Hi all,
I've just fitted a screwfix grove deluxe bathroom suite. All going OK so
far apart from the toilet. It fills really really slowly and now it's not
filling at all. This is the pictu

http://www.varshaandjon.plus.com/bathroom/IMG_0291e.jpg

It's fed from the tank in the loft. If I take the top off the fill
stack - which removes the float arm and a diaphragm with a 2mm plastic pole
through it, and gently release the service valve I get a reasonable
fountain of water. Suggesting that the flow up to this diaphragm is OK.

There doesn't seem to be an obvious mains vs. gravity fed switcheable part
and it's not mentioned in the instructions. Is this a torbeck valve?

Also there is a small pipe connection (~4mm OD) at the top of this stack -
what do you think it does this was supplied filled at the end. Err, I
drilled it, thinking that if it has no effect then I could glue it over.
Well it released a trickle but not the miracle cure I was after.

Thanks in advance,

Jon

Ps Although it's not technically working, it isn't leaking either which was
the problem I thought I'd have.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 08:56:38 +0000, Jon Telfer
wrote:

Hi all,
I've just fitted a screwfix grove deluxe bathroom suite. All going OK so
far apart from the toilet. It fills really really slowly and now it's not
filling at all. This is the pictu

http://www.varshaandjon.plus.com/bathroom/IMG_0291e.jpg

It's fed from the tank in the loft. If I take the top off the fill
stack - which removes the float arm and a diaphragm with a 2mm plastic pole
through it, and gently release the service valve I get a reasonable
fountain of water. Suggesting that the flow up to this diaphragm is OK.

There doesn't seem to be an obvious mains vs. gravity fed switcheable part
and it's not mentioned in the instructions. Is this a torbeck valve?

Also there is a small pipe connection (~4mm OD) at the top of this stack -
what do you think it does this was supplied filled at the end. Err, I
drilled it, thinking that if it has no effect then I could glue it over.
Well it released a trickle but not the miracle cure I was after.


It shouldn't be necessary to drill out the little nozzle, I would hsve
thought, the valve should work out of the box.

The valve isn't a Torbeck branded one as far as I can see, but it is
of the same principle - an equilibrium float valve.

If it has a flow restrictor for mains use, this is normally a spiral
insert either behind the disphragm top or more likely in the inlet
where the tap connector fitting is screwed on at the bottom.

This type of valve works by there being a small hole in the front cap
through which a tiny amount of water is allowed to escape when filling
is required. This causes the pressure to drop in the front part of
the chamber behind and the incoming pressure will push the diaphragm
forward releasing water into the cistern.

There should also be some kind of needle valve in the diaphragm. This
is either formed with a needle mounted in the back of the valve and
going through a tiny hard plastic grommet in the diaphragm, or
sometimes with a little plastic peg in said hole

One likely reason for the problem is if the small hole at the front
cap has become blocked, water can't escape. A second is if the needle
valve is blocked.

During and immediately after installation, it is quite possible that a
particle of crud has found its way to one or both of these valves.


Try taking the valve carefully apart, unclipping the front arm.

There should be a fine hole in the front. Push a *very* fine piece
of wire through the hole in the front of the valve taking care not to
enlarge the hole. Similarly check the needle valve and see if that
has a problem.

If there is a flow restrictor, you can remove it although it will only
make a difference to flow rate, not to whether or not the valve works.
You've effectively flushed the valve so no need to do that again.

If you remove the valve completely to look for an insert in the
bottom, then when refitting, don't do up the nut fixing the valve in
the cistern first. Begin by getting the tap connector nut back on and
done up loosely, then do up the retaining nut.
Stripped threads on a cistern valve on a Sunday afternoon an hour
before the sheds close is practically a blue light job.


--

..andy

Thanks for that Andy. I've taken it apart and had a look at it. I don't
think the fine hole that is plugged by the float arm was blocked.
I found the diaphragm and I have a plastic pin through it - approx 1-2mm
diameter. There's nothing finer than that though. I took the diaphragm
out and flexed it a bit as it was a bit stiff. This has upped the flow
rate a little but it's not great. I've emailled the manufacturer's (B&H
www.ukbathrooms.org) so I'll see if they have anything usefull to add.

