Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly for
use in different cars ?? Thanks E

In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

I also doubt many individuals have experience of all types so for that you
need a magazine review - try Which etc.

I can say I'm very happy with my Tom tom 510 - I chose it for the slightly
larger screen and better looks than some of the budget models.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly for
use in different cars ?? Thanks E


Ed, have a look at uk.rec.gps and alt.satellite.gps.garmin I find these
(by which I mean their posters) very knowledgeable and helpfully. At the
moment there is a thread "comparison of car GPS units" that may help you.

Ed coughed up some electrons that declared:

Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I have a Garmin Nuvi 310 (got a good discount from Halfords in Tonbridge,
but that can be probably matched buying online).

Firstly, word of warning: The first went back to Halfords because it lost
its voice - they swapped the box and I got a free upgrade from v8 to v9 of
the mapping software.

However, the traffic module didn't work and I didn't notice for a while, so
it had to be RMA'd back to Garmin.

On the plus side, they did get me a new box out in a few days, with another
minor map upgrade.

They did have a run of known problems with their traffic module, hopefully
they've learnt from that as the new one is pretty perfect.

Now the negatives are out of the way, the unit is small, transferrable and
very good at what it does. It comes with maps for the whole of western
europe and a few central european countries. If you buy a 2GB SD card you
can get the whole lot into the unit at once.

The address lookup and map detail beat much of the competion in my opinion
(I tested each major make with a small obscure place in Devon I stayed at 2
years ago - some units weren't aware of the existence of "Throwleigh").

The other reason I chose it was that the price was fully inclusive - all the
maps on CD are ready to use without shelling out extra for activation
codes) and the traffic unit comes with a lifetime subscription to the RAC
TrafficMaster system (those blue cameras on poles you see everywhere) and
also to the French system IIRC.

The unit can be used hand held on its batteries for a couple of hours which
is occasionally useful.

Oh, and it (like most of the others) can take downloadable points of
interest, and there are some nice sites on the web for downloading POI data
for genuine POI's and speed camera POIs for the UK and Europe. The traffic
module works in France and Belgium (at least that's where I've been with
it).

I would buy that series of unit again, accepting that I got unlucky with bad
hardware - that can happen with any manufacturer, but Garmin did prove
themselves capable of sorting it out.

On the other hand, if you happen to have a suitable PDA lying around, then
you might consider a GPS module, dash mount and software for that.

HTH

Tim

Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and
possibly for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

We got this one a while ago & I'm pleased with it. You need to take the in
car charger with you - the battery doesn't last that long - about 3 hours,
don't know how that compares wih other nakes.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...20NAV&doy=11m8

Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

But some cars require external aerials due to having athermic
heat-reflecting windscreens and built-in windscreen heaters which can block
GPS signal reception.
The OP has already posted this request on
alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains, had several answers and then chose
to ask the same question again on the same thread 12 hours later so I doubt
he'll be back to pick up the responses.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:56:32 +0100, "Steven Campbell" spam@way
mused:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

But some cars require external aerials due to having athermic
heat-reflecting windscreens and built-in windscreen heaters which can block
GPS signal reception.

Not neccesarily external aerials. My sat nav had trouble getting a fix
if the receiver was on the dash but I used a remote aerial located at
the top of the a pillar inside the car and it was fine.

The OP has already posted this request on
alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains, had several answers and then chose
to ask the same question again on the same thread 12 hours later so I doubt
he'll be back to pick up the responses.

People are annoying.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and
possibly for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

We got this one a while ago & I'm pleased with it. You need to take the in
car charger with you - the battery doesn't last that long - about 3 hours,
don't know how that compares wih other nakes.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...20NAV&doy=11m8

Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257


Being hard of hearing the voice ones are a pointless for me. Anyway, I
use my Garmin 60CSX mainly for walking, using it now and again in the
car. The reception with it's internal aerial is fine and the batteries
last for about 8 hours, a spare set and rechargeable would be fine.

Steven Campbell wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E
I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

But some cars require external aerials due to having athermic
heat-reflecting windscreens and built-in windscreen heaters which can block
GPS signal reception.
The OP has already posted this request on
alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains, had several answers and then chose
to ask the same question again on the same thread 12 hours later so I doubt
he'll be back to pick up the responses.




