Does anybody know anything about Dishwashers?

My Neff S5555 isn't cleaning things properly in the top tray. The arms
aren't blocked and spin freely by hand; the water fill and heating are OK.

During a wash the top arm seems to be in the same position so I doubt
that water is reaching it (but the feed pipe from the pump is clear).
- Is there a valve that controls water flow to the top basket? If so,
how do I get to it?

- Are there any parts or assembly drawings available anywhere?

Dave

On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 21:35:59 +0000, NoSpam
wrote:

Does anybody know anything about Dishwashers?

My Neff S5555 isn't cleaning things properly in the top tray. The arms
aren't blocked and spin freely by hand; the water fill and heating are OK.

What's the problem? Is it down to gritty residues left in glasses? If
so it could be a rinsing (rather than top basket) problem.

During a wash the top arm seems to be in the same position so I doubt
that water is reaching it (but the feed pipe from the pump is clear).
- Is there a valve that controls water flow to the top basket?

Not in any machine I've come across. The only problems have arisen
from it being obstructed by an item poking down through the basket
from above.

If so,
how do I get to it?

- Are there any parts or assembly drawings available anywhere?

This, I don't know.

DG

"NoSpam" wrote in message
...
Does anybody know anything about Dishwashers?

My Neff S5555 isn't cleaning things properly in the top tray. The arms
aren't blocked and spin freely by hand; the water fill and heating are OK.

During a wash the top arm seems to be in the same position so I doubt that
water is reaching it (but the feed pipe from the pump is clear).
- Is there a valve that controls water flow to the top basket? If so, how
do I get to it?

- Are there any parts or assembly drawings available anywhere?

Dave

My old Zanussi used to do this. The top spray arm would fail to rotate yet
there seemed to be plenty of water coming out of the jets in it. Sometimes
it would get clogged with something in one of the holes on the spray arm and
this seemed to be enough to stop it rotating. See if you can unscrew it
from its mounting and check if a small piece of plastic or something has got
inside.

Chris

NoSpam wrote:

Does anybody know anything about Dishwashers?

My Neff S5555 isn't cleaning things properly in the top tray. The arms
aren't blocked and spin freely by hand; the water fill and heating are OK.

During a wash the top arm seems to be in the same position so I doubt
that water is reaching it (but the feed pipe from the pump is clear).
- Is there a valve that controls water flow to the top basket? If so,
how do I get to it?

- Are there any parts or assembly drawings available anywhere?

Dave

My Bosch developed a habit of doing this with the top spray arm. Cleaning
everything made no difference.

In the end, I defeated the door interlock, and ran it with the door ajar for
a moment and got wet. However, the problem revealed itself:

The top arm was a sloppy fit on the axle. Plenty of water was being pumped
to the arm, but half of it came out of the axle "bearing", which was fine
in that it washed the lower basket. The upper arm jets did produce a decent
spray, but at reduced pressure, and it seemed that the angled jets on the
ends that are supposed to produce jets with a lateral component to spin the
arms, well, weren't. Water came out, but nearly vertically - not enough
horizontal component.

So, I drilled two 3mm holes in the side of the arm near both ends of the
upper arm and the problem is solved.

So, I reckon it was a design fault, but easily solved...

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
NoSpam wrote:

Does anybody know anything about Dishwashers?

My Neff S5555 isn't cleaning things properly in the top tray. The arms
aren't blocked and spin freely by hand; the water fill and heating are OK.

During a wash the top arm seems to be in the same position so I doubt
that water is reaching it (but the feed pipe from the pump is clear).
- Is there a valve that controls water flow to the top basket? If so,
how do I get to it?

- Are there any parts or assembly drawings available anywhere?

Dave

My Bosch developed a habit of doing this with the top spray arm. Cleaning
everything made no difference.

In the end, I defeated the door interlock, and ran it with the door ajar for
a moment and got wet. However, the problem revealed itself:

The top arm was a sloppy fit on the axle. Plenty of water was being pumped
to the arm, but half of it came out of the axle "bearing", which was fine
in that it washed the lower basket. The upper arm jets did produce a decent
spray, but at reduced pressure, and it seemed that the angled jets on the
ends that are supposed to produce jets with a lateral component to spin the
arms, well, weren't. Water came out, but nearly vertically - not enough
horizontal component.

So, I drilled two 3mm holes in the side of the arm near both ends of the
upper arm and the problem is solved.

So, I reckon it was a design fault, but easily solved...

Cheers

Tim

Thanks Tim, that was it and the same solution worked!

I found a way of avoiding getting too wet - remove the bottom arm and
put an inverted bowl over the pump outlet.

Now to mop the kitchen and change into dry clothes!

