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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
"Charlie" wrote in message m... I'm thinking of letting my house on a lease to a housing association. I've had an initial inspection and one point they've raised is the need to move sockets from the skirting to a position above the skirting. What are the regulations covering this? Health & Safety become usually become involved with anything which is not owner occupier. Socket positioning usually for convenince and baby safety. Chances are I will need to replace the wiring at the same time, 1)because theres unlikely to be enough slack 2)because the instalation is old. Any hints and tips on doing this? There's never any slack - Leccys don't think that way. Assuming the cable is ok, would it be acceptable to make connections below the floor to extend the cables, so they reach above the skirting, in a junction box for example? Junctions must be accessible for inspection It occurs to me that the simplest way is to install brand new ring circuits and then connect up to the consumer box when complete, at the same time removing old connections and then removing the old cables/sockets. Yep, also put in a modern split CU which has RCD protection On a seperate issue the lighting circuit is old, but with new(ish) switches, so it looks ok. The wires to the switches are in metal trunking. What are the dangers in not replacing this? Lighting must have earth wiring, old conduit (trunking) wiring usually relies on the conduit itself to provide the earth and it's often done very badly. |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
"Charlie" wrote in message
m... It occurs to me that the simplest way is to install brand new ring circuits and then connect up to the consumer box when complete, at the same time removing old connections and then removing the old cables/sockets. Assuming you have metal back boxes and large holes in the skirting board, I wouldn't expect to be able to reuse the boxes, and you will also want new skirting board. Making a route for the cable with the old skirting in place might be time consuming. |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
In message ,
(Charlie) wrote: I'm thinking of letting my house on a lease to a housing association. I've had an initial inspection and one point they've raised is the need to move sockets from the skirting to a position above the skirting. What are the regulations covering this? BS7671:2001 Requirements for Electrical Installations (IEE Wiring Regulations Sixteenth Edition). Height of sockets AND switches governed by Building Regulations part M - to be installed between 450mm and 1200mm above floor level, though there are excemptions for rooms such as kitchens where sockets are installed above worksurfaces. Part M concerns itself with "access", e.g. for disabled persons, and also insists on things like "level" access to the main entrance, and a wheelchair-accessible downstairs loo in newly-built or renovated houses. Chances are I will need to replace the wiring at the same time, 1)because theres unlikely to be enough slack 2)because the instalation is old. Any hints and tips on doing this? If you have no experience of electrical work, and *especially* if you are planning on letting out the house you *must* get advice (and preferably help) from a competent person. Assuming the cable is ok, would it be acceptable to make connections below the floor to extend the cables, so they reach above the skirting, in a junction box for example? Possibly, but bad practice and much easier to install new circuits from scratch: It occurs to me that the simplest way is to install brand new ring circuits and then connect up to the consumer box when complete, at the same time removing old connections and then removing the old cables/sockets. Absolutely. Install a new CU as well. On a seperate issue the lighting circuit is old, but with new(ish) switches, so it looks ok. The wires to the switches are in metal trunking. What are the dangers in not replacing this? If the earth is provided through the trunking then the chances are that over the years it has become non-continuous, especially if d-i-y work has been done. Modern lighting circuits must have an earth. Oh yes, and all your switches must be no more than 1200mm above the floor (see above). If the intallation is relatively old (as you suggest) you *might* find that you also need to; Install RCD protection of some or all circuits (depends on your earthing arrangements - take advice). Install mains powered, linked smoke alarms. Possibly even a fire alarm if this is to be a commercial venture (ask the housing association). Upgrade the earthing and bonding of the premises - electrically connecting metal items in kitchens and bathrooms and gas and water services. Install ventillation equipment (extractor fans) in kitchen, bathroom and downstairs loo. Get the entire installation tested, checked and certified by a competent person using the appropriate test methods and equipment. And probably a lot of stuff I haven't thought of. Overall, the best thing to do would probably be to get the whole place rewired. You may wish to give this job in its entirety to an electrical contractor, but you may wish to d-i-y some of it. If the latter is the case then see if you can find a small local contractor who is willing to do the design and the "important" stuff but leave the pulling of cables and lifting of floorboards to you. But speak first to the housing association to find out what their minimum standards would be. HTH Hwyl! M. -- Martin Angove (it's Cornish for "Smith") - ARM/Digital SA110 RPC See the Aber Valley -- http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/abervalley.html .... Children: Pure love contained in soft packages. |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
What are the regulations covering this?
