Had to rebuild a small part of a garden wall tother day, needed about 20 new
bricks.

Found a pretty good colour match in Wickes, but instead of a frog the bricks
had three 2" holes in them.

I can see a few benefits for Wickes - the brick must be cheaper to make
(less clay) and you use more mortar.

I guess they would maybe make a stronger bond due to the mortar locking into
the holes, but you can't allow an edge to show like normal bricks.

So why do they make them like that?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Had to rebuild a small part of a garden wall tother day, needed about 20
new bricks.

Found a pretty good colour match in Wickes, but instead of a frog the
bricks had three 2" holes in them.

I can see a few benefits for Wickes - the brick must be cheaper to make
(less clay) and you use more mortar.

I guess they would maybe make a stronger bond due to the mortar locking
into the holes, but you can't allow an edge to show like normal bricks.

So why do they make them like that?

Maybe they are extruded and have holes to make them lighter.
I think the frog is in pressed bricks to make them lighter but it may reduce
cracking during firing.

Found a pretty good colour match in Wickes, but instead of a frog the bricks
had three 2" holes in them.

I can see a few benefits for Wickes - the brick must be cheaper to make
(less clay) and you use more mortar.

I guess they would maybe make a stronger bond due to the mortar locking into
the holes, but you can't allow an edge to show like normal bricks.

So why do they make them like that?


I was told some years ago by a worker in our local brickworks that the
frog was there to allow the heat during making to reach the centre of
the brick. It had nothing to do with the bricks subsequent use. I was
told the hole variety had holes for the same purpose.
Does anybody know if this is true?
--
..

In article ,
. wrote:
I was told some years ago by a worker in our local brickworks that the
frog was there to allow the heat during making to reach the centre of
the brick. It had nothing to do with the bricks subsequent use. I was
told the hole variety had holes for the same purpose.
Does anybody know if this is true?

I'm not an expert bricklayer - quite the reverse, but laying frogless
bricks is far harder than ones with frogs as they tend to slip around more.

--
*In "Casablanca", Humphrey Bogart never said "Play it again, Sam" *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Had to rebuild a small part of a garden wall tother day, needed about 20
new bricks.

Found a pretty good colour match in Wickes, but instead of a frog the
bricks had three 2" holes in them.

I can see a few benefits for Wickes - the brick must be cheaper to make
(less clay) and you use more mortar.

I guess they would maybe make a stronger bond due to the mortar locking
into the holes, but you can't allow an edge to show like normal bricks.

So why do they make them like that?

Insulation?

--
*42.7% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that should read 47.2% *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Had to rebuild a small part of a garden wall tother day, needed about
20 new bricks.

Found a pretty good colour match in Wickes, but instead of a frog the
bricks had three 2" holes in them.

I can see a few benefits for Wickes - the brick must be cheaper to
make (less clay) and you use more mortar.

I guess they would maybe make a stronger bond due to the mortar
locking into the holes, but you can't allow an edge to show like
normal bricks.
So why do they make them like that?

The only bricks I have come across with 3 holes in have been
semi-engineering bricks - which are frost-resistant, and used below the DPC
in houses, whereas bricks with frogs are usually either facing bricks or
common bricks, and are used above the DPC.

(Semi-)Engineering bricks are fine (better than house bricks) for garden
walls - as long as there's some sort of capping over the top - otherwise the
holes will show!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On 16 Jul, 00:34, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
. wrote:

I was told some years ago by a worker in our local brickworks that the
frog was there to allow the heat during making to reach the centre of
the brick. It had nothing to do with the bricks subsequent use. I was
told the hole variety had holes for the same purpose.
Does anybody know if this is true?

I'm not an expert bricklayer - quite the reverse, but laying frogless
bricks is far harder than ones with frogs as they tend to slip around more.

--
*In "Casablanca", Humphrey Bogart never said "Play it again, Sam" *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

You're supposed to lay them frog up!

Why on earth is it called a "frog" anyway?

T.

On 16 Jul, 12:09, "Roger Mills" wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Had to rebuild a small part of a garden wall tother day, needed about
20 new bricks.

Found a pretty good colour match in Wickes, but instead of a frog the
bricks had three 2" holes in them.

I can see a few benefits for Wickes - the brick must be cheaper to
make (less clay) and you use more mortar.

I guess they would maybe make a stronger bond due to the mortar
locking into the holes, but you can't allow an edge to show like
normal bricks.
So why do they make them like that?

The only bricks I have come across with 3 holes in have been
semi-engineering bricks - which are frost-resistant, and used below the DPC
in houses, whereas bricks with frogs are usually either facing bricks or
common bricks, and are used above the DPC.