Dave

Chris wrote:
"NoSpam" wrote in message
...
Does anybody know anything about Dishwashers?

My Neff S5555 isn't cleaning things properly in the top tray. The arms
aren't blocked and spin freely by hand; the water fill and heating are OK.

During a wash the top arm seems to be in the same position so I doubt that
water is reaching it (but the feed pipe from the pump is clear).
- Is there a valve that controls water flow to the top basket? If so, how
do I get to it?

- Are there any parts or assembly drawings available anywhere?

Dave

My old Zanussi used to do this. The top spray arm would fail to rotate yet
there seemed to be plenty of water coming out of the jets in it. Sometimes
it would get clogged with something in one of the holes on the spray arm and
this seemed to be enough to stop it rotating. See if you can unscrew it
from its mounting and check if a small piece of plastic or something has got
inside.

Chris



Nothing stuck, but a couple of new "turbo boost" holes in the sides of
the arm have fixed it. Thanks.

Dave

Derek Geldard wrote:
On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 21:35:59 +0000, NoSpam
wrote:

Does anybody know anything about Dishwashers?

My Neff S5555 isn't cleaning things properly in the top tray. The arms
aren't blocked and spin freely by hand; the water fill and heating are OK.

What's the problem? Is it down to gritty residues left in glasses? If
so it could be a rinsing (rather than top basket) problem.

During a wash the top arm seems to be in the same position so I doubt
that water is reaching it (but the feed pipe from the pump is clear).
- Is there a valve that controls water flow to the top basket?

Not in any machine I've come across. The only problems have arisen
from it being obstructed by an item poking down through the basket
from above.

If so,
how do I get to it?

- Are there any parts or assembly drawings available anywhere?

This, I don't know.

DG


Problem: grit and small bits of gunge stuck to lots of things in top
basket (not everything).
Having run it with the door open it seems that there is a diverter valve
(with about a 5 second top/bottom cycle) but that it was working OK.
Problem looks like just wear on top arm pivot, a couple of new "boost"
holes in the side of the arm have fixed it.

Dave

NoSpam wrote:
Does anybody know anything about Dishwashers?

My Neff S5555 isn't cleaning things properly in the top tray. The arms
aren't blocked and spin freely by hand; the water fill and heating are OK.

During a wash the top arm seems to be in the same position so I doubt
that water is reaching it (but the feed pipe from the pump is clear).
- Is there a valve that controls water flow to the top basket? If so,
how do I get to it?

- Are there any parts or assembly drawings available anywhere?

Dave

It might be worth your while getting hold of a copy of the Hayne's
'Dishwasher Repair Manual' - it covers absolutely everything to do with
them including how they work, common faults, fixing etc. The lot.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dishwasher-Manual-Haynes-Home-Garden/dp/1859603297/sr=8-1/qid=1168347535/ref=sr_1_1/203-3669284-7507943?ie=UTF8&s=books

Mathew

Mathew Newton wrote:
NoSpam wrote:
Does anybody know anything about Dishwashers?

My Neff S5555 isn't cleaning things properly in the top tray. The arms
aren't blocked and spin freely by hand; the water fill and heating are OK.

During a wash the top arm seems to be in the same position so I doubt
that water is reaching it (but the feed pipe from the pump is clear).
- Is there a valve that controls water flow to the top basket? If so,
how do I get to it?

- Are there any parts or assembly drawings available anywhere?

Dave

It might be worth your while getting hold of a copy of the Hayne's
'Dishwasher Repair Manual' - it covers absolutely everything to do with
them including how they work, common faults, fixing etc. The lot.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dishwasher-Manual-Haynes-Home-Garden/dp/1859603297/sr=8-1/qid=1168347535/ref=sr_1_1/203-3669284-7507943?ie=UTF8&s=books

Mathew


Great, thanks!

Dave

NoSpam wrote:


Thanks Tim, that was it and the same solution worked!

I found a way of avoiding getting too wet - remove the bottom arm and
put an inverted bowl over the pump outlet.

Now to mop the kitchen and change into dry clothes!

Dave

You work fast! Would it be a good time to to mention that when I defeated
the interlock on the Bosch, I had to disassemble the door to reset it
(warning to other Bosch owners who are thinking of trying this).

Glad it worked - I wonder why the angled jets weren't made with more of an
angle to start with... Mine wore out after about 2 years...

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
NoSpam wrote:

Thanks Tim, that was it and the same solution worked!

I found a way of avoiding getting too wet - remove the bottom arm and
put an inverted bowl over the pump outlet.

Now to mop the kitchen and change into dry clothes!

