A designer prepared some plans, and the client employed a builder to
do the work.

The builder put a floor in at an incorrect height. On the plans there
were specific details relating to certain parts of the work - not
specifically the floor, but other items. But these were standard or
typical details, and whilst a floor was indicated it was only showed
for completeness, and not for building to.

Other parts of the drawing showed the floor in a different place, and
text mentioned the need for the builder to notify discrepencies prior
to building, and to follow existing levels.

Rather than use his expertise, measure the floor position, or check
other parts of the drawing and notify the discrepancies the builder
followed what he thought to be the correct drawing and put a floor in
at the wrong height.

In the builders view he "followed the drawing".

The designer says he did not follow the drawing, but misread it.

The client believes that he is 'in the middle' and believes the
builder and designer should sort the problem out between them - ie
someone has to pay for remedial work.

But do the designer and builder have any relationship so that one may
claim from the other? Or is it down to one to claim from the client
and the client then claim from the other?

dg

dg wrote in news:1184890607.872241.27220@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

A designer prepared some plans, and the client employed a builder to
do the work.

The builder put a floor in at an incorrect height. On the plans there
were specific details relating to certain parts of the work - not
specifically the floor, but other items. But these were standard or
typical details, and whilst a floor was indicated it was only showed
for completeness, and not for building to.

Other parts of the drawing showed the floor in a different place, and
text mentioned the need for the builder to notify discrepencies prior
to building, and to follow existing levels.

Rather than use his expertise, measure the floor position, or check
other parts of the drawing and notify the discrepancies the builder
followed what he thought to be the correct drawing and put a floor in
at the wrong height.

In the builders view he "followed the drawing".

The designer says he did not follow the drawing, but misread it.

The client believes that he is 'in the middle' and believes the
builder and designer should sort the problem out between them - ie
someone has to pay for remedial work.

But do the designer and builder have any relationship so that one may
claim from the other? Or is it down to one to claim from the client
and the client then claim from the other?

dg


I would strongly suggest you go to uk.legal.moderated for advice on this
question.

Terry W.

"dg" wrote in message
ps.com...
A designer prepared some plans, and the client employed a builder to
do the work.

The builder put a floor in at an incorrect height. On the plans there
were specific details relating to certain parts of the work - not
specifically the floor, but other items. But these were standard or
typical details, and whilst a floor was indicated it was only showed
for completeness, and not for building to.

Other parts of the drawing showed the floor in a different place, and
text mentioned the need for the builder to notify discrepencies prior
to building, and to follow existing levels.

Rather than use his expertise, measure the floor position, or check
other parts of the drawing and notify the discrepancies the builder
followed what he thought to be the correct drawing and put a floor in
at the wrong height.

In the builders view he "followed the drawing".

The designer says he did not follow the drawing, but misread it.

The client believes that he is 'in the middle' and believes the
builder and designer should sort the problem out between them - ie
someone has to pay for remedial work.

But do the designer and builder have any relationship so that one may
claim from the other? Or is it down to one to claim from the client
and the client then claim from the other?

The answer will be in your coursework notes.

Colin Bignell

But do the designer and builder have any relationship so that one may
claim from the other? Or is it down to one to claim from the client
and the client then claim from the other?

Unless they made a contract with each other - no. You have 2 separate
contracts. You (or your legal adviser) must decide which, if either,
is in breach.

Or you can accept that mistakes happen in all professions, and that
you the customer should accept this if it is part of an otherwise good
service.

On 20 Jul, 08:39, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my surname
here.uk.com wrote:
"dg" wrote in message

ps.com...





A designer prepared some plans, and the client employed a builder to
do the work.

The builder put a floor in at an incorrect height. On the plans there
were specific details relating to certain parts of the work - not
specifically the floor, but other items. But these were standard or
typical details, and whilst a floor was indicated it was only showed
for completeness, and not for building to.

Other parts of the drawing showed the floor in a different place, and
text mentioned the need for the builder to notify discrepencies prior
to building, and to follow existing levels.

Rather than use his expertise, measure the floor position, or check
other parts of the drawing and notify the discrepancies the builder
followed what he thought to be the correct drawing and put a floor in
at the wrong height.

In the builders view he "followed the drawing".

The designer says he did not follow the drawing, but misread it.

The client believes that he is 'in the middle' and believes the
builder and designer should sort the problem out between them - ie
someone has to pay for remedial work.

