What does the group recommend for a new combi boiler.

Four bed det house with proposed kitchen extension (small). Presently eight
rads but probably need at least two more. MUST have a good output to shower,
I hate puny showers.

Many thanks

Jb

"Jb" wrote in message
...
What does the group recommend for a new combi boiler.

Four bed det house with proposed kitchen extension (small). Presently
eight rads but probably need at least two more. MUST have a good output to
shower, I hate puny showers.

Many thanks

High flow models available:

Wall mounted:
Alpha CD 50
Glow Worm Extramax

Floor mounted:
Viessmann 333
Worcester Bosch 440 Highflow
Vokera
ACV HeatMaster
Atmos Multi
Gledhill Gulfstream
Ideal Istore
Potterton Powermax
...and so on...

Your mains must have enough pressure and flow. Test it.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Jb" wrote in message
...
What does the group recommend for a new combi boiler.

Four bed det house with proposed kitchen extension (small). Presently
eight rads but probably need at least two more. MUST have a good output
to shower, I hate puny showers.

Many thanks

High flow models available:

Wall mounted:
Alpha CD 50
Glow Worm Extramax

Floor mounted:
Viessmann 333
Worcester Bosch 440 Highflow
Vokera
ACV HeatMaster
Atmos Multi
Gledhill Gulfstream
Ideal Istore
Potterton Powermax
..and so on...

Your mains must have enough pressure and flow. Test it.

Thanks, I should have added that I want it fitted in the loft space and will
be using a wireless programmer.

I have no idea how to test water pressure but i live half way down a good
hill so it seems quite good to me.

i have googled till i'm totally confused so i was hoping for specific brand
recommendations base on experience.

Thnaks
Jb

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Jb" wrote in message
...
What does the group recommend for a new combi boiler.

Four bed det house with proposed kitchen extension (small). Presently
eight rads but probably need at least two more. MUST have a good output
to shower, I hate puny showers.

Many thanks

High flow models available:

Wall mounted:
Alpha CD 50
Glow Worm Extramax

Floor mounted:
Viessmann 333
Worcester Bosch 440 Highflow
Vokera
ACV HeatMaster
Atmos Multi
Gledhill Gulfstream
Ideal Istore
Potterton Powermax
..and so on...

Your mains must have enough pressure and flow. Test it.

Thanks. I should have added that I want it fitting in the loft space and
will be using a wireless programmer.

I don't know that water pressure but living half way down a good hill it
seems pretty good to me.

I have Googled till I'm totally confused, i was hoping for brand
recommendations based on experince.

Thanks
Jb

Jb wrote:

Thanks. I should have added that I want it fitting in the loft space and
will be using a wireless programmer.

On a gable wall? That will probably rule out any of the storage models
since they are fairly heavy.

If your primary requirement is a shower, then a 35kW combi without
storage will deliver 15 lpm even in the winter, which is usually
adequate for most showers unless you want body jets or drencher heads etc.

I don't know that water pressure but living half way down a good hill it
seems pretty good to me.

Test the flow rate using a stop watch and a bucket. Unless you cold main
can deliver 20 lpm or better you may find any combi a bit disappointing.

I have Googled till I'm totally confused, i was hoping for brand
recommendations based on experince.

Its hard to give anything other than anecdotal accounts which don't
really have any statistical significance. I fitted a Idea Isar HE35 a
few years ago, and it has worked very well since - small and neat, good
on showers, and borderline acceptable for baths. Most people seem to
have reasonable experiences with Worcester Bosch and Valiant as well.
The general rule is you get what you pay for. If you have not read it
then have a look at Ed's boiler choice FAQ. Link in the article he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Boilers


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Jb" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Jb" wrote in message
...
What does the group recommend for a new combi boiler.

Four bed det house with proposed kitchen extension (small). Presently
eight rads but probably need at least two more. MUST have a good output
to shower, I hate puny showers.

