Hi,

I am doing some work at home. I have a large bathroom which i want to
divide into two by a wall. One room will be a small toilet (it will
have the exiting toilet in the bathroom). The other room will be the
bathroom and I will have to install a new toilet unit in there
including running a waste pipe to the outside.

My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have a
window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom. Am i
obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?

Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?

Do i need to meet any other regulations?

Many thanks for any help

Peter

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I am doing some work at home. I have a large bathroom which i want to
divide into two by a wall. One room will be a small toilet (it will
have the exiting toilet in the bathroom). The other room will be the
bathroom and I will have to install a new toilet unit in there
including running a waste pipe to the outside.

My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have a
window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom. Am i
obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?

Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?

Do i need to meet any other regulations?

Many thanks for any help

Peter


Found this:
Building Regulations

The Building Regulations Document F1 (1995 Edition) outlines the importance
of ventilation and stipulates that mechanical ventilation must be installed
in kitchens, bath/shower rooms and toilets.

All Manrose fans comply with or exceed current Building Regulations and are
capable of extracting not less than 60 litres per second from kitchens and
not less than 15 litres per second from bath/shower rooms. This means that
humidity is removed at source before it can reach the cooler part of the
dwelling and cause damage.

Specific requirements of The Building Regulations Document F1 (1995 Edition)
on ventilation are as follows:
a.. Bathrooms:
The Regulations require a fan capable of minimum extract capacity of 15
litres per second 54m³hr (32CFM).


b.. Toilets:
The Regulations require a fan capable of at least 3 air changes per hour
and with a 15 minute over-run timer. N.B. 15 minute over-run is not a
requirement in Scotland.


c.. Kitchens:
The Regulations require a fan capable of extracting 60 litres per second
216m³hr (127CFM).


d.. Utility Rooms:
The Regulations require a fan capable of extracting 30 litres per second
108m³hr (63CFM).

In article .com,
wrote:
Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?

I'm not certain, but I think you do have to provide hand washing
facilities since it will be in effect a separate room. I would anyway -
not much point in a second loo if you have to use the main one to wash
your hands anyway.

--
*The average person falls asleep in seven minutes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:
Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?

I'm not certain, but I think you do have to provide hand washing
facilities since it will be in effect a separate room. I would anyway -
not much point in a second loo if you have to use the main one to wash
your hands anyway.

--
*The average person falls asleep in seven minutes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

....just don't touch the door handles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wrote:
Hi,

I am doing some work at home. I have a large bathroom which i want to
divide into two by a wall. One room will be a small toilet (it will
have the exiting toilet in the bathroom). The other room will be the
bathroom and I will have to install a new toilet unit in there
including running a waste pipe to the outside.

My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have a
window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom. Am i
obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?


IIRC both will need fans. No big deal.


Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?


I think so, but I'd try to put one in if I were you. Even a teensy one
is better than none at all.

Do i need to meet any other regulations?

Many thanks for any help

Peter

The thing is that the new toilet will be very small and there is not
room for even a small hand wash basin.

Now, reading Part G of the regulations, I noticed that it says:

1.3 Washbasins could be located in the room containing the closet or
in a room or space giving direct access to the room containing the
closet (Provided it is not used for the preparation of food) **or in a
room adjacent to the room containing the closet in the case of a
dwelling.**

From this i interpret the regulations that it is Ok to have the toilet
on its own provided that an adjacent room (in this case the bathroom)
provides handwashing facilities.

Am i interpreting this right?

wrote:
The thing is that the new toilet will be very small and there is not
room for even a small hand wash basin.


You would be surprised. If there is room to get your knees in there is
room for a washbasin.


Now, reading Part G of the regulations, I noticed that it says:

1.3 Washbasins could be located in the room containing the closet or
in a room or space giving direct access to the room containing the
closet (Provided it is not used for the preparation of food) **or in a
room adjacent to the room containing the closet in the case of a
dwelling.**

From this i interpret the regulations that it is Ok to have the toilet
on its own provided that an adjacent room (in this case the bathroom)
provides handwashing facilities.

Am i interpreting this right?


I think that means you can have a bog OFF a bathroom, or IN a bathroom,
but not next door to a bathroom. It depends on how you read adacent.

