I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.

On Nov 8, 12:36 pm, Phil Gardner wrote:
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.

Don't!

MBQ

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 05:06:50 -0800, Man at B&Q
wrote:

On Nov 8, 12:36 pm, Phil Gardner wrote:
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.


Don't!

MBQ

Encouraging
just like the knowledgeable service you get at B&Q

Phil Gardner wrote:

Encouraging
just like the knowledgeable service you get at B&Q


He's right though. Read up about financial bubbles. They are a perfectly
natural phenomenon, that has been around for thousands of years. We are
currently in the middle of such a bubble, and you are about to buy just
before it bursts.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Phil Gardner wrote:

Encouraging
just like the knowledgeable service you get at B&Q

He's right though. Read up about financial bubbles. They are a perfectly
natural phenomenon, that has been around for thousands of years. We are
currently in the middle of such a bubble, and you are about to buy just
before it bursts.

A housing bubble? No. There is still a shortage of housing. In certain
housing segments things may be difficult. BTL is one, overall no.

On Nov 8, 2:57 pm, Phil Gardner wrote:
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 05:06:50 -0800, Man at B&Q





wrote:
On Nov 8, 12:36 pm, Phil Gardner wrote:
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.

Don't!

MBQ

Encouraging
just like the knowledgeable service you get at B&Q

I never use 100 words when one will do ;-)

MBQ

In article , Phil Gardner
scribeth thus
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.


Look at it short term and run a mile!..

Look at it long term .. and yep, good as investment as any.

I reckon that the UK housing market will wobble quite a bit as its well
over priced and has been that way for a long time.

And I suppose you have done your homework about the times when you don't
have any tenants and allowed for maintenance costs etc...
--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Phil Gardner
scribeth thus
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.


Look at it short term and run a mile!..

Look at it long term .. and yep, good as investment as any.

Historically a slightly worst investment than average actually.

A stock market tracker over the same period would have done better.


I reckon that the UK housing market will wobble quite a bit as its well
over priced and has been that way for a long time.

And I suppose you have done your homework about the times when you don't
have any tenants and allowed for maintenance costs etc...

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
tony sayer wrote:

Look at it long term .. and yep, good as investment as any.

Historically a slightly worst investment than average actually.

A stock market tracker over the same period would have done better.


Which is probably true. It is surprising therefore that if you go into a
bank and ask to borrow 200k to buy a buy-to-let they won't bat an
eyelid. Go in and ask to borrow 200k to invest in a FTSE100 tracker and
you might get a different response.

The reason that people have made such a profit over the last ten years
is not just the general rise in prices but the fact that a lot of that
investment has been leveraged. But just as that is an advantage in a
rising market is is a _big_ problem in a falling market.

In the long term it doesn't matter if property underperforms the stock
market slightly. If three-quarters of your investment is coming from the
bank your profit is increased four-fold.

Andrew

On 2007-11-08 16:37:44 +0000, Andrew May said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
tony sayer wrote:

Look at it long term .. and yep, good as investment as any.

Historically a slightly worst investment than average actually.

A stock market tracker over the same period would have done better.


Which is probably true. It is surprising therefore that if you go into
a bank and ask to borrow 200k to buy a buy-to-let they won't bat an
eyelid. Go in and ask to borrow 200k to invest in a FTSE100 tracker and
you might get a different response.

Primary residence as collateral?



The reason that people have made such a profit over the last ten years
is not just the general rise in prices but the fact that a lot of that
investment has been leveraged. But just as that is an advantage in a
rising market is is a _big_ problem in a falling market.

In the long term it doesn't matter if property underperforms the stock
market slightly. If three-quarters of your investment is coming from
the bank your profit is increased four-fold.

Andrew

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-11-08 16:37:44 +0000, Andrew May said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
tony sayer wrote:

Look at it long term .. and yep, good as investment as any.

Historically a slightly worst investment than average actually.

A stock market tracker over the same period would have done better.


Which is probably true. It is surprising therefore that if you go into
a bank and ask to borrow 200k to buy a buy-to-let they won't bat an
eyelid. Go in and ask to borrow 200k to invest in a FTSE100 tracker
and you might get a different response.

Primary residence as collateral?

Oh, I am sure you could do it but I think that any financial adviser
would be far more concerned with making sure it was documented that they
had pointed out the potential downsides than they would it it was BTL.

