On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:13:25 GMT, John Stumbles
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:58:22 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

These Giannoni heat exchangers are plentiful and are in millions of boilers.
Even Heatline, BIASI and Ravenheat have models using this heat exchanger.

Dunno about Heatline but saying "even" BIASI and Ravenheat use this HX is
like saying even Poundshop and Costcutter stock a product: it says cheap
tat not high quality.

Interesting proposition cheap tat=not high quality are we to presume
the converse that is expensive tat=high quality?

On 2008-01-01 06:32:49 +0000, Edward W. Thompson
said:

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:13:25 GMT, John Stumbles
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:58:22 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

These Giannoni heat exchangers are plentiful and are in millions of boilers.
Even Heatline, BIASI and Ravenheat have models using this heat exchanger.

Dunno about Heatline but saying "even" BIASI and Ravenheat use this HX is
like saying even Poundshop and Costcutter stock a product: it says cheap
tat not high quality.

Interesting proposition cheap tat=not high quality are we to presume
the converse that is expensive tat=high quality?

No. That's expensive (not tat) = high quality.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:58:22 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

These Giannoni heat exchangers are plentiful and are in millions of
boilers.
Even Heatline, BIASI and Ravenheat have models using this heat exchanger.

Dunno about Heatline but saying "even" BIASI and Ravenheat use this HX is
like saying even Poundshop and Costcutter stock a product: it says cheap
tat not high quality.

Well Vaillant use the same heat X. These companies use this heat X in their
up market models. And in the case of the Heatline, who use industry
standard parts, it is cheap for what it is. Many of the parts use in these
boilers are used in more expensive makes.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:50:18 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote
http://www.gas-news.co.uk/archive/st...mment/1006.htm

The Giannoni heat exchangers:
http://www.giannoni.fr/Prod-ABSOLUT-CONDENS.html

That's just a product brochu it doesn't answer the concerns and
criticisms raised in the GN article.

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in Vaillants,
Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are quality product with a good
reputation. If the system is installed properly, and with a Magnaclean,
then there is little chance of sludge build up in the heat OX.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:50:18 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote
http://www.gas-news.co.uk/archive/st...mment/1006.htm

The Giannoni heat exchangers:
http://www.giannoni.fr/Prod-ABSOLUT-CONDENS.html

That's just a product brochu it doesn't answer the concerns and
criticisms raised in the GN article.

Look at the ACV Heatmaster and Atmos Multi. These are basically a boiler
with a very larger water capacity heat exchanger. Most would view it as a
thermal store. Many oil boilers have large water capacity heat exchangers
and use the integrated thermal store to improve combi performance.

Take the size of a normal boiler. Have a large capacity heat exchanger that
is squareish taking up all space inside the casing, maximizing the space
available, then this heat X/thermal store would improve combi performance no
end. Also used as a system boiler, cycling would be virtually eliminated.

On 2008-01-02 00:10:15 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:50:18 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote
http://www.gas-news.co.uk/archive/st...mment/1006.htm

The Giannoni heat exchangers:
http://www.giannoni.fr/Prod-ABSOLUT-CONDENS.html

That's just a product brochu it doesn't answer the concerns and
criticisms raised in the GN article.

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in Vaillants,
Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are quality product with a
good reputation. If the system is installed properly, and with a
Magnaclean, then there is little chance of sludge build up in the heat
OX.

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need
for a Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477ae429@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 00:10:15 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:50:18 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote
http://www.gas-news.co.uk/archive/st...mment/1006.htm

The Giannoni heat exchangers:
http://www.giannoni.fr/Prod-ABSOLUT-CONDENS.html

That's just a product brochu it doesn't answer the concerns and
criticisms raised in the GN article.

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in Vaillants,
Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are a quality product with a
good reputation. If the system is installed properly, and with a
Magnaclean, then there is little chance of sludge build up in the heat X.

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need for a
Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

The article was on about poorly maintained system and that this could lead
to these heat exchangers being blocked as a result. A Magnaclean will
prevent the problem occurring.

On 2008-01-02 10:01:02 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477ae429@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 00:10:15 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:50:18 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote
http://www.gas-news.co.uk/archive/st...mment/1006.htm

The Giannoni heat exchangers:
http://www.giannoni.fr/Prod-ABSOLUT-CONDENS.html

That's just a product brochu it doesn't answer the concerns and
criticisms raised in the GN article.

