In article ,
Julian wrote:
I'm not sure it is - corrosion tends to start between the lead and
steel.

I suppose if you're using to slap over rust then yes, it prolly does.
But I'll bet you a £ to a penny that in similar circumstances corrosion
will bleed through a 'repair' with resin almost overnight.

Means Rolls Royce must have used rusty steel on their new cars, then. I
owned one where the lead loading was lifting through corrosion - and not
where you'd expect 'normal' rust. Decent body filler used over clean steel
doesn't seem to do this.

I'm willing to bet lead loading isn't used these days - apart from on
restorations where they are picky about accuracy.

--
*Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Cicero wrote:
If I ever feel the urge to try lead loading again I'll remember to try a
rasp which I've used on roofing lead to shape around pipes etc.

Seems lead loading has gone lead free...

http://eastwood.resultspage.com/search?p=Q&lbc=eastwood&uid=620127818&ts=custom&w= lead&af=c3_leadingbodysolder&isort=score&method=an d

--
*Where do forest rangers go to "get away from it all?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 19:43:39 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

Even though the some old Astons had steering linkage fabricated by
brazing....

Old Astons have an entire chassis fabricated with it. The "superleggera"
construction (not just Astons) uses a lot of brazing for tube joints.

In message , Julian
writes
Didn't you find it difficult to sand to a decent finish? When I tried it
it clogged the paper constantly even using 'wet and dry'. Standard body
filler seems to be the modern way.

As has been pointed out you need a rasp or file.

Just a small word of warning, (and I try hard to distance myself from the
modern phenomenon of the safety Nazi culture) sanding lead produces dust
which is not too good for health if you breath enough of it in.

Yeah, it results in heavy breathing


--
geoff

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Julian wrote:
I'm not sure it is - corrosion tends to start between the lead and
steel.

I suppose if you're using to slap over rust then yes, it prolly does.
But I'll bet you a £ to a penny that in similar circumstances corrosion
will bleed through a 'repair' with resin almost overnight.

Means Rolls Royce must have used rusty steel on their new cars, then. I
owned one where the lead loading was lifting through corrosion - and not
where you'd expect 'normal' rust. Decent body filler used over clean steel
doesn't seem to do this.

I suppose that's what you get for running around in common tat. My vehicles
exhibits no such tendency...


I'm willing to bet lead loading isn't used these days - apart from on
restorations where they are picky about accuracy.

I'm willing to bet that I'll have Shredded Wheat for breakfast - your point
being.....

Julian

"AJH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 14:02:40 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

I've got a 200A inverter welder that does only stick. It's fantastic and
welds as smoothly as the old 'Oxford' oil cooled transformer welders.

Yes I've tried a small one and they zing along. As I said apparently
you can get these that do tig and mig also and can be picked up in one
hand!

Yes, I've seen them - about £1000 just now. I wonder about spares in a few
years time? If one component goes duff you could loose the lot maybe


I used a large MIG at work that would weld 5/8 plate in a single pass,

What always worries me (prolly without good cause) is the strength of weld
you get. You'll not be getting the penetration of stick. I prefer to see MIG
used on mass production work like galv water troughs or gates perhaps -
leave the serious stuff to stick...

Julian.

In article ,
Julian wrote:
I'm willing to bet lead loading isn't used these days - apart from on
restorations where they are picky about accuracy.

I'm willing to bet that I'll have Shredded Wheat for breakfast - your
point being.....

That there are more suitable modern ways. Thought that would be obvious.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:40:22 +0100, AJH
wrote:

I assume I only achieve dip transfer with my hobby mig,

Depends on your grade of "hobby". I use a couple of larger "hobby"
machines, a 300 quid Cebora and a 500 quid Murex and they'll both do
spray transfer easily. The idea that spray transfer is unachievable
outside of a factory is a myth spread by people who either bought a SIP,
or who persist in using CO2.

I wonder about the effects of chilling at the joint as effectively
you're dropping a blob of hot metal onto a colder bit of metal

That's not dip transfer, that's globular transfer (the bad one). Dip
transfer sticks a cold wire into a warm pool on cold metal, then heats
all of it in situ. penetration isn't as good as spray, but fusion is
perfectly good.

