Hi,

I'm planning to freshen up our kitchen. I'll be replacing the sink and
work-top, and I'm considering painting the antique pine cupboard doors
and drawer fronts because direct replacements are not readily available
since some of them are not standard sizes.

I'd appreciate any comments on the best way to do the painting, and
whether I'll still need to use knotting to seal the knots even though
the doors have been in-situ for more than 15 years and must be well
dried-out. I'm intending using Dulux Cupboard Paint which, the
manufacturer claims, is very robust and well suited for a kitchen
environment. How much preparation should I give the doors before
painting, apart from a good sanding on their flat surfaces as well as
the various grooves in them?

If the door painting idea isn't successful then I guess my Plan B will
have to be the more expensive option of having some new doors and drawer
front custom-made. If I have to go this route, can anyone suggest a
supplier of REASONABLY priced custom-made doors?

Any comments and suggestions will be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

- David

David C.Chapman - )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Chapman wrote:
Hi,

I'm planning to freshen up our kitchen. I'll be replacing the sink and
work-top, and I'm considering painting the antique pine cupboard doors
and drawer fronts because direct replacements are not readily available
since some of them are not standard sizes.

I'd appreciate any comments on the best way to do the painting, and
whether I'll still need to use knotting to seal the knots even though
the doors have been in-situ for more than 15 years and must be well
dried-out. I'm intending using Dulux Cupboard Paint which, the
manufacturer claims, is very robust and well suited for a kitchen
environment. How much preparation should I give the doors before
painting, apart from a good sanding on their flat surfaces as well as
the various grooves in them?

If the door painting idea isn't successful then I guess my Plan B will
have to be the more expensive option of having some new doors and drawer
front custom-made. If I have to go this route, can anyone suggest a
supplier of REASONABLY priced custom-made doors?

Any comments and suggestions will be much appreciated.

I had some made to match existing original doors in a house. Cost about
£20 per door from a local joinery firm - main business was windows.
(Coxhoe Timber, near Durham). They were a solid pine frame with centre
panel and pine mouldings. Looked great when painted cream.

Standard door sizes haven't changed much, but different suppliers have
different standards. If you post the list of sizes, someone might know
of a supplier who can do them as standard.

A

David Chapman wrote:


I'd appreciate any comments on the best way to do the painting, and
whether I'll still need to use knotting to seal the knots even though
the doors have been in-situ for more than 15 years and must be well
dried-out. I'm intending using Dulux Cupboard Paint which, the
manufacturer claims, is very robust and well suited for a kitchen
environment. How much preparation should I give the doors before
painting, apart from a good sanding on their flat surfaces as well as
the various grooves in them?

Well a bit of knotting won't hurt...

I would sand them thoroughly, knot the knots use plastic wood to fill
any gashes and sand again, then a coat of acrylic primer..if that fails
to stick to whatever is there already use a spirit based one, followed
up bu a and and another primer..when the surface is properly un pine
like, a coat of undercoat,a gentle sand and a careful top coat.


If the door painting idea isn't successful
If you do it carefully it will be. In terms of your labour new doors are
cheaper of course.


then I guess my Plan B will
have to be the more expensive option of having some new doors and drawer
front custom-made. If I have to go this route, can anyone suggest a
supplier of REASONABLY priced custom-made doors?

Any comments and suggestions will be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

- David

David C.Chapman - )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well a bit of knotting won't hurt...

I'd shellac the whole door first. It's a good enough primer for the
paint, it's a good sealer for any kitchen grime that's stuck beneath
(including waxes and even silicone polishes) and it will make the whole
business reversible if you ever want go from paint to bare wood.

David Chapman wrote:

Hi,

I'm planning to freshen up our kitchen. I'll be replacing the sink and
work-top, and I'm considering painting the antique pine cupboard doors

I'd appreciate any comments on the best way to do the painting, and

If theyre now wood finish not painted, I'd recommend liming them rather
than painting. It looks so much nicer, and isnt hard to do.

NT

wrote:
David Chapman wrote:

Hi,

I'm planning to freshen up our kitchen. I'll be replacing the sink and
work-top, and I'm considering painting the antique pine cupboard doors

I'd appreciate any comments on the best way to do the painting, and

If theyre now wood finish not painted, I'd recommend liming them rather
than painting. It looks so much nicer, and isnt hard to do.

NT


Looks bloody awful on pine IMO. Better to use an oil based glaze if
you're into wash finishes

wrote:

If theyre now wood finish not painted, I'd recommend liming them

Liming on softwood? That's going to look pretty awful, IMHO.

David Chapman wrote:
Hi,

I'm planning to freshen up our kitchen. I'll be replacing the sink and
work-top, and I'm considering painting the antique pine cupboard doors
and drawer fronts because direct replacements are not readily available
since some of them are not standard sizes.

