This may have been posted before , my half working computer lacks the
facility to search and check.

has anyone any experience of this new electric heating system that I am
seeing advertised?

It claims to be cost efficient and the new electric central heating system
with heaters that are designed to be the new night storage heaters?

I have economy 7 and a solid fuel fire system ( no choice - no mains other
than electric and found oil and LPG disproportionate in cost ). I need an
extra heater in one of my rooms . Is this system worth it? I am concerned
because it seems to be on all day ( expensive electric for me on a duel
tariff).

How do these new heaters work exactly?

Thanks for all input in advance. Advice much appreciated on this topic.

On 20 Feb, 08:15, "Someone" wrote:
This may have been posted before , my half working computer lacks the
facility to search and check.

has anyone any experience of this new electric heating system that I am
seeing advertised?

It claims to be cost efficient and the new electric central heating system
with heaters that are designed to be the new night storage heaters?

I have economy 7 and a solid fuel fire system ( no choice - no mains other
than electric and found oil and LPG disproportionate in cost ). I need an
extra heater in one of my rooms . Is this system worth it? I am concerned
because it seems to be on all day ( expensive electric for me on a duel
tariff).

How do these new heaters work exactly?

Thanks for all input in advance. Advice much appreciated on this topic.

I think you are talking about a wet electric sytem as per link

http://www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk/g...lectramate.htm

Thanks for all input in advance. Advice much appreciated on this topic.

I think you are talking about a wet electric sytem as per link

http://www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk/g...lectramate.htm

Thank you for the link but this isnt what I have been looking at. The
heaters I have been looking at are a totally dry system. It just connects
to an ordinary socket and are claiming to run for no more than fifteen
minutes in any hour witha floor level thermostat.

They claim to be the " new generation of night storage heaters" according to
the bumf I have. Short of getting them out to do a survey ( which I dont
want since I am not changing the system, just want to add a single heater in
one room) I cant find any further info on them.

On 20 Feb, 19:10, "Someone" wrote:
Thanks for all input in advance. Advice much appreciated on this topic.

I think you are talking about a wet electric sytem as per link

http://www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk/g...lectramate.htm

Thank you for the link but this isnt what I have been looking at. The
heaters I have been looking at are a totally dry system. It just connects
to an ordinary socket and are claiming to run for no more than fifteen
minutes in any hour witha floor level thermostat.

They claim to be the " new generation of night storage heaters" according to
the bumf I have. Short of getting them out to do a survey ( which I dont
want since I am not changing the system, just want to add a single heater in
one room) I cant find any further info on them.



just another storage heater then. SHs are one of the most expensive
ways to heat in most cases. if you do end up with them, check out an
ac unit as well, which will run at arund 300% efficiency during milder
weather and save money.


NT

It just connects to an ordinary socket

Which suggests a "typical electric heater"...

claiming to run for no more than fifteen minutes in
any hour with a floor level thermostat.

Which is saying "if sized correctly"...
Which is not saying "how many kW" the thing is...

They claim to be the " new generation of night storage heaters"

This sounds like the French electric oil filled radiators?
They draw peak rate electricity, LCD hand remote control?
If so - ideal for cold spell in southern France, useless UK :-)


About the only viable PEAK electricity heating...
o Kitchen -- 2kW wall fan heater or plinth heater
o Control -- ideally setback/comfort PIR on wall (£40-60)
o Cost -- small "lean-to" kitchen costs avg 20p/day Nov-Mar

Simply because PEAK electricity is 10p/kWh, off-peak 4p/kWh.


To calculate what size storage heater...
o Go to Dimplex website, find heating / storage heater section
o Look for the storage heater tables, in a PDF as I recall
o They work on room-size + desired-temp + insulation


Storage heaters come in 3 types...
o Old - limited insulation, leak lots of heat, low capacity, huge
o Modern - good insulation, leak less heat, high capacity, slim
o Combo - as above, but also PEAK rate top-up heater

Dimplex DuoHeat is a modern combo...
o Small Off-Peak storage heater -- typically 0.9-2.55kW
o Small ON-PEAK direct heater -- typically 0.9-1.5kW

Work by a user setting a desired room temperature...
o On the heater itself or on a central LCD display wall programmer
o As the storage heater runs out, direct ON-PEAK heater turns on

Undersizing the heater will cause *lots* of PEAK electricity usage.
Oversizing the heater will slowly cook you overnight :-)


DuoHeat PDF has a chart showing storage heater output decline
o Storage heater output declines from midday onwards
o Temperature maintained by ON-PEAK heater turning on
o If ON-PEAK cycle is 100% it's 90p/day, if 50% it's 45p/day

Creda to a similar system, Credanet-II.
These systems are really for small well insulated flats & such.
Any peak rate heating is 4x more expensive than gas.


