Evening all,

I was looking to try and reduce the intrusion of road noise into the back
garden of my house. There is a 40mph B road directly behind the garden and
it can sometimes get quite busy. The noise is not a major issue in the
house (22m away) but it can make the garden feel less than peaceful.

I have seen a number of 'noise barriers' advertised from companies e.g.
http://www.bettafencing.co.uk/perman...icreflect.html
http://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/pa...&fmc=BV&fnc=AX

They are basically motorway noise barriers as far as I can see

I am contemplating either buying this as a kit and DIYing the install,
trying to make similar or just getting it fitted.

However it is quite pricey (think £100/m fitted) and I wanted to know if
anyone has opinions as to how effective it might be OR better still
experience of such a barrier.


Some facts
The road is about 2m from the fence at the back of the property. AT present
there is an exisitng old 6ft feather baor fence at the back of the garden.
One side has chainlink fence and leylandi - this is then open to the road
and the other just leylandi - this is between adjacent gardens. Where
there is chainlink and leylandi you really hear the road!!!

I was thinking about going up to 2.4m (with planning perm.) at rear of
garden and 2m at sides.

I would be really interested to hear any constructive comments, and how
other people had tried to reduce noise in their gardens

Thanks
Tim

I would be really interested to hear any constructive comments, and how
other people had tried to reduce noise in their gardens

Not tried it myself, but there are several manufacturers of "acoustic
fencing" if you throw that term into google...

This one also gives an idea about the level of reduction you might get
from their stuff...

http://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/pa...prod_det.aspx?
tpc=AS&fmc=BV&fnc=AX

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yvtgud

In message , Tim Snell
writes
I would be really interested to hear any constructive comments, and how
other people had tried to reduce noise in their gardens

Wouldn't a wall of conifers have an effect on absorbing the noise?

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

Clive Mitchell wrote:

In message , Tim Snell
writes
I would be really interested to hear any constructive comments, and how
other people had tried to reduce noise in their gardens

Wouldn't a wall of conifers have an effect on absorbing the noise?

Apparently you need a huge amount of vegetation (50m) to halve the noise...
However foliage does give the all important psychological barrier that
prevents viewing the road.

Think fence + trellis + attractive climbers - leylandi

In message , Tim Snell
writes
Wouldn't a wall of conifers have an effect on absorbing the noise?

Apparently you need a huge amount of vegetation (50m) to halve the
noise... However foliage does give the all important psychological
barrier that prevents viewing the road.

Think fence + trellis + attractive climbers - leylandi

What if they were planted in the middle of the road. That would stop
all the traffic then there's be no noise.


On a more serious note, a water feature could help raise ambient noise
levels in a pleasing manner and make the traffic noise less of a
nuisance.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

The absolute enemy of noise reduction are gaps of any kind (hence why
vegetation is so bad)

I would suggest a normal stout closeboard or lap fence with thick
boards as high as you can go. Seal any and every gap

"Tim Snell" wrote in message
...
Evening all,

I was looking to try and reduce the intrusion of road noise into the
back
garden of my house.

snip

It's 30 years since I worked in the Noise Unit of a County Council, so I
may be a little rusty on the subject, but iirc the two big factors were
the plan angle obscured by the barrier, and the path difference between
the direct line of sight from the observer to a point just (0.5m?) above
the road surface and the distance from the source to the observer via
the top of the barrier.

In other words, a barrier is ineffective if the noise can "get round the
side", and "the higher, and closer to the road, the better". The
barrier itself doesn't need to be anything too special, but must not
have any holes or gaps.

As someone else mentioned, hedges, trees, and so on, have mainly a
psychological effect.

This is all based on the prediction methods that were introduced in the
Land Compensation Act, and relate to L10 noise levels, which were
favoured at the time (the A-weighted noise level exceeded for 10% of the
time). I believe that Leq is now favoured, but for some individuals it
may be peak noise levels, or peaks relative to ambient levels, that
matter more.

