and doors
being open and wasting fuel.

I reckon that it must be something in your psyche, not being able to explain
your problem.

Mary

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:


I reckon that it must be something in your psyche, not being able to
explain
your problem.

I think you're missing the point.

1. Break-on- rise thermostats have been common in domestic applications
for many decades

2. Use of tbermostats is a fairly low-level skill important for making
use of many basic domestic appliances and other equipment

3. It should not require my intervention to explain the function or
practical use of a thermostat, so my ability or otherwise to explain how
to use one shouldn't have to come into the question anyway

4. Difficulty in understanding thermostat function seems to be much
more common in females than in males

5. The female I selected to illustrate the problem is not a very
"girly" type. The fact that from puberty she's had moustache growth
heavier than many males should indicate that she's more likely than most
females to have a brain which has developed along lines closer to a
male, testosterone-influenced, brain

6. In spite of the testosterone influence she still can't make any
practical sense of the operation of a thermostat. There would appear to
be a reasoning problem of some sort which affects not just many females,
but even those whose brains one might have expected to be somewhat more
male-like in reasoning processes.

"Appin" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

You seem to be linking a moustache with understanding.

Hmm.

Mary

On 18 Jan, 11:44, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
"Appin" wrote in message

... The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

You seem to be linking a moustache with understanding.

Hmm.

Mary

Who could deny the obvious, all-encompassing knowledge possessed by
The Chuckle Brothers.

Anyway, basically surely the fact is that some women understand the
concept, some don't, some men understand the concept, some don't...as
is the case in many things.

Ommmmm.

"Lino expert" wrote in message
...
On 18 Jan, 11:44, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
"Appin" wrote in message

... The message

from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

You seem to be linking a moustache with understanding.

Hmm.

Mary

Who could deny the obvious, all-encompassing knowledge possessed by
The Chuckle Brothers.

Anyway, basically surely the fact is that some women understand the
concept, some don't, some men understand the concept, some don't...as
is the case in many things.

You're so wise ... even with the leather ...

Mary

Ommmmm.

Mary Fisher wrote:

You seem to be linking a moustache with understanding.

Obviously a fallacious viewpoint, since yours hasn't conferred an iota
of understanding.

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:


"Appin" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

You seem to be linking a moustache with understanding.

Hmm.

Mary

Read it more carefully.

Difficulty in understanding that open doors, windows etc. will cause
thermostats to call for more heat and therefore drive up the fuel bill
seems to be more common among women.

It is no doubt true of some men. It is not necessarily true of all
women. It is nonetheless true that there is some correlation between
gender and difficulty in comprehending the point.

One of the things one might look for is whether women who show evidence
of historic and currrent high testosterone levels and could therefore be
expected to have more "male-type" brains hehave like males in this
particular area of reasoning. No-one's talking about understanding in
general, but reasoning in this particular area.

The ability to grow a moustache from puberty is an indication of
testosterone exposure which would be expected to lead to a male-type
brain,

On the basis of the (statistically-invalid) sample (of one!) it doesn't
seem to have made a whit of difference -- she reasons, on this matter,
as most other women do.

The overall understanding and reasoning powers of the said wife are not
in the least impaired by the fact of her need to use a Philishave every
morning.

"Appin" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:


"Appin" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

You seem to be linking a moustache with understanding.

Hmm.

Mary

Read it more carefully.

Difficulty in understanding that open doors, windows etc. will cause
thermostats to call for more heat and therefore drive up the fuel bill
seems to be more common among women.

I don't believe that this statement reflects anything more than your own
experience, you can't possibly know about all other women. The supporting
opinions from other men on this ng are insufficient.

It is no doubt true of some men. It is not necessarily true of all
women. It is nonetheless true that there is some correlation between
gender and difficulty in comprehending the point.

Insufficient evidence.

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:


Difficulty in understanding that open doors, windows etc. will cause
thermostats to call for more heat and therefore drive up the fuel bill
seems to be more common among women.

I don't believe that this statement reflects anything more than your own
experience, you can't possibly know about all other women. The supporting
opinions from other men on this ng are insufficient.


Of course it reflects more than my own experience -- I wasn't the first
or the second to make the point.
It reflects the experience of many of us, however varied our wives may be.

I think you're in a minority on this issue. It's you against the weight
of evidence thus-far adduced.



It is no doubt true of some men. It is not necessarily true of all
women. It is nonetheless true that there is some correlation between
gender and difficulty in comprehending the point.

Insufficient evidence.