BS7671:2001 Requirements for Electrical Installations (IEE Wiring Regulations Sixteenth Edition). Height of sockets AND switches governed by Building Regulations part M - to be installed between 450mm and 1200mm above floor level, though there are excemptions for rooms such as kitchens where sockets are installed above worksurfaces. Part M concerns itself with "access", e.g. for disabled persons, and also insists on things like "level" access to the main entrance, and a wheelchair-accessible downstairs loo in newly-built or renovated houses. This applies to new buildings only. You can place the sockets at any height you wish when doing a rewire as long as they can be used safely (i.e. not usually on skirting as it causes the cable from the plug to be under stress). Adam |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
In message ,
"ARWadsworth" wrote: What are the regulations covering this? BS7671:2001 Requirements for Electrical Installations (IEE Wiring Regulations Sixteenth Edition). Height of sockets AND switches governed by Building Regulations part M - to be installed between 450mm and 1200mm above floor level, though there are excemptions for rooms such as kitchens where sockets are installed above worksurfaces. Part M concerns itself with "access", e.g. for disabled persons, and also insists on things like "level" access to the main entrance, and a wheelchair-accessible downstairs loo in newly-built or renovated houses. This applies to new buildings only. You can place the sockets at any height you wish when doing a rewire as long as they can be used safely (i.e. not usually on skirting as it causes the cable from the plug to be under stress). Realised it didn't apply to simple rewires, but I thought it did apply to renovations. Mind you I've only just downloaded part M (12 meg!) and haven't read it yet. Is it possible that the housing association have in mind the possibility of putting tenants in the house who need some of these adaptations? It was just that apparently *they* mentioned it so I thought it might be relevant. If you're going to rewire and as part of that move sockets, why not make sure all the switches are also within the band? Hwyl! Martin. -- Martin Angove (it's Cornish for "Smith") - ARM/Digital SA110 RPC See the Aber Valley -- http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/abervalley.html .... Never attribute to malice that which may be explained by stupidty. |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
In message ,
parish parish_AT_ntlworld.com wrote: ARWadsworth wrote: What are the regulations covering this? BS7671:2001 Requirements for Electrical Installations (IEE Wiring Regulations Sixteenth Edition). Height of sockets AND switches governed by Building Regulations part M - to be installed between 450mm and 1200mm above floor level, though When did this come into effect? In my 8 year old house the sockets are 350-400mm above the floor (to the *top* of the socket). Building Regulations, approved document M, 1999. I haven't read it yet, so I know no more. It is available to download from http://www.safety.odpm.gov.uk/bregs/brads.htm along with the others but whereas newer documents have been done properly, older ones (part M included) are simply scans of the printed documents and are hence *huge* PDF downloads. Part M comes to some 12 meg. there are excemptions for rooms such as kitchens where sockets are installed above worksurfaces. Part M concerns itself with "access", e.g. for disabled persons, and also insists on things like "level" access to the main entrance, and a wheelchair-accessible downstairs loo in newly-built or renovated houses. This applies to new buildings only. You can place the sockets at any height you wish when doing a rewire as long as they can be used safely (i.e. not I take it an extension would be classed as a new building? How strictly would these dimensions be enforced? The reason I ask is that one of the rooms in the extension we are having built will be an office/study and I want the sockets placed just above the skirting (bottom of the socket about an inch above the skirting) because the modesty panels fitted to office desks obscure even my existing sockets so, to plug/unplug anything, I have to grovel about on the floor under the desk reaching up behind the panel, i.e. doing it blind. I consider this a hazard as I can't get to the sockets to switch off/unplug quickly if I need to in an emergency. usually on skirting as it causes the cable from the plug to be under stress). What it says in the On Site Guide (to the 16th Edition Wiring regulations) is: "The Building Regulations require switches and socket-outlets in dwellings to be installed so that all persons including those whose reach is limited can easily use them. A way of satisfying the requirement is to install switches and socket-outlets in habitable rooms at a height of between 450mm and 1200mm from the finished floor level... Unless the dwelling is for persons whose reach is limited the requirements would not apply to kitchens and garages but specifically only to rooms that visitors would normally use." This probably lets you off the hook unless you or another family member who is likely to use the study/office has "limited reach", or visitors make use of the study. More than that I cannot say, though if switching access (for emergency use or otherwise) is a problem to you, have