Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of our
family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure whether to
go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.

As it happens, the house was extended before we purchased it and the main
sewage outlet pipe from the upstairs toilets runs down the corner of the
same room where the toilet needs to be. It's all boxed off at the moment but
I'm wondering if we could plumb the new toilet into that outlet

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

thanks

Pete

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:21:38 GMT, "LongJohn" mused:

Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of our
family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure whether to
go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.

As it happens, the house was extended before we purchased it and the main
sewage outlet pipe from the upstairs toilets runs down the corner of the
same room where the toilet needs to be. It's all boxed off at the moment but
I'm wondering if we could plumb the new toilet into that outlet

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

Forget the Saniflo, especially if the proper route is as easy as you
say.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On 10 Jun, 18:38, Lurch wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:21:38 GMT, "LongJohn" mused:

Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of our
family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure whether to
go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.

As it happens, the house was extended before we purchased it and the main
sewage outlet pipe from the upstairs toilets runs down the corner of the
same room where the toilet needs to be. It's all boxed off at the moment but
I'm wondering if we could plumb the new toilet into that outlet

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

Forget the Saniflo, especially if the proper route is as easy as you
say.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Saniflo
says it all


NT

"JohnW" wrote in message
. ..
LongJohn, in article CqWai.31103$hj5.27255
@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk, says...
Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of
our
family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure whether
to
go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.

Not a Saniflow, unless you like fixing them... Go
conventional if at all possible, since they at least work when
the power fails.

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

I've no current prices but check for local authority grants to
modify a house for an elderly person's use, assuming they are
living there. At least it should be VAT free and you can get
your council tax down a band if you meet the requirements for
"necessary modifications".

Worked for me - twice...

--
JohnW.
Replace the obvious with co.uk in 2 places to mail me.


Thanks John, I'll contact the council

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:21:38 GMT, "LongJohn" mused:

Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of
our
family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure whether
to
go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.

As it happens, the house was extended before we purchased it and the main
sewage outlet pipe from the upstairs toilets runs down the corner of the
same room where the toilet needs to be. It's all boxed off at the moment
but
I'm wondering if we could plumb the new toilet into that outlet

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

Forget the Saniflo, especially if the proper route is as easy as you
say.
--
Regards,
Stuart.


OK. Will someone be able to hack into the existing pipework then?

"JohnW" wrote in message
. ..
LongJohn, in article CqWai.31103$hj5.27255
@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk, says...
Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of
our
family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure whether
to
go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.

Not a Saniflow, unless you like fixing them... Go
conventional if at all possible, since they at least work when
the power fails.

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

I've no current prices but check for local authority grants to
modify a house for an elderly person's use, assuming they are
living there. At least it should be VAT free and you can get
your council tax down a band if you meet the requirements for
"necessary modifications".



The person it's for is living here and 86 and leaking badly. Would wel be
eligable for a grant? I suppose it depends on the council.

How would I get it VAT free, via a council rebate?


Worked for me - twice...

--
JohnW.
Replace the obvious with co.uk in 2 places to mail me.

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:04:25 GMT, "LongJohn" wrote:


"JohnW" wrote in message
...
LongJohn, in article CqWai.31103$hj5.27255
@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk, says...
Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of
our
family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure whether
to
go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.

Not a Saniflow, unless you like fixing them... Go
conventional if at all possible, since they at least work when
the power fails.

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

I've no current prices but check for local authority grants to
modify a house for an elderly person's use, assuming they are
living there. At least it should be VAT free and you can get
your council tax down a band if you meet the requirements for
"necessary modifications".



The person it's for is living here and 86 and leaking badly. Would wel be
eligable for a grant? I suppose it depends on the council.

How would I get it VAT free, via a council rebate?



http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP... ype=document

Prob worth asking at the council.

Do you have anyone involved from social services at the council? They
have people who can advise on what you might be entitled to claim for
this sort of thing.
An elderley person I know was helped to get the right adaptations
installed from proper companies - not sure if they had to pay or not
but the work was well done and organised quickly.


Worked for me - twice...

--
JohnW.
Replace the obvious with co.uk in 2 places to mail me.