However, I would suggest that a bog without a washbowl is useless. I
wouldn't use it and I wouldn't buy a house with it.

If for no other reason than the ability to clean the space without
carrying buckets from next door.

However, I would suggest that a bog without a washbowl is useless. I
wouldn't use it and I wouldn't buy a house with it.

If for no other reason than the ability to clean the space without
carrying buckets from next door.

!!!! Funny that !!!!

The one that really convinced me was the one about the cleaning :-)
I guess I will have to re-think the plans and install a tiny washbowl
in there.!!!!

thanks

wrote:

Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?

Do i need to meet any other regulations?

You need building regulations approval to install a new sink or toilet.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The thing is that the new toilet will be very small and there is not
room for even a small hand wash basin.


You would be surprised. If there is room to get your knees in there is
room for a washbasin.

Anyone know where you can get one of those which is either totally or
partially recessed into the wall? Could be stainless steel or ceramic.

--
*Never kick a cow pat on a hot day *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article .com,
wrote:


However, I would suggest that a bog without a washbowl is useless. I
wouldn't use it and I wouldn't buy a house with it.

If for no other reason than the ability to clean the space without
carrying buckets from next door.

!!!! Funny that !!!!

The one that really convinced me was the one about the cleaning :-)
I guess I will have to re-think the plans and install a tiny washbowl
in there.!!!!

I would. Presumably you want a second toilet to ease the 'load' on the
main one? But if the washing facilities are only in the main bathroom it
sort of defeats the object.

--
*Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I am doing some work at home. I have a large bathroom which i want to
divide into two by a wall. One room will be a small toilet (it will
have the exiting toilet in the bathroom). The other room will be the
bathroom and I will have to install a new toilet unit in there
including running a waste pipe to the outside.
My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have a
window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom. Am i
obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?

Yes

Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?

No, you require a handwash.

You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -
they're not much bigger than a recessed soapdish. This one's only 250mm
depth from wall
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-2488

This one's 200mm
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-2971

Why would anyone want two taps on a basin? Silly idea.

Owain wrote:
wrote:
I am doing some work at home. I have a large bathroom which i want to
divide into two by a wall. One room will be a small toilet (it will
have the exiting toilet in the bathroom). The other room will be the
bathroom and I will have to install a new toilet unit in there
including running a waste pipe to the outside.
My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have a
window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom. Am i
obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?

Yes

Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?

No, you require a handwash.

You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -
they're not much bigger than a recessed soapdish. This one's only 250mm
depth from wall
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-2488

This one's 200mm
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-2971

Owain

Look at corner ones too. I managed to get a toilet and a basin alongside
each other. Its a squeeze, but it works. There is about an inch between
the cistern and the wall on one side and the basin corner on the other.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Why would anyone want two taps on a basin?

Because unlike you we don't all wash in a bucket of pond water?

In article ,
Owain wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -

Yes - but where?

--
*Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:14:37 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused:

In article ,
Owain wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -

Yes - but where?

Am I missing something here?
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Owain wrote:
Lurch wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -
Yes - but where?
Am I missing something here?

Yes, the fact that searching for "small recessed washbasin" on google
produces little of use.

I suspect this is one instance where the well-thumbed catalogue in the
merchant's triumphs over the interwebbynet.

Owain

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-0000
http://www.cheapsuites.co.uk/zpage/product_list/zsite/0005/zpricecat/0007.htm?gclid=CLjDvsm3340CFQndlAodrSeEYA

Owain wrote:
Lurch wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -
Yes - but where?
Am I missing something here?

Yes, the fact that searching for "small recessed washbasin" on google
produces little of use.

I suspect this is one instance where the well-thumbed catalogue in the
merchant's triumphs over the interwebbynet.

Owain

http://www.theinteriorshowroom.com/site/product.cfm?id=B0A3A42A-CDFA-8D14-2351EC09FF0603CC

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:14:37 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused:

In article ,
Owain wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -

Yes - but where?

Am I missing something here?

Couldn't see one at Plumbworld. Google on insert gives the type that you
insert in a worktop - recessed the same. Dunno what else it would be
called.

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:52:20 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused:

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:14:37 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused:

In article ,
Owain wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -

Yes - but where?