I'd appreciate any comments on the best way to do the painting, and
whether I'll still need to use knotting to seal the knots even though
the doors have been in-situ for more than 15 years and must be well
dried-out. I'm intending using Dulux Cupboard Paint which, the
manufacturer claims, is very robust and well suited for a kitchen
environment. How much preparation should I give the doors before
painting, apart from a good sanding on their flat surfaces as well as
the various grooves in them?

If the door painting idea isn't successful then I guess my Plan B will
have to be the more expensive option of having some new doors and drawer
front custom-made. If I have to go this route, can anyone suggest a
supplier of REASONABLY priced custom-made doors?

Any comments and suggestions will be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

- David

David C.Chapman - )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Chapman wrote:
Hi,

I'm planning to freshen up our kitchen. I'll be replacing the sink and
work-top, and I'm considering painting the antique pine cupboard doors
and drawer fronts because direct replacements are not readily available
since some of them are not standard sizes.

I'd appreciate any comments on the best way to do the painting, and
whether I'll still need to use knotting to seal the knots even though
the doors have been in-situ for more than 15 years and must be well
dried-out. I'm intending using Dulux Cupboard Paint which, the
manufacturer claims, is very robust and well suited for a kitchen
environment. How much preparation should I give the doors before
painting, apart from a good sanding on their flat surfaces as well as
the various grooves in them?

If the door painting idea isn't successful then I guess my Plan B will
have to be the more expensive option of having some new doors and drawer
front custom-made. If I have to go this route, can anyone suggest a
supplier of REASONABLY priced custom-made doors?

Any comments and suggestions will be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

- David

David C.Chapman - )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

David becarefull of painting onto varnish or laquer , oil or acyrlics
don't take to well

Andy Dingley wrote:
wrote:

If theyre now wood finish not painted, I'd recommend liming them

Liming on softwood? That's going to look pretty awful, IMHO.

Far from it. It gives a light wash. Can be done with emulsion, brush
on, wipe off. Makes dark woods light.


NT

wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
wrote:

If theyre now wood finish not painted, I'd recommend liming them

Liming on softwood? That's going to look pretty awful, IMHO.

Far from it. It gives a light wash. Can be done with emulsion, brush
on, wipe off. Makes dark woods light.


NT


A build up of chalk in the grain achieves nothing, other than to make
the wood look cloudy and dull. Combine that with the orange tint in pine
and you have a real dog's dinner.

Any comments and suggestions will be much appreciated.

Many thanks to all those that have posted to offer interesting
suggestions.

- David

David C.Chapman - )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
wrote:

If theyre now wood finish not painted, I'd recommend liming them

Liming on softwood? That's going to look pretty awful, IMHO.

Far from it. It gives a light wash. Can be done with emulsion, brush
on, wipe off. Makes dark woods light.


NT


A build up of chalk in the grain achieves nothing,

might be why I didnt recommend it.


NT
..

wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
Liming on softwood? That's going to look pretty awful, IMHO.

Far from it. It gives a light wash. Can be done with emulsion, brush
on, wipe off.

Then that's a wash or a glaze, which might well look reasonable. It's
not liming, which is a fairly heavy pigment that's rubbed into the
pores of a timber like oak and wiped clean off its surface. Softwoods
don't have these pores, so a good liming on pine would be invisible, a
bad one would look like poorly-cleaned graffitti.

Andy Dingley wrote:
wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
Liming on softwood? That's going to look pretty awful, IMHO.

Far from it. It gives a light wash. Can be done with emulsion, brush
on, wipe off.

Then that's a wash or a glaze, which might well look reasonable. It's
not liming, which is a fairly heavy pigment that's rubbed into the
pores of a timber like oak and wiped clean off its surface. Softwoods
don't have these pores, so a good liming on pine would be invisible, a
bad one would look like poorly-cleaned graffitti.

Its funny what people say. Limed softwood has a smooth even light
woodgrain appearance. Of course the result is different for pine
compared to oak. And emulsion is better for this effect than lime
putty.

There is also the method of creating false pores on softwood and liming
them, but thats not what I'm talking about here.


NT

wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
Liming on softwood? That's going to look pretty awful, IMHO.

Far from it. It gives a light wash. Can be done with emulsion, brush
on, wipe off.

Then that's a wash or a glaze, which might well look reasonable. It's
not liming, which is a fairly heavy pigment that's rubbed into the
pores of a timber like oak and wiped clean off its surface. Softwoods
don't have these pores, so a good liming on pine would be invisible, a
bad one would look like poorly-cleaned graffitti.