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in Vaillants,
Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are a quality product with a
good reputation. If the system is installed properly, and with a
Magnaclean, then there is little chance of sludge build up in the heat X.

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need for a
Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

The article was on about poorly maintained system and that this could lead
to these heat exchangers being blocked as a result. A Magnaclean will
prevent the problem occurring.


Cleaning and then maintaining the system properly will prevent the
sludging, not only protecting the heat exchanger but also extending the
life of the radiators.

Using a Magnaclean is like putting Elastoplast on a broken leg.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 10:01:02 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477ae429@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 00:10:15 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in Vaillants,
Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are a quality product with a
good reputation. If the system is installed properly, and with a
Magnaclean, then there is little chance of sludge build up in the
heat X.

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need
for a
Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

The article was on about poorly maintained system and that this could
lead
to these heat exchangers being blocked as a result. A Magnaclean will
prevent the problem occurring.


Cleaning and then maintaining the system properly will prevent the
sludging, not only protecting the heat exchanger but also extending the
life of the radiators.

Using a Magnaclean is like putting Elastoplast on a broken leg.

Surely it's more like fitting a plaster cast to the leg, but without
fixing the loose carpet on the stairs?

David

On 2008-01-02 11:00:40 +0000, Lobster said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 10:01:02 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477ae429@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 00:10:15 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in Vaillants,
Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are a quality product with a
good reputation. If the system is installed properly, and with a
Magnaclean, then there is little chance of sludge build up in the heat X.

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need for a
Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

The article was on about poorly maintained system and that this could lead
to these heat exchangers being blocked as a result. A Magnaclean will
prevent the problem occurring.


Cleaning and then maintaining the system properly will prevent the
sludging, not only protecting the heat exchanger but also extending the
life of the radiators.

Using a Magnaclean is like putting Elastoplast on a broken leg.

Surely it's more like fitting a plaster cast to the leg, but without
fixing the loose carpet on the stairs?

David

Yes, you're right. That is a better way to describe it.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477b6af4@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 10:01:02 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477ae429@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 00:10:15 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:50:18 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote
http://www.gas-news.co.uk/archive/st...mment/1006.htm

The Giannoni heat exchangers:
http://www.giannoni.fr/Prod-ABSOLUT-CONDENS.html

That's just a product brochu it doesn't answer the concerns and
criticisms raised in the GN article.

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in Vaillants,
Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are a quality product with a
good reputation. If the system is installed properly, and with a
Magnaclean, then there is little chance of sludge build up in the heat
X.

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need for
a
Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

The article was on about poorly maintained system and that this could
lead
to these heat exchangers being blocked as a result. A Magnaclean will
prevent the problem occurring.

Cleaning and then maintaining the system properly will prevent the
sludging, not only protecting the heat exchanger but also extending the
life of the radiators.

Using a Magnaclean is like putting Elastoplast on a broken leg.

Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee against
poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that should be done
indices total naivety of the real world.

On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in Vaillants,
Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are a quality product with a
good reputation. If the system is installed properly, and with a
Magnaclean, then there is little chance of sludge build up in the heat X.

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need for a
Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

The article was on about poorly maintained system and that this could lead
to these heat exchangers being blocked as a result. A Magnaclean will
prevent the problem occurring.

Cleaning and then maintaining the system properly will prevent the
sludging, not only protecting the heat exchanger but also extending the
life of the radiators.

Using a Magnaclean is like putting Elastoplast on a broken leg.

Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.


Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside. The
other word is naiveté. Perhaps you were confusing it with nativity
which is something else.

If what you say is true, please explain to me how every system that I
have ever had has remained sludge free with the simple expedients of
making sure that there is no suck down or pump over where there has
been an open system together with making sure that the system is dosed
with a good quality corrosion inhibitor annually.

Nobody is disputing that a Magnaclean will do what it says and capture
passing suspensions of sludge. The issue is one of prevention being
better than cure.

If a system is so poorly maintained that a Magnaclean is used, then
what happens when that, too, becomes full of sludge?

In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:
Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.


Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside.

That's pretty clearly a typo for "indicates".

The other word is naiveté.

The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary says:

*naivety* The state or quality of being naive.

Perhaps you were confusing it with nativity which is something else.

I don't think he's the one that's confused.