But I suspect that nothing would be sufficient to convince you :-)

On the other hand, it would probably convince a reasonable individual :-)

The message
from Appin contains these words:

Difficulty in understanding that open doors, windows etc. will cause
thermostats to call for more heat and therefore drive up the fuel bill
seems to be more common among women.

I don't believe that this statement reflects anything more than your own
experience, you can't possibly know about all other women. The supporting
opinions from other men on this ng are insufficient.


Of course it reflects more than my own experience -- I wasn't the first
or the second to make the point.
It reflects the experience of many of us, however varied our wives may be.

I think you're in a minority on this issue. It's you against the weight
of evidence thus-far adduced.

ISTM that there is a widespread view that men and woman tend to have
different strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps the most widely observed of
these are that woman can multitask (talk, read and knit all at the same
time) much better than men but have a poor spatial awareness (can't
reverse a car nor navigate generally).

There are of course exceptions to these stereotypes but the One Show
(IIRC) on BBC1 a few weeks ago had an interesting take on the subject.
The argument there was that the differences are down to the level of
exposure to testosterone in the womb and the so called male and female
brains are by no means confined to their actual gender. A simple test is
apparently all it takes to establish the gender of your brain and the
test, rather bizarrely is the ratio between the lengths of your index
and ring fingers. Ring finger longer than index - male, shorter female.
The more pronounced the difference the more skewed the persons
abilities.

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from Roger contains these words:

ISTM that there is a widespread view that men and woman tend to have
different strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps the most widely observed of
these are that woman can multitask (talk, read and knit all at the same
time) much better than men but have a poor spatial awareness (can't
reverse a car nor navigate generally).

There are of course exceptions to these stereotypes but the One Show
(IIRC) on BBC1 a few weeks ago had an interesting take on the subject.
The argument there was that the differences are down to the level of
exposure to testosterone in the womb and the so called male and female
brains are by no means confined to their actual gender. A simple test is
apparently all it takes to establish the gender of your brain and the
test, rather bizarrely is the ratio between the lengths of your index
and ring fingers. Ring finger longer than index - male, shorter female.
The more pronounced the difference the more skewed the persons
abilities.


Very well expressed, and as you indicate, the "digit ratio" (the ratio
of the length of the ring finger to the length of the index finger) is a
very good indication of an individual who has had a high exposure to
testoterone in the critical first three months of foetal life while the
brain is developing (and in which, it so happens, relative finger
length, which is also testosterone-dependent) is also being determined.
Other things are also determined during this critical period, including
the sensitising of the skin in certain areas of the body so that it is
capable of responding to later testosterone stimulation if that should
happen to occur.

As you say, "male" and "female" brains -- and other characteristics --
don't necessarily correspond 100% to an individual's sex.

Of course, this is a piece of folk-wisdom which has been known all over
the world for many centuries. Why do you think that wedding rings are
worn on the fourth finger of, depending on the country, one hand or the
other? Because it's easy to see, looking at that hand, whether that
digit is longer than the index finger. And that in trun is a predictor
of relative fertility. A female with longer ring fingers is likely to
be less fertile becausae she is likely to have a higher
testosterone:estrogen ratio but if she does have children there is
likely to be a preponderance of boys.

As with all these things there are a lot of ifs and buts and maybes.
High testosterone in the first three months of fetal life doesn't
necessarily mean that it will be followed by high testosterone levels in
later life -- but the chances that it will are much higher than for a
female without such fetal exposure.

It's when there's high actual exposure to testosterone in later life,
from puberty onwards, that you see the difference between those who have
been sensitised by early exposure and those who haven't. High exposure
of those who haven't been sensitised in early foetal life will have
relatively little effect. Exposure to the same high levels of
testosterone of those who have been sensitised in early fetal life will
result in the development of characteristics more typical of males --
moustache growth, more body hair, restricted breast development,
deepening voice etc.

Which was really the point I was making -- even a woman (who in fact has
the longer ring fingers) with enough obvious testosterone influence on
her brain and body to produce moustache growth on a male scale and has
certainly had her brain masculinised to some extent STILL hasn't had her
brain masculinised enough to get her reasoning with regard to
thermostats etc. straight. It must require even more masculinisation to
make that reasoning a probability, so it must be a VERY male thing.

Appin wrote:
The message
from Roger contains these words:

ISTM that there is a widespread view that men and woman tend to have
different strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps the most widely observed of
these are that woman can multitask (talk, read and knit all at the same
time) much better than men but have a poor spatial awareness (can't
reverse a car nor navigate generally).