Its funny what people say. Limed softwood has a smooth even light
woodgrain appearance. Of course the result is different for pine
compared to oak. And emulsion is better for this effect than lime
putty.


There is also the method of creating false pores on softwood and liming
them, but thats not what I'm talking about here.

Now you're just bull****ting. False pores my arse

On 2007-01-19 21:22:27 +0000, Owain said:

Andy Dingley wrote:
If theyre now wood finish not painted, I'd recommend liming them
Liming on softwood? That's going to look pretty awful, IMHO.

Not as bad as sticky-back plastic.

Trust me on this.

Owain

You've got pictures of Valerie Singleton and Joan Armatrading on your
bedroom wall, haven't you?


Down, Shep; and everyone wondered what Shep had been doing.

Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:

There is also the method of creating false pores on softwood and liming
them, but thats not what I'm talking about here.

Now you're just bull****ting.

No. Softwoods have been decorated so as to mimic hardwoods for a very
long time.

False pores my arse

I think those would be real pores


NT

Andy Dingley wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well a bit of knotting won't hurt...

I'd shellac the whole door first. It's a good enough primer for the
paint, it's a good sealer for any kitchen grime that's stuck beneath
(including waxes and even silicone polishes) and it will make the whole
business reversible if you ever want go from paint to bare wood.

Fair point. Never thought of it that way.

wrote:
David Chapman wrote:

Hi,

I'm planning to freshen up our kitchen. I'll be replacing the sink and
work-top, and I'm considering painting the antique pine cupboard doors

I'd appreciate any comments on the best way to do the painting, and

If theyre now wood finish not painted, I'd recommend liming them rather
than painting. It looks so much nicer, and isnt hard to do.

Antique pine looks crap whatever you do if you don't cover it up.

I prefer the natural grain of MDF and chipboard myself...;-)


NT

I'd shellac the whole door first. It's a good enough primer for the
paint, it's a good sealer for any kitchen grime that's stuck beneath
(including waxes and even silicone polishes) and it will make the whole
business reversible if you ever want go from paint to bare wood.

The last time I encountered shellac, many years ago, it was when it
was supplied as small flakes a bit like fish-food. It then had to be
dissolved in meths.

Is it still available in that form or does it now come as a ready-
prepared liquid varnish?

Where can I obtain some?

TIA - David

David C.Chapman - )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Chapman wrote:
I'd shellac the whole door first. It's a good enough primer for the
paint, it's a good sealer for any kitchen grime that's stuck beneath
(including waxes and even silicone polishes) and it will make the whole
business reversible if you ever want go from paint to bare wood.

The last time I encountered shellac, many years ago, it was when it
was supplied as small flakes a bit like fish-food. It then had to be
dissolved in meths.

Is it still available in that form or does it now come as a ready-
prepared liquid varnish?

Where can I obtain some?


Known as French polish. Any decent wood finish supplier, like

http://www.mylands.co.uk/

and others

wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:

There is also the method of creating false pores on softwood and liming
them, but thats not what I'm talking about here.

Now you're just bull****ting.

No. Softwoods have been decorated so as to mimic hardwoods for a very
long time.

Liming involves a residue of lime being left in the pores. It's not
enough to look like pores. You'd have to drill holes to get the effect.
It's pretty obvious you don't understand what liming is.

David Chapman wrote:

The last time I encountered shellac, many years ago, it was when it
was supplied as small flakes a bit like fish-food. It then had to be
dissolved in meths.

It has been available ready-disssolved since the Victorian era. However
it doesn't store as well in that state, so buy it from somewhere with a
good turnover. Screwfix do a decent one ("button" is a bit lighter
colour). Shellac is a complicated subject. There are lots of varieties,
lots of qualities and a huge number of techniques.

For our initial purposes, you need Screwfix's finest cheapy and a
medium-quality artist's _watercolour_ brush with _synthetic_ (Golden
Taklon) bristles (most of the high-street "bookshops for the
illiterate" chains).Try a 3/4" or 1/2" filbert. Don't clean it
afterwards, just wipe it clean and soften it before use next time with
a splash of meths. You'll need plentry of meths too, best clear rather
than purple and ideally as non-stenched industrial meths, but the stuff
from the camping shop is fine too.

You can wipe it on too, but I wouldn't bother unless you want to learn
french polishing. Even so, you should start with a brush coat for the
first one, to get those internal corners around mouldings.

Screwfix shellac is, like most, still waxy. It works better if you
leave the bottles to stand for a week or two and then pour off the top
2/3rd into a separate bottle and use only that for finishing. The
bottom 1/3rd looks like old instant coffee and has a creamy opaqueness
to it. This is the particularly waxy component. Keep it and use it for
sanding sealer on jobs like this one, on bare timber for rough work, as
a friction polish for lathework, or as knotting under paint. The waxy
shellac doesn't give such a good final finish, but it does sand better.
Your first portion of "dewaxed" shellac also keeps better in liquid
storage.