Still its interesting, cost its a toy I will one day purchase.

I saw an interesting program on hill walking..the man who was using one
carried THREE..because he said that at indeterminate times one or more
wouldn't give the same reading as the others. As long as he had two in
agreement he was happy.

Mys sister brought hers over from Germany. I wasn't THAT good frankly.
It seemed to know where it was mostly, but its sense of direction on UK
roads was a bit flawed..

On 2007-08-11 07:32:19 +0100, "Ed" said:

Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly for
use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I use TomTom software loaded into a Windows Mobile 5 PDA.

The particular PDA doesn't have a built in GPS receiver, so I have one
of their magtchbox sized ones separately.

The advantages of this for my use a

- Integration with other of the PDA's functions such as address book

- Integration with handsfree telephone functions

- Portability. I can use it in the car or take it with me on
business trips to make sure that taxi drivers are being honest.

in 658592 20070811 085821 "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

I also doubt many individuals have experience of all types so for that you
need a magazine review - try Which etc.

I find the Which .. magazines pretty useless these days.
I bought Which Mobile the other day for help in choosing my next cellphone
and I thought I'd bought Playboy by mistake - scantily-clad tarts on every page.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:58:21 UTC, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

I guess one factor might be heat reflective windscreens and the need for
an antenna mounted externally.

Just a thought...I had trouble with my Dart Tag transponder on a new
car...!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
- Portability. I can use it in the car or take it with me on
business trips to make sure that taxi drivers are being honest.

Not much use with a decent taxi driver. He will (should) know the best
route between A&B which will include the time taken for the journey -
which won't necessarily just be the shortest route as given by most such
devices.

I must admit one with 'The Knowledge' routes loaded as an alternative
would be useful to me in London.

--
*If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:32:19 +0100, "Ed" wrote:

Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly for
use in different cars ?? Thanks E


PCPro ran a Labs Test of portable satnav devices this month..the issue
is still current.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/labs/155/satn.../products.html

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-08-11 07:32:19 +0100, "Ed" said:

Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for
use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I use TomTom software loaded into a Windows Mobile 5 PDA.

The particular PDA doesn't have a built in GPS receiver, so I have one of
their magtchbox sized ones separately.

The advantages of this for my use a

- Integration with other of the PDA's functions such as address book

- Integration with handsfree telephone functions

- Portability. I can use it in the car or take it with me on business
trips to make sure that taxi drivers are being honest.

I used to have a similar setup until my Dell Axim developed a charging
fault. I now use the same set up but on my Nokia N73. I thought the small
screen would have been a waste of time especially coming from a PDA but
there is little difference. Having it on a phone cuts down on the amount of
gadgets I now carry about.

Steven.

On 11/08/2007 11:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Not much use with a decent taxi driver. He will (should) know the best
route between A&B which will include the time taken for the journey -
which won't necessarily just be the shortest route as given by most such
devices.

Not sure about abroad, but here taxi drivers are required to take the
shortest journey. Even without that, if the taxi driver knows the
customer has the satnav he won't be tempted to go the wrong/long way (as
has happened to me and everyone I know in Rome)

On 2007-08-11 11:41:48 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
- Portability. I can use it in the car or take it with me on
business trips to make sure that taxi drivers are being honest.

Not much use with a decent taxi driver. He will (should) know the best
route between A&B which will include the time taken for the journey -
which won't necessarily just be the shortest route as given by most such
devices.

I must admit one with 'The Knowledge' routes loaded as an alternative
would be useful to me in London.

London isn't really the problem. Generally taxi drivers are pretty honest IME.

Notable places are

- Frankfurt - take the long way round from the airport on the Autobahn
rather than the direct route into the city - price goes from ~‚¬25 to ‚¬45

- Prague - similar game

- Milan - wrong way around the tangenziale

- Madrid - using streets going in not quite the right direction -
doubles the length of the trip

- Bucharest - although taxis are so cheap anyway that it doesn't
matter. This is apart from the only taxi firm allowed to operate to
and from the airport, which is reputed to be owned by a relative of the
prime minister.

in 658619 20070811 113320 Bob Martin wrote:
in 658592 20070811 085821 "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

I also doubt many individuals have experience of all types so for that you
need a magazine review - try Which etc.

