I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core mains
flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000 Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

When I make my 3 joints I slightly offset each one so that it is not
beside another one. This helps make a slimmer overall joint but it
makes for a longer joint (about 2.5 to 3 inches) and with insulating
tape it is still too bulky.

(A) Is it safe to use heat shrink insulating tubing for each join
and have each join beside the other? Then I might use a single layer
of insulating tape to bind over and protect the 3 joins.

(B) Or is there some widget which can help with this? Perhaps a
small moulding which is made up of three very small metal tubes held
by moulded plastic to be close together but not touching. I could
put a wire into each end of a metal tube and then solder the wires
into it. (It's just an idea.)

Any info?

--



[max4: uk.diy alt.e.e. sci.e.e. sci.e.c.]

"Coleman" wrote in message
...
I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core mains
flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000 Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

When I make my 3 joints I slightly offset each one so that it is not
beside another one. This helps make a slimmer overall joint but it
makes for a longer joint (about 2.5 to 3 inches) and with insulating
tape it is still too bulky.

(A) Is it safe to use heat shrink insulating tubing for each join
and have each join beside the other? Then I might use a single layer
of insulating tape to bind over and protect the 3 joins.

(B) Or is there some widget which can help with this? Perhaps a
small moulding which is made up of three very small metal tubes held
by moulded plastic to be close together but not touching. I could
put a wire into each end of a metal tube and then solder the wires
into it. (It's just an idea.)

Any info?

--
Personally I would never extend an appliance lead in the way you describe

Nor would I pull leads around corners.

I would either replace the lead on the appliance with one long enough for my
purpose or use an extension lead fully unwound the get near to the point of
use and plug the appliance into the lead.

Where the lead on the appliance is very short say a couple of metres I use
an extension lead with a rubber socket on one end and an RCD plug on the
other

For the load you describe I would use a 2.5 t&e cable fully unwound

Tony


[max4: uk.diy alt.e.e. sci.e.e. sci.e.c.]

Coleman wrote:
I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core mains
flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000 Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

When I make my 3 joints I slightly offset each one so that it is not
beside another one. This helps make a slimmer overall joint but it
makes for a longer joint (about 2.5 to 3 inches) and with insulating
tape it is still too bulky.

(A) Is it safe to use heat shrink insulating tubing for each join
and have each join beside the other? Then I might use a single layer
of insulating tape to bind over and protect the 3 joins.

(B) Or is there some widget which can help with this? Perhaps a
small moulding which is made up of three very small metal tubes held
by moulded plastic to be close together but not touching. I could
put a wire into each end of a metal tube and then solder the wires
into it. (It's just an idea.)

Any info?


I don't know of any safe way of making an inline cable joint that will
allow the joined cable to be wound neatly on a small diameter drum. As
well as providing electrical insulation, the material has to provide
strain relief, abrasion resistance, water tighness and a load more.

The nearest thing is probably crimped sleeves used to make offset joints
to the wires, with heatshrink tubing insulating individual cores from
each other and an adhesive-lined heat-shrink extra-thick outer tube
overall. The outer tubing extending far enough along the cables for the
adhesive to give strain relief. But that will be much less flexible
that the typical continuous cable and the strain relief will be much
inferior to that provided by continous cable - particularly if the cable
is subject to self, or extrnal, heating. It may be ok for some fixed
wiring but certainly is not for cable being wound on a small diameter drum.

If the cables to be joined have clean and uncontaminated rubber outers,
self-vulcanising tape can be used in place of, or under, the
adhesive-lined outer tube. That will be able to take higher temperatures
and still maintain some form of strain relief. But is still far inferior
to that required for safety.

The only safe solution is to replace the whole of the two cables with a
single one.

--
Sue

In article ,
Coleman wrote:
I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core mains
flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000 Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

Why not just replace the flex with one of the length you want?

--
*Cover me. I'm changing lanes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Coleman wrote:

I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core mains
flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000 Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

When I make my 3 joints I slightly offset each one so that it is not
beside another one. This helps make a slimmer overall joint but it
makes for a longer joint (about 2.5 to 3 inches) and with insulating
tape it is still too bulky.