But do the designer and builder have any relationship so that one may
claim from the other? Or is it down to one to claim from the client
and the client then claim from the other?

The answer will be in your coursework notes.

Colin Bignell- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've looked up in the loft, but it has been about 15 years since I
covered this at uni, and could not find anything

dg

On 20 Jul, 09:22, " wrote:
But do the designer and builder have any relationship so that one may
claim from the other? Or is it down to one to claim from the client
and the client then claim from the other?

Unless they made a contract with each other - no. You have 2 separate
contracts. You (or your legal adviser) must decide which, if either,
is in breach.

Or you can accept that mistakes happen in all professions, and that
you the customer should accept this if it is part of an otherwise good
service.

That was my initial thought, in that contractural relations exist only
between the client/builder and client/designer.

I just wondered if there was any precedent in which a duty is owed
directly between the builder and designer, which could allow claims
between them.

dg

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:51:54 -0700, dg wrote:

That was my initial thought, in that contractural relations exist only
between the client/builder and client/designer.

I just wondered if there was any precedent in which a duty is owed
directly between the builder and designer, which could allow claims
between them.

IANAL. From a common-sense POV (which I realise may not have anything
to do with the legal position), I should think that the client would
have a claim over either or both the builder & architect if, and only
if it could be shown that they were negligent.

I would expect a builder to spot any obvious problem with the work he
is carrying out, and not to proceed with anything that his experience
and expertise indicates might be a problem, and would have a duty of
care toward his client to question such things rather than blindly
follow a drawing.

I would similarly expect an architect to double-check that drawings
are correct and consistent.

It could be, however, that the drawings were correct but ambiguous in
a way that the architect was not negligent by not realising it, and
the the builder interpreted them in a way that was neither
unreasonable, nor would it be expected to cause the builder to see
that something was amiss before the damage was done and rectification
required.

Perhaps the client should have required (and paid for) the architect
to visit the construction site before each key stage of the
construction to verify that the previous stage had been completed
correctly, and that pegs or other markers relating to the next stage
of construction were in the correct positions - and sign to state that
he had checked and approved. Perhaps an architect who does not
*insist* on doing that could be regarded as being negligent?

Additional excavating and re-marking etc. is trivial and inexpensive.
Once the concrete has been poured, recification of a mistake becomes
expensive and time consuming.

--
Cynic

"dg" wrote in message
ps.com...
A designer prepared some plans, and the client employed a builder to
do the work.

The builder put a floor in at an incorrect height. On the plans there
were specific details relating to certain parts of the work - not
specifically the floor, but other items. But these were standard or
typical details, and whilst a floor was indicated it was only showed
for completeness, and not for building to.

Other parts of the drawing showed the floor in a different place, and
text mentioned the need for the builder to notify discrepencies prior
to building, and to follow existing levels.

Rather than use his expertise, measure the floor position, or check
other parts of the drawing and notify the discrepancies the builder
followed what he thought to be the correct drawing and put a floor in
at the wrong height.

In the builders view he "followed the drawing".

The designer says he did not follow the drawing, but misread it.

The client believes that he is 'in the middle' and believes the
builder and designer should sort the problem out between them - ie
someone has to pay for remedial work.

But do the designer and builder have any relationship so that one may
claim from the other? Or is it down to one to claim from the client
and the client then claim from the other?

dg

Your post is about as ambiguous as the plans appear to be

'a designer prepared some plans'
who commissioned him the client or the builder?

For designer should we assume architect (that is some one whose level of
skill and expertise should be sufficient to produce adequate plans and
against whom action could be taken if they were not so) or some other person
who created an impression of the finished project and who could not be held
responsible for an absence of detail or structural deficiencies?

You say that the height of a floor was incorrect
But then say it was not specifically referred to

You say that a floor (presumably an existing one as it was not to be built
to) was only shown for completeness and not for building to
then you say that the text said to follow existing levels

You then say that other parts of the drawing show the floor in a different
place
Is that the same as a different height?
Does this refer to an existing floor or the incorrectly built one?

What has the client done or failed to do that any one would want claim from
him?

In answer to your question there is no contractual relationship between the
designer and the builder

However to the nub.......

What do you estimate to be the cost of rectifying the problem?

Has the designer been paid yet?

Has the builder been paid yet?

is work continuing or is the project currently suspended?

These are important considerations in deciding who takes the legal action if
it is indeed necessary

Tony