--
Mike Barnes

On 2008-01-02 14:52:28 +0000, Mike Barnes said:

In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:
Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.


Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside.

That's pretty clearly a typo for "indicates".

That's a stretch.



The other word is naiveté.

The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary says:

*naivety* The state or quality of being naive.

Perhaps you were confusing it with nativity which is something else.

I don't think he's the one that's confused.



As has already been mentioned, this suggestion is equivalent to
plastering the broken leg rather than fixing the stair carpet.

Even on a simple basis of economics, the suggestion makes no sense at all.

Option A)

Good quality corrosion inhibitor = £20 annually (max).

Option B)

Magnaclean = £100.
plus
New radiators = £1000+ (because the Magnaclean does not prevent corrosion).


Which do you imagine is the more cost effective over a 5 year period?

Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:
Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.

Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside.

That's pretty clearly a typo for "indicates".

The other word is naivet�.

The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary says:

*naivety* The state or quality of being naive.

Perhaps you were confusing it with nativity which is something else.

I don't think he's the one that's confused.

Then you think wrong.

Dr Drivel is a well-known idiot.

In uk.d-i-y, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:
Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.

Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside.
That's pretty clearly a typo for "indicates".

The other word is naivet0 The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary says:
*naivety* The state or quality of being naive.

Perhaps you were confusing it with nativity which is something else.
I don't think he's the one that's confused.

Then you think wrong.

Dr Drivel is a well-known idiot.

I know. As soon as I saw "Total tripe!!!" I knew it was him, and that
the rest would be nonsense. But that doesn't stop Andy's reply being
nonsense as well. The rest of what Andy said might have been worth
reading, but his comments on DD's *writing* were really dumb. It's bad
enough criticising someone's spelling or grammar on Usenet, but Andy
went a step further and got it completely wrong. It can happen to
anybody.

--
Mike Barnes

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477bacda@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 14:52:28 +0000, Mike Barnes
said:

In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:
Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.


Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside.

That's pretty clearly a typo for "indicates".

That's

Matt, you are confused.

On 2008-01-02 18:43:13 +0000, Mike Barnes said:

In uk.d-i-y, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:
Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.

Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside.
That's pretty clearly a typo for "indicates".

The other word is naivet0 The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary says:
*naivety* The state or quality of being naive.

Perhaps you were confusing it with nativity which is something else.
I don't think he's the one that's confused.

Then you think wrong.

Dr Drivel is a well-known idiot.

I know. As soon as I saw "Total tripe!!!" I knew it was him, and that
the rest would be nonsense. But that doesn't stop Andy's reply being
nonsense as well.

Except that it wasn't.

The rest of what Andy said might have been worth
reading, but his comments on DD's *writing* were really dumb.

That's a separate issue.

It's bad
enough criticising someone's spelling or grammar on Usenet, but Andy
went a step further and got it completely wrong.


Incorrect.

1) A typo is generally one letter adrift.

2) The original and preferred spelling of naiveté is the French one.
Actually, strictly speaking it should have an umlaut over the 'I' as
well. Naivety is a *******isation of it. Note also, that Google
lists 300k+ references to the original spelling and around 90k for the
other one.

On 2008-01-02 19:25:46 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477bacda@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 14:52:28 +0000, Mike Barnes said:

In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:
Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.


Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside.

That's pretty clearly a typo for "indicates".

That's

Matt, you are confused.

Pot -- kettle -- black ?

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:44:04 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-01-02 10:01:02 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news:477ae429@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 00:10:15 +0000, "Doctor Drivel"
said:


"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:50:18 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote
http://www.gas-news.co.uk/archive/st...mment/1006.htm

The Giannoni heat exchangers:
http://www.giannoni.fr/Prod-ABSOLUT-CONDENS.html

That's just a product brochu it doesn't answer the concerns and
criticisms raised in the GN article.

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in
Vaillants, Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are a quality
product with a good reputation. If the system is installed properly,
and with a Magnaclean, then there is little chance of sludge build up
in the heat X.

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need
for a Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

The article was on about poorly maintained system and that this could
lead to these heat exchangers being blocked as a result. A Magnaclean
will prevent the problem occurring.


Cleaning and then maintaining the system properly will prevent the
sludging, not only protecting the heat exchanger but also extending the
life of the radiators.

Using a Magnaclean is like putting Elastoplast on a broken leg.