(A) Is it safe to use heat shrink insulating tubing for each join
and have each join beside the other? Then I might use a single layer
of insulating tape to bind over and protect the 3 joins.

(B) Or is there some widget which can help with this? Perhaps a
small moulding which is made up of three very small metal tubes held
by moulded plastic to be close together but not touching. I could
put a wire into each end of a metal tube and then solder the wires
into it. (It's just an idea.)

Any info?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ed_Flex_Joints

NT

wrote in message
oups.com...
Coleman wrote:

I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core mains
flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000 Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

When I make my 3 joints I slightly offset each one so that it is not
beside another one. This helps make a slimmer overall joint but it
makes for a longer joint (about 2.5 to 3 inches) and with insulating
tape it is still too bulky.

(A) Is it safe to use heat shrink insulating tubing for each join
and have each join beside the other? Then I might use a single layer
of insulating tape to bind over and protect the 3 joins.

(B) Or is there some widget which can help with this? Perhaps a
small moulding which is made up of three very small metal tubes held
by moulded plastic to be close together but not touching. I could
put a wire into each end of a metal tube and then solder the wires
into it. (It's just an idea.)

Any info?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ed_Flex_Joints



But that is about twisted flex joints (the key is in the name ) ) rather
than soldered joints, which is what the OP was talking about. Hardly ideal
but still not twisted flex joints and therefore not subject to the dangers
described in the article.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 09:00:59 +0100, Coleman mused:

I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core mains
flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000 Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

When I make my 3 joints I slightly offset each one so that it is not
beside another one. This helps make a slimmer overall joint but it
makes for a longer joint (about 2.5 to 3 inches) and with insulating
tape it is still too bulky.

(A) Is it safe to use heat shrink insulating tubing for each join
and have each join beside the other? Then I might use a single layer
of insulating tape to bind over and protect the 3 joins.

(B) Or is there some widget which can help with this? Perhaps a
small moulding which is made up of three very small metal tubes held
by moulded plastic to be close together but not touching. I could
put a wire into each end of a metal tube and then solder the wires
into it. (It's just an idea.)

Any info?

New flex with no joins.

I'd only entertain the idea of joining a mains flex if it were with a
plug and socket arrangement or soldered\crimped if it were on a piece
of equipment that wasn't dragged round corners on regular intervals.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Bob Mannix wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Coleman wrote:


I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core mains
flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000 Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

When I make my 3 joints I slightly offset each one so that it is not
beside another one. This helps make a slimmer overall joint but it
makes for a longer joint (about 2.5 to 3 inches) and with insulating
tape it is still too bulky.

(A) Is it safe to use heat shrink insulating tubing for each join
and have each join beside the other? Then I might use a single layer
of insulating tape to bind over and protect the 3 joins.

(B) Or is there some widget which can help with this? Perhaps a
small moulding which is made up of three very small metal tubes held
by moulded plastic to be close together but not touching. I could
put a wire into each end of a metal tube and then solder the wires
into it. (It's just an idea.)

Any info?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ed_Flex_Joints




But that is about twisted flex joints (the key is in the name ) ) rather
than soldered joints, which is what the OP was talking about. Hardly ideal
but still not twisted flex joints and therefore not subject to the dangers
described in the article.


I would suggest that soldered joints covered with normal heat shrink and
insulating tape, "lack tensile strength, abrasion resistance, general
robustness, spillproofness (they can make a small spill live), good
insulation, petproofness & small childproofness."

The marginal advantage of soldering the joints has to be balanced
against the greater risk of failing during flexing, as the soldered
joint will form a flexure discontinuity and stress points.

Of course, soldering with acid flux would be an even greater problem.

--
Sue

"Coleman" wrote in message
...

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

Then you are dangerous beyond belief. You cannot do this - it violates UK
regulations.

You must add a socket and a plug to connect the two cables.