Andrew

On 2007-11-08 16:11:27 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Phil Gardner
scribeth thus
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing Is anyone on this forum in this
business that could offer advice.


Look at it short term and run a mile!..

Look at it long term .. and yep, good as investment as any.

Historically a slightly worst investment than average actually.

A stock market tracker over the same period would have done better.


... and with zero input of effort, which is not free.

In article , The Natural
Philosopher scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Phil Gardner
scribeth thus
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.


Look at it short term and run a mile!..

Look at it long term .. and yep, good as investment as any.

Historically a slightly worst investment than average actually.

A stock market tracker over the same period would have done better.


Well in Cambridge ... you know that place.. Of silly prices......

--
Tony Sayer

Phil Gardner wrote:
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.

Just make sure you vet your tenants properly ;-)

http://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.1767060.0.cannabis_factory_raided.php

--
Adrian C

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 12:36:34 GMT, Phil Gardner wrote:

I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.


www.housepricecrash.co.uk
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk

On 8 Nov, 13:35, mogga wrote:

www.housepricecrash.co.uk

Beware! That place is a support group for the dispossessed, not a
place for rational analysis of the housing market. A considerable
number of them sold up in 2003 and have been calling a crash everyday
since. I'd put about as much credence on their opinions as I would on
Foxtons.

PWC produce monthly roundups of the whole British Economy which are
pretty comprehensive, and rather better informed. Latest one is here,
see pp.22-26 on the housing market. Their "central" prediction is slow
growth. Their worst-case (5% probability) scenario is not a disaster.
http://www.pwc.co.uk/pdf/uk_economic_download_nov07.pdf

On Nov 8, 3:04 pm, Anita Palley wrote:
On 8 Nov, 13:35, mogga wrote:

www.housepricecrash.co.uk

Beware! That place is a support group for the dispossessed, not a
place for rational analysis of the housing market. A considerable
number of them sold up in 2003 and have been calling a crash everyday
since. I'd put about as much credence on their opinions as I would on
Foxtons.

PWC produce monthly roundups of the whole British Economy which are
pretty comprehensive, and rather better informed. Latest one is here,
see pp.22-26 on the housing market. Their "central" prediction is slow
growth. Their worst-case (5% probability) scenario is not a disaster.http://www.pwc.co.uk/pdf/uk_economic_download_nov07.pdf

House prices aren't the only issue here though. You also have to
consider the rental returns (which are suffereing) and whether your
money would be better somewhere else.

MBQ

On 8 Nov, 15:24, Man at B&Q wrote:

House prices aren't the only issue here though. You also have to
consider the rental returns (which are suffereing) and whether your
money would be better somewhere else.

Fair point, although even small capital growth can more than make up
for mediocre rental returns. Also I'd steer well clear of city centre
2 bed "luxury apartments". These are notoriously overpriced, you're
competing with every other landlord in the block to get them let, and
they've been falling in value while the rest of the market has boomed.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:38:49 -0800, Anita Palley wrote:

On 8 Nov, 15:24, Man at B&Q wrote:

House prices aren't the only issue here though. You also have to
consider the rental returns (which are suffereing) and whether your
money would be better somewhere else.

Fair point, although even small capital growth can more than make up
for mediocre rental returns. Also I'd steer well clear of city centre
2 bed "luxury apartments". These are notoriously overpriced, you're
competing with every other landlord in the block to get them let, and
they've been falling in value while the rest of the market has boomed.

People do well to remember that a brand new dwelling has about a 20% mark
up over a 10 year home. It escapes me why people should want to buy
something that is going to take a certain amount of snagging (hassle if
not cost) just to have everything new but perhaps not as practical/durable
as needed.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Anita Palley" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 8 Nov, 15:24, Man at B&Q wrote:

House prices aren't the only issue here though. You also have to
consider the rental returns (which are suffereing) and whether your
money would be better somewhere else.

Fair point, although even small capital growth can more than make up
for mediocre rental returns. Also I'd steer well clear of city centre
2 bed "luxury apartments". These are notoriously overpriced, you're
competing with every other landlord in the block to get them let, and
they've been falling in value while the rest of the market has boomed.

Liverpool and Manchester promoted lots of new city centre blocks to get
middle class, high expendable income people in the centres. It worked.
There is a glut at the mo' with these. When the city centre industries
catch up and demand increases, the market for these will increase. Many
companies rent these out rather than stick people in hotels. Also, many of
these apartments will be sold off for owner/occupation.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:24:00 -0800, Man at B&Q wrote:


House prices aren't the only issue here though. You also have to
consider the rental returns

Agreed.