I find the Which .. magazines pretty useless these days.
I bought Which Mobile the other day for help in choosing my next cellphone
and I thought I'd bought Playboy by mistake - scantily-clad tarts on every page.

Apologies - it was "What Mobile".

On 2007-08-11 12:51:42 +0100, Huge said:

Lucky you. My bloke couldn't find Linate at all.

The other game that they try is when going from the city to Linate to
charge double on the basis that they can't pick up a fare at the
airport because they are not an airport taxi. They aren't allowed to
do this, although I believe it was permitted some years ago.



- Paris - Took me to the wrong terminal at CdG and wouldn't take me to
the other
one until I spoke to a Gendarme.

I bet that he waved you goodbye with the middle finger of his left hand :-)

These days, if I do use CdG, even though I detest metros and suburban
trains, I use the RER. Eurostar is currently a better solution for
me, but may well not be when the terminus moves to St Pancreas.

In article ,
Bob Martin wrote:
I find the Which .. magazines pretty useless these days. I bought Which
Mobile the other day for help in choosing my next cellphone and I
thought I'd bought Playboy by mistake - scantily-clad tarts on every
page.

Apologies - it was "What Mobile".

Indeed - 'Which' may only be used by the CA, IIRC.

--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Bob Martin wrote:
in 658592 20070811 085821 "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Ed wrote:

Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

I also doubt many individuals have experience of all types so for that you
need a magazine review - try Which etc.


I find the Which .. magazines pretty useless these days.
I bought Which Mobile the other day for help in choosing my next cellphone
and I thought I'd bought Playboy by mistake - scantily-clad tarts on every page.

I never realised that the "Which ....." series of magazines were
anything to do with the Consumers Association magazine. The Which
Motorcaravan and Which Caravan magazines certainly are not.

On 2007-08-11 14:53:12 +0100, Huge said:

On 2007-08-11, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-08-11 12:51:42 +0100, Huge said:

Lucky you. My bloke couldn't find Linate at all.

The other game that they try is when going from the city to Linate to
charge double on the basis that they can't pick up a fare at the
airport because they are not an airport taxi. They aren't allowed to
do this, although I believe it was permitted some years ago.



- Paris - Took me to the wrong terminal at CdG and wouldn't take me to
the other
one until I spoke to a Gendarme.

I bet that he waved you goodbye with the middle finger of his left hand :-)

These days, if I do use CdG, even though I detest metros and suburban
trains, I use the RER. Eurostar is currently a better solution for
me, but may well not be when the terminus moves to St Pancreas.

Didn't exist when I was gallivanting round Yoorp. These days I can
do everything I need to down a broadband (which also didn't exist in
those days) connection,

I can do many things in this way, but not the essential face to face meetings



so I don't need to sit in a ****ty Novotel in
Aulnay-sous-Bois watching Dallas dubbed into French and wishing I was at
home.

That is only one marginal step up from Formule 1. Equally, it doesn't
matter if it's that or a Sofitel, the desire to be at home is still
there.

I can do many things in this way, but not the essential face to face
meetings

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes
What is it with salesmen that the personal visit is still so vital?

"Steven Campbell" spam@way wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

But some cars require external aerials due to having athermic
heat-reflecting windscreens and built-in windscreen heaters which can
block GPS signal reception.
The OP has already posted this request on
alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains, had several answers and then
chose to ask the same question again on the same thread 12 hours later so
I doubt he'll be back to pick up the responses.

The reason for my multiple post to different groups is that this is the
first one it has come up on on my computer, Obviously you in your wisdom
could advise me why this should be Kind regards E

On 2007-08-11 15:56:10 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:


I can do many things in this way, but not the essential face to face meetings

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes
What is it with salesmen that the personal visit is still so vital?

I wouldn't know. I'm not a salesman.

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:56:32 +0100, "Steven Campbell" spam@way
mused:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

But some cars require external aerials due to having athermic
heat-reflecting windscreens and built-in windscreen heaters which can
block
GPS signal reception.

Not neccesarily external aerials. My sat nav had trouble getting a fix
if the receiver was on the dash but I used a remote aerial located at
the top of the a pillar inside the car and it was fine.

The OP has already posted this request on
alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains, had several answers and then
chose
to ask the same question again on the same thread 12 hours later so I
doubt
he'll be back to pick up the responses.