Any other joining method will result in potential loss of fire insurance and
possible prosecution.

Buy a longer cable or use a plug and socket.

Why do you need such a long cable?

On 1 Jun, 12:13, Palindrome wrote:
Bob Mannix wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...

Coleman wrote:

I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core mains
flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000 Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

When I make my 3 joints I slightly offset each one so that it is not
beside another one. This helps make a slimmer overall joint but it
makes for a longer joint (about 2.5 to 3 inches) and with insulating
tape it is still too bulky.

(A) Is it safe to use heat shrink insulating tubing for each join
and have each join beside the other? Then I might use a single layer
of insulating tape to bind over and protect the 3 joins.

(B) Or is there some widget which can help with this? Perhaps a
small moulding which is made up of three very small metal tubes held
by moulded plastic to be close together but not touching. I could
put a wire into each end of a metal tube and then solder the wires
into it. (It's just an idea.)

Any info?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ed_Flex_Joints

But that is about twisted flex joints (the key is in the name ) ) rather
than soldered joints, which is what the OP was talking about. Hardly ideal
but still not twisted flex joints and therefore not subject to the dangers
described in the article.

I would suggest that soldered joints covered with normal heat shrink and
insulating tape, "lack tensile strength, abrasion resistance, general
robustness, spillproofness (they can make a small spill live), good
insulation, petproofness & small childproofness."

The marginal advantage of soldering the joints has to be balanced
against the greater risk of failing during flexing, as the soldered
joint will form a flexure discontinuity and stress points.

Of course, soldering with acid flux would be an even greater problem.

--
Sue

I also thought it was pretty obvious what also applied to soldered
joints. Solder is weak stuff too, though I've not seen any significant
failures from soldering pretwisted flex (at LV). But not everyone
twists enough before soldering.


NT

Homer J Simpson wrote:
"Coleman" wrote in message
...


I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join is
too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.


Then you are dangerous beyond belief. You cannot do this - it violates UK
regulations.

You must add a socket and a plug to connect the two cables.

Any other joining method will result in potential loss of fire insurance and
possible prosecution.

You can buy Permanent Mains Flex Connectors that don't involve plugs and
sockets, eg http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/VJ81C_VJ82D.jpg

"Waterproof" versions are also available, for outdoor use.

--
Sue

"Palindrome" wrote in message
...

You can buy Permanent Mains Flex Connectors that don't involve plugs and
sockets, eg http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/VJ81C_VJ82D.jpg

"Waterproof" versions are also available, for outdoor use.

These are frowned on in many jurisdictions, however if they are approved in
the UK then they can be used there.


--
..

--
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

--

On 2 Jun, 02:02, "Homer J Simpson" wrote:
"Palindrome" wrote in message
...

You can buy Permanent Mains Flex Connectors that don't involve plugs and
sockets, eg http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/VJ81C_VJ82D.jpg

"Waterproof" versions are also available, for outdoor use.

These are frowned on in many jurisdictions, however if they are approved in
the UK then they can be used there.

Whats the problem with them? Ours all have cord grips.


NT

wrote:
On 2 Jun, 02:02, "Homer J Simpson" wrote:

"Palindrome" wrote in message

...


You can buy Permanent Mains Flex Connectors that don't involve plugs and
sockets, eg http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/VJ81C_VJ82D.jpg

"Waterproof" versions are also available, for outdoor use.


These are frowned on in many jurisdictions, however if they are approved in
the UK then they can be used there.


Whats the problem with them? Ours all have cord grips.


In the UK portable equipment has to be provided with a fitted plug - in
recognition of the fact that many people were incapable of correctly
fitting (and fusing) one themselves.

So, what are the chances that one of those will correctly choose and
wire one of the above? Or use a non-rugged one outdoors, drag it around
corners, let it fall into a bucket of water, etc?

Many (most?) do not have anything to limit the bending radius of the
cables at the point of entry close to the fixed cord grip. So strands of
the cores break, leading to the risk of fire, failure, etc.