If the system you are looking at is not a true storage heater,
it will most probably prove even more expensive to run.
o 2.5kW storage heater draws 18kW over 7hrs at 4p/kWh
o Heater leaks 9-10kW during charging - warms room
o Heater stores 8kW which it releases over remaining 12hrs
o So avoids drawing 8kW during the day at 10p/kWh :-)


You essentially want to add an extra storage heater to a room.
o Automatic will save 15-20% on energy usage during charge
o Automatic ensure they DO charge if you forget to set them

Look carefully at the literature re what type it *really is*.
If it is a DuoHeat or CredaNet type with PEAK heating element,
they are a little more difficult to size. They really could do with
sample case studies showing real bills, by BBA - they don't do :-)
--
DB.

On 20 Feb, 22:19, "Dorothy Bradbury"
wrote:
It just connects to an ordinary socket

Which suggests a "typical electric heater"...

claiming to run for no more than fifteen minutes in
any hour with a floor level thermostat.

Which is saying "if sized correctly"...
Which is not saying "how many kW" the thing is...

They claim to be the " new generation of night storage heaters"

This sounds like the French electric oil filled radiators?
They draw peak rate electricity, LCD hand remote control?
If so - ideal for cold spell in southern France, useless UK :-)

About the only viable PEAK electricity heating...
o Kitchen -- 2kW wall fan heater or plinth heater
o Control -- ideally setback/comfort PIR on wall (£40-60)
o Cost -- small "lean-to" kitchen costs avg 20p/day Nov-Mar

Simply because PEAK electricity is 10p/kWh, off-peak 4p/kWh.

To calculate what size storage heater...
o Go to Dimplex website, find heating / storage heater section
o Look for the storage heater tables, in a PDF as I recall
o They work on room-size + desired-temp + insulation

Storage heaters come in 3 types...
o Old - limited insulation, leak lots of heat, low capacity, huge
o Modern - good insulation, leak less heat, high capacity, slim
o Combo - as above, but also PEAK rate top-up heater

Dimplex DuoHeat is a modern combo...
o Small Off-Peak storage heater -- typically 0.9-2.55kW
o Small ON-PEAK direct heater -- typically 0.9-1.5kW

Work by a user setting a desired room temperature...
o On the heater itself or on a central LCD display wall programmer
o As the storage heater runs out, direct ON-PEAK heater turns on

Undersizing the heater will cause *lots* of PEAK electricity usage.
Oversizing the heater will slowly cook you overnight :-)

DuoHeat PDF has a chart showing storage heater output decline
o Storage heater output declines from midday onwards
o Temperature maintained by ON-PEAK heater turning on
o If ON-PEAK cycle is 100% it's 90p/day, if 50% it's 45p/day

Creda to a similar system, Credanet-II.
These systems are really for small well insulated flats & such.
Any peak rate heating is 4x more expensive than gas.

If the system you are looking at is not a true storage heater,
it will most probably prove even more expensive to run.
o 2.5kW storage heater draws 18kW over 7hrs at 4p/kWh
o Heater leaks 9-10kW during charging - warms room
o Heater stores 8kW which it releases over remaining 12hrs
o So avoids drawing 8kW during the day at 10p/kWh :-)

You essentially want to add an extra storage heater to a room.
o Automatic will save 15-20% on energy usage during charge
o Automatic ensure they DO charge if you forget to set them

Look carefully at the literature re what type it *really is*.
If it is a DuoHeat or CredaNet type with PEAK heating element,
they are a little more difficult to size. They really could do with
sample case studies showing real bills, by BBA - they don't do :-)
--
DB.

Im ripping out a storage heating sytem, they are not economically
viable, anything below zero in winter and the heaters cant cope, the
heaters are not in every room, you will always be backing it up with
3kw peak heaters.
The amount you would save with central heating and a modern condensing
boiler would pay for a loan spead over 7 years to pay for the central
heating installation.
Plus you would have a system that worked with controllable
temperature, you can demand heat where and when you want it.

Not to mention the increase of value on your property, change it
tomorrow wether you have the money or not.

Economy 7 was something that was tried in the 70's that was a failure,
it might be ok in a pensioners flat, or to build a house on the cheap,
but as a serious heating system in the uk forget it.