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 22:06:53 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Means Rolls Royce must have used rusty steel on their new cars,

Of course they did! In the mid-70s at least. Jaguar too. This was one
of their major quality problems at the time -- panels were coming from
Pressed Steel Fisher and all sorts of things were happening en route,
often involving pallets sitting around in rain for days whilst shop
stewards finihsed their sandwiches in Downing Street

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Means Rolls Royce must have used rusty steel on their new cars,

Of course they did! In the mid-70s at least. Jaguar too. This was one
of their major quality problems at the time -- panels were coming from
Pressed Steel Fisher and all sorts of things were happening en route,
often involving pallets sitting around in rain for days whilst shop
stewards finihsed their sandwiches in Downing Street

The one I was referring to was a Cloud I registered in '57. Made out of
extremely thick steel - although some panels were aluminium. It used lead
loading in a few places to blend panels together.

FWIW I'd expect problems (in time) where two very dissimilar metals are
electrically bonded like this - you get a chemical reaction.

--
*A person who smiles in the face of adversity probably has a scapegoat *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:45:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

FWIW I'd expect problems (in time) where two very dissimilar metals are
electrically bonded like this - you get a chemical reaction.

Depends somewhat on their relative electronegativity. Aluminium's a
hassle, lead and steel aren't so bad. It's also much more of a problem
where there's a _poor_ connection between the pieces and you get
corrosion cells formed. If they're well soldered over a broad area then
they're simply polarised.

This is of course why Astons are such dreadful rot boxes and Bristols
aren't. They have similar potential problems with Al body panels, but
Bristol's background with aircraft taught them how to avoid it.

Andy Dingley wrote:


If you can find / buy one, an automatic helmet is well worth it (70ish
quid these days)

or £30 and upwards from eBay ;-)

Richard

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Julian wrote:
I'm willing to bet lead loading isn't used these days - apart from on
restorations where they are picky about accuracy.

I'm willing to bet that I'll have Shredded Wheat for breakfast - your
point being.....

That there are more suitable modern ways. Thought that would be obvious.

It is obvious, that's why you left me perplexed! Of course nobody has the
time (or skill) required to use lead loading when repairing modern vehicles.
The vintage and restoration world is another story however, and judging from
the 'Frost' catalogue it's still very much alive.

Putting polyester filler on your old Rolls would be like sticking Marley
tiles on an old tythe barn IMO.

Julian.

"AJH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 04:17:39 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

I used a large MIG at work that would weld 5/8 plate in a single pass,

What always worries me (prolly without good cause) is the strength of weld
you get. You'll not be getting the penetration of stick. I prefer to see
MIG
used on mass production work like galv water troughs or gates perhaps -
leave the serious stuff to stick...

I don't know but it was welding a lorry propshaft (450 hp) and the
fitter welded as I rotated the shaft, using coogar shielding gas. The
weld looked very clean and it held for the period I was driving the
machine. I don't think I would have done as well with stick. The
advantage with mig seems to be that you can actually build up a thick
fillet with good fusion where the stick risks inclusions and the slag
forming limits how long you can dwell and thicken the bead.

I'm sure you're correct, I just have a mental blockage when I see hefty
lumps of structural steel welded with a thin wire. But of course it works
fine - tried and tested.

Julian.

In article , Julian
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Julian
wrote:
I'm willing to bet lead loading isn't used these days - apart from
on restorations where they are picky about accuracy.

I'm willing to bet that I'll have Shredded Wheat for breakfast -
your point being.....

That there are more suitable modern ways. Thought that would be
obvious.

It is obvious, that's why you left me perplexed! Of course nobody has
the time (or skill) required to use lead loading when repairing modern
vehicles.

I'm not talking necessarily about repair, but original build. I've done
some lead loading and it's not *that* difficult a skill to acquire. But
the reasons it's not used now is that there are better, lighter, cheaper
and safer methods to get a perfect contour.

The vintage and restoration world is another story however,
and judging from the 'Frost' catalogue it's still very much alive.

Frost would only have to sell one item a year at their prices to make it
worthwhile stocking.