Few are vapour-tight or even water-tight. As the are often dragged
around through damp grass, left in the shed, etc - there is a real risk
of corrosion..

Bear in mind that a typical application is to "repair" an electric
garden tool - where the user has cut the cable...


Replacing the two cables with a single, contiguous, one is by far the
best solution.

--
Sue

In article ,
Palindrome wrote:
Whats the problem with them? Ours all have cord grips.


In the UK portable equipment has to be provided with a fitted plug - in
recognition of the fact that many people were incapable of correctly
fitting (and fusing) one themselves.

Or in recognition of the fact that everywhere else in the world gets a
fitted plug.

So, what are the chances that one of those will correctly choose and
wire one of the above? Or use a non-rugged one outdoors, drag it around
corners, let it fall into a bucket of water, etc?

So?

Many (most?) do not have anything to limit the bending radius of the
cables at the point of entry close to the fixed cord grip. So strands of
the cores break, leading to the risk of fire, failure, etc.

The ones I've seen have cable grip and strain relief at each end similar
to that found on plugs

Few are vapour-tight or even water-tight. As the are often dragged
around through damp grass, left in the shed, etc - there is a real risk
of corrosion..

I'd suggest that most things likely to be used in the garden will use the
garden tool type of plugs since a ready made extension can be bought for
less than the cost of extending the lead.

Bear in mind that a typical application is to "repair" an electric
garden tool - where the user has cut the cable...

Maybe. But most garden tools have a plug/socket arrangement at the
appliance to make lead changing easy.


Replacing the two cables with a single, contiguous, one is by far the
best solution.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

Maybe. But most garden tools have a plug/socket arrangement at the
appliance to make lead changing easy.

That's a safety break, for many reasons.
If you drop something like a hedge trimmer, it won't be left
dangling around your nuts on the cord looped over your
shoulder.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Maybe. But most garden tools have a plug/socket arrangement at the
appliance to make lead changing easy.

That's a safety break, for many reasons.
If you drop something like a hedge trimmer, it won't be left
dangling around your nuts on the cord looped over your
shoulder.

Indeed. Also makes storing the tool easier - or adding an extension. And
those extensions with the appliance plug/socket on them often can be
bought for less than the cost of the cable from the same store.

--
*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01 Jun 2007, Homer J Simpson wrote:


"Coleman" wrote in message
...

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished join
is too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a corner.

If the flex goes round a indoor doorpost and I pull the flex then I
am not putting much strain on it at all.


Then you are dangerous beyond belief. You cannot do this - it
violates UK regulations.

You must add a socket and a plug to connect the two cables.


I will have to live in sin then! :-)


Any other joining method will result in potential loss of fire
insurance and possible prosecution.


Buy a longer cable or use a plug and socket.

Why do you need such a long cable?


The cable on my fan heater is about 4 to 5 foot and is too short to
be used whre I want it to be.

I want it to extend it to about 10 foot.

On 02 Jun 2007, Palindrome wrote:

wrote:
On 2 Jun, 02:02, "Homer J Simpson" wrote:

"Palindrome" wrote in message

...


You can buy Permanent Mains Flex Connectors that don't involve
plugs and sockets, eg
http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/VJ81C_VJ82D.jpg

"Waterproof" versions are also available, for outdoor use.


These are frowned on in many jurisdictions, however if they are
approved in the UK then they can be used there.


Whats the problem with them? Ours all have cord grips.


In the UK portable equipment has to be provided with a fitted plug
- in recognition of the fact that many people were incapable of
correctly fitting (and fusing) one themselves.

So, what are the chances that one of those will correctly choose
and wire one of the above? Or use a non-rugged one outdoors, drag
it around corners, let it fall into a bucket of water, etc?

Many (most?) do not have anything to limit the bending radius of
the cables at the point of entry close to the fixed cord grip. So
strands of the cores break, leading to the risk of fire, failure,
etc.

Few are vapour-tight or even water-tight. As the are often dragged
around through damp grass, left in the shed, etc - there is a real
risk of corrosion..