8-).

Magnaclean is sort of like first-aid when things are really bad and a new
heating system is really called for. But it's the middle of winter and
you are not able to fix things properly just yet. As far as I'm concerned
it's not part of a properly installed new or renovated system.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477bedde@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 19:25:46 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477bacda@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 14:52:28 +0000, Mike Barnes
said:

In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel"
said:
Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.


Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside.

That's pretty clearly a typo for "indicates".

That's

Matt, you are confused.

Matt you are also barking mad.

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:49:36 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news:477b6af4@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 10:01:02 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news:477ae429@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 00:10:15 +0000, "Doctor Drivel"
said:


"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:50:18 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote
http://www.gas-news.co.uk/archive/st...mment/1006.htm

The Giannoni heat exchangers:
http://www.giannoni.fr/Prod-ABSOLUT-CONDENS.html

That's just a product brochu it doesn't answer the concerns and
criticisms raised in the GN article.

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in
Vaillants, Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are a quality
product with a good reputation. If the system is installed
properly, and with a Magnaclean, then there is little chance of
sludge build up in the heat X.

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need
for a
Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

The article was on about poorly maintained system and that this could
lead
to these heat exchangers being blocked as a result. A Magnaclean will
prevent the problem occurring.

Cleaning and then maintaining the system properly will prevent the
sludging, not only protecting the heat exchanger but also extending the
life of the radiators.

Using a Magnaclean is like putting Elastoplast on a broken leg.

Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that should
be done indices total naivety of the real world.

The only way a sealed system is going to sludge up is if the user adds
water daily for many months. As you say in the real world that happens,
quite often. There is little I can do about that.

One thing is clear the extra cost of installing a Magnaclean achieves
what? It won't stop the system having to be cleaned as part of the
repair. If it makes any impact on keeping the system running any longer
then one effect would be to prolong the damage to the system.

I can see a possible use for a Magnaclean.

Imagine a very large system (say something like C19 church hall or a
small school), with enormous high water content radiators and pipework.
You need to replace the boiler.

A reasonable way of doing this is to keep the old circuit intact and use
a water-water heat exchanger coupled to the new C21 boiler (with sealed
primary and inhibitor). A Magnaclean would be very useful to keep the old
vented secondary side of the heat exchanger clear of bits.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:44:04 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-01-02 10:01:02 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news:477ae429@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 00:10:15 +0000, "Doctor Drivel"
said:


"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:50:18 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Stumbles" wrote
http://www.gas-news.co.uk/archive/st...mment/1006.htm

The Giannoni heat exchangers:
http://www.giannoni.fr/Prod-ABSOLUT-CONDENS.html

That's just a product brochu it doesn't answer the concerns and
criticisms raised in the GN article.

Giannoni are a well respected company. Their heat Xs are in
Vaillants, Broags, Glow Worms and many others. They are a quality
product with a good reputation. If the system is installed properly,
and with a Magnaclean, then there is little chance of sludge build up
in the heat X.

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need
for a Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

The article was on about poorly maintained system and that this could
lead to these heat exchangers being blocked as a result. A Magnaclean
will prevent the problem occurring.


Cleaning and then maintaining the system properly will prevent the
sludging, not only protecting the heat exchanger but also extending the
life of the radiators.

Using a Magnaclean is like putting Elastoplast on a broken leg.

8-).

Magnaclean is sort of

Do you know what a Magnaclean is? I can understand the uk.d-i-y Lunatic
Association not knowing....

In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 18:43:13 +0000, Mike Barnes said:

In uk.d-i-y, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:
Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.

Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside.
That's pretty clearly a typo for "indicates".

The other word is naivet0 The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary
says:
*naivety* The state or quality of being naive.

Perhaps you were confusing it with nativity which is something
else.
I don't think he's the one that's confused.

Then you think wrong.
Dr Drivel is a well-known idiot.
I know. As soon as I saw "Total tripe!!!" I knew it was him, and
that
the rest would be nonsense. But that doesn't stop Andy's reply being
nonsense as well.

Except that it wasn't.

It was so. Wriggling doesn't help.

[...]
It's bad
enough criticising someone's spelling or grammar on Usenet, but Andy
went a step further and got it completely wrong.


Incorrect.

1) A typo is generally one letter adrift.