Dave

You work fast! Would it be a good time to to mention that when I defeated
the interlock on the Bosch, I had to disassemble the door to reset it
(warning to other Bosch owners who are thinking of trying this).

Glad it worked - I wonder why the angled jets weren't made with more of an
angle to start with... Mine wore out after about 2 years...

Cheers

Tim
I think that in line with most products these days, the designers as
such are poorly paid, and know naff all about it and care less.

Products are designed to sell, not to work. At least not beyond the
warranty period.

Apart from Miele, that is at best 18 months or 2 years.

There is no reason that decent bearings, proper design of seals etc and
well made motors should not be able to give a 10 year plus service life.

But no one is interested in paying for it, it seems.

Tim S wrote:
NoSpam wrote:

Thanks Tim, that was it and the same solution worked!

I found a way of avoiding getting too wet - remove the bottom arm and
put an inverted bowl over the pump outlet.

Now to mop the kitchen and change into dry clothes!

Dave

You work fast! Would it be a good time to to mention that when I defeated
the interlock on the Bosch, I had to disassemble the door to reset it
(warning to other Bosch owners who are thinking of trying this).

Glad it worked - I wonder why the angled jets weren't made with more of an
angle to start with... Mine wore out after about 2 years...

Cheers

Tim

Fast but wet!
I got the door switch back into the off (=door open) position by hooking
a loop of wire behind it and pulling.

Dave

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


I think that in line with most products these days, the designers as
such are poorly paid, and know naff all about it and care less.

Products are designed to sell, not to work. At least not beyond the
warranty period.

Apart from Miele, that is at best 18 months or 2 years.

There is no reason that decent bearings, proper design of seals etc and
well made motors should not be able to give a 10 year plus service life.

But no one is interested in paying for it, it seems.

That does seem to be par for the course these days. I do have a Miele
washing machine and hoover and both exceeded my expectations, which is
saying a lot. Quite pleasant to see some attention to detail for a change.
But, heck, does it cost. Having said that, both products will probably see
out 2-3 replacements of cheaper version products, so it all costs the same
in the end, and the bonus is the device does it's job better than the
cheaper competitors, not to mention the saving to the environment.

I haven't found Bosch Logixx (high end of their range) bad - I have a tumble
dryer and a dishwasher from that series, and the only jip I've had is the
dishwasher spray arm problem plus the dishwasher blew a water valve coil
early on, which was dealt with under warranty without issue.

Talking of which, slashdot's been carrying various articles about Gigabyte
boasting about using solid capacitors on some of their mobos for longevity.
Apparantly, the people were having grief with electrolytics blowing after
3-4 years - which seemed strange as I've had 20 year old hot running
electronics (amplifiers and TVs for example) which managed to not exhibit
that problem. More likely some berk bought a load of cheap crap caps for
some production runs and got the electrolytics a bad name, so maketing
stepped in and made a "feature" of the whole debacle.

Cheers

Tim

NoSpam wrote:


Fast but wet!

Heh. Hope you added powder and cleaned the kitchen - bonus points from the
missus(!)

I got the door switch back into the off (=door open) position by hooking
a loop of wire behind it and pulling.

Yeah, I tried a similar approach, but the Bosch's catch is a strong sod when
latched and there was no moving it without getting at the gubbins. Quite
interesting to see how much stuff is packed inside the door

Cheers

Tim

On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 23:16:14 UTC, Tim S wrote:

Talking of which, slashdot's been carrying various articles about Gigabyte
boasting about using solid capacitors on some of their mobos for longevity.
Apparantly, the people were having grief with electrolytics blowing after
3-4 years - which seemed strange as I've had 20 year old hot running
electronics (amplifiers and TVs for example) which managed to not exhibit
that problem. More likely some berk bought a load of cheap crap caps for
some production runs and got the electrolytics a bad name, so maketing
stepped in and made a "feature" of the whole debacle.

There was a well known capacitor fiasco a few years ago, wheer (AFAIR)
there was some faulty 'cloning' of a manufacturer's products. The faulty
items went into *many* motherboards. They may or may not have been
electrolytic, but 'faulty caps' is probably a good bit of propaganda
now.
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article ,
"Bob Eager" writes:
On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 23:16:14 UTC, Tim S wrote:

Talking of which, slashdot's been carrying various articles about Gigabyte
boasting about using solid capacitors on some of their mobos for longevity.
Apparantly, the people were having grief with electrolytics blowing after
3-4 years - which seemed strange as I've had 20 year old hot running
electronics (amplifiers and TVs for example) which managed to not exhibit
that problem. More likely some berk bought a load of cheap crap caps for
some production runs and got the electrolytics a bad name, so maketing
stepped in and made a "feature" of the whole debacle.