....(which are suffereing)

Not from my perspective rents are generally moving up as people find that
have to rent because they still can't afford to buy. Interest rate rises
have compounded the unaffordability of buying and so demand for rental is
waxing.


and whether your
money would be better somewhere else.

Probably, but property is
1) (At least most of ) it's own collateral.
2) less volatile that other investments


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:24:00 -0800, Man at B&Q wrote:


House prices aren't the only issue here though. You also have to
consider the rental returns

Agreed.

...(which are suffereing)

Not from my perspective rents are generally moving up as people find that
have to rent because they still can't afford to buy. Interest rate rises
have compounded the unaffordability of buying and so demand for rental is
waxing.


and whether your
money would be better somewhere else.

Probably, but property is
1) (At least most of ) it's own collateral.
2) less volatile that other investments


But highly illiquid.

Anita Palley wrote:
On 8 Nov, 13:35, mogga wrote:

www.housepricecrash.co.uk

Beware! That place is a support group for the dispossessed, not a
place for rational analysis of the housing market. A considerable
number of them sold up in 2003 and have been calling a crash everyday
since. I'd put about as much credence on their opinions as I would on
Foxtons.

PWC produce monthly roundups of the whole British Economy which are
pretty comprehensive, and rather better informed. Latest one is here,
see pp.22-26 on the housing market. Their "central" prediction is slow
growth. Their worst-case (5% probability) scenario is not a disaster.
http://www.pwc.co.uk/pdf/uk_economic_download_nov07.pdf


A situation in which rents do not cover mortgage repayments and the
capital growth of the asset doesn't either is a disaster in MY books.

Remember the dotcom boom? and bust ? well then it was THE place to be.
After it was the WORST place to be. Now its not a bad place to be.

Right now the best place to be is in emerging market and commodities
funds. Averaging about 30% p.a.

Property funds - 4 of the top 5 WORST performing funds over last year
have been property based = -30%.

On 8 Nov, 16:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Right now the best place to be is in emerging market and commodities
funds. Averaging about 30% p.a.

Property funds - 4 of the top 5 WORST performing funds over last year
have been property based = -30%.

Interesting! Do you have a link for this or any further information?
If you're talking about residential property that is spectacular
mismanagement. Whatever you think might happen over the next 12
months, to have lost 30% over the last 12 is bordering on criminal.

"Anita Palley" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 8 Nov, 13:35, mogga wrote:

www.housepricecrash.co.uk

Beware! That place is a support group for the dispossessed, not a
place for rational analysis of the housing market. A considerable
number of them sold up in 2003 and have been calling a crash everyday
since. I'd put about as much credence on their opinions as I would on
Foxtons.

PWC produce monthly roundups of the whole British Economy which are
pretty comprehensive, and rather better informed. Latest one is here,
see pp.22-26 on the housing market. Their "central" prediction is slow
growth. Their worst-case (5% probability) scenario is not a disaster.
http://www.pwc.co.uk/pdf/uk_economic_download_nov07.pdf

The house crash doomers are politically motivated. For 10 years I have
heard this and they are preying for one to get the government out. The
economy has been very well run over the past 10 years which irks the
opposition.

Phil Gardner wrote:
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.

Yes, you may have always wanted to do it.

However, that's not a valid reason to invest, unless you can afford to lose
(a fraction of the) money and walk away happy.

If you are relying on house prices continuing to increase to increase your
profits in the long term, I would - at least in the UK - walk away now.

If you've got a property with established paying long-term tenants that you're
buying, and can cope if the housing market stalls, or falls back a few
percent, then it may not be unreasonable.

How much research have you done into the rental market in the area in
question?

Ian Stirling wrote:
Phil Gardner wrote:
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.

Yes, you may have always wanted to do it.


Ive alway's wnated to own a racehorse, and a formula one team ;-)

However I would never expect either of them to be any more than very
expensive hobbies...which perhaps fortunately, I can't afford anyway.


However, that's not a valid reason to invest, unless you can afford to lose
(a fraction of the) money and walk away happy.

If you are relying on house prices continuing to increase to increase your
profits in the long term, I would - at least in the UK - walk away now.