People are annoying.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Stuart The reason for my multiple post to different groups is that this is
the
first one it has come up on on my computer,I am not trying to anoy anyone
and am sorry if I have Obviously you in your wisdom
could advise me why this should be Kind regards E

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

I also doubt many individuals have experience of all types so for that you
need a magazine review - try Which etc.

I can say I'm very happy with my Tom tom 510 - I chose it for the slightly
larger screen and better looks than some of the budget models.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I agree with Dave; not many people will have experience of all devices on
the market and even magazine reviews will have personal preferences and/or
prejudices.

I've recently bought a Navman F20 (actually a F40 which is a F20 plus the
Traffic Module) and am very happy with it. The F40 replaces a two-year old
Navman which was my first experience of driving with a SatNav.
in general, having a SatNav device is like heaven.
if it only kept pace of 'where am I?' it'd be worth it's weight in Gold.
[The number of times I've been cross-country in the dark trying to establish
my position off a three-inch map ... now it just _knows_]
I've learnt to trust the device - BUT USE MY EYES- and follow the traffic
signs immediately in front of me!
Sometimes one encounters a modified junction where the device is saying
'Turn Right' but the traffic calmer have splashed down white paint and one
can only (legally) turn LEFT ,,, no sweat ... just turn LEFT and the device
will ponder a while then say 'At the roundabout , take the THIRD exit' ....
One imagines the silent 'STUPID!'.
The previous model did not have the 'Traffic Information Module' which is
why I up-graded.
The Traffic Information is a RDS coded radio signal broadcast nationally, in
the UK utilising 'Classic FM's' frequencies. {the user doesn't need to know
this as it's transparent in use]
It's not spoken , just a stream of data including 'Event Number'; Event
Occurrence Time', Event Type, Event location and Expected time of
completion. Thus (say) " NNNN, HHMM, XXXX, LLLL, HHNN". will be _translated_
as "Event No. 1234; 10:33; Multi-vehicle collision; M25-J5 clock-wise;
02:45" by the GPS set and then according to the software, and your
preferences , display an alternative route.
I've belaboured this point as it's up to the manufacturer to translate the
codes into meaningful information -Event Type and Locations then decide what
to do with the information.

So far mine's worked well and has -to my knowledge- directed me off the M25
, through some delightful parts of Surrey, and back onto the M25. At my
destination, they said' Oh! We weren't expecting you for hours ... haven't
you heard? Sally-Traffic keeps saying the M25's chokka!"

I wouldn't be without mine, the rest is down to personal choice.


--

Brian

So far mine's worked well and has -to my knowledge- directed me off the M25
, through some delightful parts of Surrey, and back onto the M25.

Anything that got you off the M25 last Friday would be worth its weight
in gold

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
news

So far mine's worked well and has -to my knowledge- directed me off the
M25 , through some delightful parts of Surrey, and back onto the M25.

Anything that got you off the M25 last Friday would be worth its weight in
gold

Yep; that's basically why I bought it

My only 'complaint' is that the device doesn't take a huge overview!
Fr'instance it'll guide me off a Motorway and attempt to get me back on with
a minimum delay/detour. It doesn't take a strategic overview and say 'hmm,
M25's chokka, You want to get to Carlisle ... sod this M25, M40 for a lark.
let's cut across to the A34 and join the Southampton-Midlands route' ....
but hey; I got change from £200 ... how could it be as smart as me?


--

Brian

On Aug 11, 11:46 am, Stephen Howard wrote:
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:32:19 +0100, "Ed" wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly for
use in different cars ?? Thanks E

NavMan F20 £110 from the caravan club
Mike

Stuart Noble wrote:
I can do many things in this way, but not the essential face to face
meetings

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes
What is it with salesmen that the personal visit is still so vital?

Because all other things being equal, people buy from people they like, If
things are not equal they still buy from people they like.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 2007-08-11 23:08:27 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Stuart Noble wrote:
I can do many things in this way, but not the essential face to face
meetings

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes
What is it with salesmen that the personal visit is still so vital?

Because all other things being equal, people buy from people they like, If
things are not equal they still buy from people they like.

That's actually very true.