Many thanks

High flow models available:

Wall mounted:
Alpha CD 50
Glow Worm Extramax

Floor mounted:
Viessmann 333
Worcester Bosch 440 Highflow
Vokera
ACV HeatMaster
Atmos Multi
Gledhill Gulfstream
Ideal Istore
Potterton Powermax
..and so on...

Your mains must have enough pressure and flow. Test it.

Thanks, I should have added that I want it fitted in the loft space and
will be using a wireless programmer.

I have no idea how to test water pressure but i live half way down a good
hill so it seems quite good to me.

i have googled till i'm totally confused so i was hoping for specific
brand recommendations base on experience.

If you can get them in the loft and the floor can hold the weight then the
floor models are good, especially: Viessmann, Atmos, ACV may be way too big.
The Powermax breaks down for lifting into the loft.

The wall mounted: the Alpha. Measure your flowrate by timing a bucket fill
in litres per minute.

If you are DIYing then: Viessmann 333, Vokera, Worcester-Bosch, Gledhill.
The Viesssman and Gledhill are he better.

The ACV, Viessmann, Gledhill and Atmos are very good but expensive, so you
get what you pay for.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jb wrote:

Thanks. I should have added that I want it fitting in the loft space and
will be using a wireless programmer.

On a gable wall? That will probably rule out any of the storage models
since they are fairly heavy.

You mean wall mounted. The wall can have steel straps bolted to the wall
from top to bottom. Put the combi between the straps, or better directly on
them. Cheap enough.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jb wrote:

Thanks. I should have added that I want it fitting in the loft space and
will be using a wireless programmer.

On a gable wall? That will probably rule out any of the storage models
since they are fairly heavy.

You mean wall mounted. The wall can have steel straps bolted to the wall
from top to bottom. Put the combi between the straps, or better directly
on them. Cheap enough.

Thanks chaps. I have asked BG (six local plumbers never even bothered to
quote or turn up for appointments) for a quote but £2600 for what looks like
the smallest and cheapest on the market seems a tad to high. I don't mind
paying but I'd like to think I'm getting a reasonable deal.
I asked this question because I'm toying with the idea of buying it, DIY and
asking a corgi mate of mine to do the gas bits.

"Jb" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jb wrote:

Thanks. I should have added that I want it fitting in the loft space
and will be using a wireless programmer.

On a gable wall? That will probably rule out any of the storage models
since they are fairly heavy.

You mean wall mounted. The wall can have steel straps bolted to the wall
from top to bottom. Put the combi between the straps, or better directly
on them. Cheap enough.

Thanks chaps. I have asked BG (six local plumbers never even bothered to
quote or turn up for appointments) for a quote but £2600 for what looks
like the smallest and cheapest on the market seems a tad to high. I don't
mind paying but I'd like to think I'm getting a reasonable deal.
I asked this question because I'm toying with the idea of buying it, DIY
and asking a corgi mate of mine to do the gas bits.

Depends on the flowrate you want. How many baths, showers, etc? A Glow Worm
38kW or Worcester-Bosch 40kW, may be fine. If you want a DIYable high flow
boiler then the list I gave as they have thermal stores inside not unvented
cylinders which need G3 certified installer. If going in the loft you may
have to enlarge the hatch. Make sure there is boarding to the hatch and
around the boiler, a bright light, shoot down ladder and if near the hatch,
then a rail around it of some sort.

Depends on the flowrate you want. How many baths, showers, etc? A Glow
Worm 38kW or Worcester-Bosch 40kW, may be fine. If you want a DIYable
high flow boiler then the list I gave as they have thermal stores inside
not unvented cylinders which need G3 certified installer. If going in the
loft you may have to enlarge the hatch. Make sure there is boarding to
the hatch and around the boiler, a bright light, shoot down ladder and if
near the hatch, then a rail around it of some sort.

Thanks, I like the look of the Bosch and may go for that. the loft work is
no prob, most of it is done. I'd really like an unvented system but they are
way out of my budget.