If you've got a property with established paying long-term tenants that you're
buying, and can cope if the housing market stalls, or falls back a few
percent, then it may not be unreasonable.

How much research have you done into the rental market in the area in
question?

Phil Gardner wrote:
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.


This is about as bad a time as any to go into BTL.


--
Grunff

Phil Gardner wrote:
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.


Sensible chap.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this its
something I have always wanted to do.


Madness.
Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning to
question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.

Get out now.

Stick the money in a commodities specialist fund.

You will make more money with less hassle, and you can sell in a day if
needs be.


I am not registered under the FSA to give financial advice so do not sue
me if this turns sour on you ;-)

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 12:36:34 GMT Phil Gardner wrote :
I know this is a bit OT but
I am about to exchange contracts on my first buy to let property in
the next 3 weeks and im getting cold feet.

I have re-mortgaged my house to release the equity to pay for this
its something I have always wanted to do.

Due to the turmoil in the housing and finance market I am beginning
to question my judgment and timing
Is anyone on this forum in this business that could offer advice.

My only comment would be to say that the 'market' is lots of little
markets and what matters is the outlook in yours.

And as the other Tony has says, think about repair costs, voids, letting
costs and what happens if your tenant stops paying (it will take you
months to get legal possession). The problem with this being your first
is that if something goes wrong it is 100% of your BTL enterprise in
trouble. If you get to (say) properties and one goes bad/is empty then
it's much less destabilising.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

Nobody seems to have mentioned the ethics of BTL - the fact is that
it's a low form of capitalistic parasitism - hoping to earn money
merely by owning something that other people need. Providing a service
which nobody wants. Nobody loves a landlord, and BTL is a big factor
in cranking up house prices. Be warned - the bubble may burst at any
time and everybody will have a good laugh at the landlords in
difficulties.

Different if you were building new - that could be a useful thing to
do.

cheers
Jacob

On 8 Nov, 17:06, normanwisdom wrote:
Nobody seems to have mentioned the ethics of BTL - the fact is that
it's a low form of capitalistic parasitism - hoping to earn money
merely by owning something that other people need. Providing a service
which nobody wants. Nobody loves a landlord, and BTL is a big factor
in cranking up house prices. Be warned - the bubble may burst at any
time and everybody will have a good laugh at the landlords in
difficulties.

Different if you were building new - that could be a useful thing to
do.

cheers
Jacob
Or to put it another way - hoping to get an income of the backs of
people worse off than yourself who can't afford to buy houses. Should
be against the law!

roll on the revolution - landlords first to the wall!

cheers
Jacob

normanwisdom wrote:
On 8 Nov, 17:06, normanwisdom wrote:
Nobody seems to have mentioned the ethics of BTL - the fact is that
it's a low form of capitalistic parasitism - hoping to earn money
merely by owning something that other people need. Providing a service
which nobody wants. Nobody loves a landlord, and BTL is a big factor
in cranking up house prices. Be warned - the bubble may burst at any
time and everybody will have a good laugh at the landlords in
difficulties.

Different if you were building new - that could be a useful thing to
do.

cheers
Jacob
Or to put it another way - hoping to get an income of the backs of
people worse off than yourself who can't afford to buy houses. Should
be against the law!


Well tahts must be why Nu Laber hasn't built a single councl house in
years then.

roll on the revolution - landlords first to the wall!

After you then.


cheers
Jacob

normanwisdom wrote in message
ups.com...
On 8 Nov, 17:06, normanwisdom wrote:
Nobody seems to have mentioned the ethics of BTL - the fact is that
it's a low form of capitalistic parasitism - hoping to earn money
merely by owning something that other people need. Providing a service
which nobody wants. Nobody loves a landlord, and BTL is a big factor
in cranking up house prices. Be warned - the bubble may burst at any
time and everybody will have a good laugh at the landlords in
difficulties.

Different if you were building new - that could be a useful thing to
do.

cheers
Jacob
Or to put it another way - hoping to get an income of the backs of
people worse off than yourself who can't afford to buy houses. Should
be against the law!

roll on the revolution - landlords first to the wall!

Off you trot Trotsky, looking for the next state handout.


-

normanwisdom wrote:
Or to put it another way - hoping to get an income of the backs of
people worse off than yourself who can't afford to buy houses. Should
be against the law!

roll on the revolution - landlords first to the wall!

cheers
Jacob



We're not all like that.