--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
Or get it delivered for free

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:01:22 GMT, "LongJohn" mused:


"Lurch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:21:38 GMT, "LongJohn" mused:

Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of
our
family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure whether
to
go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.

As it happens, the house was extended before we purchased it and the main
sewage outlet pipe from the upstairs toilets runs down the corner of the
same room where the toilet needs to be. It's all boxed off at the moment
but
I'm wondering if we could plumb the new toilet into that outlet

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

Forget the Saniflo, especially if the proper route is as easy as you
say.
--
Regards,
Stuart.


OK. Will someone be able to hack into the existing pipework then?

I would have thought so. If there is an accessible stack nearby then
it shoudl be possible. If you are getting someone in to do the job
then I'd get some quotes in, it's a lot easier to say a defnite yes or
no when you're stood on site looking at the job than trying to
visualise it from someones description on a newsgroup.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On 2007-06-10 22:19:58 +0100, Mogga said:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:04:25 GMT, "LongJohn" wrote:


"JohnW" wrote in message
. ..
LongJohn, in article CqWai.31103$hj5.27255
@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk, says...
Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of
our
family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure whether
to
go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.

Not a Saniflow, unless you like fixing them... Go
conventional if at all possible, since they at least work when
the power fails.

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

I've no current prices but check for local authority grants to
modify a house for an elderly person's use, assuming they are
living there. At least it should be VAT free and you can get
your council tax down a band if you meet the requirements for
"necessary modifications".



The person it's for is living here and 86 and leaking badly. Would wel be
eligable for a grant? I suppose it depends on the council.

How would I get it VAT free, via a council rebate?



http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP... ype=document

Prob

worth asking at the council.

Do you have anyone involved from social services at the council? They
have people who can advise on what you might be entitled to claim for
this sort of thing.
An elderley person I know was helped to get the right adaptations
installed from proper companies - not sure if they had to pay or not
but the work was well done and organised quickly.


My parents have had a variety of house adaptations implemented - stair
lift, grab rails in various places, pneumatic gizmo for raising people
out of the bath and so on. These were predominantly organised and
paid for entirely or partly by the local authority social services
department. Policies probably vary from area to area, but anything
involving access to or use of a toilet gets a very high priority.

On 2007-06-10 22:35:28 +0100, Owain said:

LongJohn wrote:
I've no current prices but check for local authority grants to
modify a house for an elderly person's use, assuming they are
living there. At least it should be VAT free and you can get
your council tax down a band if you meet the requirements for
"necessary modifications".
The person it's for is living here and 86 and leaking badly. Would wel
be eligable for a grant? I suppose it depends on the council.
How would I get it VAT free, via a council rebate?

The supplier simply invoices it as "Vat Free for disabled person" if
you give them an eligibility declaration. There are strict conditions
attached to the scheme; see

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel= pageVAT_FAQs&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HM CE_PROD_007380

or

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...CE_PROD_007380

or

search hmrc.gov.uk for Vat notice Notice 701/7 VAT reliefs for disabled people

Owain

Contacting the local VAT office is helpful, although the rules are
clear anyway.

There are some practicalities though.

If a non VAT registered contractor is chosen, he won't be charging VAT
on his work anyway. OTOH, he would typically be buying materials from
merchants and would be charged VAT. Realistically, that would be
passed on to the customer because said merchant is probably not geared
up to handle VAT exemption stuff - don't know the procedures therefore
hassle.

It may be worth asking the local authority or perhaps some care homes
for details of contractors who do work for them. These will probably
be of a size to be VAT registered and will certainly know how to
process the paperwork correctly.

LongJohn wrote:
Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of our
family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure whether to
go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.
Nobody needs a saniflo.


As it happens, the house was extended before we purchased it and the main
sewage outlet pipe from the upstairs toilets runs down the corner of the
same room where the toilet needs to be. It's all boxed off at the moment but
I'm wondering if we could plumb the new toilet into that outlet


Yes.

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

300-400 or a half a million for the saniflo.

thanks

Pete

"Owain" wrote in message
...
LongJohn wrote:
We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of
our family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure
whether to go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.
As it happens, the house was extended before we purchased it and the main
sewage outlet pipe from the upstairs toilets runs down the corner of the
same room where the toilet needs to be. It's all boxed off at the moment
but I'm wondering if we could plumb the new toilet into that outlet

Almost certainly

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

To comply with building regs you may need an extractor fan and a
washbasin. A small electric (3kW) handwash can save running hot water to
the location. Not sure if the work is notifiable.

