I've just completed rennovations on a small cottage which included
fitting new four-panel, knot-free pine doors throughout. I don't
particularly want to paint these but I'm not at all keen on varnished
pine (or pine in any form, for that matter).

I wondered if anyone had any suggestions for treating the doors so that
the grain can still be seen, but avoiding using standard varnish
treatments which leave the door 'yellow' and later deepen to that
horrible 'orangey brown' that pine seems to turn over the years.

A lighter, more neutral colour would be fine - something that gave the
doors a 'bleached, washed' effect. Any suggestions...?

Nigel Lord

"Nige" wrote in message
...

I've just completed rennovations on a small cottage which included
fitting new four-panel, knot-free pine doors throughout. I don't
particularly want to paint these but I'm not at all keen on varnished
pine (or pine in any form, for that matter).

I wondered if anyone had any suggestions for treating the doors so that
the grain can still be seen, but avoiding using standard varnish
treatments which leave the door 'yellow' and later deepen to that
horrible 'orangey brown' that pine seems to turn over the years.

A lighter, more neutral colour would be fine - something that gave the
doors a 'bleached, washed' effect. Any suggestions...?

Nigel Lord


Not an answer to your question but I seem to recall that there can be
problems with untreated pine doors where the humidity on one side of the
door is different to that on the other e.g. the bathroom door and that the
doors would need to be very carefully sealed to prevent wood movement

However I'm sure some one more knowledgeable will be along soon

Tony

On 8 Aug, 10:41, "TMC" wrote:
"Nige" wrote in message

...



I've just completed rennovations on a small cottage which included
fitting new four-panel, knot-free pine doors throughout. I don't
particularly want to paint these but I'm not at all keen on varnished
pine (or pine in any form, for that matter).

I wondered if anyone had any suggestions for treating the doors so that
the grain can still be seen, but avoiding using standard varnish
treatments which leave the door 'yellow' and later deepen to that
horrible 'orangey brown' that pine seems to turn over the years.

A lighter, more neutral colour would be fine - something that gave the
doors a 'bleached, washed' effect. Any suggestions...?

Nigel Lord

Not an answer to your question but I seem to recall that there can be
problems with untreated pine doors where the humidity on one side of the
door is different to that on the other e.g. the bathroom door and that the
doors would need to be very carefully sealed to prevent wood movement

However I'm sure some one more knowledgeable will be along soon

Tony

The one I got from B&Q had a warning saying something like "WARNING:
paint this door on all sides including the bottom edge before you even
think about putting this door onto your trolley, you have been
warned", but I guess it was very poor quality pine that would warp if
it dried out or subject to humidity changes.
Simon.

sm_jamieson wrote:
On 8 Aug, 10:41, "TMC" wrote:
"Nige" wrote in message

...



I've just completed rennovations on a small cottage which included
fitting new four-panel, knot-free pine doors throughout. I don't
particularly want to paint these but I'm not at all keen on varnished
pine (or pine in any form, for that matter).
I wondered if anyone had any suggestions for treating the doors so that
the grain can still be seen, but avoiding using standard varnish
treatments which leave the door 'yellow' and later deepen to that
horrible 'orangey brown' that pine seems to turn over the years.
A lighter, more neutral colour would be fine - something that gave the
doors a 'bleached, washed' effect. Any suggestions...?
Nigel Lord
Not an answer to your question but I seem to recall that there can be
problems with untreated pine doors where the humidity on one side of the
door is different to that on the other e.g. the bathroom door and that the
doors would need to be very carefully sealed to prevent wood movement

However I'm sure some one more knowledgeable will be along soon

Tony

The one I got from B&Q had a warning saying something like "WARNING:
paint this door on all sides including the bottom edge before you even
think about putting this door onto your trolley, you have been
warned", but I guess it was very poor quality pine that would warp if
it dried out or subject to humidity changes.
Simon.

All pine is poor quality.

The more grain you can see, the crappier it is.

If you want a 'natural pine' look (and lord nows why you would when you
can use other better woods at nearly the same price) bleach the *******
first and paint on clear acrylic varnish. It will of course warp like a
******* - but that's pine, Varnishing it merely slows it down - and Age
horribly - and look like crap. But there you go. Fashion is everything.