For an initial coating, use Screwfix's diluted 50:50 with meths. This
gives a better coating and dries more quickly. You'll probably use a
lot of shellac that's extra-diluted, but you need to practice and get
the feel of it. One of the reasons for dissolving your own is simply so
that you can accurately control this dilution.

Every workshop should have some ready-dissolved shellac in it. Handy
stuff for all sorts of purposes.

Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:

There is also the method of creating false pores on softwood and liming
them, but thats not what I'm talking about here.

Now you're just bull****ting.

No. Softwoods have been decorated so as to mimic hardwoods for a very
long time.

Liming involves a residue of lime being left in the pores.

Thats what it involves when used on hardwoods. The effect is entirely
different with softwoods.

It's not
enough to look like pores. You'd have to drill holes to get the effect.

no, tiny indentations can be made in softwood in far easier ways.

It's pretty obvious you don't understand what liming is.

Its pretty obvious you were born without a brain.


NT

wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
wrote:

There is also the method of creating false pores on softwood and liming
them, but thats not what I'm talking about here.

Now you're just bull****ting.

No. Softwoods have been decorated so as to mimic hardwoods for a very
long time.

Liming involves a residue of lime being left in the pores.

Thats what it involves when used on hardwoods. The effect is entirely
different with softwoods.

It's not
enough to look like pores. You'd have to drill holes to get the effect.

no, tiny indentations can be made in softwood in far easier ways.

It's pretty obvious you don't understand what liming is.

Its pretty obvious you were born without a brain.


Its becoming obvious that yours is in the 'Drivel' class. Capable of
reading and repeating parrot fashion, but not actually capable of
logical independent thought.


NT

It has been available ready-disssolved since the Victorian era. However
it doesn't store as well in that state, so buy it from somewhere with a
good turnover. Screwfix do a decent one ("button" is a bit lighter
colour). Shellac is a complicated subject. There are lots of varieties,
lots of qualities and a huge number of techniques.

For our initial purposes, you need Screwfix's finest cheapy and a
medium-quality artist's _watercolour_ brush with _synthetic_ (Golden
Taklon) bristles (most of the high-street "bookshops for the
illiterate" chains).Try a 3/4" or 1/2" filbert. Don't clean it
afterwards, just wipe it clean and soften it before use next time with
a splash of meths. You'll need plentry of meths too, best clear rather
than purple and ideally as non-stenched industrial meths, but the stuff
from the camping shop is fine too.

You can wipe it on too, but I wouldn't bother unless you want to learn
french polishing. Even so, you should start with a brush coat for the
first one, to get those internal corners around mouldings.

Screwfix shellac is, like most, still waxy. It works better if you
leave the bottles to stand for a week or two and then pour off the top
2/3rd into a separate bottle and use only that for finishing. The
bottom 1/3rd looks like old instant coffee and has a creamy opaqueness
to it. This is the particularly waxy component. Keep it and use it for
sanding sealer on jobs like this one, on bare timber for rough work, as
a friction polish for lathework, or as knotting under paint. The waxy
shellac doesn't give such a good final finish, but it does sand better.
Your first portion of "dewaxed" shellac also keeps better in liquid
storage.

For an initial coating, use Screwfix's diluted 50:50 with meths. This
gives a better coating and dries more quickly. You'll probably use a
lot of shellac that's extra-diluted, but you need to practice and get
the feel of it. One of the reasons for dissolving your own is simply so
that you can accurately control this dilution.

Every workshop should have some ready-dissolved shellac in it. Handy
stuff for all sorts of purposes.

Very many thanks for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive
answer to my posting. Your help is much appreciated.

ATB - David.

David C.Chapman - Chartered Engineer. FIEE. )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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design skills in the fields of counter-surveillance, electronic protection
and security. Visit our Web site at http://www.minda.co.uk
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Its becoming obvious that yours is in the 'Drivel' class. Capable of
reading and repeating parrot fashion, but not actually capable of
logical independent thought.

are you unable to figure out any way to make many tiny indentations in
softwood rapidly?


NT

wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Its becoming obvious that yours is in the 'Drivel' class. Capable of
reading and repeating parrot fashion, but not actually capable of
logical independent thought.

are you unable to figure out any way to make many tiny indentations in
softwood rapidly?

What would be the point? You can't disguise the grain in softwood. A
yellow/orange ground with offwhite specks is hardly an appealing prospect.
The Victorian art of graining started with a coat of paint to obscure
the original grain completely. The rest of the process, including the
feathers and all the other strange implements they used, almost amounted
to fine art.