Just a quick one.
I have had a spam about an airconditioning unit which I wouldn't
normally read, but one claim interested me...

"1.3 kW input power spent you get 3.9 kW of heating / Cooling Output"

How can they make such claims?

Cheers
Pete
--
http://www.gymratz.co.uk
the Gym Equipment & Fitness equipment specialists

On 2007-06-15 18:46:57 +0100, "Pete @ www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
said:

Just a quick one.
I have had a spam about an airconditioning unit which I wouldn't
normally read, but one claim interested me...

"1.3 kW input power spent you get 3.9 kW of heating / Cooling Output"

How can they make such claims?

Cheers
Pete

One can always make claims.

Actually it's straightforward.

The natural inclination is to think you can't get more out than you put in.

If it was electrical energy in (A) to produce heat out directly (B)
then B will not be greater than A.
Actually it will pretty much equal A.

This isn't happening here.

The aircon is using energy in (A) to move heat from (B) (inside) to (C)
(outside).

To achieve that does not require (A) (B)


For the heating case, the heat is moved from outside to inside.

Andy Hall wrote:

For the heating case, the heat is moved from outside to inside.

Ah ha... I see. the electricity is being used purely to extract heat
from one side, shift it to the other then release it.

More efficient than generating the heat directly.

Is it possible for a aircon unit to remove moisture from the air while
pumping the heat back into the room?

Just that we have an upsidedown house with the bedrooms/bathroom
partially underground so virtually no way of getting any through
ventilation. and the steam from the shower doesn't vent very well from
the bathroom as the only window is at ground level and the extractor fan
struggles to remove moist air as the bathroom is 4m x 3m.

Being underground we have survived the last 2 winters without any form
of heating as temp never dropped below about 12 degrees.
Also never goes much above 16 degrees on the hottest days, but shower
humididty is a pain.

I wonder if there is such a thing as a wall mounted de-humidifier for
such situations.

Cheers
Pete
--
http://www.gymratz.co.uk
commercial gym equipment as supplied to London-Irish & Harleqins

Pete @ www.GymRatZ.co.uk presented the following explanation :
Andy Hall wrote:

For the heating case, the heat is moved from outside to inside.

Ah ha... I see. the electricity is being used purely to extract heat from one
side, shift it to the other then release it.

Yes, basically a heat pump.

Is it possible for a aircon unit to remove moisture from the air while
pumping the heat back into the room?

Not usually. To draw moisture out of the room, the need to blow the
room air across the chilled fins. Many a/c units have heat, cool and
dehumidfy settings. In cool and dehumidify they collect water in a drip
tray along the bottom, which then has to drain out by gravity or pumped
up and out using a small condensate pump.

Just that we have an upsidedown house with the bedrooms/bathroom partially
underground so virtually no way of getting any through ventilation. and the
steam from the shower doesn't vent very well from the bathroom as the only
window is at ground level and the extractor fan struggles to remove moist air
as the bathroom is 4m x 3m.


I wonder if there is such a thing as a wall mounted de-humidifier for such
situations.

There are plenty of small, free standing models about and they are very
effective - though I not looked for permanently wall mounted ones. Like
an a/c, they drip the collected moisture into a tray then into a
holding tank which needs to be emptied regularly. Some can be run to a
permanent drain with no need to empty them, providing gravity can be
used - otherwise I suppose a condensate pump would do the job.

Some of the older de-humidifiers had to be manually turned on and off -
much better is an automatic type, you set a knob on the front to the
humidity level you want and it runs has needed. Some optionally include
a small heater to provide heat and yet others can be set to just blow
air through a filter to help purify the air.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 15 Jun, 19:46, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Is it possible for a aircon unit to remove moisture from the air while
pumping the heat back into the room?

Not usually. To draw moisture out of the room, the need to blow the
room air across the chilled fins. Many a/c units have heat, cool and
dehumidfy settings. In cool and dehumidify they collect water in a drip
tray along the bottom, which then has to drain out by gravity or pumped
up and out using a small condensate pump.

Yeas, but..............
An air source heat pump would cool the outside air at the evaporator
and transfer the heat to the inside condensor coil.

A refrigerant dehumidifier would cool the air, causing much of the
moisture to condense, and then reheat the air with the condensor. The
only slight difference is that it will add the latent heat from the
moisture and the power consumption of the compressor motor to the room
air, so it has a very small heating effect.

You'd probably be better off with ventilator with a plate heat
exchanger in it, but if you can't get the air in and out, you're
stuffed.

On 15 Jun, 20:17, Aidan wrote:
On 15 Jun, 19:46, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Is it possible for a aircon unit to remove moisture from the air while
pumping the heat back into the room?

Not usually. To draw moisture out of the room, the need to blow the
room air across the chilled fins. Many a/c units have heat, cool and
dehumidfy settings. In cool and dehumidify they collect water in a drip
tray along the bottom, which then has to drain out by gravity or pumped
up and out using a small condensate pump.

Yeas, but..............
An air source heat pump would cool the outside air at the evaporator
and transfer the heat to the inside condensor coil.

A refrigerant dehumidifier would cool the air, causing much of the
moisture to condense, and then reheat the air with the condensor. The
only slight difference is that it will add the latent heat from the
moisture and the power consumption of the compressor motor to the room
air, so it has a very small heating effect.

You'd probably be better off with ventilator with a plate heat
exchanger in it, but if you can't get the air in and out, you're
stuffed.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....8071cb962e390e


NT

Pete @ www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

Ah ha... I see. the electricity is being used purely to extract heat
from one side, shift it to the other then release it.

More efficient than generating the heat directly.

Indeed. Obviously the motor in the aircon will produce heat directly,
and that too can be vented into the room in heating mode. So if it
consumes 1.3kW of electrical power the heating output will be 1.3kW +
hwatever it can pump (often two or more times that)

Is it possible for a aircon unit to remove moisture from the air while
pumping the heat back into the room?

Yes. Some units have dehumidify option.

I wonder if there is such a thing as a wall mounted de-humidifier for
such situations.

It tends to be the monoblock units that have the dehumidify option. Most
of the wall mounted ones I have seen are split units with an external
condenser.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:46:57 +0100, "Pete @ www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
wrote:

Just a quick one.
I have had a spam about an airconditioning unit which I wouldn't
normally read, but one claim interested me...

"1.3 kW input power spent you get 3.9 kW of heating / Cooling Output"

How can they make such claims?

Cheers
Pete

Illegally.

I also got some e-mails saying "extend your penis by 1 inch" - "make
love all night - satisfaction guaranteed" - "we guarantee to double
you money" ...................

The word "spam" in your OP could be a clue.

On 2007-06-16 05:36:06 +0100, pete said:

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:46:57 +0100, "Pete @ www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
wrote:

Just a quick one.
I have had a spam about an airconditioning unit which I wouldn't
normally read, but one claim interested me...

"1.3 kW input power spent you get 3.9 kW of heating / Cooling Output"

How can they make such claims?

Cheers
Pete

Illegally.

Don't think so.

The claim is actually reasonable and possible. If you take a look at
the specifications of products of major manufacturers such as
Mitsubishi, you will find that 3:1 is quite within range as the ratio
of power input to heat transferred.




I also got some e-mails saying "extend your penis by 1 inch"

You may want to check that out. 100% increase could be worth trying for.



- "make
love all night - satisfaction guaranteed" - "we guarantee to double
you money" ...................

The word "spam" in your OP could be a clue.

Often it would be, but in this case the claim is reasonable. Whether
or not it is worth looking at what is being sold is a different
discussion.