Perhaps "generally", but not always. This was clearly a typographicical
error. :-)

He/she wrote "Say this should be done and that should be done indices
total naivety of the real world". It's blindingly obvious that
"indicates" was meant. You might claim that DD is such an idiot that no-
one can be sure what was meant, and that's a very appealing thought, but
actually it's even more stupid than the Doctor's normal Drivel. Two
wrongs don't make a right.

You responded "Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that
aside". So what if "index" is the plural of "index"? (Actually it's only
*a* plural: "indexes" is another.) And who's this "we" that's going to
leave the subject aside after you've raised it? Fat chance.

2) The original and preferred spelling of naiveté is the French one.

"Original": So what? Those who believe that etymology trumps current
usage are idiots.

"Preferred": By whom? You?

Actually, strictly speaking it should have an umlaut over the 'I' as
well. Naivety is a *******isation of it. Note also, that Google
lists 300k+ references to the original spelling and around 90k for the
other one.

If about 20% of users (including, as it happens, DD) write "naivety",
and that word is listed in the NSOED without deprecation, it's
presumptuous of you to claim that they should have written something
else.

--
Mike Barnes

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
Using a Magnaclean is like putting Elastoplast on a broken leg.

Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that should
be done indices total naivety of the real world.

The only way a sealed system is going to sludge up is if the user adds
water daily for many months. As you say in the real world that happens,
quite often. There is little I can do about that.

A relative for 4 years constantly topped up the combi every week. Hey what?
All the rads sludged up! We took each rad off and power hosed them out then
used Fernox cleaner. I fixed the leaks of course.

On open vented systems, a Magnaclean is essential. I tend to like one pipe
combined vent and feed systems over sealed, if they can go in.

I recently fitted a system and about 25% of the old pipe was retained along
with the 20 yr old boiler. All new rads. A Magnaclean was fitted. It was
amazed at the crap it picked up and continued to for 2 months after then all
clean

Modern small tubed heat exchangers are prone to sludge solidifying inside.
A Magnaclean will stop the sludge build up in the heat X and rads. Also it
stops sludge build up in the plate heat Xs in combis too.

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 13:49:36 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:
Total tripe!!! It prevents sludge build up. And is a guarantee
against poor to no maintenance. Say this should be done and that
should be done indices total naivety of the real world.

Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that aside.
That's pretty clearly a typo for "indicates".

The other word is naivet0 The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary says:
*naivety* The state or quality of being naive.

Perhaps you were confusing it with nativity which is something else.
I don't think he's the one that's confused.

Then you think wrong.

Dr Drivel is a well-known idiot.

I know. As soon as I saw "Total tripe!!!" I knew it was him, and that
the rest would be nonsense. But that doesn't stop Andy's reply being
nonsense as well. The rest of what Andy said might have been worth
reading, but his comments on DD's *writing* were really dumb. It's bad
enough criticising someone's spelling or grammar on Usenet, but Andy
went a step further and got it completely wrong. It can happen to
anybody.

It's the law of responding to grammatical errors in a post that the
responder has to make an error himself (forget the name ...)
--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...

It's the law of responding to grammatical errors in a post that the
responder has to make an error himself (forget the name ...)

Maxie, you are a breath of fresh air.

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:08:57 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need
for a Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

If the system has always been maintained properly there should be no
sludge, but I suspect that there are systems with aged rads which are
prone to continuous release of crud into the primary water. Maybe due to
caked-up crud softening and reentering circulation, or rust on inside
surfaces of rads left over from earlier poor-maintenance days flaking off.

A magnetic filter is relatively cheap compared to repair of damage that
can occur due to magnetic debris, and a useful window on the primary
system.

--
John Stumbles

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana
Tits like coconuts

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:34:54 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

Magnaclean is sort of like first-aid when things are really bad and a
new heating system is really called for. But it's the middle of winter
and you are not able to fix things properly just yet. As far as I'm
concerned it's not part of a properly installed new or renovated system.

In a perfect world...

However if I'm replacing a boiler from a CI on a system with all 1960/70s
vintage rads then I'll put a mag cleaner on it rather than try to get the
customer to pay me to replace all the rads.

--
John Stumbles

Pessimists are never disappointed

In uk.d-i-y, geoff wrote:
It's the law of responding to grammatical errors in a post that the
responder has to make an error himself (forget the name ...)