Owain



Thanks everyone

"JohnW" wrote in message
.. .
LongJohn, in article tHZai.129300$4a.53299
@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk, says...

The person it's for is living here and 86 and leaking badly. Would we be
eligable for a grant? I suppose it depends on the council.

How would I get it VAT free, via a council rebate?

Others have given pointers to the regulations. Social
services are the first point of call for grants and benefits.
They will automatically get involved after a hospital stay -
providing the hospital don't forget to request it (some advice
- play dumb. Don't be too keen to DIY. Keep asking for advice
and help...) Don't forget, though, that budgets may impact
decisions so apply early and keep re-applying, especially if
things change.

Also try your doctor/practice nurse who may have links into
local help providers, including respite organisations and
charities - you need help too.

As an example, I ordered several aids, like hand rails and
access aids, only to have them provided and installed free,
after a home assessment. We also got things like a Zimmer,
toilet height adjusters, medical/incontinence aids, special
bedding and the like.

We funded a downstairs bedroom conversion with shower, washing
facilities and new toilet suite all VAT free on signing a
simple declaration form. Likewise with mobility aids, where
the forms were suppled by the web vendors.

I applied to the council for CT rebates and, after another
form asking about the modifications and, I think, a doctors
counter-signature, got twice reassessed down a band over
several years in both England and Scotland. This step wasn't
widely published - I think I got the information off the web
somewhere.

It's always worth asking first - We found Social services very
forthcoming with the information - and were ready to fill-in
their own forms for benefits :-) I remember one getting
knocked back but the Social worker appealed it and we got
it...
--
JohnW.
Replace the obvious with co.uk in 2 places to mail me.


Thanks everyone

Is it possible to get the work done and then put in a claim? We are
concerned at how long the whole process may take.

thanks


Is it

On 2007-06-11 18:27:13 +0100, "LongJohn" said:


Thanks everyone

Is it possible to get the work done and then put in a claim? We are
concerned at how long the whole process may take.

thanks


Is it

I would call them and ask and at least stick in the application rather
than making the move and then expecting them to stump up the money.

Make it clear to them that the requirement is urgent and see what the
reaction is. Then if they are not responsive, you can take a decision
to do your own thing.

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

Is it possible to get the work done and then put in a claim? We are
concerned at how long the whole process may take.

thanks


Is it

I would call them and ask and at least stick in the application rather
than making the move and then expecting them to stump up the money.

Make it clear to them that the requirement is urgent and see what the
reaction is. Then if they are not responsive, you can take a decision
to do your own thing.

I don't know about this particular instance but I have been led to
believe in the past that you always needed to get a grant application
approved before commencing work even if the purse holders won't cough up
until the work is finished.

--
Roger Chapman

On 2007-06-11 21:28:13 +0100, Roger said:

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

Is it possible to get the work done and then put in a claim? We are
concerned at how long the whole process may take.

thanks


Is it

I would call them and ask and at least stick in the application rather
than making the move and then expecting them to stump up the money.

Make it clear to them that the requirement is urgent and see what the
reaction is. Then if they are not responsive, you can take a decision
to do your own thing.

I don't know about this particular instance but I have been led to
believe in the past that you always needed to get a grant application
approved before commencing work even if the purse holders won't cough up
until the work is finished.

That could well be true. My point was that there may be a better
chance by at least entering an application before doing and stressing
the urgency. Doing before saying anything is less likely to produce
the desired outcome.

Having said that, this is the classic distress purchase, and probably
there isn't an option to hang around waiting for bureaucracy.
Therefore the situation is really about possibly getting something and
probably getting nothing.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-06-11 21:28:13 +0100, Roger said:

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

Is it possible to get the work done and then put in a claim? We are
concerned at how long the whole process may take.

thanks


Is it

I would call them and ask and at least stick in the application rather
than making the move and then expecting them to stump up the money.

Make it clear to them that the requirement is urgent and see what the
reaction is. Then if they are not responsive, you can take a decision
to do your own thing.