On Feb 20, 8:15 am, "Someone" wrote:
This may have been posted before , my half working computer lacks the
facility to search and check.

has anyone any experience of this new electric heating system that I am
seeing advertised?

It claims to be cost efficient and the new electric central heating system
with heaters that are designed to be the new night storage heaters?

I have economy 7 and a solid fuel fire system ( no choice - no mains other
than electric and found oil and LPG disproportionate in cost ). I need an
extra heater in one of my rooms . Is this system worth it? I am concerned
because it seems to be on all day ( expensive electric for me on a duel
tariff).

How do these new heaters work exactly?

Thanks for all input in advance. Advice much appreciated on this topic.

Hi

Just one extra room, my recommendatiuon would be to look into an Air
Source Heat Pump. Very energy efficient heating and more controllable
than storage heaters. These things are very common in Scandinavia and
in the States, but not so common here currently. A good option if you
are off the gas grid. Try my renewable energy questionnaire to see
what heating and generation technology would be suitable for you at
www.growyourownenergy.co.uk

anything below zero in winter and the heaters cant cope

Indeed...
o For a house their only practical value is for a hallway
o They are really for small well insulated 530sqft flats & such

Economics are against them...
Peak rate electrical heating is 4x more expensive than gas.
E7 rate electrical heating is 81% more expensive than a 94%
efficient gas boiler - inherently re distribution losses involved.

Design is against them...
Even in a small well insulated 530sqft flat you still have the
problem of a) oversized & cook overnight b) undersized &
run out of heat by 7pm. The insulation is insufficient despite
modern silica & the core temp (density) is limited to 690oC.


Not to mention the increase of value on your property,
change it tomorrow wether you have the money or not.

I believe the OP was Off-Grid, which is the problem.

I would feel sorry for anyone relying on storage heaters,
they are really quite useless without supplemental heating.

Reading the EA Technology research on Credanet/Duoheat
it lists 15% better efficiency than Manual storage heaters.
However plain Automatic storage heaters have a 15% gain
over their Manual counterparts. So the electronic system is
higher capital cost (£170 controller, £80 per heater) & offers
slightly better control over on-peak electrical heating. That
is with a single point of failure re radio signalling systems.

I dug through them with lots of spreadsheets re relatives
looking at apartments with them vs versus those without.
If people are out all day, returning at 6pm, they will quite
literally wonder what the bill they get is paying for :-)

For off-grid the choices are still oil/lpg/wet-E10.
That is unless you believe UK will never go 3oC again :-)

Wet probably needs E10 to give it the 3 split boosts.
However it is a tariff only available from one supplier,
historically that may have some price/availability risks.

Oil for off-grid is still popular, and in theory has the future
possibility of being convertable to other fuels as needed.
--
DB.

"Richard" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 20 Feb, 22:19, "Dorothy Bradbury"
wrote:
Im ripping out a storage heating sytem, they are not economically
viable, anything below zero in winter and the heaters cant cope, the
heaters are not in every room, you will always be backing it up with
3kw peak heaters.
The amount you would save with central heating and a modern condensing
boiler would pay for a loan spead over 7 years to pay for the central
heating installation.
Plus you would have a system that worked with controllable
temperature, you can demand heat where and when you want it.

Actually I dont have any problems with my economy 7. Its cheaper than the
gas ( mains) central heating I had in a previous house. I rarely have to
back it up.

All I want is one extra heater in one room. Economy 7 is not the state of
art any more as you say and consequently getting anything to add on is
proving difficult.

I guess at this rate I'll be getting a halogen heater and letting that do
the job.

All I want is one extra heater in one room.

Have a look around www.dealec.co.uk

Storage Heaters...
o Creda
o Dimplex
o Simple Manual, Automatic, Electronic, Programmable

Direct Heaters...
o Halogen, Radiator, oddball French system
o Wall fan heaters, overdoor heaters

Heating controls section...
o "Prefect" PIR/Setback/Comfort thermostat is on there
o Identical to the Dimplex branded version I notice
o Can be found new on Ebay for £12-18 if lucky

At least useful as a catalog to see what is on offer.
No connection with the company.


If you have not already done so...
o Check your insulation levels if cavity wall & in the loft
o Full grants are available with means testing
o Partial grants exist without any means testing
o Electricity supplier may have an discount on

If you go for a simpler conventional direct heater or such, look at
Argos as you can at least "see how it looks" & return it if not liked.
--
DB.

Here is a storage sizing calculator...
http://www.dimplex.co.uk/consumer/pdf/HDS_tables.pdf

Not easy to find on their website.
Creda have a near identical one somewhere.
--
DB.