Thanks again

Jb

"Jb" wrote in message
...
Depends on the flowrate you want. How many baths, showers, etc? A Glow
Worm 38kW or Worcester-Bosch 40kW, may be fine. If you want a DIYable
high flow boiler then the list I gave as they have thermal stores inside
not unvented cylinders which need G3 certified installer. If going in
the loft you may have to enlarge the hatch. Make sure there is boarding
to the hatch and around the boiler, a bright light, shoot down ladder and
if near the hatch, then a rail around it of some sort.

Thanks, I like the look of the Bosch and may go for that. the loft work is
no prob, most of it is done. I'd really like an unvented system but they
are way out of my budget.


The W-B 40 kW or the Highflow 440 will do. Highflow is floor mounted and a
higher flowrate like an unvented system.

Jb wrote:

Thanks, I like the look of the Bosch and may go for that. the loft work is
no prob, most of it is done. I'd really like an unvented system but they are
way out of my budget.

How about a thermal store or heat bank system? The advantages of
unvented, without the complexities and price of unvented systems:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Heat_bank

You can DIY one easy enough:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=DIY_Heat_Bank


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Jb wrote:

Thanks, I like the look of the Bosch and may go for that. the loft work
is no prob, most of it is done. I'd really like an unvented system but
they are way out of my budget.

How about a thermal store or heat bank system? The advantages of unvented,
without the complexities and price of unvented systems:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Heat_bank

You can DIY one easy enough:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=DIY_Heat_Bank

Best do it this way:

Read http://www.heatweb.com for an explanation of how heat banks work

1. Fit a Surrey type of flange in the top tapping of cylinder. 1" if you
can.

2. The plate heat exchanger connects to the Surrey flange port that is
immersed in the cylinder water. Drill a few holes in the protruding tube
that goes into the water to ensure heat is extracted from cylinders dome,
not being pumped to the bottom of the cylinder. The protruding tube has a
plate over the end to stop the water heat right to the bottom of the
cylinder.

3. The boiler flow is taken from the other connection of the Surrey flange
on the top of the cylinder. The return into the old cold feed tapping.

4. From the Surrey to the plate and then to the pump the to a spring loaded
check valve and back into the bottom cylinder port. Make a diffuser by
inserting 22mm pipe into the bottom cylinder port and drilling holes in and
stopping up the end with an internal pipe stop (available from BES). File
down the inside of a brass compression fitting that screws to the cylinder
port, removing the pipe stop so the pipe can go straight through. This will
spread the returning water mainly down, so it will not upset stratification
in the cylinder.

5. Two cylinder stats can be used to give a long efficient boiler recovery
burn. One stat about half way up and the other about 25% of the way up the
cylinder. Set bottom say to 70-80C, set top say to 60-65C. The stats must be
latched in with a relay.

6. The cold mains direct from the cold mains stoptap with no tee offs. Take
into the flow switch then into the bottom connection of the plate heat
exchanger and then to the DHW blending valve.

7. Have thermostatic shower mixers and take the hot supply for these
directly off the plate heat exchanger "before the TMV (blending valve). No
need to run DHW through two thermostatic mixers.

8. Install a phosphor de-scalar on the incoming mains pipe.

9. Install isolation valves on heavy usage appliances such as the washing
machine, and throttle back so it will not rob showers and baths of hot
water.

10. Have the F&E tank top up at the bottom of the cylinder and vent at the
top. You may want to vent from the boiler flow pipe.

11. Fill with inhibitor - about 1% of total system volume. An average system
is approx 100 litres, so a system has one 1 litre can. If say 150 litre
cylinder then two cans for the cylinder alone, which is three.

12. Fit a Magnaclean filter on the rads return pipe to the boiler.

The performance is brilliant and you will be delighted with the mains fed
showers and no vibrating power shower pump noise. High pressure mixers can
be on all appliances.

Gledhill will supply a Plate Heat X. The model for the 145 litre Systemate
will do. If you can get another cheaper source then try them. A 100kW plate
heat exchanger is needed

http://www.bes.co.uk or Screwfix will supply most of the fittings. They
don't do the plate heat exchangers.