Thanks,

Jon

On 2007-02-25 17:31:05 +0000, Jon Telfer said:

Thanks for that Andy. I've taken it apart and had a look at it. I don't
think the fine hole that is plugged by the float arm was blocked.
I found the diaphragm and I have a plastic pin through it - approx 1-2mm
diameter. There's nothing finer than that though. I took the diaphragm
out and flexed it a bit as it was a bit stiff. This has upped the flow
rate a little but it's not great. I've emailled the manufacturer's (B&H
www.ukbathrooms.org) so I'll see if they have anything usefull to add.

Thanks,

Jon

Hmm..... Not very conclusive. I'm wondering whether perhaps this
valve is of a type normally used in the rest of Europe where cisterns
etc. are mains fed. Possibly the diaphragm is a little thicker than
one for a valve intended for the UK where the supply can be either
mains or loft tank and a flow restrictor is used where there is mains
pressure. That could be an explanation of what you are seeing, and it
wouldn't be the first time that UK suppliers provide plumbing items
sourced elsewhere in Europe that are only suitable for mains use - taps
are another example.

To be honest if this becomes anything more than the supplier sending
you a replacement diaphragm
for the existing valve or a complete valve free of charge, then it
really isn't worth pursuing.

You can buy a proper Torbeck valve for under £10 (e.g. 55211 from
Screwfix) which will certainly work. From your photo, it doesn't
appear that the float valve is in any way associated with the flush
mechanism or that it is of any special type.

Andy Hall wrote:
To be honest if this becomes anything more than the supplier sending
you a replacement diaphragm
for the existing valve or a complete valve free of charge, then it
really isn't worth pursuing.

You can buy a proper Torbeck valve for under £10 (e.g. 55211 from
Screwfix) which will certainly work. From your photo, it doesn't
appear that the float valve is in any way associated with the flush
mechanism or that it is of any special type.

Some progress made at least, I contacted the valve manufacturer who replied
with:

Hi Jon,
Sorry to hear the problem - the ball valve you have is for H/P not L/P
We are able to provide a L/P valve at cost price £10 + delivery.
We would normally sell theses valves for £20 + delivery.
If this is expectable to contact *******.
Explain the situation - mention my name.
Take care & good luck

Suggesting it's perhaps not an interchangeable part (or they're not set up
to do that kind of thing). Not a particularly attractive offer but then
again he's not the supplier so doesn't have to be that nice.
I phoned screwfix and they are going to talk to their distributor to see
what can be done. If that draws a blank then it'll be the Torbeck valve
you suggest.

Thanks again for your help.

Jon

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:58:18 +0000, Jon Telfer
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
To be honest if this becomes anything more than the supplier sending
you a replacement diaphragm
for the existing valve or a complete valve free of charge, then it
really isn't worth pursuing.

You can buy a proper Torbeck valve for under £10 (e.g. 55211 from
Screwfix) which will certainly work. From your photo, it doesn't
appear that the float valve is in any way associated with the flush
mechanism or that it is of any special type.

Some progress made at least, I contacted the valve manufacturer who replied
with:

Hi Jon,
Sorry to hear the problem - the ball valve you have is for H/P not L/P
We are able to provide a L/P valve at cost price £10 + delivery.
We would normally sell theses valves for £20 + delivery.
If this is expectable to contact *******.
Explain the situation - mention my name.
Take care & good luck

Suggesting it's perhaps not an interchangeable part (or they're not set up
to do that kind of thing). Not a particularly attractive offer but then
again he's not the supplier so doesn't have to be that nice.
I phoned screwfix and they are going to talk to their distributor to see
what can be done. If that draws a blank then it'll be the Torbeck valve
you suggest.

Thanks again for your help.

Jon


You're very welcome. If you live near a shed, I think you should be
able to get one for about a tenner anyway.

--

..andy