Bear in mind that a typical application is to "repair" an electric
garden tool - where the user has cut the cable...


Replacing the two cables with a single, contiguous, one is by far
the best solution.


It is the best but sometimes it is too long a job to open up the
appliance and to attach the new flex cores because of the way user-
unfriendly way in which the appliance has been designed.

On 01 Jun 2007, wrote:

On 1 Jun, 12:13, Palindrome wrote:
Bob Mannix wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...

Coleman wrote:

I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core
mains flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000
Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished
join is too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a
corner.

When I make my 3 joints I slightly offset each one so that it
is not beside another one. This helps make a slimmer overall
joint but it makes for a longer joint (about 2.5 to 3 inches)
and with insulating tape it is still too bulky.

(A) Is it safe to use heat shrink insulating tubing for each
join and have each join beside the other? Then I might use a
single layer of insulating tape to bind over and protect the 3
joins.

(B) Or is there some widget which can help with this? Perhaps
a small moulding which is made up of three very small metal
tubes held by moulded plastic to be close together but not
touching. I could put a wire into each end of a metal tube and
then solder the wires into it. (It's just an idea.)

Any info?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ed_Flex_Joints

But that is about twisted flex joints (the key is in the name
) ) rather than soldered joints, which is what the OP was
talking about. Hardly ideal but still not twisted flex joints
and therefore not subject to the dangers described in the
article.

I would suggest that soldered joints covered with normal heat
shrink and insulating tape, "lack tensile strength, abrasion
resistance, general robustness, spillproofness (they can make a
small spill live), good insulation, petproofness & small
childproofness."

The marginal advantage of soldering the joints has to be balanced
against the greater risk of failing during flexing, as the
soldered joint will form a flexure discontinuity and stress
points.

Of course, soldering with acid flux would be an even greater
problem.

--
Sue

I also thought it was pretty obvious what also applied to soldered
joints. Solder is weak stuff too, though I've not seen any
significant failures from soldering pretwisted flex (at LV). But
not everyone twists enough before soldering.



ISTR there was a time when the different twists had their own names.
Maybe they still do.

Wasn't something like "Western Roll" one such name???

"Coleman" wrote in message
...

Why do you need such a long cable?

The cable on my fan heater is about 4 to 5 foot and is too short to
be used whre I want it to be.

I want it to extend it to about 10 foot.

Then a regular extension cord will work fine.


--
..

--
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

--

Huge wrote:
On 2007-06-01, Palindrome wrote:


I would suggest that soldered joints covered with normal heat shrink and
insulating tape, "lack tensile strength, abrasion resistance, general
robustness, spillproofness (they can make a small spill live), good
insulation, petproofness & small childproofness."


Methinks you worry overmuch. I've been doing this for years, although
it's solder, adhesive heatshrink (don't forget to put it on *before*
soldering the joint), more adhesive heatshrink over the whole thing
then insulating tape. OK, it isn't that bendy or pretty, but it'll
go on a drum and I've never, ever, had a joint fail, and there's one in
the lead for my big mains drill.



I did write "normal" - which you too seem to think is inadequate, as you
use adhesive heatshrink.

Whether it will go on the drum neatly depends on the size of the cable
and the drum.

I've used similar techniques to the one you mention where cable
replacement was impractical, eg re-joining the command and power cable
of a tethered submersible. That has been good enough to survive a few
weeks of fairly deep salt water immersion, etc. But the repair only ever
lasted a few weeks, no matter how carefully it was done. The cable alarm
would inevitably sound and the fault was inevitably at the join.. So no
way was it as good as the original cable, unjoined.

--
Sue

In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2007-06-02, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

Maybe. But most garden tools have a plug/socket arrangement at the
appliance to make lead changing easy.

That's a safety break, for many reasons.
If you drop something like a hedge trimmer, it won't be left
dangling around your nuts on the cord looped over your
shoulder.