Am I missing something here?

Couldn't see one at Plumbworld. Google on insert gives the type that you
insert in a worktop - recessed the same. Dunno what else it would be
called.

Ah, I see the links posted by TNP were not actually what he said they
were, or inferred they were anyway. My mistake, should have followed
the links first.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Owain wrote:
Lurch wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -
Yes - but where?
Am I missing something here?

Yes, the fact that searching for "small recessed washbasin" on google
produces little of use.

I suspect this is one instance where the well-thumbed catalogue in the
merchant's triumphs over the interwebbynet.

Owain

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-0000
http://www.cheapsuites.co.uk/zpage/product_list/zsite/0005/zpricecat/0007.htm?gclid=CLjDvsm3340CFQndlAodrSeEYA

No cigar, I'm afraid. Non of those recess into a wall.

--
*Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 00:26:09 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Owain wrote:
Lurch wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -
Yes - but where?
Am I missing something here?

Yes, the fact that searching for "small recessed washbasin" on google
produces little of use.

I suspect this is one instance where the well-thumbed catalogue in the
merchant's triumphs over the interwebbynet.

Owain

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-0000
http://www.cheapsuites.co.uk/zpage/product_list/zsite/0005/zpricecat/0007.htm?gclid=CLjDvsm3340CFQndlAodrSeEYA

No cigar, I'm afraid. Non of those recess into a wall.

http://www.mgstainless.co.uk/MGSTAINLESSCATALOGUEforwebPDF.pdf

B1207 on page 20.

About the only one I can find atm, need t sit down with some
catalogues I think.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

No cigar, I'm afraid. Non of those recess into a wall.

http://www.ribaproductselector.com/D...f=COL807875.pd
f&ci=7875&from=4

http://www.britex.com.au/bowlsbasins...0Security%20Ha
nd%20Basin

http://www.bathroomsjustforyou.co.uk....asp?cID=26&pI
D=422

The last one needs a niche building for it in the wall.

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:14:37 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused:

In article ,
Owain wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -

Yes - but where?

Am I missing something here?

No. He cleary is - always.

In message , Steve Firth
writes
wrote:

Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?

Do i need to meet any other regulations?

You need building regulations approval to install a new sink or toilet.

is this true even if the new toilet isn't plumbed in?

--
dave @ stejonda

Lurch wrote:
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 00:26:09 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Owain wrote:
Lurch wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -
Yes - but where?
Am I missing something here?
Yes, the fact that searching for "small recessed washbasin" on google
produces little of use.

I suspect this is one instance where the well-thumbed catalogue in the
merchant's triumphs over the interwebbynet.

Owain

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-0000
http://www.cheapsuites.co.uk/zpage/product_list/zsite/0005/zpricecat/0007.htm?gclid=CLjDvsm3340CFQndlAodrSeEYA
No cigar, I'm afraid. Non of those recess into a wall.

http://www.mgstainless.co.uk/MGSTAINLESSCATALOGUEforwebPDF.pdf

B1207 on page 20.

About the only one I can find atm, need t sit down with some
catalogues I think.

Oh., I just thought you wanted small ones.

You can recess anything into a wall. Just remove a bit of wall.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Lurch wrote:
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 00:26:09 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Owain wrote:
Lurch wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the
wall -
Yes - but where?
Am I missing something here?
Yes, the fact that searching for "small recessed washbasin" on google
produces little of use.

I suspect this is one instance where the well-thumbed catalogue in the
merchant's triumphs over the interwebbynet.

Owain

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-0000
http://www.cheapsuites.co.uk/zpage/product_list/zsite/0005/zpricecat/0007.htm?gclid=CLjDvsm3340CFQndlAodrSeEYA
No cigar, I'm afraid. Non of those recess into a wall.

http://www.mgstainless.co.uk/MGSTAINLESSCATALOGUEforwebPDF.pdf

B1207 on page 20.

About the only one I can find atm, need t sit down with some
catalogues I think.

Oh., I just thought you wanted small ones.

You can recess anything into a wall. Just remove a bit of wall.

I know the ones he means (they are *meant* to be recessed) can't find them
now though....


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Anyone know where you can get one of those which is either totally or
partially recessed into the wall? Could be stainless steel or ceramic.