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 11, 11:46 am, Stephen Howard wrote:
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:32:19 +0100, "Ed" wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for
use in different cars ?? Thanks E

NavMan F20 £110 from the caravan club
Mike

But _do_ purchase the complimentary 'Road Traffic Module' which
transmogrifies the basic F20 into the F40 (=F20 +RTM). When connected an
extra icon appears on the F20's home menu.

The F20 is ,IMHO, good: the Road Traffic Module addition makes the F20
excellent.

BTW; Navmand 'do' a F30 (=F20 plus a Bluetooth connector so you can use your
Bluetooth enabled 'phone). I note that the sheds produce Bluetooth enabled
headsets that 'talk' to your ' much cheaper than the delta for the F20+ ....
and one can use the headset without trawling the car about!

Strange that .... it must have seemed a good idea when they were setting up
the marketing packages.

--

Brian

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-08-11 23:08:27 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Stuart Noble wrote:
I can do many things in this way, but not the essential face to face
meetings

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes
What is it with salesmen that the personal visit is still so vital?

Because all other things being equal, people buy from people they
like, If
things are not equal they still buy from people they like.

That's actually very true.



Only if you're a little old lady

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 11, 11:46 am, Stephen Howard wrote:
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:32:19 +0100, "Ed" wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for
use in different cars ?? Thanks E

NavMan F20 £110 from the caravan club


Mike


Unfortunately you have to be amember, I am not a member, have no caravan,
so no point in joining,
Thanks for all the siugestions E

"Brian Sharrock" wrote in message
...

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
news

So far mine's worked well and has -to my knowledge- directed me off the
M25 , through some delightful parts of Surrey, and back onto the M25.

Anything that got you off the M25 last Friday would be worth its weight
in gold

Yep; that's basically why I bought it

My only 'complaint' is that the device doesn't take a huge overview!
Fr'instance it'll guide me off a Motorway and attempt to get me back on
with a minimum delay/detour. It doesn't take a strategic overview and say
'hmm, M25's chokka, You want to get to Carlisle ... sod this M25, M40 for
a lark. let's cut across to the A34 and join the Southampton-Midlands
route' .... but hey; I got change from £200 ... how could it be as smart
as me?

TomTom could have done that for you either by "avoid roadblock" for a set
distance or "travel via" or "avoid part of route"

Steven.

"Ed" wrote in message
...

"Steven Campbell" spam@way wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

But some cars require external aerials due to having athermic
heat-reflecting windscreens and built-in windscreen heaters which can
block GPS signal reception.
The OP has already posted this request on
alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains, had several answers and then
chose to ask the same question again on the same thread 12 hours later so
I doubt he'll be back to pick up the responses.

The reason for my multiple post to different groups is that this is the
first one it has come up on on my computer, Obviously you in your wisdom
could advise me why this should be Kind regards E

If you post and it doesn't show, I would try a search on Google groups to
see if it has actually made it.
They made it fine over in alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains

Brian Sharrock wrote:

The F20 is ,IMHO, good: the Road Traffic Module addition makes the F20
excellent.

Slightly OT, but do people really drive off cliffs
because they are following their SatNav,
or is that just an urban myth?

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

"Steven Campbell" spam@way wrote in message
...
"Ed" wrote in message
...

"Steven Campbell" spam@way wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ed wrote:
Which is the best value for money Sat Nav just for U.K use and
possibly
for use in different cars ?? Thanks E

I doubt the different cars bit makes much difference as all the car
supplies is the power.

But some cars require external aerials due to having athermic
heat-reflecting windscreens and built-in windscreen heaters which can
block GPS signal reception.
The OP has already posted this request on
alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains, had several answers and then
chose to ask the same question again on the same thread 12 hours later
so I doubt he'll be back to pick up the responses.

The reason for my multiple post to different groups is that this is the
first one it has come up on on my computer, Obviously you in your wisdom
could advise me why this should be Kind regards E

If you post and it doesn't show, I would try a search on Google groups to
see if it has actually made it.
They made it fine over in alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains


But not displayed on my Usenet plusnet, whereas on d.i.y all seems to come
up Thanks

On 2007-08-12 08:29:56 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-08-11 23:08:27 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Stuart Noble wrote:
I can do many things in this way, but not the essential face to face
meetings

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes
What is it with salesmen that the personal visit is still so vital?