"sm_jamieson" wrote in message
ps.com...
On 8 Aug, 10:41, "TMC" wrote:
"Nige" wrote in message

...



I've just completed rennovations on a small cottage which included
fitting new four-panel, knot-free pine doors throughout. I don't
particularly want to paint these but I'm not at all keen on varnished
pine (or pine in any form, for that matter).

I wondered if anyone had any suggestions for treating the doors so that
the grain can still be seen, but avoiding using standard varnish
treatments which leave the door 'yellow' and later deepen to that
horrible 'orangey brown' that pine seems to turn over the years.

A lighter, more neutral colour would be fine - something that gave the
doors a 'bleached, washed' effect. Any suggestions...?

Nigel Lord

Not an answer to your question but I seem to recall that there can be
problems with untreated pine doors where the humidity on one side of the
door is different to that on the other e.g. the bathroom door and that
the
doors would need to be very carefully sealed to prevent wood movement

However I'm sure some one more knowledgeable will be along soon

Tony

The one I got from B&Q had a warning saying something like "WARNING:
paint this door on all sides including the bottom edge before you even
think about putting this door onto your trolley, you have been
warned", but I guess it was very poor quality pine that would warp if
it dried out or subject to humidity changes.
Simon.

Probably a disclaimer because their doors are of such poor quality.
My mate who is a joiner got to the stage that if a customer asked him for a
quote on fitting doors, he would politely tell them that he wouldn't price
for B&Q doors as they aren't worth the hassle.
He said he must have fitted about 30 B&Q doors for 6 different families
over the space of a few weeks and all were happy with them at the time. 2
weeks later he started receiving calls saying the doors weren't shutting
properly or sitting properly in the frame!

Steven.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote:
On 8 Aug, 10:41, "TMC" wrote:
"Nige" wrote in message

...



I've just completed rennovations on a small cottage which included
fitting new four-panel, knot-free pine doors throughout. I don't
particularly want to paint these but I'm not at all keen on varnished
pine (or pine in any form, for that matter).
I wondered if anyone had any suggestions for treating the doors so that
the grain can still be seen, but avoiding using standard varnish
treatments which leave the door 'yellow' and later deepen to that
horrible 'orangey brown' that pine seems to turn over the years.
A lighter, more neutral colour would be fine - something that gave the
doors a 'bleached, washed' effect. Any suggestions...?
Nigel Lord
Not an answer to your question but I seem to recall that there can be
problems with untreated pine doors where the humidity on one side of the
door is different to that on the other e.g. the bathroom door and
that the
doors would need to be very carefully sealed to prevent wood movement

However I'm sure some one more knowledgeable will be along soon

Tony

The one I got from B&Q had a warning saying something like "WARNING:
paint this door on all sides including the bottom edge before you even
think about putting this door onto your trolley, you have been
warned", but I guess it was very poor quality pine that would warp if
it dried out or subject to humidity changes.
Simon.

All pine is poor quality.

Quality varies from superb to ****e depending how far north it's grown
and which species you're talking about. Siberian redwood commands a
higher price than most hardwoods. Welsh redwood is used for pallets.

The more grain you can see, the crappier it is.

That much is generally true. Faster growth, more open grain, cheaper
product.

If you want a 'natural pine' look (and lord nows why you would when you
can use other better woods at nearly the same price) bleach the *******
first

Yes. Use 2 part woodworking bleach. I can't swear that this prevents the
orange look developing, but I'm 90% sure.
Not everyone likes hardwoods. I for one find them bland and dull but, if
you've never seen a decent softwood, you wouldn't understand.

and paint on clear acrylic varnish. It will of course warp like a
******* - but that's pine,

Movement is usually down to bad preparation and kilning. The latter is a
lengthy process if done correctly, which is why it usually isn't.

Varnishing it merely slows it down - and Age
horribly - and look like crap. But there you go. Fashion is everything.


All this crap about finishing the door both sides is just another way of
saying it's the customer's fault if it warps, and invariably it isn't.
Moisture goes in and out through the end grain so the faces don't matter
that much.