I once lived in a house where the bedroom window was level with, and
about 8 yards away from, the East Coast Main Line down line. L10 would
have been quite low, Leq probably reasonable, but Lpeak bloody
horrendous. Fortunately, the Deltics were on the up line, about 10ft
further away, when they were all opening up to full power.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. )***

"David Sims" wrote in message
oups.com...
The absolute enemy of noise reduction are gaps of any kind (hence why
vegetation is so bad)

I would suggest a normal stout closeboard or lap fence with thick
boards as high as you can go. Seal any and every gap

I would go for a brick wall. They have to be very badly made to have gaps
and the mass will also help to prevent them transmitting noise.

Colin Bignell

Clive Mitchell wrote:


On a more serious note, a water feature could help raise ambient noise
levels in a pleasing manner and make the traffic noise less of a
nuisance.

Yes that is a good idea, especially if it s close to seating etc.

Th

Autolycus wrote:


"Tim Snell" wrote in message
...
Evening all,

I was looking to try and reduce the intrusion of road noise into the
back
garden of my house.

snip

It's 30 years since I worked in the Noise Unit of a County Council, so I
may be a little rusty on the subject, but iirc the two big factors were
the plan angle obscured by the barrier, and the path difference between
the direct line of sight from the observer to a point just (0.5m?) above
the road surface and the distance from the source to the observer via
the top of the barrier.

Wow thanks. I think I understand the path difference but what is the plan
angle? Is it not the angle that creates the path difference (over the
distance from source to observer?).

In other words, a barrier is ineffective if the noise can "get round the
side", and "the higher, and closer to the road, the better". The
barrier itself doesn't need to be anything too special, but must not
have any holes or gaps.

So a heavy fence without gaps...which is basically what those noise barriers
are. They seem to employ cover boards or tongue/groove to avoid the normal
endemic gaps you get with fencing

As someone else mentioned, hedges, trees, and so on, have mainly a
psychological effect.

Yes that is my understanding

"Tim Snell" wrote in message
...
Autolycus wrote:


"Tim Snell" wrote in message
...
Evening all,

I was looking to try and reduce the intrusion of road noise into the
back
garden of my house.

snip

It's 30 years since I worked in the Noise Unit of a County Council,
so I
may be a little rusty on the subject, but iirc the two big factors
were
the plan angle obscured by the barrier, and the path difference
between
the direct line of sight from the observer to a point just (0.5m?)
above
the road surface and the distance from the source to the observer via
the top of the barrier.

Wow thanks. I think I understand the path difference but what is the
plan
angle? Is it not the angle that creates the path difference (over the
distance from source to observer?).

Draw a plan of the road, the barrier, and the point in the garden you're
thinking about. If the road were infinitely long and straight, and
there were no barrier, it would subtend an angle of 180 degrees. Now
think of the barrier blocking part of the view of the road. This
reduces the 180 degree "view", depending on the site geometry, such as
the curvature of the road and the length of the barrier. To maximise
the angle obscured, the barrier may need to extend onto your neighbour's
land, or return at a right angle along the boundary. Other houses, etc,
may help to reduce the angle of view, but if the road rises, it may
become visible over the barrier.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. )***

nightjar wrote:


"David Sims" wrote in message
oups.com...
The absolute enemy of noise reduction are gaps of any kind (hence why
vegetation is so bad)

I would suggest a normal stout closeboard or lap fence with thick
boards as high as you can go. Seal any and every gap

I would go for a brick wall. They have to be very badly made to have gaps
and the mass will also help to prevent them transmitting noise.

Colin Bignell
Yes but how much would that cost??

Seriously 2.4m/8ft high by 25m what on earth would that cost...does anyone
know?