There are of course exceptions to these stereotypes but the One Show
(IIRC) on BBC1 a few weeks ago had an interesting take on the subject.
The argument there was that the differences are down to the level of
exposure to testosterone in the womb and the so called male and female
brains are by no means confined to their actual gender. A simple test is
apparently all it takes to establish the gender of your brain and the
test, rather bizarrely is the ratio between the lengths of your index
and ring fingers. Ring finger longer than index - male, shorter female.
The more pronounced the difference the more skewed the persons
abilities.


Very well expressed, and as you indicate, the "digit ratio" (the ratio
of the length of the ring finger to the length of the index finger) is a
very good indication of an individual who has had a high exposure to
testoterone in the critical first three months of foetal life while the
brain is developing (and in which, it so happens, relative finger
length, which is also testosterone-dependent) is also being determined.
Other things are also determined during this critical period, including
the sensitising of the skin in certain areas of the body so that it is
capable of responding to later testosterone stimulation if that should
happen to occur.

As you say, "male" and "female" brains -- and other characteristics --
don't necessarily correspond 100% to an individual's sex.

Of course, this is a piece of folk-wisdom which has been known all over
the world for many centuries. Why do you think that wedding rings are
worn on the fourth finger of, depending on the country, one hand or the
other? Because it's easy to see, looking at that hand, whether that
digit is longer than the index finger. And that in trun is a predictor
of relative fertility. A female with longer ring fingers is likely to
be less fertile becausae she is likely to have a higher
testosterone:estrogen ratio but if she does have children there is
likely to be a preponderance of boys.

As with all these things there are a lot of ifs and buts and maybes.
High testosterone in the first three months of fetal life doesn't
necessarily mean that it will be followed by high testosterone levels in
later life -- but the chances that it will are much higher than for a
female without such fetal exposure.

It's when there's high actual exposure to testosterone in later life,
from puberty onwards, that you see the difference between those who have
been sensitised by early exposure and those who haven't. High exposure
of those who haven't been sensitised in early foetal life will have
relatively little effect. Exposure to the same high levels of
testosterone of those who have been sensitised in early fetal life will
result in the development of characteristics more typical of males --
moustache growth, more body hair, restricted breast development,
deepening voice etc.

Which was really the point I was making -- even a woman (who in fact has
the longer ring fingers) with enough obvious testosterone influence on
her brain and body to produce moustache growth on a male scale and has
certainly had her brain masculinised to some extent STILL hasn't had her
brain masculinised enough to get her reasoning with regard to
thermostats etc. straight. It must require even more masculinisation to
make that reasoning a probability, so it must be a VERY male thing.

I have to say that I think its purely cultural.

Women are educated to be dumb ****s, applauded for being useless, sexy
selfish sluts. Of course they end up like brain dead bimbos. No one
ever said 'you are utter crap, and if you expect to succeed in life you
had better learn to dismantle a washing machine and reassemble it' to a
woman.

The fact that I am constantly delighted to find that there ARE in fact
women who can fly aircraft, drive racing cars, write machine code,
mostly better than any man and still be very female, is the reassurance
that this is ultimately the correct view.

And don;'t give me all that BS about women being able to multi-task.
They are crap at it.

The message
from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:



Which was really the point I was making -- even a woman (who in fact has
the longer ring fingers) with enough obvious testosterone influence on
her brain and body to produce moustache growth on a male scale and has
certainly had her brain masculinised to some extent STILL hasn't had her
brain masculinised enough to get her reasoning with regard to
thermostats etc. straight. It must require even more masculinisation to
make that reasoning a probability, so it must be a VERY male thing.

I have to say that I think its purely cultural.

Whose culture?

Women are educated to be dumb ****s, applauded for being useless, sexy
selfish sluts. Of course they end up like brain dead bimbos.

The subject of my illustration is certainly no way a bimbo. Bimbos are
by definition not flat-chested and not capable of growing a moustache
etc., etc. In spite of her lack of bimbo status and the fact that she
is certainly not dumb, she is nevertheless a most excellent participant
in the physical aspects of a relationship.


No one
ever said 'you are utter crap, and if you expect to succeed in life you
had better learn to dismantle a washing machine and reassemble it' to a
woman.

No-one? I can think of one American father who did just that. His
daughters can strip down and rebuild a car engine. They built his house
(and it's a good solid brick-built house). But they can't boil an egg.
Or even fry one.


The fact that I am constantly delighted to find that there ARE in fact
women who can fly aircraft, drive racing cars, write machine code,
mostly better than any man and still be very female, is the reassurance
that this is ultimately the correct view.

I don't know about better than ANY man, but I'd accept better than MOST
men. I assume that by "very female" you mean large breasts and no
obvious signs of masculinisation.