Use a 'diamond hard' (ie not a cheap and tacky - literally!) 'eggshell'
varnish, in whatever colour you like. Apply in several thin (very or it
will drip and leave nasty run marks) coats, smoothing with 400 emery paper
in between. With the hard varnishes this is easy: with the cheap ones,
impossible.

I have redone half the 'yellow' antique pine doors and skirting boards in a
friend's house like this, and it looks and feels great. Getting the old
tacky varnish off was a major effort though and needed a great number of
changes of grits on a selection of sanders, but it was worth it. (Don't even
think about 'stripper' solutions!)

On the other hand, depending on how much bashing about your new doors are
likely to receive, you might get away with just several coats of linseed
oil/french polish or other wood oil (teak oil). Probably they will need
some harder protection though, as it is doubtful that modern pine will be
very fine grained and tough.

S


"Nige" wrote in message
...

I've just completed rennovations on a small cottage which included
fitting new four-panel, knot-free pine doors throughout. I don't
particularly want to paint these but I'm not at all keen on varnished
pine (or pine in any form, for that matter).

I wondered if anyone had any suggestions for treating the doors so that
the grain can still be seen, but avoiding using standard varnish
treatments which leave the door 'yellow' and later deepen to that
horrible 'orangey brown' that pine seems to turn over the years.

A lighter, more neutral colour would be fine - something that gave the
doors a 'bleached, washed' effect. Any suggestions...?

Nigel Lord

Stuart Noble wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote:
On 8 Aug, 10:41, "TMC" wrote:
"Nige" wrote in message

...



I've just completed rennovations on a small cottage which included
fitting new four-panel, knot-free pine doors throughout. I don't
particularly want to paint these but I'm not at all keen on varnished
pine (or pine in any form, for that matter).
I wondered if anyone had any suggestions for treating the doors so
that
the grain can still be seen, but avoiding using standard varnish
treatments which leave the door 'yellow' and later deepen to that
horrible 'orangey brown' that pine seems to turn over the years.
A lighter, more neutral colour would be fine - something that gave the
doors a 'bleached, washed' effect. Any suggestions...?
Nigel Lord
Not an answer to your question but I seem to recall that there can be
problems with untreated pine doors where the humidity on one side of
the
door is different to that on the other e.g. the bathroom door and
that the
doors would need to be very carefully sealed to prevent wood movement

However I'm sure some one more knowledgeable will be along soon

Tony

The one I got from B&Q had a warning saying something like "WARNING:
paint this door on all sides including the bottom edge before you even
think about putting this door onto your trolley, you have been
warned", but I guess it was very poor quality pine that would warp if
it dried out or subject to humidity changes.
Simon.

All pine is poor quality.

Quality varies from superb to ****e depending how far north it's grown
and which species you're talking about. Siberian redwood commands a
higher price than most hardwoods. Welsh redwood is used for pallets.

The more grain you can see, the crappier it is.

That much is generally true. Faster growth, more open grain, cheaper
product.

If you want a 'natural pine' look (and lord nows why you would when
you can use other better woods at nearly the same price) bleach the
******* first

Yes. Use 2 part woodworking bleach. I can't swear that this prevents the
orange look developing, but I'm 90% sure.
Not everyone likes hardwoods. I for one find them bland and dull but, if
you've never seen a decent softwood, you wouldn't understand.

and paint on clear acrylic varnish. It will of course warp like a
******* - but that's pine,

Movement is usually down to bad preparation and kilning. The latter is a
lengthy process if done correctly, which is why it usually isn't.


No it isn't. No wood is stable over the normal range of humidity from
summer to winter. Unless you completely fill its pores with something
that inhibits water uptake COMPLETELY, or seal it in something totally
impervious, which most varnishes are not. Pine is probably one of the
worst in this respect. Especially with respect to differential expansion.

The T&G boards in my house move by about 1.5mm PER BOARD between summer
and winter. I've screwed em down hard to prevent warping.

All varnish does is make sure that the rate of change is a bit slower,
but over a period of weeks it happens.