There was a well known capacitor fiasco a few years ago, wheer (AFAIR)
there was some faulty 'cloning' of a manufacturer's products. The faulty
items went into *many* motherboards. They may or may not have been
electrolytic, but 'faulty caps' is probably a good bit of propaganda
now.

They were electrolytics. A Chinese company stole the formula for
the electrolite from a Taiwanise manufacturer, and churned out
millions of the things. These were bought by many motherboard
manufacturers. However, the formula stolen was one which turned
out not to work and was not used by the Taiwanise manufacturer.

The manufacturers who bought the faulty electrolytics have been
faced with repairing or replacing motherboards. Dell were in
our office on almost a weekly basis replacing motherboards at
a previous employer.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:21:58 UTC, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

They were electrolytics. A Chinese company stole the formula for
the electrolite from a Taiwanise manufacturer, and churned out
millions of the things. These were bought by many motherboard
manufacturers. However, the formula stolen was one which turned
out not to work and was not used by the Taiwanise manufacturer.

That's it...all coming back to me now...interesting to see how it's been
turned into a marketing opportunity!

The manufacturers who bought the faulty electrolytics have been
faced with repairing or replacing motherboards. Dell were in
our office on almost a weekly basis replacing motherboards at
a previous employer.

The only machine I had fail was the Dell in my office at work. We have
so many Dells that we kept a stock of motherboards, and it was changed
within an hour of me going in and finding a dead machine.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Tim S wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


I think that in line with most products these days, the designers as
such are poorly paid, and know naff all about it and care less.

Products are designed to sell, not to work. At least not beyond the
warranty period.

Apart from Miele, that is at best 18 months or 2 years.

There is no reason that decent bearings, proper design of seals etc and
well made motors should not be able to give a 10 year plus service life.

But no one is interested in paying for it, it seems.

That does seem to be par for the course these days. I do have a Miele
washing machine and hoover and both exceeded my expectations, which is
saying a lot. Quite pleasant to see some attention to detail for a change.
But, heck, does it cost. Having said that, both products will probably see
out 2-3 replacements of cheaper version products, so it all costs the same
in the end, and the bonus is the device does it's job better than the
cheaper competitors, not to mention the saving to the environment.

I haven't found Bosch Logixx (high end of their range) bad - I have a tumble
dryer and a dishwasher from that series, and the only jip I've had is the
dishwasher spray arm problem plus the dishwasher blew a water valve coil
early on, which was dealt with under warranty without issue.

Talking of which, slashdot's been carrying various articles about Gigabyte
boasting about using solid capacitors on some of their mobos for longevity.
Apparantly, the people were having grief with electrolytics blowing after
3-4 years - which seemed strange as I've had 20 year old hot running
electronics (amplifiers and TVs for example) which managed to not exhibit
that problem. More likely some berk bought a load of cheap crap caps for
some production runs and got the electrolytics a bad name, so maketing
stepped in and made a "feature" of the whole debacle.


Precisely.

When we designed mil spec equipment, we used very underatted components
so the whole kit would work at 100C or more..and tantalum capacitors,
which could also stand the heat. They had MTBF's up in the 10-20 year mark.

They did cost pounds rather than pence tho.

I've been investigating part for a gearbox too..do you want nylon, glass
fiber or kevlar belts sir? do you want alloy, nylon or polycarbonate
pulleys sir? Do you want precision ground stainless steel fully sealed
ball races? Or cheap corrosive un shielded one's sir?

Your shafts..precision ground stainless hard steel? Or a bit of mild
steel that will bend?

Your motor..the cheap one with the bent bronze brushes and the ferrite
magnets, or the one with massive brushes, cobalt magnets and proper
springs that costs ten times as much?

There are plenty of 50 year old plus aircraft still flying..and making
money too.

How come a piece of domestic equipment is trash in 18 months?



Cheers

Tim

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I've been investigating part for a gearbox too..do you want nylon,
glass
fiber or kevlar belts sir? do you want alloy, nylon or polycarbonate
pulleys sir? Do you want precision ground stainless steel fully sealed
ball races? Or cheap corrosive un shielded one's sir?

Your shafts..precision ground stainless hard steel? Or a bit of mild
steel that will bend?

Your motor..the cheap one with the bent bronze brushes and the ferrite
magnets, or the one with massive brushes, cobalt magnets and proper
springs that costs ten times as much?

There are plenty of 50 year old plus aircraft still flying..and making
money too.

How come a piece of domestic equipment is trash in 18 months?

You've just explained it - pick just one way to save cost so you can
undercut the opposition by a few quid. Add competition. Repeat until
everyone turns out junk.


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