My recently purchased Bosch trimmer, although it had the inconvenient
"needs 2 hands" feature (the reason God created gaffer tape) did not
have a plug/socket, making it inconvenient to store. I fitted one.

I don't know if the safety break was a regulatory requirement,
although it was pretty universal. Does your Bosch have active
breaking (stops dead when you release the handle)? I guess that
would do the same thing, although the active breaking on two
lawnmowers I have both stopped working after a couple of years,
and now the blades just spin down under their own momentum when
the trigger is released.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 03 Jun 2007, Homer J Simpson wrote:


"Coleman" wrote in message
...

Why do you need such a long cable?

The cable on my fan heater is about 4 to 5 foot and is too short to
be used whre I want it to be.

I want it to extend it to about 10 foot.

Then a regular extension cord will work fine.



Yes it will but it s clumsy and inconvenient to get out each time!

On 02 Jun 2007, Huge wrote:

On 2007-06-01, Palindrome wrote:

I would suggest that soldered joints covered with normal heat
shrink and insulating tape, "lack tensile strength, abrasion
resistance, general robustness, spillproofness (they can make a
small spill live), good insulation, petproofness & small
childproofness."

Methinks you worry overmuch. I've been doing this for years,
although it's solder, adhesive heatshrink (don't forget to put it
on *before* soldering the joint), more adhesive heatshrink over the
whole thing then insulating tape. OK, it isn't that bendy or
pretty, but it'll go on a drum and I've never, ever, had a joint
fail, and there's one in the lead for my big mains drill.



I have been doing it for years too (without the heatshrink).

I am genuinely quite surprised that there are so many posts worrying
quite deeply about safety.

Of course what I want to do is less good than having a single piece of
flex. But this is not exactly HIGH risk in the circumstances I want to
use it the appliances in.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Does your Bosch have active breaking (stops dead when you release the handle)?

That would be active braking.

break =/= brake

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:


Does your Bosch have active breaking (stops dead when you release the handle)?


That would be active braking.

break =/= brake

Judging from his words, in Andrew's case it does appear that the brake
had been actively breaking...

--
Sue

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:21:07 +0100, Coleman mused:

On 02 Jun 2007, Palindrome wrote:

wrote:
On 2 Jun, 02:02, "Homer J Simpson" wrote:

"Palindrome" wrote in message

...


You can buy Permanent Mains Flex Connectors that don't involve
plugs and sockets, eg
http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/VJ81C_VJ82D.jpg

"Waterproof" versions are also available, for outdoor use.


These are frowned on in many jurisdictions, however if they are
approved in the UK then they can be used there.


Whats the problem with them? Ours all have cord grips.


In the UK portable equipment has to be provided with a fitted plug
- in recognition of the fact that many people were incapable of
correctly fitting (and fusing) one themselves.

So, what are the chances that one of those will correctly choose
and wire one of the above? Or use a non-rugged one outdoors, drag
it around corners, let it fall into a bucket of water, etc?

Many (most?) do not have anything to limit the bending radius of
the cables at the point of entry close to the fixed cord grip. So
strands of the cores break, leading to the risk of fire, failure,
etc.

Few are vapour-tight or even water-tight. As the are often dragged
around through damp grass, left in the shed, etc - there is a real
risk of corrosion..

Bear in mind that a typical application is to "repair" an electric
garden tool - where the user has cut the cable...


Replacing the two cables with a single, contiguous, one is by far
the best solution.


It is the best but sometimes it is too long a job to open up the
appliance and to attach the new flex cores because of the way user-
unfriendly way in which the appliance has been designed.

Make the join at the end near to the appliance so it's not dragged
around corners all the time.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

"Huge" wrote in message
...

Any other joining method will result in potential loss of fire insurance
and
possible prosecution.

Jesus Christ, do you drive? You're about 300 times more likely to
die in a car crash. Get a grip.

You are a dickhead. What part of "I'm sorry sir. Due to your haphazard
electrical 'repairs' your insurance does not cover the total loss of your
home" did you fail to understand?


--
..