Varnishing it merely slows it down - and Age
horribly - and look like crap. But there you go. Fashion is everything.


All this crap about finishing the door both sides is just another way of
saying it's the customer's fault if it warps, and invariably it isn't.
Moisture goes in and out through the end grain so the faces don't matter
that much.

It goes in every which way, its just faster along the grain from end
grain - very fast..thats how you split rocks with wooden wedges..drive
em in to the cracks and douse with water.

Steve H wrote:
Use a 'diamond hard' (ie not a cheap and tacky - literally!) 'eggshell'
varnish, in whatever colour you like. Apply in several thin (very or it
will drip and leave nasty run marks) coats, smoothing with 400 emery paper
in between. With the hard varnishes this is easy: with the cheap ones,
impossible.

I have redone half the 'yellow' antique pine doors and skirting boards in a
friend's house like this, and it looks and feels great. Getting the old
tacky varnish off was a major effort though and needed a great number of
changes of grits on a selection of sanders, but it was worth it. (Don't even
think about 'stripper' solutions!)

On the other hand, depending on how much bashing about your new doors are
likely to receive, you might get away with just several coats of linseed
oil/french polish or other wood oil (teak oil). Probably they will need
some harder protection though, as it is doubtful that modern pine will be
very fine grained and tough.


Linseed is VERY yellow and french polish is almost orangey brown:
Neither are the right color for the OP.

The T&G boards in my house move by about 1.5mm PER BOARD between summer
and winter. I've screwed em down hard to prevent warping.

About 1% over 150mm then? Most joinery and furniture is designed to
accommodate that. Decent timber shouldn't twist. It's what you're paying
for with the higher grades.

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 02:40:04 +0100, Nige
wrote:


I've just completed rennovations on a small cottage which included
fitting new four-panel, knot-free pine doors throughout. I don't
particularly want to paint these but I'm not at all keen on varnished
pine (or pine in any form, for that matter).

I wondered if anyone had any suggestions for treating the doors so that
the grain can still be seen, but avoiding using standard varnish
treatments which leave the door 'yellow' and later deepen to that
horrible 'orangey brown' that pine seems to turn over the years.

A lighter, more neutral colour would be fine - something that gave the
doors a 'bleached, washed' effect. Any suggestions...?

Nigel Lord

Tradionally pine doors(and furniture) would have been painted, I
really think in a cottage painted doors and skirting looks far better
than stripped pine.

But its your cottage !
Robert

Stuart Noble wrote:

The T&G boards in my house move by about 1.5mm PER BOARD between
summer and winter. I've screwed em down hard to prevent warping.

About 1% over 150mm then? Most joinery and furniture is designed to
accommodate that. Decent timber shouldn't twist. It's what you're paying
for with the higher grades.

more like 2% over 75mm

Decent timber anything but quarter grain cut, will cup.

All timber swells..

On 8 Aug, 02:40, Nige wrote:

I've just completed rennovations on a small cottage which included
fitting new four-panel, knot-free pine doors throughout. I don't
particularly want to paint these but I'm not at all keen on varnished
pine (or pine in any form, for that matter).

I wondered if anyone had any suggestions for treating the doors so that
the grain can still be seen, but avoiding using standard varnish
treatments which leave the door 'yellow' and later deepen to that
horrible 'orangey brown' that pine seems to turn over the years.

A lighter, more neutral colour would be fine - something that gave the
doors a 'bleached, washed' effect. Any suggestions...?

Nigel Lord

google messing up again. brush emulsion on, wipe off immediately and
you get a thin white film. You can see the grain, but it keeps the
colour light.


NT

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote:

The one I got from B&Q had a warning saying something like "WARNING:
paint this door on all sides including the bottom edge before you
even think about putting this door onto your trolley, you have been
warned", but I guess it was very poor quality pine that would warp if
it dried out or subject to humidity changes.
Simon.

All pine is poor quality.

The more grain you can see, the crappier it is.

If you want a 'natural pine' look (and lord nows why you would when
you can use other better woods at nearly the same price) bleach the
******* first and paint on clear acrylic varnish. It will of course
warp like a ******* - but that's pine, Varnishing it merely slows it
down - and Age horribly - and look like crap. But there you go.
Fashion is everything.