(Semi-)Engineering bricks are fine (better than house bricks) for garden
walls - as long as there's some sort of capping over the top - otherwise the
holes will show!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

The only bricks I have seen for years have the 3 holes. Everytime you
see a pallet of bricks awaiting a brickie for a new extension etc, it
is 3 holes.
Also looking around builders yard, B&Q etc, 3 holes.
Maybe it depends on the part of the country. Frogs use more mortar,
and would be a pain using a bed template (like brickie tool etc). The
video demo-ing this tool also has 3-hole bricks.
3-hole bricks will be wire-cut and a more consistent size, frogs will
be made in the trad manner or repro.
Simon.

In article .com,
wrote:
I'm not an expert bricklayer - quite the reverse, but laying frogless
bricks is far harder than ones with frogs as they tend to slip around
more.

You're supposed to lay them frog up!

And the frog grips the mortar better so the brick can only slide on the
mortar rather than the mortar sliding too.

--
*I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:34:14 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
. wrote:
I was told some years ago by a worker in our local brickworks that the
frog was there to allow the heat during making to reach the centre of
the brick. It had nothing to do with the bricks subsequent use. I was
told the hole variety had holes for the same purpose.
Does anybody know if this is true?

I'm not an expert bricklayer - quite the reverse, but laying frogless
bricks is far harder than ones with frogs as they tend to slip around more.

I've also being told that laying brings with the frogs down (a common
cheat on older building) saves 25% on mortar and reduce the strength by 50%.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

wrote in message
oups.com...
On 16 Jul, 00:34, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
. wrote:

I was told some years ago by a worker in our local brickworks
that the
frog was there to allow the heat during making to reach the
centre of
the brick. It had nothing to do with the bricks subsequent use. I
was
told the hole variety had holes for the same purpose.
Does anybody know if this is true?

I'm not an expert bricklayer - quite the reverse, but laying
frogless
bricks is far harder than ones with frogs as they tend to slip
around more.


You're supposed to lay them frog up!

When I was shown how to lay bricks (in the early 1970's) all the
brick-layers laid them frog down, perhaps things have changed since I
was a yound lad...


Why on earth is it called a "frog" anyway?


I suspect that it's got something to do with the 'vee' shape, failing
that, perhaps the origins of the depression is French!

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
snip

I've also being told that laying brings with the frogs down (a
common
cheat on older building) saves 25% on mortar and reduce the strength
by 50%.


Why should it reduce the bonding strength? Surely it's got more to do
with the amount of mortar applied, although I can see that it's
probably easier to skimp if you have a flat surface.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:43:05 +0000 (UTC) Ed Sirett wrote :
I've also being told that laying brings with the frogs down
(a common cheat on older building) saves 25% on mortar and
reduce the strength by 50%.

Probably more than 25% for deep frog bricks like LBC Flettons.
As far as strength is concerned, this is very rarely a factor
except under bearings and in narrow piers, and bricks should
also be laid frog up below dpc level. In ordinary walls I
wouldn't call it a cheat, just normal practice.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

:Jerry: wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
On 16 Jul, 00:34, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
. wrote:

I was told some years ago by a worker in our local brickworks
that the
frog was there to allow the heat during making to reach the
centre of
the brick. It had nothing to do with the bricks subsequent use. I
was
told the hole variety had holes for the same purpose.
Does anybody know if this is true?
I'm not an expert bricklayer - quite the reverse, but laying
frogless
bricks is far harder than ones with frogs as they tend to slip
around more.

You're supposed to lay them frog up!

When I was shown how to lay bricks (in the early 1970's) all the
brick-layers laid them frog down, perhaps things have changed since I
was a yound lad...


Saves mortar: you don't HAVE to fill the frog with it..

Why on earth is it called a "frog" anyway?


I suspect that it's got something to do with the 'vee' shape, failing
that, perhaps the origins of the depression is French!


The origin of *all* depression, is French.

":Jerry:" wrote in message
reenews.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...
On 16 Jul, 00:34, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
. wrote:

I was told some years ago by a worker in our local brickworks that the
frog was there to allow the heat during making to reach the centre of
the brick. It had nothing to do with the bricks subsequent use. I was
told the hole variety had holes for the same purpose.
Does anybody know if this is true?

I'm not an expert bricklayer - quite the reverse, but laying frogless
bricks is far harder than ones with frogs as they tend to slip around more.


You're supposed to lay them frog up!

When I was shown how to lay bricks (in the early 1970's) all the brick-layers laid them frog down,
perhaps things have changed since I was a yound lad...

It uses less cement but you end up with an air space in each brick if the frog isn't filled (duh!).