"Tim Snell" wrote in message
...
nightjar wrote:


"David Sims" wrote in message
oups.com...
The absolute enemy of noise reduction are gaps of any kind (hence why
vegetation is so bad)

I would suggest a normal stout closeboard or lap fence with thick
boards as high as you can go. Seal any and every gap

I would go for a brick wall. They have to be very badly made to have gaps
and the mass will also help to prevent them transmitting noise.

Colin Bignell
Yes but how much would that cost??

Seriously 2.4m/8ft high by 25m what on earth would that cost...does anyone
know?

I would expect it to be cheaper than a specialised noise reflecting fence,
especially if you use high density concrete block, rather than brick.

This being uk.d-i-y you would, of course do your own bricklaying and a wall
that big would give you a fair bit of practice. :-)

Colin Bignell

Tim Snell wrote:

Clive Mitchell wrote:


On a more serious note, a water feature could help raise ambient noise
levels in a pleasing manner and make the traffic noise less of a
nuisance.


Yes that is a good idea, especially if it s close to seating etc.

You have no concept of the noise that comes from a road.

I live in an area that has an old motorway to our left (the first in
England) a slightly newer one that joins up to it, at our right and an
almost brand spanking new one that crosses the pair of them.

Old one is only audible on the quietest summer night. The next newer one
is audible on any quiet night and even during a quiet day and the new
boy on the block makes our back garden unavailable outside the hours of
0700 hrs to about 2200 hrs for a conversation above about 10 to 15 foot.

I complained to our MP about the noise and suggested that the use of
quiet tarmac would reduce the noise by several decibels. He passed this
on to the relevant authority, who wrote back and said that as the
surface of the road was good, any resurfacing was not on the immediate
agenda and that I had several tall trees between me and the motorway
closest to us to prevent any noise from disturbing us.

I don't know where these trees are, but I can see the bridge that the
motorway takes over a feeder road to it and all it has is a plastic
panel on it. Estimated height about 6 foot.

So why can I hear all three motorways day and night?

Dave

Tim Snell wrote:
Evening all,

I was looking to try and reduce the intrusion of road noise into the back
garden of my house. There is a 40mph B road directly behind the garden and
it can sometimes get quite busy. The noise is not a major issue in the
house (22m away) but it can make the garden feel less than peaceful.

I have seen a number of 'noise barriers' advertised from companies e.g.
http://www.bettafencing.co.uk/perman...icreflect.html
http://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/pa...&fmc=BV&fnc=AX

They are basically motorway noise barriers as far as I can see

I am contemplating either buying this as a kit and DIYing the install,
trying to make similar or just getting it fitted.

However it is quite pricey (think £100/m fitted) and I wanted to know if
anyone has opinions as to how effective it might be OR better still
experience of such a barrier.


Some facts
The road is about 2m from the fence at the back of the property. AT present
there is an exisitng old 6ft feather baor fence at the back of the garden.
One side has chainlink fence and leylandi - this is then open to the road
and the other just leylandi - this is between adjacent gardens. Where
there is chainlink and leylandi you really hear the road!!!

I was thinking about going up to 2.4m (with planning perm.) at rear of
garden and 2m at sides.

I would be really interested to hear any constructive comments, and how
other people had tried to reduce noise in their gardens

Thanks
Tim

Leylandii good, brick wall better.

Dave wrote:
Tim Snell wrote:

Clive Mitchell wrote:


On a more serious note, a water feature could help raise ambient noise
levels in a pleasing manner and make the traffic noise less of a
nuisance.


Yes that is a good idea, especially if it s close to seating etc.

You have no concept of the noise that comes from a road.

I live in an area that has an old motorway to our left (the first in
England) a slightly newer one that joins up to it, at our right and an
almost brand spanking new one that crosses the pair of them.

Old one is only audible on the quietest summer night. The next newer one
is audible on any quiet night and even during a quiet day and the new
boy on the block makes our back garden unavailable outside the hours of
0700 hrs to about 2200 hrs for a conversation above about 10 to 15 foot.