you considered wiring the office with remote switching of the sockets somewhere more accessible? You could use the switchbanks such as are commonly used for built-in kitchen appliances, using the outputs of the switches to feed sockets. Shouldn't be vastly more expensive. It doesn't solve the problem of access should you wish to unplug something though. Having said that, if the desk is to go against a wall, a: aren't you running the risk of kicking a socket placed at skirting board height and b: why not simply remove the modesty panel? Hwyl! M. -- Martin Angove (it's Cornish for "Smith") - ARM/Digital SA110 RPC See the Aber Valley -- http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/abervalley.html .... I've got 256K of RAM, so why can't I run Windows 3.1? |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
"parish" parish_AT_ntlworld.com wrote in message ... ARWadsworth wrote: What are the regulations covering this? BS7671:2001 Requirements for Electrical Installations (IEE Wiring Regulations Sixteenth Edition). Height of sockets AND switches governed by Building Regulations part M - to be installed between 450mm and 1200mm above floor level, though When did this come into effect? In my 8 year old house the sockets are 350-400mm above the floor (to the *top* of the socket). there are excemptions for rooms such as kitchens where sockets are installed above worksurfaces. Part M concerns itself with "access", e.g. for disabled persons, and also insists on things like "level" access to the main entrance, and a wheelchair-accessible downstairs loo in newly-built or renovated houses. This applies to new buildings only. You can place the sockets at any height you wish when doing a rewire as long as they can be used safely (i.e. not I take it an extension would be classed as a new building? How strictly would these dimensions be enforced? The reason I ask is that one of the rooms in the extension we are having built will be an office/study and I want the sockets placed just above the skirting (bottom of the socket about an inch above the skirting) because the modesty panels fitted to office desks obscure even my existing sockets so, to plug/unplug anything, I have to grovel about on the floor under the desk reaching up behind the panel, i.e. doing it blind. I consider this a hazard as I can't get to the sockets to switch off/unplug quickly if I need to in an emergency. usually on skirting as it causes the cable from the plug to be under stress). Adam The sockets you want are above the skirting, I see no problem. When sockets are mounted on the skirting they are usually so low down (they had some great ideas in the 60's) that there is no way to insert a normal plug without stress on the flex connected to the plug. The M (disabled) regs came into use in 2001 I think. Adam |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
"Martin Angove" wrote
| Building Regulations, approved document M, 1999. I haven't read it yet, | so I know no more. It is available to download from | http://www.safety.odpm.gov.uk/bregs/brads.htm along with the others but | whereas newer documents have been done properly, older ones (part M | included) are simply scans of the printed documents and are hence *huge* | PDF downloads. Part M comes to some 12 meg. They should supply you with a text or otherwise accessible format pretty quickly if you point out to their webmaster the Disability Discrimination Act. Owain |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
Martin Angove wrote:
What it says in the On Site Guide (to the 16th Edition Wiring regulations) is: "The Building Regulations require switches and socket-outlets in dwellings to be installed so that all persons including those whose reach is limited can easily use them. A way of satisfying the requirement is to install switches and socket-outlets in habitable rooms at a height of between 450mm and 1200mm from the finished floor level... Unless the dwelling is for persons whose reach is limited the requirements would not apply to kitchens and garages but specifically only to rooms that visitors would normally use." This probably lets you off the hook unless you or another family member who is likely to use the study/office has "limited reach", or visitors Ah, a loophole :-) Nope, no-one here with "limited reach" and the door will bear a sign, "Off-limits to the female of the spieces", so that just leaves me. make use of the study. More than that I cannot say, though if switching access (for emergency use or otherwise) is a problem to you, have you considered wiring the office with remote switching of the sockets somewhere more accessible? You could use the switchbanks such as are commonly used for built-in kitchen appliances, using the outputs of the switches to feed sockets. Shouldn't be vastly more expensive. It doesn't solve the problem of access should you wish to unplug something though. Having said that, if the desk is to go against a wall, a: aren't you running the risk of kicking a socket placed at skirting board height and b: why not simply remove the modesty panel? I've got size 11 feet so the modesty panel should protect the sockets from them. As for removing the panels, all the desks (it will be a corner desk) I've (dis)assemled use them to brace the legs; remove them and the desk will sway, plus the fact I intend to put a shelf on the inside of one for the computer and clip all the cables (anyone remember the good old days when PCs had only 3 cables?) to the face of the panels to route them neatly. Hwyl! M. |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