It has quite a few names. There used to be a Wikipedia article about it
("Skitt's law") but although there are still links to it, the article
itself seems to have disappeared, or been renamed where I can't find it.

--
Mike Barnes

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...

I have concluded that you are a total idiot..although about Matt. There you
have it!

On 2008-01-02 21:01:15 +0000, Mike Barnes said:

In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-02 18:43:13 +0000, Mike Barnes said:

In uk.d-i-y, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Then you think wrong.
Dr Drivel is a well-known idiot.
I know. As soon as I saw "Total tripe!!!" I knew it was him, and
that
the rest would be nonsense. But that doesn't stop Andy's reply being
nonsense as well.

Except that it wasn't.

It was so. Wriggling doesn't help.

It's very clear that there were two sets of points - one related to the
wording and the other to the content and wriggling doesn't come into it
other than through your mentioning it.



[...]
It's bad
enough criticising someone's spelling or grammar on Usenet, but Andy
went a step further and got it completely wrong.


Incorrect.

1) A typo is generally one letter adrift.

Perhaps "generally", but not always. This was clearly a typographicical
error. :-)


That's a stretch at best.



He/she wrote "Say this should be done and that should be done indices
total naivety of the real world". It's blindingly obvious that
"indicates" was meant. You might claim that DD is such an idiot that no-
one can be sure what was meant, and that's a very appealing thought, but
actually it's even more stupid than the Doctor's normal Drivel. Two
wrongs don't make a right.

By context of course it's obvious what the word should be. Wrong is
still wrong.



You responded "Indices is the plural of index, but we'll leave that
aside". So what if "index" is the plural of "index"? (Actually it's only
*a* plural: "indexes" is another.) And who's this "we" that's going to
leave the subject aside after you've raised it?

Clearly not you, it would appear.




2) The original and preferred spelling of naiveté is the French one.

"Original": So what? Those who believe that etymology trumps current
usage are idiots.

"Preferred": By whom? You?

On a reasonable reference based on an internet search, it would appear
to be something over 3:1.



Actually, strictly speaking it should have an umlaut over the 'I' as
well. Naivety is a *******isation of it. Note also, that Google
lists 300k+ references to the original spelling and around 90k for the
other one.

If about 20% of users (including, as it happens, DD) write "naivety",
and that word is listed in the NSOED without deprecation, it's
presumptuous of you to claim that they should have written something
else.

I based my comment on proportionate use, which is entirely reasonable.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477c254e@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 21:01:15 +0000, Mike Barnes
said:

It was so. Wriggling doesn't help.

It's very clear that there were two sets of points - one related to the
wording and the other to the content and wriggling doesn't come into it
other than through your mentioning it.

Fascinating!!! Two plantpots having a go at each other. Fascinating!

On 2008-01-02 23:13:57 +0000, John Stumbles said:

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:08:57 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

If the system is installed and maintained properly, there is no need
for a Magnaclean because there is no sludge.

If the system has always been maintained properly there should be no
sludge, but I suspect that there are systems with aged rads which are
prone to continuous release of crud into the primary water. Maybe due to
caked-up crud softening and reentering circulation, or rust on inside
surfaces of rads left over from earlier poor-maintenance days flaking off.


A magnetic filter is relatively cheap compared to repair of damage that
can occur due to magnetic debris, and a useful window on the primary
system.

I can see the point in that scenario. However, if the radiators are
in that poor a condition, then they really should be replaced because
an unpredicted leak could be a very expensive proposition.

On 2008-01-03 00:06:54 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477c254e@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 21:01:15 +0000, Mike Barnes said:

It was so. Wriggling doesn't help.

It's very clear that there were two sets of points - one related to the
wording and the other to the content and wriggling doesn't come into it
other than through your mentioning it.

Fascinating!!! Two plantpots having a go at each other. Fascinating!

Who do you see yourself as? Weed?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477c2a32@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-03 00:06:54 +0000, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:477c254e@qaanaaq...
On 2008-01-02 21:01:15 +0000, Mike Barnes
said:

It was so. Wriggling doesn't help.

It's very clear that there were two sets of points - one related to the
wording and the other to the content and wriggling doesn't come into it
other than through your mentioning it.

Fascinating!!! Two plantpots having a go at each other. Fascinating!

Who do you see yourself as? Weed?

I only saw two plantpots.