I assembled a 'pine' wardrobe for a customer yesterday, purchased from
Argos. Doors made from el cheapo pine in strips with alternating grain. No
frame, doors were 5' high x 18" wide. One of them was twisted to the point
that the bottom edge was half an inch out of kilter.

Customer said she was surprised it had warped. I said I would have been
surprised if it hadn't warped.

Doors were treated with a dark stain, all the knots (legion & manifold) had
white residues around them, you could feel the resin just by running you
hand across the face of the door. A note in the box claimed this was
entirely normal because 'wood is a natural product & still alive' and
suggested that a light wipe over with cooking oil would solve the problem.

Argos flatpack is complete crap IMO.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote:
The one I got from B&Q had a warning saying something like "WARNING:
paint this door on all sides including the bottom edge before you
even think about putting this door onto your trolley, you have been
warned", but I guess it was very poor quality pine that would warp if
it dried out or subject to humidity changes.
Simon.

All pine is poor quality.

The more grain you can see, the crappier it is.

If you want a 'natural pine' look (and lord nows why you would when
you can use other better woods at nearly the same price) bleach the
******* first and paint on clear acrylic varnish. It will of course
warp like a ******* - but that's pine, Varnishing it merely slows it
down - and Age horribly - and look like crap. But there you go.
Fashion is everything.

I assembled a 'pine' wardrobe for a customer yesterday, purchased from
Argos. Doors made from el cheapo pine in strips with alternating grain. No
frame, doors were 5' high x 18" wide. One of them was twisted to the point
that the bottom edge was half an inch out of kilter.

Customer said she was surprised it had warped. I said I would have been
surprised if it hadn't warped.

Doors were treated with a dark stain, all the knots (legion & manifold) had
white residues around them, you could feel the resin just by running you
hand across the face of the door. A note in the box claimed this was
entirely normal because 'wood is a natural product & still alive' and
suggested that a light wipe over with cooking oil would solve the problem.

Argos flatpack is complete crap IMO.


Sounds like the Chinese haven't quite got the hang of softwood furniture
production. Ikea's bare wood range isn't stripey or knotty and seems
pretty stable, but then the Swedes do know a bit about wood.
The idea that all pine is crap and all pine warps is silly. There are so
many species and so many locations that it's a bit like saying all wine
is crap because it isn't brandy.

Dye it whatever colour you like. I like walnut or teak.

S


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Steve H wrote:
Use a 'diamond hard' (ie not a cheap and tacky - literally!) 'eggshell'
varnish, in whatever colour you like. Apply in several thin (very or it
will drip and leave nasty run marks) coats, smoothing with 400 emery
paper in between. With the hard varnishes this is easy: with the cheap
ones, impossible.

I have redone half the 'yellow' antique pine doors and skirting boards in
a friend's house like this, and it looks and feels great. Getting the old
tacky varnish off was a major effort though and needed a great number of
changes of grits on a selection of sanders, but it was worth it. (Don't
even think about 'stripper' solutions!)

On the other hand, depending on how much bashing about your new doors are
likely to receive, you might get away with just several coats of linseed
oil/french polish or other wood oil (teak oil). Probably they will need
some harder protection though, as it is doubtful that modern pine will be
very fine grained and tough.


Linseed is VERY yellow and french polish is almost orangey brown: Neither
are the right color for the OP.

On Aug 9, 9:02 am, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I assembled a 'pine' wardrobe for a customer yesterday, purchased
from
Argos. Doors made from el cheapo pine in strips with alternating grain. No
frame, doors were 5' high x 18" wide. One of them was twisted to the point
that the bottom edge was half an inch out of kilter.

Australian doors twist the other way...

cheers,
Pete.

In message , The Medway
Handyman writes

I assembled a 'pine' wardrobe for a customer yesterday, purchased from
Argos. Doors made from el cheapo pine in strips with alternating grain. No
frame, doors were 5' high x 18" wide. One of them was twisted to the point
that the bottom edge was half an inch out of kilter.