Because all other things being equal, people buy from people they like, If
things are not equal they still buy from people they like.

That's actually very true.



Only if you're a little old lady

Actually not.

I see people buying from people because they like them virtually every
day. This does not mean, as I think you are trying to suggest, that
this is because they are gullible. Something like 95% of the
population has bought a Lottery ticket - that's what I call gullible.

Keep in mind also that "selling" does not just mean the activity of
somebody who makes their living from arranging and progressing
commercial transactions related to goods and services.

In one way or another, we all sell. It can be ourselves - meaning
what we have to offer and our ideas. Our customers are the people with
whom we interact in one way or another. That can be in the work,
social and home environments.

All of these interactions, including the commercial and non-commercial
ones have a factual and a non-factual component. I tend to think of
the factual part as being "digital" - what is being proposed can be
documented, described and measured in quantifiable terms with all
parties involved being able to make the same determinations. The
non-factual part I think of as being "analogue" - this is the part
where the opinion of the person buying (in the broadest sense) is
involved.

There are some transactions (continuing in the broadest sense) that are
mainly digital. Thinking of a related example - let's say I want to
buy a cheap router to connect me to "broadband". There are about
6-10 well-known brands to choose from. I know what I am looking for
and can research the capabilities I want and whether the product does
them, perhaps how well it does them. I don't need the item today, but
in the next day or so. I do want the best price and delivery. Most
likely, I will look on the internet for that and make an on-line
purchase. One decision making criterion may very well be whether the
supplier has provided a timely delivery in the past. There is not much
analogue content in this transaction and so little need for human
interaction. Even if I had decided to buy over the phone, it would
tend to be a price and availability discussion. On the other side,
the supplier is making a small amount of margin contribution on the
sale and there is nothing to fund anything more than this.

However, the largest purchases (still continuing in the broadest
sense), tend to have much more of an analogue content - for example
houses, cars, holidays, home improvements, education, to name but a
few..... Usually there is more at stake either financially or in
other ways. Although many aspects of these can be described and
presented in digital terms, the difference in terms of whether or not a
transaction takes place comes from the buying criteria of the customer.
These may be only from choices made among those that the supplier is
presenting, in which case each customer may have wildly different
scorings on each. However, much more frequently, the customer has
issues that may not directly relate to what is being offered, either
because the supplier hasn't considered them, or because they really are
outside the immediate scope of the offering. Then there are the issues
that are not initially mentioned by the customer or may never be, but
which nonetheless make an important difference in decision making.
Politics in all that that means, be it in a company, some other
organisation or even a family can make a huge difference to outcome.

As a minimum, the person doing the selling (and I am still in the
broadest sense) needs to find out what the purchasing criteria of the
person buying are. If these are entirely or almost entirely from a
"digital" laundry list, that can be done over the phone or by email.
However, even that has to be done carefully. The direct and obvious
way would be to interrogate the customer to find out what the issues
are and hence make sure that they are covered properly. Call centre
type selling does this in a slightly packaged way, but most of us don't
like it, because it's scripted and little or no opportunity to cover
issues that are not part of the script.

Now consider the situation where much more is involved, and/or there is
much more analogue content in the transaction. It's then much more
difficult to identify the issues that actually are important because
the person may not be saying. That can be because they don't want to
say, that the purchase involves more than just them, that they have
additional agendas and dozens of other reasons. It's virtually
impossible to find out about these things other than through a face to
face meeting. Once one gets past the "digital" parts, for which
there is no point in going unless they are satisfied, the rest is
"analogue". Quite often, the important parts of those are only found
out about in the context of some kind of relationship developing
between buyer and seller. For example, the buyer may want the
transaction to take place but is worried about the consequences of
something not working out. Again, there can be loads of issues and
loads of people involved. Some of these people will say that they are
important, but are not; others will say little or nothing but really
are the important ones.

In among all of that lot is the degree to which the buyer(s) like the
seller(s). This is the short way of describing all of the analogue
content of the transaction ranging from the simple one of does the
buyer trust the seller sufficiently to giver him information that he
may be embarrassed about or which used in the wrong way or in the wrong
hands could put him at risk - either actually or just in his own mind.
In terms of an outcome to buy a product, service, idea or anything
else, any of these can facilitate or block what happens.