I lived in a house once, and you could see the bricks change about 8' up. Below that the bricks were
laid frog up as they are supposed to be (you can tell by the smiley face on hand-made bricks), then I
presume the inspector came round and passed the building, and then all the bricks from there upwards
were laid frog down so the bricks had the smile upside down.
House is still standing - it was built in the late 70s - but I'm glad I don't live in it anymore

"Roger Mills" wrote in message ...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Had to rebuild a small part of a garden wall tother day, needed about
20 new bricks.

Found a pretty good colour match in Wickes, but instead of a frog the
bricks had three 2" holes in them.

The holes have multiple uses. They make the bricks lighter, and in some applications you can put rebar
down them to reinforce the wall.. When the bricks are laid in one of the running bonds the holes
roughly line up and you can put 6' rebar down the holes then cement it in.

Dave Gordon wrote:
":Jerry:" wrote in message
reenews.net...
wrote in message
oups.com...
On 16 Jul, 00:34, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
. wrote:

I was told some years ago by a worker in our local brickworks that the
frog was there to allow the heat during making to reach the centre of
the brick. It had nothing to do with the bricks subsequent use. I was
told the hole variety had holes for the same purpose.
Does anybody know if this is true?
I'm not an expert bricklayer - quite the reverse, but laying frogless
bricks is far harder than ones with frogs as they tend to slip around more.

You're supposed to lay them frog up!
When I was shown how to lay bricks (in the early 1970's) all the brick-layers laid them frog down,
perhaps things have changed since I was a yound lad...

It uses less cement but you end up with an air space in each brick if the frog isn't filled (duh!).


Arguably better insulation.

I lived in a house once, and you could see the bricks change about 8' up. Below that the bricks were

laid frog up as they are supposed to be (you can tell by the smiley face on hand-made bricks), then I
presume the inspector came round and passed the building, and then all the bricks from there upwards
were laid frog down so the bricks had the smile upside down.
House is still standing - it was built in the late 70s - but I'm glad I don't live in it anymore


IIRC you need to be careful with brickwork that is permananntly wet==
below DPC. Above that it doesn't matter.

Lots of bricks have no frog anyway.

In article ,
"Dave Gordon" d@p writes:
":Jerry:" wrote in message
reenews.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...

You're supposed to lay them frog up!

There's no "supposed to" about it. They can be laid either way.

When I was shown how to lay bricks (in the early 1970's) all the brick-layers laid them frog down,
perhaps things have changed since I was a yound lad...

It uses less cement but you end up with an air space in each brick if the frog isn't filled (duh!).

The mortar saving from frog-down is about 10%.
Some house builders require their brickies to lay frog down
for this reason. For a novice brick layer, frog-up is easier.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article , Andrew Gabriel
scribeth thus
In article ,
"Dave Gordon" d@p writes:
":Jerry:" wrote in message
reenews.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...

You're supposed to lay them frog up!

There's no "supposed to" about it. They can be laid either way.

When I was shown how to lay bricks (in the early 1970's) all the brick-layers
laid them frog down,
perhaps things have changed since I was a yound lad...

It uses less cement but you end up with an air space in each brick if the frog
isn't filled (duh!).

The mortar saving from frog-down is about 10%.
Some house builders require their brickies to lay frog down
for this reason. For a novice brick layer, frog-up is easier.


What.. is the purpose of the "frog" anyway?......
--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Andrew Gabriel
scribeth thus
In article ,
"Dave Gordon" d@p writes:
":Jerry:" wrote in message
reenews.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...

You're supposed to lay them frog up!

There's no "supposed to" about it. They can be laid either way.

When I was shown how to lay bricks (in the early 1970's) all the
brick-layers
laid them frog down,
perhaps things have changed since I was a yound lad...

It uses less cement but you end up with an air space in each brick if
the frog
isn't filled (duh!).

The mortar saving from frog-down is about 10%.
Some house builders require their brickies to lay frog down
for this reason. For a novice brick layer, frog-up is easier.


What.. is the purpose of the "frog" anyway?......
--
Tony Sayer

Allegedly to permit heat penetration to the interior of the lump of clay
during firing. The distance surface-to-middle-of-lump is more-or-less
consistent. A different approach is to pierce three cylinders (holes) into
the clay/]

--

Brian

Dave Gordon wrote:
"Roger Mills" wrote in message ...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Had to rebuild a small part of a garden wall tother day, needed about
20 new bricks.

Found a pretty good colour match in Wickes, but instead of a frog the
bricks had three 2" holes in them.

The holes have multiple uses. They make the bricks lighter, and in some applications you can put rebar
down them to reinforce the wall.. When the bricks are laid in one of the running bonds the holes
roughly line up and you can put 6' rebar down the holes then cement it in.


How do you think the practice of using frogs began?


NT