Customer said she was surprised it had warped. I said I would have been
surprised if it hadn't warped.

Doors were treated with a dark stain, all the knots (legion & manifold) had
white residues around them, you could feel the resin just by running you
hand across the face of the door. A note in the box claimed this was
entirely normal because 'wood is a natural product & still alive' and
suggested that a light wipe over with cooking oil would solve the problem.

Argos flatpack is complete crap IMO.

I think you meant "incomplete" crap


--
geoff

In message , spamlet
writes
Dye it whatever colour you like. I like walnut or teak.

You're a top poster - your opinion is irrelevant


S


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Steve H wrote:
Use a 'diamond hard' (ie not a cheap and tacky - literally!) 'eggshell'
varnish, in whatever colour you like. Apply in several thin (very or it
will drip and leave nasty run marks) coats, smoothing with 400 emery
paper in between. With the hard varnishes this is easy: with the cheap
ones, impossible.

I have redone half the 'yellow' antique pine doors and skirting boards in
a friend's house like this, and it looks and feels great. Getting the old
tacky varnish off was a major effort though and needed a great number of
changes of grits on a selection of sanders, but it was worth it. (Don't
even think about 'stripper' solutions!)

On the other hand, depending on how much bashing about your new doors are
likely to receive, you might get away with just several coats of linseed
oil/french polish or other wood oil (teak oil). Probably they will need
some harder protection though, as it is doubtful that modern pine will be
very fine grained and tough.


Linseed is VERY yellow and french polish is almost orangey brown: Neither
are the right color for the OP.



--
geoff

Depends how far you want to go really. You could start by buying them a nice
bouquet & perhaps a box of Belgian chocolates before taking them on for a
candlelit dinner or even a romantic weekend in Venice.

Personally, being a cheapskate, I'd just varnish 'em ;-))

Don.

That's the way OE likes it.

And my doors are witness to the veracity of my statements.

S


"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , spamlet
writes
Dye it whatever colour you like. I like walnut or teak.

You're a top poster - your opinion is irrelevant


S


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Steve H wrote:
Use a 'diamond hard' (ie not a cheap and tacky - literally!) 'eggshell'
varnish, in whatever colour you like. Apply in several thin (very or
it
will drip and leave nasty run marks) coats, smoothing with 400 emery
paper in between. With the hard varnishes this is easy: with the cheap
ones, impossible.

I have redone half the 'yellow' antique pine doors and skirting boards
in
a friend's house like this, and it looks and feels great. Getting the
old
tacky varnish off was a major effort though and needed a great number
of
changes of grits on a selection of sanders, but it was worth it. (Don't
even think about 'stripper' solutions!)

On the other hand, depending on how much bashing about your new doors
are
likely to receive, you might get away with just several coats of
linseed
oil/french polish or other wood oil (teak oil). Probably they will
need
some harder protection though, as it is doubtful that modern pine will
be
very fine grained and tough.


Linseed is VERY yellow and french polish is almost orangey brown:
Neither
are the right color for the OP.



--
geoff

In message , spamlet
writes
That's the way OE likes it.

And my doors are witness to the veracity of my statements.

No it's the way that lazy ****s who don't observe usenet ettiquette post


--
geoff

That's etiquette: and I can't say I'd ever noticed any. Making people
cruise to the bottom of a huge long list of old vee signs, before getting to
the point, is pretty rude in my book.

S


"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , spamlet
writes
That's the way OE likes it.

And my doors are witness to the veracity of my statements.

No it's the way that lazy ****s who don't observe usenet ettiquette post


--
geoff

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 22:13:28 GMT, "spamlet"
mused:

That's etiquette: and I can't say I'd ever noticed any. Making people
cruise to the bottom of a huge long list of old vee signs, before getting to
the point, is pretty rude in my book.

That's why you trim to context.

I suspect most people will be killfiling you anyway so doesn't really
matter where you post anymore.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In message , spamlet
writes
That's etiquette: and I can't say I'd ever noticed any. Making people
cruise to the bottom of a huge long list of old vee signs, before getting to
the point, is pretty rude in my book.

Then type "netiquette" into google and learn and understand - retard

--
geoff