--
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

--

In article x6M8i.75197$g63.48816@edtnps82,
Homer J Simpson wrote:
You are a dickhead. What part of "I'm sorry sir. Due to your haphazard
electrical 'repairs' your insurance does not cover the total loss of
your home" did you fail to understand?

Can you give some examples of this in the UK? It would be very difficult
to prove in a court of law.

--
*I love cats...they taste just like chicken.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article x6M8i.75197$g63.48816@edtnps82,
Homer J Simpson wrote:
You are a dickhead. What part of "I'm sorry sir. Due to your haphazard
electrical 'repairs' your insurance does not cover the total loss of
your home" did you fail to understand?

Can you give some examples of this in the UK? It would be very difficult
to prove in a court of law.

Not sure that's relevant -- I've never seen a [UK] policy which
excludes this anyway. Actually, policies often explicitly include
cover for DIY accidents.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 03 Jun 2007, Owain wrote:

Coleman wrote:
[...]

Then stop bodging things and install a proper, permanent socket
where it is needed.

Owain


Bit drastic?

"Alex Coleman" wrote in message
...
On 03 Jun 2007, Owain wrote:

Coleman wrote:
[...]

Then stop bodging things and install a proper, permanent socket
where it is needed.

Owain


Bit drastic?

I didn't see the beginning of this thread, but a technique that I frequently
use when joining wires is as follows. Look at the diagrams in Courier New
font, or they won't make much sense.

-------------- -------------------
Cable +---- wire_1 --------------------+ Cable
sheath +----------- wire_2 -------------+ sheath
+-------------------- wire_3 ----+
-------------- ---------------------

Firstly, strip a piece of the outer cable sheath off and put it to one side
to use later.
Then cut the wires as shown in the diagram. Bare the ends of the wires, and
solder the two ends of wire_1 together, and the same for the other wires.
Because the wires were cut to different lengths in this way, the soldered
joints are not close to each other, and cannot short together.

Now take the piece of sheath that you put to one side, slit it down the
side, and put it over the new joints. At this point, the cable should look
almost as if it had never been worked on.

-------------- ------------------------------------------------- -------------------
Cable | This is the piece of sheath that you | Cable
sheath | kept to one side, now used to | sheath
| cover the joint |
-------------- ------------------------------------------------- ---------------------

Now wind some electrician's tape around the full length of the sheath that
you have inserted, and an inch or so beyond each end. Better still would be
if you had slipped a piece of heat-shrink tubing over the wire before
soldering it together. The heat-shrink tubing should be about two inches
longer than the piece of sheathing you used to cover the joints.
__________________________________________________ _______________
---------/ / / / / / /
/-----------
/ / / Taped up with electrician's tape / /
----/ / / / / /
/____
/ / / / / / /
/
----------/__________________________________________________ _______________/------------

I have used the same technique on multi-wire cable - most recently on an
Ethernet cable that I had to cut to get through a small hole, then join
together again, because I didn't have the tool to put the connector back on.
In this case, with 8 wires, the total length of the connection was about 4
inches.

MikeC

MikeC wrote:
"Alex Coleman" wrote in message
...

On 03 Jun 2007, Owain wrote:


Coleman wrote:

[...]

Then stop bodging things and install a proper, permanent socket
where it is needed.

Owain


Bit drastic?


I didn't see the beginning of this thread, but a technique that I frequently
use when joining wires is as follows. Look at the diagrams in Courier New
font, or they won't make much sense.

-------------- -------------------
Cable +---- wire_1 --------------------+ Cable
sheath +----------- wire_2 -------------+ sheath
+-------------------- wire_3 ----+
-------------- ---------------------

Firstly, strip a piece of the outer cable sheath off and put it to one side
to use later.
Then cut the wires as shown in the diagram. Bare the ends of the wires, and
solder the two ends of wire_1 together, and the same for the other wires.
Because the wires were cut to different lengths in this way, the soldered
joints are not close to each other, and cannot short together.

Now take the piece of sheath that you put to one side, slit it down the
side, and put it over the new joints. At this point, the cable should look
almost as if it had never been worked on.