Your nearest McDonalds ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 12:10:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I think that means you can have a bog OFF a bathroom, or IN a bathroom,
but not next door to a bathroom. It depends on how you read adacent.

However, I would suggest that a bog without a washbowl is useless. I
wouldn't use it and I wouldn't buy a house with it.

If for no other reason than the ability to clean the space without
carrying buckets from next door.
I believe that you can have a toilet, which does not have itsiown
basin, next to a bathroom. Can't remember my source though. A call to
BCO will clear that one up. Might have been Tower Hamlets
Supplementary Planning Guidance.

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 00:26:09 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
mused:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Owain wrote:
Lurch wrote:
You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -
Yes - but where?
Am I missing something here?

Yes, the fact that searching for "small recessed washbasin" on google
produces little of use.

I suspect this is one instance where the well-thumbed catalogue in the
merchant's triumphs over the interwebbynet.

Owain

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-0000
http://www.cheapsuites.co.uk/zpage/product_list/zsite/0005/zpricecat/0007.htm?gclid=CLjDvsm3340CFQndlAodrSeEYA

No cigar, I'm afraid. Non of those recess into a wall.

http://www.mgstainless.co.uk/MGSTAINLESSCATALOGUEforwebPDF.pdf

B1207 on page 20.

About the only one I can find atm, need t sit down with some
catalogues I think.

That's closer and would do, but I've seen ones that take two conventional
taps.

--
*If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "dave @ stejonda"
writes
In message , Steve Firth
writes
wrote:

Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?

Do i need to meet any other regulations?

You need building regulations approval to install a new sink or toilet.

is this true even if the new toilet isn't plumbed in?

Sorry, that's ambiguous. I wasn't trying to be funny.

If the new toilet is not plumbed either to the water or mains drainage
because it's a composting toilet, would it still need building reg.
approval?

--
dave @ stejonda

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember saying
something like:

My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have a
window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom. Am i
obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?

Only if you excrete the British Standard Turd more than twice daily.
--

Dave

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:13:11 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember saying
something like:

My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have a
window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom. Am i
obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?

Only if you excrete the British Standard Turd more than twice daily.

They're now deprecated units. You now have to use the 'Giscard'.

--
Frank Erskine

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember saying
something like:

My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have a
window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom. Am i
obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?

Only if you excrete the British Standard Turd more than twice daily.
No, irrespective of the turd ratio you need the fan.

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:13:11 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember saying
something like:

My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have
a window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom.
Am i obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?

Only if you excrete the British Standard Turd more than twice daily.

They're now deprecated units. You now have to use the 'Giscard'.

Euroturd?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:39:54 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:13:11 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember saying
something like:

My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have
a window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom.
Am i obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?

Only if you excrete the British Standard Turd more than twice daily.

They're now deprecated units. You now have to use the 'Giscard'.

Euroturd?

That's him.

--
Frank Erskine

On 5 Aug, 14:16, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Owain" wrote in message

...



wrote:
I am doing some work at home. I have a large bathroom which i want to
divide into two by a wall. One room will be a small toilet (it will
have the exiting toilet in the bathroom). The other room will be the
bathroom and I will have to install a new toilet unit in there
including running a waste pipe to the outside.
My question is what building regulations should i have to meet here.
For example, I am unsure about ventilation. The bathroom will have a
window but the small toilet will not. the toilet will only have a
solid wall to the outside and an adjoining wall to the bathroom. Am i
obliged to have ventilation in that small toilet?

Yes

Also, I am guessing that i do not need a handwash basin in the small
toilet since the bathroom will be next door and it provides a handwash
basin. am i correct in this reading of the regulations?

No, you require a handwash.

You can get *really* small handwashbasins that inset into the wall -
they're not much bigger than a recessed soapdish. This one's only 250mm
depth from wall
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-2488

This one's 200mm
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1627-2971

Why would anyone want two taps on a basin? Silly idea.

I have one of these basins. They're OK. But as you say, if I did it
again, I would only fit one tap. Either have a mixer, or a fixed
temperature mixer elsewhere fed to a single, regular tap. With a basin
that small, there's just not enough space to use 2 taps!
Jon.