I complained to our MP about the noise and suggested that the use of
quiet tarmac would reduce the noise by several decibels. He passed this
on to the relevant authority, who wrote back and said that as the
surface of the road was good, any resurfacing was not on the immediate
agenda and that I had several tall trees between me and the motorway
closest to us to prevent any noise from disturbing us.

I don't know where these trees are, but I can see the bridge that the
motorway takes over a feeder road to it and all it has is a plastic
panel on it. Estimated height about 6 foot.

So why can I hear all three motorways day and night?

Diffraction.

My mothers house was - when I were a nipper - a reasonably quiet place.
Ok the electric trains a mile away were audible. And I got used to the
Heathrow holding pattern and the V bombers landing at the unmarked
airfield just down the road.

Then they built the M25. Its about 5 miles away, and it roars day and
night, and you could hear it all the time.

Another reaoson to no longer live in Surrey.


Dave

Tim Snell wrote:
nightjar wrote:

"David Sims" wrote in message
oups.com...
The absolute enemy of noise reduction are gaps of any kind (hence why
vegetation is so bad)

I would suggest a normal stout closeboard or lap fence with thick
boards as high as you can go. Seal any and every gap
I would go for a brick wall. They have to be very badly made to have gaps
and the mass will also help to prevent them transmitting noise.

Colin Bignell
Yes but how much would that cost??

Seriously 2.4m/8ft high by 25m what on earth would that cost...does anyone
know?

www.pavingexpert.com

Probably a grand or so off the top of my head.

Less than a pair of double glazed windows

Tim Snell wrote:
Autolycus wrote:

"Tim Snell" wrote in message
...
Evening all,

I was looking to try and reduce the intrusion of road noise into the
back
garden of my house.
snip

It's 30 years since I worked in the Noise Unit of a County Council, so I
may be a little rusty on the subject, but iirc the two big factors were
the plan angle obscured by the barrier, and the path difference between
the direct line of sight from the observer to a point just (0.5m?) above
the road surface and the distance from the source to the observer via
the top of the barrier.

Wow thanks. I think I understand the path difference but what is the plan
angle? Is it not the angle that creates the path difference (over the
distance from source to observer?).

In other words, a barrier is ineffective if the noise can "get round the
side", and "the higher, and closer to the road, the better". The
barrier itself doesn't need to be anything too special, but must not
have any holes or gaps.

So a heavy fence without gaps...which is basically what those noise barriers
are. They seem to employ cover boards or tongue/groove to avoid the normal
endemic gaps you get with fencing

As someone else mentioned, hedges, trees, and so on, have mainly a
psychological effect.

Yes that is my understanding


Not so,. Trees are actually pretty good if you have enough of them.
Leylanddi especially. The darker it is under the tree the more of
everything gets absorbed.

However yuu can't beat concrete blocks..faced with brick on the 'fair
side' for aesthetics..oh except an earth bank.

There is a place at thelocal service airfield where they run up
engines..jets and turboprops...there is a huge bank. Its quieter behind
that bank than it is half a mile across the airfield to the nearest
other boundary.,

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:18:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Leylandii good, brick wall better.

Another idea, site in German, as an idea:

http://www.freitag-weidenart.com/Sei...m.php?seiten=0

Seems they've patented an idea where two willow fences are tied together and the
space between is filled with earth. The willows sprout and grow, solidifying
everything, giving a solid and growing wall.

(Needs plenty of water, I expect, and a gardener, else the willows might get out
of hand.)


Thomas Prufer

On Mar 14, 10:12 pm, Clive Mitchell wrote:
In message , Tim Snell
writes

I would be really interested to hear any constructive comments, and how
other people had tried to reduce noise in their gardens

Wouldn't a wall of conifers have an effect on absorbing the noise?