-------------- ------------------------------------------------- -------------------
Cable | This is the piece of sheath that you | Cable
sheath | kept to one side, now used to | sheath
| cover the joint |
-------------- ------------------------------------------------- ---------------------

Now wind some electrician's tape around the full length of the sheath that
you have inserted, and an inch or so beyond each end. Better still would be
if you had slipped a piece of heat-shrink tubing over the wire before
soldering it together. The heat-shrink tubing should be about two inches
longer than the piece of sheathing you used to cover the joints.
__________________________________________________ _______________
---------/ / / / / / /
/-----------
/ / / Taped up with electrician's tape / /
----/ / / / / /
/____
/ / / / / / /
/
----------/__________________________________________________ _______________/------------

I have used the same technique on multi-wire cable - most recently on an
Ethernet cable that I had to cut to get through a small hole, then join
together again, because I didn't have the tool to put the connector back on.
In this case, with 8 wires, the total length of the connection was about 4
inches.



Fine for signal cables.

Lethal for mains flex.

The method provides virtually no strain relief for the conductors. Which
a continuous outer sheath provides as well as insulation.

Subject to even a modest pull, the conductors or soldered joints will
fail, potentially leading to a bare live conductor.

Any means of jointing mains flex has to provide strain relief for the
conductors comparable to that provided by the outer sheath of the
original cable.


--
Sue

Palindrome wrote:

Fine for signal cables.

It would also be ok for fixed house wiring in the uk, although
heatshrink would be a more appropriate sleeving material than insulating
tape.

Lethal for mains flex.

Yup. If you had some form of enclosure with cord clamps though then it
would be fine.

Any means of jointing mains flex has to provide strain relief for the
conductors comparable to that provided by the outer sheath of the
original cable.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:23:15 +0100, Coleman wrote:

On 01 Jun 2007, wrote:

On 1 Jun, 12:13, Palindrome wrote:
Bob Mannix wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...

Coleman wrote:

I am in the UK. I want to ask for info about joining 3-core
mains flex on an appliance that may have to carry up to 3,000
Watts.

I usually extend the mains flex by soldering but the finished
join is too bulky when winding the flex or pulling it around a
corner.

When I make my 3 joints I slightly offset each one so that it
is not beside another one. This helps make a slimmer overall
joint but it makes for a longer joint (about 2.5 to 3 inches)
and with insulating tape it is still too bulky.

(A) Is it safe to use heat shrink insulating tubing for each
join and have each join beside the other? Then I might use a
single layer of insulating tape to bind over and protect the 3
joins.

(B) Or is there some widget which can help with this? Perhaps
a small moulding which is made up of three very small metal
tubes held by moulded plastic to be close together but not
touching. I could put a wire into each end of a metal tube and
then solder the wires into it. (It's just an idea.)

Any info?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ed_Flex_Joints

But that is about twisted flex joints (the key is in the name
) ) rather than soldered joints, which is what the OP was
talking about. Hardly ideal but still not twisted flex joints
and therefore not subject to the dangers described in the
article.

I would suggest that soldered joints covered with normal heat
shrink and insulating tape, "lack tensile strength, abrasion
resistance, general robustness, spillproofness (they can make a
small spill live), good insulation, petproofness & small
childproofness."

The marginal advantage of soldering the joints has to be balanced
against the greater risk of failing during flexing, as the
soldered joint will form a flexure discontinuity and stress
points.

Of course, soldering with acid flux would be an even greater
problem.

--
Sue

I also thought it was pretty obvious what also applied to soldered
joints. Solder is weak stuff too, though I've not seen any
significant failures from soldering pretwisted flex (at LV). But
not everyone twists enough before soldering.



ISTR there was a time when the different twists had their own names.
Maybe they still do.

Wasn't something like "Western Roll" one such name???

You're thinking of the Western Union splice:

http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14...s/14176_46.htm

The Western Roll is a high jump technique which preceded the Fosbury Flop.