Farnell will supply the flow switch http://www.farnell.co.uk Farnell
number: 1006771 with 22mm compression joints.

Flow Switch, makers site: The FS06
http://www.gentechsensors.com/produc...asp?ProdId=113
This flow switch is about the best - very good.

If the boiler requires to be in a sealed system then have a cylinder with a
quick recovery coil, the boiler heats this ASAP. Most boilers can be fitted
to an open vented system.

John Rumm wrote:

You can DIY one easy enough:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=DIY_Heat_Bank

"Easy"? ummm ... Right from the fag packet schematic it seems
to be an article to demonstrate how smart the author is, not a usable
howto guide.

"OldBill" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

You can DIY one easy enough:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=DIY_Heat_Bank

"Easy"? ummm ... Right from the fag packet schematic it seems
to be an article to demonstrate how smart the author is, not a usable
howto guide.

Use my method, it is easier.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"OldBill" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

You can DIY one easy enough:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=DIY_Heat_Bank

"Easy"? ummm ... Right from the fag packet schematic it seems
to be an article to demonstrate how smart the author is, not a usable
howto guide.

Use my method, it is easier.

Wow... thanks.. Now I'm back at square one!! lol.
Read the Heatweb site and if all they claim is true it looks like the
answer. From what I can see I can move my hot water tank into loft, use a
100kW heat exchanger and it gives me a virtual combi boiler with full mains
pressure on the hot water. I will be having words with them Monday.

Thanks for the info and the links I think I will be making full use of them

Jb

"Jb" wrote in message
news

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"OldBill" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

You can DIY one easy enough:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=DIY_Heat_Bank

"Easy"? ummm ... Right from the fag packet schematic it seems
to be an article to demonstrate how smart the author is, not a usable
howto guide.

Use my method, it is easier.

Wow... thanks.. Now I'm back at square one!! lol.
Read the Heatweb site and if all they claim is true it looks like the
answer. From what I can see I can move my hot water tank into loft, use a
100kW heat exchanger and it gives me a virtual combi boiler with full
mains pressure on the hot water. I will be having words with them Monday.

It give "very" high flowates, similar, if not better, than an unvented
cylinder (Megaflo). To DIY follow my instructions and ask Qs here. You
will save a wedge DIYing. In the loft the pipework is hidden, so no 100%
pro job is essential.

In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

"OldBill" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

You can DIY one easy enough:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=DIY_Heat_Bank

"Easy"? ummm ... Right from the fag packet schematic it seems
to be an article to demonstrate how smart the author is, not a
usable howto guide.

Use my method, it is easier.

Yes, but they don't want the house flooded out


--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

"OldBill" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

You can DIY one easy enough:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=DIY_Heat_Bank

"Easy"? ummm ... Right from the fag packet schematic it seems
to be an article to demonstrate how smart the author is, not a usable
howto guide.

Use my method, it is easier.

Yes, but they don't want the house flooded out

Maxie, unlike your pipes, there are no open ends on this system. Although
provision can be incorporated if they so wish. Maxie, do you still sound
like a 500 Norton on backfire?

In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message
enews.net, Doctor
Drivel writes

"OldBill" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

You can DIY one easy enough:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=DIY_Heat_Bank

"Easy"? ummm ... Right from the fag packet schematic it seems
to be an article to demonstrate how smart the author is, not a
usable howto guide.

Use my method, it is easier.

Yes, but they don't want the house flooded out

Maxie, unlike your pipes, there are no open ends on this system.
Although provision can be incorporated if they so wish. Maxie, do you
still sound like a 500 Norton on backfire?

WTF are you on about ?

... forgot to take your medicine again ?

--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...

Maxie, do you still sound like a 500 Norton on backfire?

WTF are you on about ?

Now Maxie!!!! You are famed for passing bowl wind as loud as a 500 Norton.
Have you progressed to a BSA Thunderbolt on backfire?