Phil,

I own a flat which is let. It's in a University town (lots of students)
where property is fairly cheap and the rental return is good.

I am not making any profit. In fact, if you count the loss of interest
on the capital I put in, I'm making a loss. I have several reasons for
doing it. I might make capital profit on it. I have locked into a
possibly rising property market (and I think it will rise, long term if
not short term). I can afford to pay the mortgage even were it empty -
so I won't be forced into a sudden sale at a loss.

But it isn't going to be empty. I have a guaranteed tenant. One of
those 20-somethings who can't get on the housing ladder. One who has
been messed up by previous landlords, and I felt pity for him, with the
instability of annual rentals, impossibility of getting repairs and
trouble getting deposits back. A tenant I know quite well. My son.

He was a bit shocked when I told him I expected him to buy it off me one
day. The price will of course be the lowest I can get past the taxman...

Andy

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:06:45 -0800 Normanwisdom wrote :
Nobody seems to have mentioned the ethics of BTL - the fact is that
it's a low form of capitalistic parasitism - hoping to earn money
merely by owning something that other people need. Providing a service
which nobody wants.

Which lots of people want. If you rent, you know more or less exactly
what your outgoings are and you're free to move on at minimal cost if
you need to move for any reason. And you only need a three or four
figure deposit.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

On 8 Nov, 17:27, Tony Bryer wrote:
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:06:45 -0800 Normanwisdom wrote :

Nobody seems to have mentioned the ethics of BTL - the fact is that
it's a low form of capitalistic parasitism - hoping to earn money
merely by owning something that other people need. Providing a service
which nobody wants.

Which lots of people want. If you rent, you know more or less exactly
what your outgoings are and you're free to move on at minimal cost if
you need to move for any reason. And you only need a three or four
figure deposit.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

True there are those who need to rent in that sense but most do it
because they can't afford to buy - which is made worse by BTL boosting
prices. And many can't afford a 3 or4 figure deposite - and of those
that can many don't see it again. I've had 3 kids at Uni at various
times and they have all been ripped off by landlords not returning
deposites.

cheers
Jacob

On 2007-11-08 17:55:56 +0000, normanwisdom said:

On 8 Nov, 17:27, Tony Bryer wrote:
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:06:45 -0800 Normanwisdom wrote :

Nobody seems to have mentioned the ethics of BTL - the fact is that
it's a low form of capitalistic parasitism - hoping to earn money
merely by owning something that other people need. Providing a service
which nobody wants.

Which lots of people want. If you rent, you know more or less exactly
what your outgoings are and you're free to move on at minimal cost if
you need to move for any reason. And you only need a three or four
figure deposit.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

True there are those who need to rent in that sense but most do it
because they can't afford to buy - which is made worse by BTL boosting
prices. And many can't afford a 3 or4 figure deposite - and of those
that can many don't see it again. I've had 3 kids at Uni at various
times and they have all been ripped off by landlords not returning
deposites.

Notwithstanding the relative merits and demerits of BTL as an
investment; the private landlord in the university environment is a
good thing. If he attempts to be less than honest, then it provides
an excellent supplement to their education - i.e. how to recover a
legitimate debt.

The difference between undergraduate and graduate is effectively one
day. If they are mollycoddled until age 21 and enter the real world
without the skillset to handle a commercial deal, then they have been
done a disservice.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:55:56 -0800, normanwisdom wrote:

On 8 Nov, 17:27, Tony Bryer wrote:
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:06:45 -0800 Normanwisdom wrote :

Nobody seems to have mentioned the ethics of BTL - the fact is that
it's a low form of capitalistic parasitism - hoping to earn money
merely by owning something that other people need. Providing a service
which nobody wants.

Which lots of people want. If you rent, you know more or less exactly
what your outgoings are and you're free to move on at minimal cost if
you need to move for any reason. And you only need a three or four
figure deposit.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

True there are those who need to rent in that sense but most do it
because they can't afford to buy - which is made worse by BTL boosting
prices. And many can't afford a 3 or4 figure deposite - and of those
that can many don't see it again. I've had 3 kids at Uni at various
times and they have all been ripped off by landlords not returning
deposites.


Take said *******s to court. Anyway deposits are now protected.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Nov 8, 5:55 pm, normanwisdom wrote:
I've had 3 kids at Uni at various
times and they have all been ripped off by landlords not returning
deposites.


Should have told them to share with a law student.

MBQ