I don't know about this particular instance but I have been led to
believe in the past that you always needed to get a grant application
approved before commencing work even if the purse holders won't cough up
until the work is finished.

That could well be true. My point was that there may be a better chance
by at least entering an application before doing and stressing the
urgency. Doing before saying anything is less likely to produce the
desired outcome.

Having said that, this is the classic distress purchase, and probably
there isn't an option to hang around waiting for bureaucracy. Therefore
the situation is really about possibly getting something and probably
getting nothing.



thanks everyone, you have been a great help

"LongJohn" wrote in message
. uk...
Hi

We need a toilet fitting into a downstairs room for an elderly member of
our family. Nothing special, just a basic toilet but we are not sure
whether to go for a saniflow or a normal toilet.

As it happens, the house was extended before we purchased it and the main
sewage outlet pipe from the upstairs toilets runs down the corner of the
same room where the toilet needs to be. It's all boxed off at the moment
but I'm wondering if we could plumb the new toilet into that outlet

Also, would someone give me an idea of the sort of price we can expect to
pay for a sniflow or a conventional toilet to be supplied, fitted and
connected to this existing waste pipe?

thanks

Pete




thanks for all the help



I spoke tried the council. It took several hours to get past the answer
phone / automated message system defences. I then got passed around quite a
bit. In the end the person I spoke to didn't seem to be very knowledgeable
but said grants were not available and they didn't know about VAT - no use
at all.



Age concern didn't know about VAT but they did give me the number for the
local Home Improvement Agency which they say arrange grants for disabled
facilities but they said it takes a long time and can't usually be claimed
retrospectively.



Seems to be proving very difficult to get any help with this. Nothing new
there I suppose; governments announce these fantastic aid packages for
budget headlines then make it deliberately difficult to get. Expect we'll
just have to pay the full amount.

"JohnW" wrote in message
. ..
LongJohn, in article LXQbi.1563$aS5.1172
@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk, says...

I spoke tried the council. It took several hours to get past the answer
phone / automated message system defences. I then got passed around quite
a
bit. In the end the person I spoke to didn't seem to be very knowledgeable
but said grants were not available and they didn't know about VAT - no use
at all.

Did you go direct to Social Services department? I suspect
you used the wrong words :-) Try "Disabled facilities grant" -
see the web-page below.

Age concern didn't know about VAT but they did give me the number for the
local Home Improvement Agency which they say arrange grants for disabled
facilities but they said it takes a long time and can't usually be claimed
retrospectively.

Try the Help the Aged site: http://tinyurl.com/26pse7 . If you
are in Scotland, then it is handled by Age Concern and they
know about it. From looking at the Age Concern websites, I
notice that England seems to allow less then Scotland - my
last modification was in Scotland...

Seems to be proving very difficult to get any help with this. Nothing new
there I suppose; governments announce these fantastic aid packages for
budget headlines then make it deliberately difficult to get. Expect we'll
just have to pay the full amount.

The VAT issue is dealt with by giving the supplier a
declaration such as:

I (full name) ......
Of(address)......

Declare that:
I have a disabling condition by reason of ... (give full and
specific description of the condition)

I attach a certificate from my doctor/physiotherapist/nurse.

The ..... is for personal needs and use or for use by a member
of my immediate family or person who provides care for me.

I claim zero rating relief from value added tax. (Here you can
quote the rel event HMCE rule, which I leave you to look up)

Signature
Date

(or a similar third-party version if necessary)

Keep a copy and give one to the supplier.

You may have to use a non-DIY installation, though, since the
installation company may be more able to reclaim the VAT on
supplies as part of their finances (and enjoy doing it...)
than a standard builder's merchant. Some even have their own
forms... For my last job I used a bathroom fitter since
looking after someone reduced the time available for DIY and
they had no problem with the VAT issue. You could try asking
at a builder's merchant, etc. but the counter staff may not be
clued up if they don't normally deal with end-users.
--
JohnW.
Replace the obvious with co.uk in 2 places to mail me.


I do believe I phoned the correct department at the council but my call was
re-routed a number of times so not quite sure where I ended up.

Thank you John. You have been a great help.