Putting polyester filler on your old Rolls would be like sticking Marley
tiles on an old tythe barn IMO.

Very old vehicles probably don't have much in the way of lead loading. It
became popular with '50s curvy shapes that were impossible - then - to
press properly. I'd not be worried about a better filler or primer etc
being used on such a vehicle.

--
*Save a tree, eat a beaver*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 04:17:39 GMT, "Julian" wrote:

What always worries me (prolly without good cause) is the strength of weld
you get. You'll not be getting the penetration of stick.

No, so you have to shape the V notch more first. Then you use multiple
passes. Fusion is still good (lots of power density).

The problem with stick is that _any_ welder, of any competence still has
to stop and change rods. That's time to cool down, and time to start
getting inclusions. For that reason, and that reason alone. continuous
wire-feed has an advantage,

A lot of heavy structural steel isn't MIG'ed anyway. It's done instead
with a submerged arc process, where there's a groove-following robot, a
wire feed and power supply like MIG, but shield gas is replaced by a
powdered flux (like manual stick) instead. There's a slag layer to
clear off after each pass, but a pass on a long weld can be done in just
one go.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Julian
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Julian
wrote:
I'm willing to bet lead loading isn't used these days - apart from
on restorations where they are picky about accuracy.

I'm willing to bet that I'll have Shredded Wheat for breakfast -
your point being.....

That there are more suitable modern ways. Thought that would be
obvious.

It is obvious, that's why you left me perplexed! Of course nobody has
the time (or skill) required to use lead loading when repairing modern
vehicles.

I'm not talking necessarily about repair, but original build. I've done
some lead loading and it's not *that* difficult a skill to acquire. But
the reasons it's not used now is that there are better, lighter, cheaper
and safer methods to get a perfect contour.


But modern 'roller skate' cars won't really have filler used during
production will they? (save the odd bit on a ding or two maybe)



The vintage and restoration world is another story however,
and judging from the 'Frost' catalogue it's still very much alive.

Frost would only have to sell one item a year at their prices to make it
worthwhile stocking.

With comments like that I'm beginning to understand where your 'plantpot'
reputation comes from. It's a valid point - equipment (such as it is) is
readily available.


Putting polyester filler on your old Rolls would be like sticking Marley
tiles on an old tythe barn IMO.

Very old vehicles probably don't have much in the way of lead loading. It
became popular with '50s curvy shapes that were impossible - then - to
press properly. I'd not be worried about a better filler or primer etc
being used on such a vehicle.

But it does shrink sometimes. I've got one vehicle where the PO had rear
wheel arch repairs grafted in, at certain angles you can see, what looks to
me, to be filler shrinkage. I'd love to strip it back to metal and have a go
at lead loading it but suspect It would end as a balls up.

Julian.

In article ,
Julian wrote:
The vintage and restoration world is another story however, and
judging from the 'Frost' catalogue it's still very much alive.

Frost would only have to sell one item a year at their prices to make
it worthwhile stocking.

With comments like that I'm beginning to understand where your
'plantpot' reputation comes from.

If you want to throw your lot in with dribble you're welcome. You might
make a good pair.

It's a valid point - equipment (such as it is) is readily available.

Anything is readily available by mail order from somewhere in the world.
Most would consider 'readily available' car body filler to be sold by the
likes of Halfords for amateur use or a paint supplier for pro - not some
catalogue sales outfit that adds a couple of noughts onto every price tag.
Still if you feel they are good value - carry on. A fool and his money are
soon parted.


Putting polyester filler on your old Rolls would be like sticking
Marley tiles on an old tythe barn IMO.

Very old vehicles probably don't have much in the way of lead loading.
It became popular with '50s curvy shapes that were impossible - then -
to press properly. I'd not be worried about a better filler or primer
etc being used on such a vehicle.

But it does shrink sometimes. I've got one vehicle where the PO had rear
wheel arch repairs grafted in, at certain angles you can see, what
looks to me, to be filler shrinkage. I'd love to strip it back to metal
and have a go at lead loading it but suspect It would end as a balls up.

I can't see the PO using the best materials and workmanship for that sort
of repair.

--
*It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.