No it wouldn't I'm afraid, take alook he

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...0081f9941e1c39

Robert

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:26:00 +0000, Tim Snell wrote:

Evening all,

I was looking to try and reduce the intrusion of road noise into the back
garden of my house. There is a 40mph B road directly behind the garden and
it can sometimes get quite busy. The noise is not a major issue in the
house (22m away) but it can make the garden feel less than peaceful.

I have seen a number of 'noise barriers' advertised from companies e.g.
http://www.bettafencing.co.uk/perman...icreflect.html
http://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/pa...&fmc=BV&fnc=AX

I've not seen those designs before, but the common method seems to be a
three layer approach to try and destroy the level due to frequency changes,
see diagrams on

http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/gl_design_o...206578,00.html

I've seen commerical ones in use in the UK, but don't know where they come
from. As the fence is close to the road a higher fence/wall of any
description is going to give the best result.

Steve

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes

As someone else mentioned, hedges, trees, and so on, have mainly a
psychological effect.

Yes that is my understanding

Not so,. Trees are actually pretty good if you have enough of them.
Leylanddi especially. The darker it is under the tree the more of
everything gets absorbed.

However yuu can't beat concrete blocks..faced with brick on the 'fair
side' for aesthetics..oh except an earth bank.

There is a place at thelocal service airfield where they run up
engines..jets and turboprops...there is a huge bank. Its quieter behind
that bank than it is half a mile across the airfield to the nearest
other boundary.,

Ah! Bunds.

My wife wants one.

Line of sight to our village by-pass is 100m. Pause for gasps of envy at
such solitude.... However, this is a river valley and the highway
remains elevated for around 0.5k. We have the shelter belt of Leylandi
but road noise remains intrusive (best at rush hour when they are
queuing). I looked at sound reduction fencing, the stretch on the M1
near South Luton cost around 6million, and would need to be at road
level; some 20' up.

A bund would appear to be the ideal solution. Excellent noise reduction,
cheap; can use class A waste and charge by the ton for tipping. We
already own the land so kindly work out how many tons of fill would be
needed for something 30' high and around 1000'long:-)

There is the slight problem that we are upstream and the bund would dam
the river.

regards
--
Tim Lamb

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 23:45:59 +0000, Tim Snell
wrote:

nightjar wrote:


"David Sims" wrote in message
oups.com...
The absolute enemy of noise reduction are gaps of any kind (hence why
vegetation is so bad)

I would suggest a normal stout closeboard or lap fence with thick
boards as high as you can go. Seal any and every gap

I would go for a brick wall. They have to be very badly made to have gaps
and the mass will also help to prevent them transmitting noise.

Colin Bignell
Yes but how much would that cost??

Seriously 2.4m/8ft high by 25m what on earth would that cost...does anyone
know?

plain solid concrete blocks which are 440mm long x 10mm wide and about
20cm high (its a standard block size that i cant recall at the
moment!) are a touch over 60p each at my local builders merchant.

I just extended my existing wall from about 80cm high to just under
2m. It is 60ft long (roughly 20m).

I used about 370 blocks - however i also built a buttress every 6-8
foot or so to give the wall extra strength - which uses quite a few
more bricks but should stop it falling down so easily! (approx 25
blocks per buttress but my wall is curved and has children climbing
over it so really needs it - you could probably go for one every 10-15
foot)

assuming that you need 700 bricks, that would be £441 at 63p each

you are going to want foundations too, in addition to mortar so budget
for 3 tons of sand (about £30/ton), 10-15 bags of cement (£3.20 each)
and some gravel/hardcore if you havent already got some.

I reckon that puts you at £600ish assuming you did your own labour.
You will want a cement mixer too! (£50 off ebay)

Its taken me about 2 weeks - I can now lay about 50 blocks in an 8
hour day, so you are looking at quite a few days of work if you do it
solo!.

That should give you a good idea!

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Then they built the M25. Its about 5 miles away, and it roars day and
night, and you could hear it all the time.

I wonder if a sound cancellation system could be used to reduce noise...

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com