And don;'t give me all that BS about women being able to multi-task.
They are crap at it.

I've no settled views on that one.

In message , Appin
writes
A female with longer ring fingers is likely to be less fertile
becausae she is likely to have a higher testosterone:estrogen ratio but
if she does have children there is likely to be a preponderance of boys.

Oh really! Please explain the mechanism that would make that the case.

--
Si

The message
from Si $3o&m contains these words:

In message , Appin
writes
A female with longer ring fingers is likely to be less fertile
becausae she is likely to have a higher testosterone:estrogen ratio but
if she does have children there is likely to be a preponderance of boys.

Oh really! Please explain the mechanism that would make that the case.

You are as able to do your Googling as I am :-).

Statistically, it's the case. The explanations are probably multiple,
but one obvious mechanism is the relative alkalinity/acidity of the
vaginal tract being determined related to testosterone levels and having
a major influence on whether x or y sperm survived. Another relates to
the uterine environment and hormone levels in utero favouring the
sruvival or the abortion of male or female foetuses. We're talking only
of tendencies, not certainties.

Roger wrote:
The message
from Appin contains these words:

Difficulty in understanding that open doors, windows etc. will
cause thermostats to call for more heat and therefore drive up the
fuel bill seems to be more common among women.

I don't believe that this statement reflects anything more than
your own experience, you can't possibly know about all other women.
The supporting opinions from other men on this ng are insufficient.


Of course it reflects more than my own experience -- I wasn't the
first or the second to make the point.
It reflects the experience of many of us, however varied our wives
may be.

I think you're in a minority on this issue. It's you against the
weight of evidence thus-far adduced.

ISTM that there is a widespread view that men and woman tend to have
different strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps the most widely observed
of these are that woman can multitask (talk, read and knit all at the
same time) much better than men but have a poor spatial awareness
(can't reverse a car nor navigate generally).


Apparently AIANABS (1) this is to do with the two halves of the brain, the
left half being the logical, rational bit and the right half being the
intuitive, artistic half. The two are connected by the Corpus Callosum.

Again apparently in men a large amount of info is processed on one side &
sent over as a batch, but in females the information is constantly fed back
& forth in small amounts.

This explains why men can focus solely on one thing and women can multi
task.

(1) And I am not a brain surgeon.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:45:26 UTC, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Roger wrote:
The message
from Appin contains these words:

Difficulty in understanding that open doors, windows etc. will
cause thermostats to call for more heat and therefore drive up the
fuel bill seems to be more common among women.

I don't believe that this statement reflects anything more than
your own experience, you can't possibly know about all other women.
The supporting opinions from other men on this ng are insufficient.


Of course it reflects more than my own experience -- I wasn't the
first or the second to make the point.
It reflects the experience of many of us, however varied our wives
may be.

I think you're in a minority on this issue. It's you against the
weight of evidence thus-far adduced.

ISTM that there is a widespread view that men and woman tend to have
different strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps the most widely observed
of these are that woman can multitask (talk, read and knit all at the
same time) much better than men but have a poor spatial awareness
(can't reverse a car nor navigate generally).


Apparently AIANABS (1) this is to do with the two halves of the brain, the
left half being the logical, rational bit and the right half being the
intuitive, artistic half. The two are connected by the Corpus Callosum.

The CC is also thicker in women, the theory being that this improves
information transfer between the sides. It may also be responsible for
the increased right/left confusion often observed.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:45:26 UTC, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Roger wrote:
The message
from Appin contains these words:

Difficulty in understanding that open doors, windows etc. will
cause thermostats to call for more heat and therefore drive up
the fuel bill seems to be more common among women.

I don't believe that this statement reflects anything more than
your own experience, you can't possibly know about all other
women. The supporting opinions from other men on this ng are
insufficient.


Of course it reflects more than my own experience -- I wasn't the
first or the second to make the point.
It reflects the experience of many of us, however varied our wives
may be.

I think you're in a minority on this issue. It's you against the
weight of evidence thus-far adduced.

ISTM that there is a widespread view that men and woman tend to have
different strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps the most widely observed
of these are that woman can multitask (talk, read and knit all at
the same time) much better than men but have a poor spatial
awareness (can't reverse a car nor navigate generally).


Apparently AIANABS (1) this is to do with the two halves of the
brain, the left half being the logical, rational bit and the right
half being the intuitive, artistic half. The two are connected by
the Corpus Callosum.

The CC is also thicker in women, the theory being that this improves
information transfer between the sides. It may also be responsible for
the increased right/left confusion often observed.

You are a wise man Bob :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257