In message ,
"Owain" wrote: "Martin Angove" wrote | Building Regulations, approved document M, 1999. I haven't read it yet, | so I know no more. It is available to download from | http://www.safety.odpm.gov.uk/bregs/brads.htm along with the others but | whereas newer documents have been done properly, older ones (part M | included) are simply scans of the printed documents and are hence *huge* | PDF downloads. Part M comes to some 12 meg. They should supply you with a text or otherwise accessible format pretty quickly if you point out to their webmaster the Disability Discrimination Act. Well you can of course obtain copies of the approved documents in paper form from HMSO, but the thing is that they cost loads of money. If I dial in after 6, even 12M is effectively "free" unless I choose to print it out :-) It just means no-one can ring in for the 30 minutes (or so) it takes to download at 33k6. Hwyl! M. -- Martin Angove (it's Cornish for "Smith") - ARM/Digital SA110 RPC See the Aber Valley -- http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/abervalley.html .... Boldly going Forward because we can't find Reverse! |
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
Martin Angove wrote:
In message , parish parish_AT_ntlworld.com wrote: ARWadsworth wrote: What are the regulations covering this? BS7671:2001 Requirements for Electrical Installations (IEE Wiring Regulations Sixteenth Edition). Height of sockets AND switches governed by Building Regulations part M - to be installed between 450mm and 1200mm above floor level, though When did this come into effect? In my 8 year old house the sockets are 350-400mm above the floor (to the *top* of the socket). Building Regulations, approved document M, 1999. I haven't read it yet, so I know no more. It is available to download from http://www.safety.odpm.gov.uk/bregs/brads.htm along with the others but whereas newer documents have been done properly, older ones (part M included) are simply scans of the printed documents and are hence *huge* PDF downloads. Part M comes to some 12 meg. Thanks for the link. I just grabbed a copy (fortunately I've got ADSL so it only took ~3 mins), and it appears that I won't have any problems as section 0.3 states: "0.3 If an existing building, other than a dwelling (note extensios to dwellings are excluded from Part M), is extended....." So none of it applies in my case :-) there are excemptions for rooms such as kitchens where sockets are installed above worksurfaces. Part M concerns itself with "access", e.g. for disabled persons, and also insists on things like "level" access to the main entrance, and a wheelchair-accessible downstairs loo in newly-built or renovated houses. This applies to new buildings only. You can place the sockets at any height you wish when doing a rewire as long as they can be used safely (i.e. not I take it an extension would be classed as a new building? How strictly would these dimensions be enforced? The reason I ask is that one of the rooms in the extension we are having built will be an office/study and I want the sockets placed just above the skirting (bottom of the socket about an inch above the skirting) because the modesty panels fitted to office desks obscure even my existing sockets so, to plug/unplug anything, I have to grovel about on the floor under the desk reaching up behind the panel, i.e. doing it blind. I consider this a hazard as I can't get to the sockets to switch off/unplug quickly if I need to in an emergency. usually on skirting as it causes the cable from the plug to be under stress). What it says in the On Site Guide (to the 16th Edition Wiring regulations) is: "The Building Regulations require switches and socket-outlets in dwellings to be installed so that all persons including those whose reach is limited can easily use them. A way of satisfying the requirement is to install switches and socket-outlets in habitable rooms at a height of between 450mm and 1200mm from the finished floor level... Unless the dwelling is for persons whose reach is limited the requirements would not apply to kitchens and garages but specifically only to rooms that visitors would normally use." This probably lets you off the hook unless you or another family member who is likely to use the study/office has "limited reach", or visitors make use of the study. More than that I cannot say, though if switching access (for emergency use or otherwise) is a problem to you, have you considered wiring the office with remote switching of the sockets somewhere more accessible? You could use the switchbanks such as are commonly used for built-in kitchen appliances, using the outputs of the switches to feed sockets. Shouldn't be vastly more expensive. It doesn't solve the problem of access should you wish to unplug something though. Having said that, if the desk is to go against a wall, a: aren't you running the risk of kicking a socket placed at skirting board height and b: why not simply remove the modesty panel? Hwyl! M. |
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#13
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Moving Electric Sockets from skirting to wall
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